La Royale Beach- Completion Risk?

[Eastcoast]

Dear Basjke, many thanks for your response to this thread. Please advise where you saw that the project was sold out. This interests me very much as if it were sold out I must be due a lot more money!!! I know for sure that I nor anyone in my company ever said it was sold out?? Where did you get this info. At present it is just over 80% sold.....

Regards,

David

East Coast

Hello David,

I presume you mean that 80% of the falang 49% is sold.

What percentage of the Thai quota is sold? Are Thai units being sold at a 50% discount like some in The River, Bangkok?

Would you personally risk buying in the Thai quota in that or any other building if the discount on the farang price was 50%?

Happy...(still undecided).

What I meant was that 80%+ of the main tower has been sold in total. In La Royale there are low rise buildings both behind and in front of the tower. The one behind is being retained by Wise Power under Thai ownership, this allows many more units to be sold in the other 2 parts for foreign owners. The building in front has sold 7 out of 32 units in foreign ownership%. With the square meterage of all 3 different sections added together we could sell almost all of the main tower under foreign ownership. There are still units available under foreign ownership within the development... Not many but some. Think the actual % of units sold to Thais is around 15% if you take away Wise Powers Thai % for the back building.

Not sure if that makes sense as busy in the office. May check back later to edit!!!

David

East Coast

[wcr]

The finalisation was that you wouldn't pay me!!!

I posted this comment due to the statement you made in a post here about how proud you were of your sales people. That hit a raw nerve for me. I sold 5 units on the opening night, as you will remember, more than anyone else. It wasn't just LRB however, what about the Northshore units I sold which I also didn't get paid out on?

Yes I am an ex UK police officer and yes understand the law, and Thai law is very similar in English law. And yes David I did take legal advice in Thailand and that advice came back that under Thai employment law a foriegn national is not allowed to sell real estate (as you will be aware) and therefore I would not have been able to sue for unpaid commissions. All I would have got was 3 months salary which I was entitled to but didn't get. I decided not to persue you through the courts for that amount considering that I was owed around 300,000 baht in commissions on leaving ECRE and that excluded anything due from the sales at LRB, which I realistically didn't expect to be paid out on.

Unfortunatly this is the situation for anyone who works in a sales role in Thailand. Work permits issued to people in sales roles show them as consultants giving advice to foriegn nationals about buying in Thailand on a fixed salary. When things go wrong, it is the employee that suffers and the employors that benifit. I realised that after my experiences at East Coast and after that started up my own business where I was in control.

[Eastcoast]

The finalisation was that you wouldn't pay me!!!

I posted this comment due to the statement you made in a post here about how proud you were of your sales people. That hit a raw nerve for me. I sold 5 units on the opening night, as you will remember, more than anyone else. It wasn't just LRB however, what about the Northshore units I sold which I also didn't get paid out on?

Yes I am an ex UK police officer and yes understand the law, and Thai law is very similar in English law. And yes David I did take legal advice in Thailand and that advice came back that under Thai employment law a foriegn national is not allowed to sell real estate (as you will be aware) and therefore I would not have been able to sue for unpaid commissions. All I would have got was 3 months salary which I was entitled to but didn't get. I decided not to persue you through the courts for that amount considering that I was owed around 300,000 baht in commissions on leaving ECRE and that excluded anything due from the sales at LRB, which I realistically didn't expect to be paid out on.

Unfortunatly this is the situation for anyone who works in a sales role in Thailand. Work permits issued to people in sales roles show them as consultants giving advice to foriegn nationals about buying in Thailand on a fixed salary. When things go wrong, it is the employee that suffers and the employors that benifit. I realised that after my experiences at East Coast and after that started up my own business where I was in control.

OK John,

I am sorry you feel this way but I guess everyone has an opinion and for sure depending on how you look at the situation all could be right. Still wonder if you would pay your ad guy monthly for 12 months if he was only with you for 3 months though? I didn't set the company policy this way to rip off my agents. I did it this way to protect the ones who stay and who look after the clients after an agent leaves. I still paid out the commissions but just not to you, sorry.

Again sincerely hope you are strong and well back home.

Regards,

David

Edited September 26, 2008 by Eastcoast

[norrona]

I wish any company in the world paid out commission for filling out forms on a launch night as the sales biz would be really easy and I would still be doing it and be extremely rich....

everyone in a sales enviroment knows that filling out forms and the excitement of a launch night gets many people hooked but the follow up right through to completion is the hard part what with buyers remorse or the fact that they haven't got the liquid cash in the first place.

I have worked in Pattaya, Europe and Africa selling real estate and it has always worked like this, hats off to David for having a set of rules and sticking to them within his company and looking after his loyal staff, if I were in his employ maybe I would have stuck it out in Pattaya

as for la royale and building the thai tower...never knew about that, what an ingenious idea

[APMann]

The finalisation was that you wouldn't pay me!!!

I posted this comment due to the statement you made in a post here about how proud you were of your sales people. That hit a raw nerve for me. I sold 5 units on the opening night, as you will remember, more than anyone else. It wasn't just LRB however, what about the Northshore units I sold which I also didn't get paid out on?

Yes I am an ex UK police officer and yes understand the law, and Thai law is very similar in English law. And yes David I did take legal advice in Thailand and that advice came back that under Thai employment law a foriegn national is not allowed to sell real estate (as you will be aware) and therefore I would not have been able to sue for unpaid commissions. All I would have got was 3 months salary which I was entitled to but didn't get. I decided not to persue you through the courts for that amount considering that I was owed around 300,000 baht in commissions on leaving ECRE and that excluded anything due from the sales at LRB, which I realistically didn't expect to be paid out on.

Unfortunatly this is the situation for anyone who works in a sales role in Thailand. Work permits issued to people in sales roles show them as consultants giving advice to foriegn nationals about buying in Thailand on a fixed salary. When things go wrong, it is the employee that suffers and the employors that benifit. I realised that after my experiences at East Coast and after that started up my own business where I was in control.

I am not really interested in the airing of this sort of grievance on these boards, especially deeply personal ex employer/employee disputes which are not actionable in Thai courts. Most people think david and East Coast are one of the Premier outfits in Pattaya. Nothing in this exchange makes me think differently, except I admire David for coming on to clear the air. It would make these boards more interesting if other agents of planned/half built buildings came on when their promoted developments come under attack.

Edited September 26, 2008 by APMann

[boonmee]

The finalisation was that you wouldn't pay me!!!

I posted this comment due to the statement you made in a post here about how proud you were of your sales people. That hit a raw nerve for me. I sold 5 units on the opening night, as you will remember, more than anyone else. It wasn't just LRB however, what about the Northshore units I sold which I also didn't get paid out on?

Yes I am an ex UK police officer and yes understand the law, and Thai law is very similar in English law. And yes David I did take legal advice in Thailand and that advice came back that under Thai employment law a foriegn national is not allowed to sell real estate (as you will be aware) and therefore I would not have been able to sue for unpaid commissions. All I would have got was 3 months salary which I was entitled to but didn't get. I decided not to persue you through the courts for that amount considering that I was owed around 300,000 baht in commissions on leaving ECRE and that excluded anything due from the sales at LRB, which I realistically didn't expect to be paid out on.

Unfortunatly this is the situation for anyone who works in a sales role in Thailand. Work permits issued to people in sales roles show them as consultants giving advice to foriegn nationals about buying in Thailand on a fixed salary. When things go wrong, it is the employee that suffers and the employors that benifit. I realised that after my experiences at East Coast and after that started up my own business where I was in control.

OK John,

I am sorry you feel this way but I guess everyone has an opinion and for sure depending on how you look at the situation all could be right. Still wonder if you would pay your ad guy monthly for 12 months if he was only with you for 3 months though? I didn't set the company policy this way to rip of my agents. I did it this way to protect the ones who stay and who look after the clients after an agent leaves. I still paid out the commissions but just not to you, sorry.

Again sincerely hope you are strong and well back home.

Regards,

David

Hey David,

I agree a 100% that John does not have a leg to stand on. All you need to do is look at his previous posts and see what a bitter individual he is and only attacks at a safe distance of over 8,000 miles away.

Hopefully his health will improve along with his outlook on life past and present.

Best of luck John.

[wcr]

Yep, so bitter that I am presently working in partnership with 2 Pattaya based businesses (not real estate) helping them to grow thier businesses here in the UK hopefully in a win-win situation for all of us. On top of two other businesses approached me prior to leaving Thailand (real estate) wanting to work with me also in getting business from the UK and Europe. And the reason why is because...

I am such a bitter individual me

Edited September 26, 2008 by wcr

[nouvo135]

Is it the case then that all the Real Estate guys who take you around and show propertys are breaking the Immigration Laws???????

If so thats terrible.... I thought they where all saints.

you did a few years ago with me and my wife David. Un accompanied !!!!!

Terrible and so shocking. just makes me want to head straight to the airport..

NOT!!!!!!!

Double Glazing, Time share and real Estate......... say no more..

Edited September 26, 2008 by nouvo135

[basjke]

Seems East Coast is wel presented on thaivisa in the mean time.

[expatgaz]

John,Don't know you but can hazard a very good guess.Your making yourself look silly mate.Going public like this on a chat room forum makes you seem very bitter.Best thing is just to crack on with all them "'offers"' you've got since leaving THailand.Get on with them mate,don't get so bitter and twisted.On another note,your Mag was good,but you even got all bitter in your farewell edotors note.

Dont give them the satisfaction of knowing that they've really really upset you.Chin up mate.

EPG

[Wonderboy]

As I hope you remember, our company policy is very strict regarding staff members who either leave of their own choice or are fired. Any commission monies received before their leaving date are paid over and any deals not complete are not. This is especially the case with off plan developments. You left very soon after the launch of La Royale 3 years ago. I pay commission on completed deals. This means looking after the clients from booking day, through their payments schedule, making sure all correct documentation is in place for an easy transfer and answering questions and concerns throughout the construction process to the best of our ability. None of your deals are completed yet and you only did the booking part of the process, which I consider the easy part.

David

East Coast

Over the years I have not received any updates or progress reports of any kind from East Coast (Invitations to parties and material selection not included). If i wanted to know something, I had to contact myself and hope for the best. E-mails went by unreplied or were at best partly replied in a couple of sentences. Even right after I had shown my keen interest to buy, I was not followed up, and my e-mails were painfully slow to get answered and the answers so unprofessional I almost dropped my purchase. When you are in the deceiding phase, I really think that some follow-up from staff is what can tip the balance. It was even worse for a friend I recomended buying. He was so pissed of with lack of service that I had to convince him myself to reconsider and finally he did sign. Still to this day he claims he would never had signed if it was not for me. Yes, your staff is very friendly, but not at all professional. Wonder how many potential customers they did loose... Care to pay me any comission?

Truth to be said, as I never heard much from East Coast, after signing I dealt mainly with Wise Power land and they were much worse, downright appaling. I could fill pages describing their misbehaviour. In Thailand it seems you get absolutely no service however many millions you spend. Even when ordering a DVD back home for a couple of hundreds, if delayed some days/weeks, you get follow-ups and even rebates. La Royale is almost two years delayed, and no compesation of ANY kind have been offered! When missing one of their many sliding completion, dates they would never tell you in advance, but come up with some lame excuse and an equally false new completion date in an e-mail weeks or even months after... And to this East Coast was equally bad. As late as last November, you claimed La Royale should be finished by the end of 2007 causing people to buy flights to Thailand.

Wonderboy

PS. Maybe you can fill in the details of what is beeing build next to La Royale?

Edited September 27, 2008 by Wonderboy

[Eastcoast]

As I hope you remember, our company policy is very strict regarding staff members who either leave of their own choice or are fired. Any commission monies received before their leaving date are paid over and any deals not complete are not. This is especially the case with off plan developments. You left very soon after the launch of La Royale 3 years ago. I pay commission on completed deals. This means looking after the clients from booking day, through their payments schedule, making sure all correct documentation is in place for an easy transfer and answering questions and concerns throughout the construction process to the best of our ability. None of your deals are completed yet and you only did the booking part of the process, which I consider the easy part.

David

East Coast

Over the years I have not received any updates or progress reports of any kind from East Coast (Invitations to parties and material selection not included). If i wanted to know something, I had to contact myself and hope for the best. E-mails went by unreplied or were at best partly replied in a couple of sentences. Even right after I had shown my keen interest to buy, I was not followed up, and my e-mails were painfully slow to get answered and the answers so unprofessional I almost dropped my purchase. When you are in the deceiding phase, I really think that some follow-up from staff is what can tip the balance. It was even worse for a friend I recomended buying. He was so pissed of with lack of service that I had to convince him myself to reconsider and finally he did sign. Still to this day he claims he would never had signed if it was not for me. Yes, your staff is very friendly, but not at all professional. Wonder how many potential customers they did loose... Care to pay me any comission?

Truth to be said, as I never heard much from East Coast, after signing I dealt mainly with Wise Power land and they were much worse, downright appaling. I could fill pages describing their misbehaviour. In Thailand it seems you get absolutely no service however many millions you spend. Even when ordering a DVD back home for a couple of hundreds, if delayed some days/weeks, you get follow-ups and even rebates. La Royale is almost two years delayed, and no compesation of ANY kind have been offered! When missing one of their many sliding completion, dates they would never tell you in advance, but come up with some lame excuse and an equally false new completion date in an e-mail weeks or even months after... And to this East Coast was equally bad. As late as last November, you claimed La Royale should be finished by the end of 2007 causing people to buy flights to Thailand.

Wonderboy

PS. Maybe you can fill in the details of what is beeing build next to La Royale?

I can't agree more with your statements regarding communication with the La Royale development. The problem we had is that we can only supply info provided by the developer. Fact is we could get no definite answers there either. It has been very hard over the last year especially, even though they actually have a customer care section which was meant to take care of all customer correspondence. That probably is the main problem as most correspondence went straight to Wise Power and they simply didn't respond. When asked specific questions by clients we would always try and get the answers but I'm sorry to say that some times these answers were way of the mark or we just didn't get the answers!!

The biggest problem we faced was when notification of completion letters were sent out to clients without us being informed. Some clients actually booked flights and came over only to find there had been even more delays!!! I can certainly apologise for this but it was outside our control. I only knew about this letter when I received one myself.

On the good side there does seem to be some light at the end of the tunnel now. Title deeds are issued and transfers are starting to take place. Hopefully within a year there will be many happy owners instead of the frustrated purchasers as we all are now.

Haven't seen any plans for the development next door but believe it to be a mixture of condominium units and hotel. They seem to be keeping the building specifics pretty secret at the moment. If anyone out there knows more it would be interesting to many if info could be posted.

Wonderboy, in future please feel free to contact me directly instead of going through dead end routes. Not saying I will get the answers you want but I will try.

Many thanks for your post.

David

East Coast

[Wonderboy]

Thank you very much for a quick and informative reply. If all corespondance regarding La Royale had been like this, you would never heard a single complaint from me. Delays happen anywhere, and any reasonable customer can accept that given timely and correct explanations. Wise Power Land (not to be confused with their agent Eastcoast realestate) really made it hard for themselves. Regular updates and quick response to customers questions would have silenced most of the complaints. Instead they opted for silence and promises they knew they could not deliver on.

Wonderboy

[Crow Boy]

PMs have been sent to two members but at this stage no further action has been taken.

Reminder to all - this thread is about La Royale Beach condominium not employment issues.

Crow Boy

Moderating Team

Thai Visa

[Bel Mondo]

Unfortunately, in the future weeks/months, we will see many more posts that question the integrity of various Pattaya condo projects.

The "Bubble" has burst, not only in the USA, the UK and other countries, but also in Thailand.

We all knew this would come about.

Some are simply in "denial".

Let's just hope the money we have in a bank account will be available in the future.

[nouvo135]

Unfortunately, in the future weeks/months, we will see many more posts that question the integrity of various Pattaya condo projects.

You may see the posts, however some will probably be deleted as seems to happen here. dont hold your breath. Depends which one you mention. Dont dare question the integrity of zertain developerz.

The "Bubble" has burst, not only in the USA, the UK and other countries, but also in Thailand.

We all knew this would come about.

Some are simply in "denial".

Let's just hope the money we have in a bank account will be available in the future.

Forget the banks

Do what i do and get your Thai wife/Girlfriend to look after it. She can make vely good investment playing cards. sure she goner win, she had dleam last night.

[Gary A]

If La Royale is a GOOD development, what are the bad ones like? If I ever buy another condo, I'll be there helping the owner move out. I want to see what I'm buying and that's after checking the financial condition of the condo association. I think the odds of winning in a casino are quite a bit better than getting involved in new developments.

[Crow Boy]

Realistically buying anything off plan has a higher risk than an established condominium but the reward versus risk is higher because developers offer discounted rates to early purchasers. Obviously they do this to 1) show demand and 2) generate revenue. It is a speculative investment and should be viewed as such. Add to that the unregulated market that is Thailand and the possibility that some developers may not be totally above board.

I personally think that buying off plan means the purchaser must be prepared to lose all the money they have invested - there is no different to buying any similar product such as speculative shares, futures, race horses etc.

I have my home in Chiang Mai but now live in Pattaya. It is unlikely that I will buy a condominium here because there is a high level of oversupply especially in the mid level market and I can easily rent a condo for an acceptable rate with much lower risk to my limited capital.

At the end of the day it is up to each of us to conduct our own due dilligence and make a decision based on knowledge not gut instinct or glossy brochures. The La Royale looks like a pretty good place to live and potentially a good investment but I won't be doing either.

CB

[norrona]

difference between buying off plan in thailand versus europe is in europe you can put as little as 15% down till completion so that is all your risking, in thailand it is not unheard of to pay up to 90% before completion...big risk

[zorro1]

difference between buying off plan in thailand versus europe is in europe you can put as little as 15% down till completion so that is all your risking, in thailand it is not unheard of to pay up to 90% before completion...big risk

Nothing like getting it completely wrong I'm signing tomorrow on another condo in BKK and its only 15% deposit paid in equal installments over a 2 year period and then 85% on completion. Even the deposit is stretched out so if the building stops so does my money. Doesnt get much better

[wcr]

Buying anything is a huge risk in Thailand, be it a condo, house or business. I think BKK is better than Pattaya, more trustworthy and worldly businesses and business people in BKK. Pattaya has far to many cowboys, and as someone who lived and worked there for over 5 years I can say that with confidence.

The housing market in the UK is in dire problems, and with what happened yesterday in the good ol US of A, it is set to get worse. As well as a second major UK bank being nationalised yestereday to avoid collapse, 3 banks were nationalised in the EU all down to our stupid American cousins not following through on promises. Luckily our government guarentees that savings upto £35,000 are safe in a government scheme, so you just have several accounts at different banks if you have over £35,000 in savings. What protection does the Thai government give you, or its people for that matter?

What is happening in the west will come to the east, and soon. It should be a concern for anyone who has a lot of money tied up in Thailand I would think.

[norrona]

difference between buying off plan in thailand versus europe is in europe you can put as little as 15% down till completion so that is all your risking, in thailand it is not unheard of to pay up to 90% before completion...big risk

Nothing like getting it completely wrong I'm signing tomorrow on another condo in BKK and its only 15% deposit paid in equal installments over a 2 year period and then 85% on completion. Even the deposit is stretched out so if the building stops so does my money. Doesnt get much better

great I got it wrong not exactly offered across the board though is it...

[zorro1]

Usually around 30% from what I now and your right you would have to be nuts to put down 90% unless it was protected by Escrow

[sirbrinkie]

Have just retured from La Royale and they now confirm that a total of 15 units have been transfered to their Owners. This is a step in the right direction. I myself have an A Unit and have already transferred and now have my own Contractors in place making all the changes that I deemed necessary.

La Royale is a prime beach front property and will always be in demand. It would seem that as soon as sufficent units have been transfered and the Banks satisfied, construction will again take place on the front & back unites of the Main Tower.

I think we all agree that as far as PR is concerned Wise Power leaves a lot to be desired and it would have been very beneficial if they had kept the Owners better updated as to what is happening etc.

The color scheme will always be a "point of discussion" but at least everyone will know where La Royale is located as it does stand out from all the other Condominiums.

Ex Tarzan Hut property, there is a lot of work being carried out and no doubt in the very near futur they will have their showrooms ready for inspection and SALES. Iam sure that also the Developers of this project will be most interested to ensure that La Royale is complete asap as it would have a negative impact on their sales.

Thanks also to David of East Coast for his valuable input and also many thanks to Sabina for her continual assistance.

[Eastcoast]

Just a quick update for the La Royale purchasers who use this forum. This week we have been having meetings with Wise Power the developers of La Royale condominium. Mainly regarding the updates etc to clients (or lack off). We (East Coast) are now going through the entire building taking comprehensive pictures of all apartments and noting the different stages of completion. Hopefully over the coming week we will be advising all purchasers of the exact state of their individual units. We will also send out copies of their title deeds so at least you can be reassured that progress is being made.

Already various clients such as Sir Binkie above have transferred title. If you would also like to transfer title quickly, please advise and we can push Wise Power to concentrate on specific units. In future for any questions regarding La Royale please send directly to either me or Sabina at the email addresses below. Wise Power have decided that East Coast will take over much of the customer care responsibilities from Wise Power. I hope that you will find over the coming weeks a great improvement in communication.

<snip - please send David a PM if you wish to contact him direct>

Regards,

David

East Coast

P.S. Thanks for the kind words Sir Binkie.... Much appreciated.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Crow Boy
removal of eMail address as per forum rules

[sirbrinkie]

David,

That is great news to have both you and Sabina back in the picture and Iam sure that the Owners will be very pleased with this news.

Could you also help us in convincing Wise Power to spent a little money in removing the enormous amount of garbage on every landing of the building. There are many truck loads of garbage that needs to be removed which is an "eye sore" for anyone going to their Unit and which does not help the overall look of the areas plus a serious fire hazard.

[Eastcoast]

Thanks for the suggestion. This is one of the first things we have on the agenda. After Sabina and my wife Khun Gade walked in every unit from the 35th down to the 17th floor yesterday the problem of garbage and waste materials being left around was only too obvious. They have requested directly to Eric Lai that at least 5 guys need to work solely on that project. Hopefully once we have cleared the floors and common areas people will see that there has been a lot of work already completed, instead of the first impression of why did I buy here and should I change my name to Stig of the dump!!

[Wonderboy]

Have just retured from La Royale and they now confirm that a total of 15 units have been transfered to their Owners. This is a step in the right direction.

Up to 16 transfers today now as I just did mine. The guys responsible for the tiles deserves some spanking, but I guess the punishment of redoing stuff will be sufficient. Why do they never do it right the first time?

There were many minor details that they promised to fix , and they did so without any argueing at all. Very surprised Over all I think my unit looked quite ok. My biggest concern was the aircons. I have heard planes less noisy! It was the same thing in two other units I looked at, so I wonder if this is is the same all over.

Wonderboy

[Wonderboy]

Have just retured from La Royale and they now confirm that a total of 15 units have been transfered to their Owners. This is a step in the right direction.

Up to 16 transfers now as I just did mine. The guys responsible for the tiles deserves some spanking, but I guess the punishment of redoing stuff will be sufficient. Why do they never do it right the first time?

There were many minor details that they promised to fix , and they did so without any argueing at all. Very surprised Over all I think my unit looked quite ok. My biggest concern was the aircons. I have heard planes less noisy! It was the same thing in two other units I looked at, so I wonder if this is is the same all over.

Wonderboy

Edited October 4, 2008 by Wonderboy

[sirbrinkie]

Have just retured from La Royale and they now confirm that a total of 15 units have been transfered to their Owners. This is a step in the right direction.

Up to 16 transfers now as I just did mine. The guys responsible for the tiles deserves some spanking, but I guess the punishment of redoing stuff will be sufficient. Why do they never do it right the first time?

There were many minor details that they promised to fix , and they did so without any argueing at all. Very surprised Over all I think my unit looked quite ok. My biggest concern was the aircons. I have heard planes less noisy! It was the same thing in two other units I looked at, so I wonder if this is is the same all over.

Wonderboy

I believe the tiling throughout is a disaster and maybe this was due to a lack of proper supervision and I also have an agreement with them to bring them up to the same standard as the original ones in the show unit. They are waiting for me to knock down some walls and erect some others.

The other day I noticed 3 A/C units running but the noise was not too excessive - maybe they have been there such a long time and need some LTC. My major concern as mentioned previously is the amount of garbage that has been allowed to accumulate - again I would guess at a lack of supervision - but if this is not taken care of urgently we shall "drown" in the stuff and more is added daily. While they are focusing on the outside with plants etc - cosmetic - they would be wise to focus on what we farangs would deem a major priority and which will induce others to also take ownership of their units. They need to organise a small team that cleans daily from the top floor to the bottom