Loud Americans Overtaken By Louder Russians ....

[taxexile]

From Russia with riches - and rudeness

Move over loud Americans and towel-brandishing Germans - now there’s a new tourist annoying British holidaymakers, says Max Davidson.

Last Updated: 7:38AM BST 21 Aug 2008

First it was Brad from Illinois, with his 20-stone wife, trying to do Europe in a week. Then it was Fritz from Munich, hogging the sunlounger. Then it was Shane from Brisbane, with the accent you could cut with a knife. Every generation of British holidaymakers has its bête noire, its least favourite fellow tourist. And there is no doubt who is filling the bill this summer — Ivan from Moscow, the hotel guest from hel_l. See that guy with a gold bracelet propping up the bar, with a blonde on each arm? That’s Ivan. See the guy at the corner table, puffing clouds of smoke while snapping instructions into his mobile phone? That’s Ivan’s mate, Nikolai. See the guy with bulging biceps squiring the blowsy redhead in the see-through shirt? That’s Ivan’s mate Nikolai’s minder, Boris. And, yes, that is a gun in his armpit, just above the tiger tattoo.

Ivan and his entourage seem to be everywhere, from the Aegean to the Canary Islands, and if you go by the anecdotal evidence, they are making more enemies than friends.

When it came to behaving badly abroad, the gold medals used to go to British lager louts, trashing places like Bangkok, Benidorm and Faliraki. We are still a force to be reckoned with — the number of British holidaymakers arrested is up 15 per cent on last year — but we have been knocked off the podium by the Russians.

“The place was crawling with them,” says a friend who has just returned from a week in a five-star hotel in Antalya in Turkey. “Men in hideously tight Speedo trunks, women who looked about 16 and dressed like prostitutes... They were loud, aggressive, smoked incessantly, filled the place with their fumes. As for booze, they outdid the Brits at their own game: got drunk faster, and were more aggressive afterwards.”

I had a similar experience at a Greek beach resort. There was an isolated cove with the words “QUIET BEACH” posted in five different languages. Which accent reverberated across the sand as the rest of us tried to read? You guessed. And who ostentatiously ordered the most expensive bottles of champagne on the wine-list to wash down their lunch? Got it in one.

Partly, of course, we are envious, the way we used to be envious of American tourists when the dollar ruled. For heaven’s sake, we think to ourselves, as the rouble billionaires flash their wads, it is only 20 years ago that these guys were queuing barefoot for bread in the snow.

But there is more to it than envy. There is a clash of cultures: different social attitudes to everything from smoking to mobile phone use and appropriate skirt lengths. It is a toxic combination - and the way modern package tourism works, with 50 Russians suddenly pitching up at the same hotel as 50 Brits or Germans, only makes it more so. National differences get magnified; mutual resentment festers.

Among many “Old Europe” hoteliers, there is a perception, fair or not, that Russians in large numbers are bad news. In 2007, in the upmarket Austrian ski resort of Kitzbühel, it was decided to impose a 10 per cent “quota” on Russians: they were felt to lower the tone and put off other guests.

Even the mighty Roman Abramovich is not immune to the backlash against his countrymen. Earlier this month, the multi-billionaire Chelsea owner was refused a table at a restaurant on the Tuscany coast. He was told — and how one envies the man who did the telling — to come back tomorrow as the restaurant was fully booked. “From north to south,” said La Stampa, the Turin daily, “a rebellion is growing against those who show off their wealth and power.”

All over the Mediterranean, there are frictions. Some of them are comically trivial. Non-Russians, for example, are baffled by the way Russians like to reserve seats for evening entertainment by placing pebbles or apples on the chairs — shades of the infamous German towels. But some of them go deeper.

“It is as much a question of decibels as anything else,” says a friend with bad memories of disturbed nights on a holiday on the Croatian coast last summer. “There were only about a dozen Russians in the hotel, but they made enough noise for 50. They didn’t seem to have any conception that other people might want a more low-key kind of holiday. When I tried to complain, that only made things worse.”

In the interests of international harmony, it is fair to say that not all Britons have had bad experiences of Russians on holiday: indeed, it has been said that it is our snobbery, not their rudeness, that is the problem.

“Some of them do make an easy target,” says travel writer Claire Wrathall, who spent time in Russia as a student. “I am thinking of the ones who turn up in the bar wearing silver trainers or an absurd amount of bling. But if you take the trouble to get to know them, particularly the ones travelling on their own rather than in a tour group, they are remarkably sophisticated, the reverse of narrow-minded. Russians tend to be much better at languages than the British and they have a healthy respect for British traditions and culture.”

Hope springs eternal, of course, and when one sees names like Andrei Petrovich or Natalia Godunova in a hotel register in Greece or Italy, one entertains fantasies about meeting characters straight out of Tolstoy or Chekhov: gentle, intelligent, humane; the proud representatives of a great culture.

But why are so many of those fantasies dashed by the sound of a drunken shriek and someone falling off their barstool?

[chiang mai]

From Russia with riches - and rudeness

Move over loud Americans and towel-brandishing Germans - now there’s a new tourist annoying British holidaymakers, says Max Davidson.

Last Updated: 7:38AM BST 21 Aug 2008

First it was Brad from Illinois, with his 20-stone wife, trying to do Europe in a week. Then it was Fritz from Munich, hogging the sunlounger. Then it was Shane from Brisbane, with the accent you could cut with a knife. Every generation of British holidaymakers has its bête noire, its least favourite fellow tourist. And there is no doubt who is filling the bill this summer — Ivan from Moscow, the hotel guest from hel_l. See that guy with a gold bracelet propping up the bar, with a blonde on each arm? That’s Ivan. See the guy at the corner table, puffing clouds of smoke while snapping instructions into his mobile phone? That’s Ivan’s mate, Nikolai. See the guy with bulging biceps squiring the blowsy redhead in the see-through shirt? That’s Ivan’s mate Nikolai’s minder, Boris. And, yes, that is a gun in his armpit, just above the tiger tattoo.

Ivan and his entourage seem to be everywhere, from the Aegean to the Canary Islands, and if you go by the anecdotal evidence, they are making more enemies than friends.

When it came to behaving badly abroad, the gold medals used to go to British lager louts, trashing places like Bangkok, Benidorm and Faliraki. We are still a force to be reckoned with — the number of British holidaymakers arrested is up 15 per cent on last year — but we have been knocked off the podium by the Russians.

“The place was crawling with them,” says a friend who has just returned from a week in a five-star hotel in Antalya in Turkey. “Men in hideously tight Speedo trunks, women who looked about 16 and dressed like prostitutes... They were loud, aggressive, smoked incessantly, filled the place with their fumes. As for booze, they outdid the Brits at their own game: got drunk faster, and were more aggressive afterwards.”

I had a similar experience at a Greek beach resort. There was an isolated cove with the words “QUIET BEACH” posted in five different languages. Which accent reverberated across the sand as the rest of us tried to read? You guessed. And who ostentatiously ordered the most expensive bottles of champagne on the wine-list to wash down their lunch? Got it in one.

Partly, of course, we are envious, the way we used to be envious of American tourists when the dollar ruled. For heaven’s sake, we think to ourselves, as the rouble billionaires flash their wads, it is only 20 years ago that these guys were queuing barefoot for bread in the snow.

But there is more to it than envy. There is a clash of cultures: different social attitudes to everything from smoking to mobile phone use and appropriate skirt lengths. It is a toxic combination - and the way modern package tourism works, with 50 Russians suddenly pitching up at the same hotel as 50 Brits or Germans, only makes it more so. National differences get magnified; mutual resentment festers.

Among many “Old Europe” hoteliers, there is a perception, fair or not, that Russians in large numbers are bad news. In 2007, in the upmarket Austrian ski resort of Kitzbühel, it was decided to impose a 10 per cent “quota” on Russians: they were felt to lower the tone and put off other guests.

Even the mighty Roman Abramovich is not immune to the backlash against his countrymen. Earlier this month, the multi-billionaire Chelsea owner was refused a table at a restaurant on the Tuscany coast. He was told — and how one envies the man who did the telling — to come back tomorrow as the restaurant was fully booked. “From north to south,” said La Stampa, the Turin daily, “a rebellion is growing against those who show off their wealth and power.”

All over the Mediterranean, there are frictions. Some of them are comically trivial. Non-Russians, for example, are baffled by the way Russians like to reserve seats for evening entertainment by placing pebbles or apples on the chairs — shades of the infamous German towels. But some of them go deeper.

“It is as much a question of decibels as anything else,” says a friend with bad memories of disturbed nights on a holiday on the Croatian coast last summer. “There were only about a dozen Russians in the hotel, but they made enough noise for 50. They didn’t seem to have any conception that other people might want a more low-key kind of holiday. When I tried to complain, that only made things worse.”

In the interests of international harmony, it is fair to say that not all Britons have had bad experiences of Russians on holiday: indeed, it has been said that it is our snobbery, not their rudeness, that is the problem.

“Some of them do make an easy target,” says travel writer Claire Wrathall, who spent time in Russia as a student. “I am thinking of the ones who turn up in the bar wearing silver trainers or an absurd amount of bling. But if you take the trouble to get to know them, particularly the ones travelling on their own rather than in a tour group, they are remarkably sophisticated, the reverse of narrow-minded. Russians tend to be much better at languages than the British and they have a healthy respect for British traditions and culture.”

Hope springs eternal, of course, and when one sees names like Andrei Petrovich or Natalia Godunova in a hotel register in Greece or Italy, one entertains fantasies about meeting characters straight out of Tolstoy or Chekhov: gentle, intelligent, humane; the proud representatives of a great culture.

But why are so many of those fantasies dashed by the sound of a drunken shriek and someone falling off their barstool?

I can't say that I totally disagree with the sentiments in the article but I am less worried. The Rouble has been fairly strong in recent times but recent events mean that it will almost certainly weaken - that should keep Boris and co nicely at home.

[PhilHarries]

During the last few years visits to Pattaya I've certainly noticed the increase in Russians both by their physical presence and their effect on the town (signs in Russian). But I have to admit they don't come across as particularly loud or boorish but that might be just me being lucky or not going to the "right" places. I think when you get a large group of many nationalities together, particularly young men, you will get a degree of loud, obnoxious behaviour. The best course of action is just to avoid them but, of course, that's a bit difficult if you happen to be in the same hotel.

To use a paraphrase:-

All people are obnoxious just that the others are more obnoxious than yourself.

[Sporting Dog]

I recently caught the train in Kanchanaburi (the tourist one) and had the mispleasure of having a few russians sit near us. They were loud, boorish and arrogant (and rich - one had great delight in getting out his wad of 1k baht notes and showing them around).

I'm sure they're not all like this - and a few of them looked a bit embarassed by the compatriots behaviour. I didn't say anything cos I assumed them to be mafia, weapons dealer or serial killers.

Luckily they didn't stay on the train for too long.

I think 25yo+ israelis are worse.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Sporting Dog

[Florin]

What a retarded, xenophobic article...care to post the source while you're at it?

I especially loved the "it is only 20 years ago that these guys were queuing barefoot for bread in the snow" comment...I can't say I'm a fan of the New Russians, but this piece of trash journalism makes my blood boil.

If someone decides to go to Pattaya or Ibiza on holiday, what do they expect?? Places like that are full of trashy people from all over the Northern Hemisphere!

[Jingthing]

What a retarded, xenophobic article...care to post the source while you're at it?

I especially loved the "it is only 20 years ago that these guys were queuing barefoot for bread in the snow" comment...I can't say I'm a fan of the New Russians, but this piece of trash journalism makes my blood boil.

If someone decides to go to Pattaya or Ibiza on holiday, what do they expect?? Places like that are full of trashy people from all over the Northern Hemisphere!

Rule #!: Never ever miss an opportunity to trash Pattaya!

(The Russians have come, and they are loud.)

[Florin]

What a retarded, xenophobic article...care to post the source while you're at it?

I especially loved the "it is only 20 years ago that these guys were queuing barefoot for bread in the snow" comment...I can't say I'm a fan of the New Russians, but this piece of trash journalism makes my blood boil.

If someone decides to go to Pattaya or Ibiza on holiday, what do they expect?? Places like that are full of trashy people from all over the Northern Hemisphere!

Rule #!: Never ever miss an opportunity to trash Pattaya!

(The Russians have come, and they are loud.)

So hold on, what you're saying is that Pattaya does not have trashy people?

I'm not saying everyone is like that, but there are PLENTY of people like that...and not at all limited to Russians. I agree that they're loud and obnoxious, but I think no more so than any other drunken idiots trying to get laid in places like Pattaya.

[t.s]

the piece is so deliciously filled with irony.

the "british holiday maker"complaining about an american with a 20 stone wife. bahaha!

who do you think is the bete noire for "holiday makers" from the rest of the "civilised" world?

[Bangyai]

If being "obnoxious on holiday' ever becomes an olympic event than surely we will sweep up gold silver and bronze with little opposition. Brits are in training all over the world just waiting for the go !

[aehn]

If being "obnoxious on holiday' ever becomes an olympic event than surely we will sweep up gold silver and bronze with little opposition. Brits are in training all over the world just waiting for the go !

Exactly what i was thinking, you guys are way ahead of ALL other nationalities, having said that, of course NOT all of you brits are like that.

Edited August 22, 2008 by aehn

[Spee]

From Russia with riches - and rudeness

Move over loud Americans and towel-brandishing Germans - now there’s a new tourist annoying British holidaymakers, says Max Davidson.

All in all, a pretty silly and ignorant article, not to mention xenophobic as others have suggested.

Let's also admit that making sweeping broad generalizations based upon observations of a relative few is pretty naive and ignorant.

I thought the Austrians establishing a quota based upon nationality to be more than a little ironic. Wasn't this the same country that spawned Hitler and helped him come to power? Can't see myself going there any time soon.

Finally, I don't know what kind of joints the author has been hanging out at, but I suspect they aren't without doors. Take a <deleted>' walk! (preferably off a short pier)

[britmaveric]

Based on my experience Russians have no concept of a queue which is pretty ironic after waiting in line for basic commodities for so many years.

Edited August 22, 2008 by britmaveric

[Maigo6]

I also think that if loutish behaviour was an Olympic Sport, the Brits would clean up with Gold Silver & Bronze.

[britmaveric]

I also think that if loutish behaviour was an Olympic Sport, the Brits would clean up with Gold Silver & Bronze.

doubt it most likely Germans, French, Russians...

[hanno]

After 20+ years in the hotel business, I tend to generalize a little

First of all, all nationalities tend to be a pain as soon as they travel in groups. It is also true that certain nationalities have certain traits (not each and everyone, but enough to give credibility to certain perceived characteristics. Yes, I have seen Germans reserve pool chairs, Israelis being rude to everybody, and Brits drinking more than was good for them).

As for the Russians, I have little grief (4-star hotel I run and guests generally behave appropriately); and certainly not more than with other nationalities. The only frequent complaint is about the (very pretty) ladies showing up for breakfast in string bikinis; funnily enough it is inevitably other women that complain

[cobra]

True enough, new moneyed Russians are everywhere but still can't hold a candle to the skin head German biker wannabe's, vociferous, boisterous, obnoxious,

In the comparison the ugly American is passé and oblivious but still generally well mannered.

[Spee]

I also think that if loutish behaviour was an Olympic Sport, the Brits would clean up with Gold Silver & Bronze.

doubt it most likely Germans, French, Russians...

There's no shortage of <deleted> in the world. I'm sure this would be a multi-multi-multi-national competition with a lot of "10's" being awarded.

[think_too_mut]

For some reason, the Thai government has lifted the visa restrictions on Russians. Now, they are like Australians, Americans...like anyone who can come and stay 1 month.

The question might be: do Russians deserve anything more than a Gulag?

They don't cause many problems, mainly family people. Could be rude bu, hey, UK football tatooed hulligans have been around for much longer than the Russians. And much less of a desirable sight.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

The Brits are no angels........

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/world/europe/24crete.html

[Dave the Dude]

As a Brit I agree with all the damning suggestions about UK hoodlums of the past, but at least we dont (usually) dress up as John Travolta in skin tight white trousers and T shirts. A trip down Walking Street with confirn my observation (If its really needed)

Dave

p.s. I quite like the Yanks and Aussies over here.

Edited August 24, 2008 by Dave the Dude

[mikehunt]

but at least we dont (usually) dress up as John Travolta in skin tight white trousers and T shirts. A trip down Walking Street with confirn my observation (If its really needed)

Dave

10 out of 10, A perfect description.