Frustrated With Uk Tourist Visa Refusal

[dave1971]

Hi there,

Please forgive the long message but any constructive advice would be very gratefully received :-)

Last week my Thai girlfriend's UK tourist visa application was refused. This is now the 2nd refusal and we are frustrated, upset, distressed and not to mention confused.

The history is this:

I met my girlfriend whilst I was travelling around the world in April 2007, we got on fantastically and I returned to see her in July 2007. I saw her later in December/January 2007 for New Year's, February 2008 and recently in June 2008 (always in Thailand). So in total I've known her for nearly a year and a half. We decided it would be good if she could visit the UK to meet my friends, parents, etc... and see what life is like in London.

In hindsight, it was not entirely surprising our 1st application was refused - I never imagined this was such a minefield. We provided good evidence that I could support her financially (very healthy bank accounts) and no mortgage, her bank statements, letters from me, around 200 pages of MSN chat printouts but not enough evidence to support the fact that she would return after this visit. Also we stated she would visit for 1 month but did enclose an itinerary. The application was refused on the infamous sections - [iv] of paragraph 41 of HC395.

Armed with an immigration lawyer we made our second application. This time, the application seemed much more slick. Again, bank statements from me to show money is not a problem at all, no mortgage, proof my house has 3 bedrooms, her bank statements, a letter from her employer (she is a tour guide for a famous guesthouse) saying she is approved for holiday and her job is still there when she gets back, verification of her salary, certified copies of my passport showing my entry/exit to Thailand on all the dates I was there, a letter from me describing our relationship, as well as short and long term goals and our complete understanding that marriage is not legal under a tourist visa and we have no intention of marriage now. We also supplied a letter from our lawyer attempting to address each of the 4 points of 1st refusal. There were also letters from me since we first met, credit card bills highlighting I was staying/paying in hotels in the locations we met (plus some hotel bills), around 20 photos of us together in these places and the last 4 months of itemised phone bills showing me texting her at least once/day. In total a near 100 page application. We also said that if needed we can supply over 300 pages of MSN chat and letters between her and I since we first met. Again, we applied for a 6 month visa but for only a 3 week visit.

The refusal came in last week and she was not even asked to come in for an interview. It goes like this "I note that you recently made an unsuccessful application for an entry clearance and one of the reasons for the refusal was the lack of documentation demonstrating that you and your sponsor are in a subsisting relationship. I note you have provided holiday photos and itemised phone records from your boyfriend with your current application. However, based on the evidence before, I am not satisfied that any correspondence or contact inititiated by your sponsor is reciprocated. In short, evidence of contact provided with your application is seemingly only from your sponsor..... Given this, I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor for a limited period and that you intend to leave the UK at the end of the visit."

Our dilemna is this, do we re-apply, is it a case of 3rd time lucky (do we just need to additionally give the letters and emails she sent me or is there something written between the lines of the ECO's refusal) or, are we now seriously black-marked and any application will be scrutinised for the most slightest excuse for refusal? Do we write to the ECM asking for re-consideration, given the fact we did say we could provide the letters they questioned. I am also seeing my local MP to raise the issue with her and hopefully get a letter of support.

I have posted back to her the 50 or so letters/cards she sent to me in the UK. I have 30 or so emails she sent me and maybe now 500-600 pages of MSN chat.

If you have got to the end, then thank you for reading and I hope you can sympathise with us - I have read there are many of you out there like us and all we need is just 1 chance to prove ourselves. If you have any advice I would really like to hear it.

Thanks, Dave

[issanpaul]

PM Scouser or contact his company Davies Khan there are sponsers on this forum,There are very good and not exspensive,i have had dealings with them before with my company in UK highly reccomended.

[funfun]

PM Scouser or contact his company Davies Khan there are sponsers on this forum,There are very good and not exspensive,i have had dealings with them before with my company in UK highly reccomended.

agree 100%, ive got a bar and not 1 customer has failed with him,

tel;0151 284 7314

mobile 07921 359084

email [email protected]

www.davieskhan.co.uk

Good luck and dont worry,

chris

[the scouser]

I sympathise with your plight, Dave.

I have a noted a recent hardening of the embassy's attitude to visit visa applications and, of course, there's no statutory right of appeal unless it's for a family visit. The embassy appears to have independently raised the evidential burden from the balance of probabilities to beyond reasonable doubt, the latter being applicable in criminal matters.

The two options that remain open to you are to either simply re-apply, but risk another refusal, or to take the matter to judicial review which can take a relatively long time to be decided. If you choose to go the judicial review route, you will need to instruct a solicitor who in turn will probably instruct a barrister, so the process can be costly without any guarantee of being awarded costs.

Scouse.

[Baboonboy22]

Hi Dave,

I'm really sorry to hear about all the troubles you've had.

I am no way near as experienced with all this as the scouser and some of the others on this forum, but my fiancee and I have had 2 successfull visit visas in the past.

It looks like the only thing you have done differently from us is include evidence of the relationship from her side.

Using our visa as an example, we gave samples of msn conversations (which you can setup automatically to keep a history of your chat) which show the dates of the chat spanning the time we have known each other. Which will show a 2-way convo. so that should be her side covered (unless they want to see the 1st line of chat coming from her). I also did the same for emails.. spanning over the time we've know each other. And she included ones that I had sent to her.

My GF also included some "heated" emails at the start of the relationship (which I'm sure everyone goes through) just to show that it is a normal relationship with ups and downs.

We gave photos of us together in various places. Phone bills from the both of us (and if you use a phonecard, attach an old one to show the number that you dial).

The one thing that people did warn me about when I was first looking into getting the visa for my gf, is remember it is just a visit, a holiday, when I go to see her it is only for a fortnight, a normal length of time for a holiday. So you should be looking at the same for her. In my opinion I would only say she will be here for a couple of weeks (and unless she has a very generous boss, not many employers would give an employee a whole month holiday, well mine certainly wouldn't)

At the end of the day you have 3 options, fight their decision (which sounds like it will be a lengthy process not to mention expensive), forget the whole idea of her coming here (which I'm sure is not what you want to do) or just apply again and hope for the best.

We only had to wait a day, 2 at the most for them to grant her visa. Which to me is a good indication that the paperwork was strong, so I can just advise you from my experience.. oooh.. also.. in the letter from her employer they wrote about the agreed length of a 2 week maximum stay.

Well I sincerely hope all that was of some help.

Good luck mate

[richm7]

The U.K. visa process stinks. I wanted to get a visa for my wife and stupidly misunderstood the "6months" to mean "multiple entry, longest stay six months" which it in fact is BUT it's only valid for six months, for nearly 5000 baht. If you want one for longer it costs some 15k baht! On top of that they want a one inch thick wad of paperwork with all the ins and outs of my personal business. Cheeky bastards. I am a bloody Brit too, that's the aggravating part. I walked out when I found out. I remembered why I left over 20 years ago and how much of a big brother place it has become so what is there to show her there? Spy cameras everywhere, speed cameras everywhere, a bloody immigrant checking my passport on entry, Eastern block tea leaves everywhere, a tax on farts and three and a half quid for a pint. Everything gasp inducingly expensive and bloody cold too.

Contrast that with the US Embassy. 4500 baht, a two minute chat followed by a 10 year B1/B2 visa for her (I have a Green Card). No problem. All those folks complaining about Thai immigration want to try dealing with the U.K. Perhaps you'll not complain quite so much then.

[mariner29]

Why not re-apply again and include the 50 or so cards etc which proves beyond doubt your relationship is subsisting. And if you used an Immigration Adviser why did he not insert these with the application ?

[issanpaul]

I sympathise with your plight, Dave.

I have a noted a recent hardening of the embassy's attitude to visit visa applications and, of course, there's no statutory right of appeal unless it's for a family visit. The embassy appears to have independently raised the evidential burden from the balance of probabilities to beyond reasonable doubt, the latter being applicable in criminal matters.

The two options that remain open to you are to either simply re-apply, but risk another refusal, or to take the matter to judicial review which can take a relatively long time to be decided. If you choose to go the judicial review route, you will need to instruct a solicitor who in turn will probably instruct a barrister, so the process can be costly without any guarantee of being awarded costs.

Scouse.

scouse is keeping his cards close to his chest and why not? but i stongley recomend contacting him,he a nice chap.(although does not have scouse accent thank god )

[waffleuk]

My girlfriend has too just been refused a visit visa, So i fully sympathise with your situation Dave.

To make things even more interesting the VFS/Embassy have misplaced my girlfriends passport.

It never rains, it pours.

I really hope everything works our for you and your girl.

John

[dave1971]

PM Scouser or contact his company Davies Khan there are sponsers on this forum,There are very good and not exspensive,i have had dealings with them before with my company in UK highly reccomended.

Hi Issanpaul. I spoke to Scouser and he certainly seems to be a sage on such matters. Thanks for the advice. Dave

[dave1971]

Why not re-apply again and include the 50 or so cards etc which proves beyond doubt your relationship is subsisting. And if you used an Immigration Adviser why did he not insert these with the application ?

I did speak to the lawyer and others on this and to be fair, this is the first time the reciprocation of communication has been used. It is looking like a re-application is the way forwards but as you can guess we're still smarting from this blow

[farangmal]

The U.K. visa process stinks. I wanted to get a visa for my wife and stupidly misunderstood the "6months" to mean "multiple entry, longest stay six months" which it in fact is BUT it's only valid for six months, for nearly 5000 baht. If you want one for longer it costs some 15k baht! On top of that they want a one inch thick wad of paperwork with all the ins and outs of my personal business. Cheeky bastards. I am a bloody Brit too, that's the aggravating part. I walked out when I found out. I remembered why I left over 20 years ago and how much of a big brother place it has become so what is there to show her there? Spy cameras everywhere, speed cameras everywhere, a bloody immigrant checking my passport on entry, Eastern block tea leaves everywhere, a tax on farts and three and a half quid for a pint. Everything gasp inducingly expensive and bloody cold too.

Contrast that with the US Embassy. 4500 baht, a two minute chat followed by a 10 year B1/B2 visa for her (I have a Green Card). No problem. All those folks complaining about Thai immigration want to try dealing with the U.K. Perhaps you'll not complain quite so much then.

My/our experience with UK immigration has been positive.

My then Thai Girlfriend got a Marriage visa from the Bangkok Embassy without even an interview. She just went for a TB check then picked up Her passport with visa.

Three Months on in the UK She got Her 2 year FLR. Monday She got Her permanent residence very easily indeed.

But we seemed to be the only ones having success in the Public Enquiery Office. There was a Chinese Woman in tears because they refused Her a settlement visa even though She had been on a business visa for 14 years. Apparently She had gone Home for two long periods due to Family illness and this broke the rules.

It is very Big Brotherish as you say. They just say no then pull the blinds down. Nothing anybody can do.

Edited August 6, 2008 by farangmal

[dave1971]

The U.K. visa process stinks. I wanted to get a visa for my wife and stupidly misunderstood the "6months" to mean "multiple entry, longest stay six months" which it in fact is BUT it's only valid for six months, for nearly 5000 baht. If you want one for longer it costs some 15k baht! On top of that they want a one inch thick wad of paperwork with all the ins and outs of my personal business. Cheeky bastards. I am a bloody Brit too, that's the aggravating part. I walked out when I found out. I remembered why I left over 20 years ago and how much of a big brother place it has become so what is there to show her there? Spy cameras everywhere, speed cameras everywhere, a bloody immigrant checking my passport on entry, Eastern block tea leaves everywhere, a tax on farts and three and a half quid for a pint. Everything gasp inducingly expensive and bloody cold too.

Contrast that with the US Embassy. 4500 baht, a two minute chat followed by a 10 year B1/B2 visa for her (I have a Green Card). No problem. All those folks complaining about Thai immigration want to try dealing with the U.K. Perhaps you'll not complain quite so much then.

This whole UK visa experience is making me feel disenchanted with my own country. It makes you think "How does it make someone not from the UK feel?"

[issanpaul]

The U.K. visa process stinks. I wanted to get a visa for my wife and stupidly misunderstood the "6months" to mean "multiple entry, longest stay six months" which it in fact is BUT it's only valid for six months, for nearly 5000 baht. If you want one for longer it costs some 15k baht! On top of that they want a one inch thick wad of paperwork with all the ins and outs of my personal business. Cheeky bastards. I am a bloody Brit too, that's the aggravating part. I walked out when I found out. I remembered why I left over 20 years ago and how much of a big brother place it has become so what is there to show her there? Spy cameras everywhere, speed cameras everywhere, a bloody immigrant checking my passport on entry, Eastern block tea leaves everywhere, a tax on farts and three and a half quid for a pint. Everything gasp inducingly expensive and bloody cold too.

Contrast that with the US Embassy. 4500 baht, a two minute chat followed by a 10 year B1/B2 visa for her (I have a Green Card). No problem. All those folks complaining about Thai immigration want to try dealing with the U.K. Perhaps you'll not complain quite so much then.

This whole UK visa experience is making me feel disenchanted with my own country. It makes you think "How does it make someone not from the UK feel?"

I second that Dave

[farangmal]

The U.K. visa process stinks. I wanted to get a visa for my wife and stupidly misunderstood the "6months" to mean "multiple entry, longest stay six months" which it in fact is BUT it's only valid for six months, for nearly 5000 baht. If you want one for longer it costs some 15k baht! On top of that they want a one inch thick wad of paperwork with all the ins and outs of my personal business. Cheeky bastards. I am a bloody Brit too, that's the aggravating part. I walked out when I found out. I remembered why I left over 20 years ago and how much of a big brother place it has become so what is there to show her there? Spy cameras everywhere, speed cameras everywhere, a bloody immigrant checking my passport on entry, Eastern block tea leaves everywhere, a tax on farts and three and a half quid for a pint. Everything gasp inducingly expensive and bloody cold too.

Contrast that with the US Embassy. 4500 baht, a two minute chat followed by a 10 year B1/B2 visa for her (I have a Green Card). No problem. All those folks complaining about Thai immigration want to try dealing with the U.K. Perhaps you'll not complain quite so much then.

This whole UK visa experience is making me feel disenchanted with my own country. It makes you think "How does it make someone not from the UK feel?"

But if you think about it, yes it's harder to get in than say Thailand but once they are in and on the 2 year FLR they can work. No work permit required. Not the same as Thailand.

After 2 years and once they get ILR residence they if needed can claim benefits the same as a British person can. Not the same as Thailand.

After three years they can be naturalised and get a British passport. Not the same as Thailand.

I'm Married to a Thai but can NEVER be accepted and treated fairly in Thailand. My Wife gets treated equally and fairly here. No double pricing. No Land owning restrictions and NO VISA RUNS EVERY 90 DAYS.

You tell me...what's better?

[dave1971]

The U.K. visa process stinks. I wanted to get a visa for my wife and stupidly misunderstood the "6months" to mean "multiple entry, longest stay six months" which it in fact is BUT it's only valid for six months, for nearly 5000 baht. If you want one for longer it costs some 15k baht! On top of that they want a one inch thick wad of paperwork with all the ins and outs of my personal business. Cheeky bastards. I am a bloody Brit too, that's the aggravating part. I walked out when I found out. I remembered why I left over 20 years ago and how much of a big brother place it has become so what is there to show her there? Spy cameras everywhere, speed cameras everywhere, a bloody immigrant checking my passport on entry, Eastern block tea leaves everywhere, a tax on farts and three and a half quid for a pint. Everything gasp inducingly expensive and bloody cold too.

Contrast that with the US Embassy. 4500 baht, a two minute chat followed by a 10 year B1/B2 visa for her (I have a Green Card). No problem. All those folks complaining about Thai immigration want to try dealing with the U.K. Perhaps you'll not complain quite so much then.

This whole UK visa experience is making me feel disenchanted with my own country. It makes you think "How does it make someone not from the UK feel?"

But if you think about it, yes it's harder to get in than say Thailand but once they are in and on the 2 year FLR they can work. No work permit required. Not the same as Thailand.

After 2 years and once they get ILR residence they if needed can claim benefits the same as a British person can. Not the same as Thailand.

After three years they can be naturalised and get a British passport. Not the same as Thailand.

I'm Married to a Thai but can NEVER be accepted and treated fairly in Thailand. My Wife gets treated equally and fairly here. No double pricing. No Land owning restrictions and NO VISA RUNS EVERY 90 DAYS.

You tell me...what's better?

A very good point and I do not claim to know the tip of the iceberg of the inequalities of a foreigner living in Thailand. I think what I'm trying to say is, that to even start on the path of just visiting the UK is vague and to say the least, subjective. Of course, the UK visa regulations are there for a reason but the measures and criteria by which successful tourist visas are granted seem inconsistent for a country we think of as being fair

[farangmal]

Hi there,

Please forgive the long message but any constructive advice would be very gratefully received :-)

Last week my Thai girlfriend's UK tourist visa application was refused. This is now the 2nd refusal and we are frustrated, upset, distressed and not to mention confused.

The history is this:

I met my girlfriend whilst I was travelling around the world in April 2007, we got on fantastically and I returned to see her in July 2007. I saw her later in December/January 2007 for New Year's, February 2008 and recently in June 2008 (always in Thailand). So in total I've known her for nearly a year and a half. We decided it would be good if she could visit the UK to meet my friends, parents, etc... and see what life is like in London.

In hindsight, it was not entirely surprising our 1st application was refused - I never imagined this was such a minefield. We provided good evidence that I could support her financially (very healthy bank accounts) and no mortgage, her bank statements, letters from me, around 200 pages of MSN chat printouts but not enough evidence to support the fact that she would return after this visit. Also we stated she would visit for 1 month but did enclose an itinerary. The application was refused on the infamous sections - [iv] of paragraph 41 of HC395.

Armed with an immigration lawyer we made our second application. This time, the application seemed much more slick. Again, bank statements from me to show money is not a problem at all, no mortgage, proof my house has 3 bedrooms, her bank statements, a letter from her employer (she is a tour guide for a famous guesthouse) saying she is approved for holiday and her job is still there when she gets back, verification of her salary, certified copies of my passport showing my entry/exit to Thailand on all the dates I was there, a letter from me describing our relationship, as well as short and long term goals and our complete understanding that marriage is not legal under a tourist visa and we have no intention of marriage now. We also supplied a letter from our lawyer attempting to address each of the 4 points of 1st refusal. There were also letters from me since we first met, credit card bills highlighting I was staying/paying in hotels in the locations we met (plus some hotel bills), around 20 photos of us together in these places and the last 4 months of itemised phone bills showing me texting her at least once/day. In total a near 100 page application. We also said that if needed we can supply over 300 pages of MSN chat and letters between her and I since we first met. Again, we applied for a 6 month visa but for only a 3 week visit.

The refusal came in last week and she was not even asked to come in for an interview. It goes like this "I note that you recently made an unsuccessful application for an entry clearance and one of the reasons for the refusal was the lack of documentation demonstrating that you and your sponsor are in a subsisting relationship. I note you have provided holiday photos and itemised phone records from your boyfriend with your current application. However, based on the evidence before, I am not satisfied that any correspondence or contact inititiated by your sponsor is reciprocated. In short, evidence of contact provided with your application is seemingly only from your sponsor..... Given this, I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor for a limited period and that you intend to leave the UK at the end of the visit."

Our dilemna is this, do we re-apply, is it a case of 3rd time lucky (do we just need to additionally give the letters and emails she sent me or is there something written between the lines of the ECO's refusal) or, are we now seriously black-marked and any application will be scrutinised for the most slightest excuse for refusal? Do we write to the ECM asking for re-consideration, given the fact we did say we could provide the letters they questioned. I am also seeing my local MP to raise the issue with her and hopefully get a letter of support.

I have posted back to her the 50 or so letters/cards she sent to me in the UK. I have 30 or so emails she sent me and maybe now 500-600 pages of MSN chat.

If you have got to the end, then thank you for reading and I hope you can sympathise with us - I have read there are many of you out there like us and all we need is just 1 chance to prove ourselves. If you have any advice I would really like to hear it.

Thanks, Dave

Why not apply for a settlement visa for Her, rather than a tourist? I have heard it's sometimes easier as YOU ARE THE SPONSOR.

And if She does go back then it's no problem. She will probably get another.

It's all about the proof of a real relationship. Get as much documents together as you can.

[farangmal]

The U.K. visa process stinks. I wanted to get a visa for my wife and stupidly misunderstood the "6months" to mean "multiple entry, longest stay six months" which it in fact is BUT it's only valid for six months, for nearly 5000 baht. If you want one for longer it costs some 15k baht! On top of that they want a one inch thick wad of paperwork with all the ins and outs of my personal business. Cheeky bastards. I am a bloody Brit too, that's the aggravating part. I walked out when I found out. I remembered why I left over 20 years ago and how much of a big brother place it has become so what is there to show her there? Spy cameras everywhere, speed cameras everywhere, a bloody immigrant checking my passport on entry, Eastern block tea leaves everywhere, a tax on farts and three and a half quid for a pint. Everything gasp inducingly expensive and bloody cold too.

Contrast that with the US Embassy. 4500 baht, a two minute chat followed by a 10 year B1/B2 visa for her (I have a Green Card). No problem. All those folks complaining about Thai immigration want to try dealing with the U.K. Perhaps you'll not complain quite so much then.

This whole UK visa experience is making me feel disenchanted with my own country. It makes you think "How does it make someone not from the UK feel?"

But if you think about it, yes it's harder to get in than say Thailand but once they are in and on the 2 year FLR they can work. No work permit required. Not the same as Thailand.

After 2 years and once they get ILR residence they if needed can claim benefits the same as a British person can. Not the same as Thailand.

After three years they can be naturalised and get a British passport. Not the same as Thailand.

I'm Married to a Thai but can NEVER be accepted and treated fairly in Thailand. My Wife gets treated equally and fairly here. No double pricing. No Land owning restrictions and NO VISA RUNS EVERY 90 DAYS.

You tell me...what's better?

A very good point and I do not claim to know the tip of the iceberg of the inequalities of a foreigner living in Thailand. I think what I'm trying to say is, that to even start on the path of just visiting the UK is vague and to say the least, subjective. Of course, the UK visa regulations are there for a reason but the measures and criteria by which successful tourist visas are granted seem inconsistent for a country we think of as being fair

Yes. Nobody was more p****d off than me. I had to give up a good paid job for my Wife to attend College full time to learn to write and read English and pass ESOL exams.

We were struggling while every other student in Her class were Asylum seekers. They get a 4 year visa, money and a house. My Wife was entitled to nothing for two years.

The immigration system is really stacked against anybody not in the E.U. but the people who give the Visas are working to the requirements of the Government. If you fulfill them you will get a Visa.

They need to know you are in a GENUINE relationship. If in doubt they might be letting somebody into the Country that could cost the taxpayer thousands of pounds a year in benefits and housing.

We kept every scrap of proof. E-mail, letters, photos etc. We never had a problem. We did have a child together and sombody known to the Embassy told me that in that case Visas are nearly always given if the Father's name is on the Birth cert.

But once you fight through the brick wall you are let into a Country that supports and helps the poor and treats Foreigners with respect and equality.

No chance of any of the above in Thailand.

[dave1971]

The U.K. visa process stinks. I wanted to get a visa for my wife and stupidly misunderstood the "6months" to mean "multiple entry, longest stay six months" which it in fact is BUT it's only valid for six months, for nearly 5000 baht. If you want one for longer it costs some 15k baht! On top of that they want a one inch thick wad of paperwork with all the ins and outs of my personal business. Cheeky bastards. I am a bloody Brit too, that's the aggravating part. I walked out when I found out. I remembered why I left over 20 years ago and how much of a big brother place it has become so what is there to show her there? Spy cameras everywhere, speed cameras everywhere, a bloody immigrant checking my passport on entry, Eastern block tea leaves everywhere, a tax on farts and three and a half quid for a pint. Everything gasp inducingly expensive and bloody cold too.

Contrast that with the US Embassy. 4500 baht, a two minute chat followed by a 10 year B1/B2 visa for her (I have a Green Card). No problem. All those folks complaining about Thai immigration want to try dealing with the U.K. Perhaps you'll not complain quite so much then.

This whole UK visa experience is making me feel disenchanted with my own country. It makes you think "How does it make someone not from the UK feel?"

But if you think about it, yes it's harder to get in than say Thailand but once they are in and on the 2 year FLR they can work. No work permit required. Not the same as Thailand.

After 2 years and once they get ILR residence they if needed can claim benefits the same as a British person can. Not the same as Thailand.

After three years they can be naturalised and get a British passport. Not the same as Thailand.

I'm Married to a Thai but can NEVER be accepted and treated fairly in Thailand. My Wife gets treated equally and fairly here. No double pricing. No Land owning restrictions and NO VISA RUNS EVERY 90 DAYS.

You tell me...what's better?

A very good point and I do not claim to know the tip of the iceberg of the inequalities of a foreigner living in Thailand. I think what I'm trying to say is, that to even start on the path of just visiting the UK is vague and to say the least, subjective. Of course, the UK visa regulations are there for a reason but the measures and criteria by which successful tourist visas are granted seem inconsistent for a country we think of as being fair

Yes. Nobody was more p****d off than me. I had to give up a good paid job for my Wife to attend College full time to learn to write and read English and pass ESOL exams.

We were struggling while every other student in Her class were Asylum seekers. They get a 4 year visa, money and a house. My Wife was entitled to nothing for two years.

The immigration system is really stacked against anybody not in the E.U. but the people who give the Visas are working to the requirements of the Government. If you fulfill them you will get a Visa.

They need to know you are in a GENUINE relationship. If in doubt they might be letting somebody into the Country that could cost the taxpayer thousands of pounds a year in benefits and housing.

We kept every scrap of proof. E-mail, letters, photos etc. We never had a problem. We did have a child together and sombody known to the Embassy told me that in that case Visas are nearly always given if the Father's name is on the Birth cert.

But once you fight through the brick wall you are let into a Country that supports and helps the poor and treats Foreigners with respect and equality.

No chance of any of the above in Thailand.

We are pulling together every letter, e-mail, chat, photos, though SMS could be tricky as her's was a topup phone. Many thanks for the advice.

[farangmal]

We are pulling together every letter, e-mail, chat, photos, though SMS could be tricky as her's was a topup phone. Many thanks for the advice.

Look...Nothing's impossible. There's a way to modify and edit your e-mails.

You could also do what me and my then girlfriend did and that is to register at Sirirat hospital in Bangkok and join the I.V.F. program trying to have a baby. Even if you only register and go for a checkup the Doctors at the Hospital will write a letter stating you are trying to have a baby together. Worked for us

There's many ways to skin a cat if you REALLY WANT to take Her to England.

Sometimes you need to think out of the box because they make it too bloody hard.

[FRM-BKK]

Hi Dave,

In your initial post you mention that you may contact your Member of Parliament to support your girlfriend's next application. I used this route in a second application for my partner (yes, we are gay!) as our first application was refused too. The refusal was on similar grounds as yours, except that we both live in Thailand!

I happen to be acquainted with the member of Parliament in my home town back in the UK. He - the MP - wrote a letter to the Embassy, supporting my friend's application. A week after the letter was sent by the MP, I contacted the Embassy by e-mail, to ask if they could confirm receipt of this letter.

In a snotty reply I received from the British Embassy, they confirmed receipt of the letter from the MP. However, they pointed out that although the letter was attached to my friend's application, the VCO would still judge the application on it's own merits. The way in which the embassy's response was written read in my opinion not to build up my hopes, just because I had a letter from my MP.

A visa was granted with the second application. Not sure if the letter from the MP was the convincing factor?

I wish you all the best in your efforts Dave! Don't give up!

Frm-Bkk

[dave1971]

Hi Dave,

In your initial post you mention that you may contact your Member of Parliament to support your girlfriend's next application. I used this route in a second application for my partner (yes, we are gay!) as our first application was refused too. The refusal was on similar grounds as yours, except that we both live in Thailand!

I happen to be acquainted with the member of Parliament in my home town back in the UK. He - the MP - wrote a letter to the Embassy, supporting my friend's application. A week after the letter was sent by the MP, I contacted the Embassy by e-mail, to ask if they could confirm receipt of this letter.

In a snotty reply I received from the British Embassy, they confirmed receipt of the letter from the MP. However, they pointed out that although the letter was attached to my friend's application, the VCO would still judge the application on it's own merits. The way in which the embassy's response was written read in my opinion not to build up my hopes, just because I had a letter from my MP.

A visa was granted with the second application. Not sure if the letter from the MP was the convincing factor?

I wish you all the best in your efforts Dave! Don't give up!

Frm-Bkk

Many thanks. I certainly won't give up and that is not through stubborness. It seems support from the local MP doesn't do any harm and in the end part of their role is to add weight to support the rights of their local constituents.

[the scouser]

The more I ponder this "reciprocal correspondence" argument, the more I'm convinced of its absurdity.

By definition, one party to the relationship has to initiate the routine contact, and that it may be the same person who makes the telephone call each time is of no consequence. What is of relevance is the frequency of contact and its duration; i.e. if phone calls are frequently of many minutes duration, it cannot be argued that the receiving party is not actively involved in the relationship as otherwise they simply would not either take the call or talk for so long.

Dave, have a chat with your lawyer pal about the possibilities of a judicial review application. As your girlfriend would be the plaintiff, it may be that she qualifies for legal aid.

Scouse.

[tracer]

My girlfriend has too just been refused a visit visa, So i fully sympathise with your situation Dave.

To make things even more interesting the VFS/Embassy have misplaced my girlfriends passport.

It never rains, it pours.

I really hope everything works our for you and your girl.

John

1. ONE of the reasons I went to Thailand: England is WORSE!

whats the VFS/Embassy???

[digalow]

UK VISIT VISA REFUSAL - I SENT THIS EMAIL TO VISAENQUIRIES

I am 29 English man - Thai girl is 25. To be fair our proof of relationship was weak but we provided documentation to show it was subisiting! This did not get pulled!

Dear Sirs,

I write to express my dismay at your decision to refuse my fiancée a tourist visa to sample life in the UK with me before we make a final commitment to marriage. I believe your decision to be totally incorrect and not within the Immigration Rules for which you kindly provided a link.

In paragraph 1 of the refusal you state that she has no assets or ties to Thailand. This is totally untrue as she owns property in Thailand and the land title deed and an English translation were provided as part of the documentary evidence submitted with the application but you have ignored them.

That she is unemployed and supported by me is no barrier to her being granted a tourist visa.

In paragraph 2 you imply that I am unable to financially support her during her time in the UK despite me supplying recent payslips and a letter from my employer. Further both my mother and grandmother wrote letters to support our application offering to help financially if necessary and supplying evidence of funds available. Your refusal notice suggests that they are lying and I take great umbrage at that suggestion. Obviously the accommodation available is suitable for a visitor and I see no reason for you to doubt that. A recent mortgage statement was provided as evidence.

Of more importance is the fact that our relationship is very genuine and we have spent five months living together in Thailand just prior to making this application. We only want to act in a sensible and prudent manner and feel it would be common sense for her to at least sample my lifestyle and meet my family and friends in the UK before getting married.

As declared we are both extremely well aware that if my fiancée broke any of the immigration rules, for example by working or overstaying, this would seriously jeopardise our future plans to marry and apply for a settlement visa.

In the circumstances I would ask you to revisit this case and overturn your original decision.

Sincerely

This is basically a reply to the refusal comments made on the refusal letter.

So, I, we, all of us who have been rejected on similar grounds have provided all the hard documentation and yet they say we did not provide the evidence... these people who make these decisions need to be (obscenity removed) and replaced with someone who can actually read and want to do the job properly. Why are these mistakes being made at the embassy? Its like sending a chair to the office with missiles on it and (obscene suggestion removed)... but they didnt see this! This was sent to us. no could not see it! Its that obvious the docs were sat in front of their eyes but they rudely ignored it!

To note: I was in living in Thailand for 6 months... met my girlfriend within 1 month... lived together for 5 months... I returned home and established myself... due to the fact I am establishing myself my mum is the sponser with access to a big savings account as a 3rd party. My mum and nan was used as addition security in case of emergency funding, all evidence was provided with ink signatures and signatures, stamps from the bank.

Comments appreciated

Many thanks for reading my post

Edited February 26, 2011 by 7by7
See comments in parentheses. Forum Rule No. 3

[RAZZELL]

To the OP.

Send a "polite" email to Ms. Posy Hartstone, the Entry Clearance Manager (ECM) in Bangkok asking for an informal review of the decision stating your concerns and offering to supply (or supply it anyway) additional evidence. If that get's you nowhere re-apply.

Try:

In writing, addressed to the Visa Manager, The British Embassy, 14 Wireless Road, Pathumwan, Bangkok, 10330.

By email, addressed to the Visa Manager at the address below:

//removed//

or:

//removed//

http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/visiting-uk/visas/

RAZZ

Edited February 25, 2011 by Tywais
e-mail removed as per forum rules

[theoldgit]

To the OP.

Send a "polite" email to Ms. Posy Hartstone, the Entry Clearance Manager (ECM) in Bangkok asking for an informal review of the decision stating your concerns and offering to supply (or supply it anyway) additional evidence. If that get's you nowhere re-apply.

Given the OP's post was about two and a half years ago it's probably a bit later for that approach, hopefully in the meantime I hope the visa was eventually granted.

I would like to think that this approach might get a positive response from one of the ECM's though I'm not convinced it would. Has anybody tried to email either of the ECM's directly, and got a response?

[VisasPlus]

To the OP.

Send a "polite" email to Ms. Posy Hartstone, the Entry Clearance Manager (ECM) in Bangkok asking for an informal review of the decision stating your concerns and offering to supply (or supply it anyway) additional evidence. If that get's you nowhere re-apply.

Given the OP's post was about two and a half years ago it's probably a bit later for that approach, hopefully in the meantime I hope the visa was eventually granted.

I would like to think that this approach might get a positive response from one of the ECM's though I'm not convinced it would. Has anybody tried to email either of the ECM's directly, and got a response?

You will not get a response that answers your query. You will be informed, quite rightly, that correspondence regarding any individual application should be directed initially to the Correspondence Team. I know, 'cos I've tried it. I have no problem with that, otherwise the ECMs would be spending all their time answering queries and not doing what they are meant to be doing........................ )

Edited February 25, 2011 by VisasPlus

[Thongkorn]

I got my now wife a holiday visa before we married, I got her one for 6 months . she did not have a job at the time and very little in the bank , She returned to Thailand after her 6 month stay in the UK ,I went out to Thailand 6 months later got married and applied for a settlement visa , and got one granted, I did them both myself, and got each first time ,Maybe your are not putting enough information and photos in your visa application.On the other hand i have seen a lot of failed married Thai Lady's in the UK , there boyfriends/husbands bring them into the UK then abandon them.Leaving the state to pick up the pieces.So there are two side to the boarder agency getting tougher. also there are a lot of bogus students in the country.At the moment in the UK there are about 4,000,000 illegal people,thats why they are cracking down , and it will get harder, But best of luck hope you get sorted.

[theoldgit]

You will not get a response that answers your query. You will be informed, quite rightly, that correspondence regarding any individual application should be directed initially to the Correspondence Team.

That's a fair point and I agree with you, the ECM's should not have to spend time fielding individual queries that could be dealt with at a lower level, they should be managing their team and carrying out administrative reviews in a timely manner.

That said, and I don't know what their actual procedure is, what I believe the ECM's should do with emails is have them automatically referred to the correspondence team rather than replying and advising customers to write to the team. Hopefully now that team is up and running people will actually get meaningful replies within a reasonable time frame.