"i Have A Plan, A Cunning Plan..."

[phaethon]

Hello all. I'm newly enrolled on TV, but have been reading for a while and travelling to LOS several times a year for some years. I thought I would post my plans here in the general forum by way of introduction and since they involve lots of subjects including visas, importing personal effects, language schools, jobs etc. I would appreciate those in-the-know giving my intentions below a once-over and please let me know of any pitfalls/omissions/impossibilities you may spot. There is also a small stack of questions at the end.

I have just quit my university research job here in London and have formulated a plan to spend time, possibly all my remaining time, in LOS. I am a 46-year-old male UK citizen with an MSc, 20-odd years experience in medical research, mostly in human vision, and many publications to my name. I also recently acquired a CELTA and have picked up 6 months of PT teaching experience here in London. I have enough savings to live frugally for a couple of years in BKK, but am aware that just one little health emergency could cut that down significantly.

My plan is to come to Bangkok for a month's holiday and use the time to locate and enrol with a language school for a 180-hrs-over-1-year-ED-visa-eligible-course. (I understand I will have to renew this every 90 days at THB1900 a time.) I am about to contact Walen and Pro-Language for more details, I PM'd Mac of Walen, but he hasn't replied yet - I assume he's busy with the Pattaya project. I shall also bring as much of my belongings with me as I can, including my English teaching materials, and look for suitable accommodation for my return. I already have some gear in storage in BKK.

I'm looking at PR place for accommodation during this first month -any thoughts/alternatives.

Assuming all goes well I will return to London with the necessary letter from the school/ministry and apply for the multi-entry ED visa.

On receipt of this I shall sell up and buy a one-way ticket back to BKK, hopefully arriving on/around 1 November.

Once settled into accommodation and school, I will look around for some work - legal, with work permit (and health plan). As I still have some projects to work on in the UK I may have some income from Internet-based activities and I may be asked to return to the UK for maybe a month at a time once in a while, but this is by no means certain. Although I have limited English teaching experience, I hope my years in academic medical research and my contacts may count for something and land me a job at a university where I would have access to the academic Internet.

I have emailed several enquiries to Thai universities (not for advertised posts), but have received NO responses. I think, therefore, if I am to pursue this I need to make contact in person.

If universities continue to ignore me, I would seek something in the private sector, perhaps working for a reduced rate to clock up experience for a future university post. Anything that will get me a WP and out of the 90-day ED-visa renewal routine. I would however continue with the Thai lessons.

My only restriction is that I don't want to teach children.

So, what am I missing? Anyone ever heard of an ED visa being refused? I'm reasonably presentable, respectable with academic qualifications, so I should be a plausible candidate, right?

If I get a one year ED visa, can I bring over my personal belongings (mostly a large library) duty-free on the strength of that or can it only be done with a shiny work permit or BOI letter?

Does the ED visa run for one-year (with renewals) from the date of entry into LOS or from the date of issue by the embassy? Presumably one has to enter the country within a specified period after issue. Does the letter from the ministry have to be presented to a Thai Embassy for visa within a certain period or is there some flexibility in when the course starts (i.e. can I get the letter and start the course on either november 1 or December 1 depending on how long it takes to settle-up here in the UK)?

What problems might be caused with the ED visa by an extended absence (one or two months)? I assume I will have to time my returns to the UK (if any) so as not to be out of LOS at renewal time.

Can I open a bank account and get an ATM card on an ED visa? I can transfer in, say, quarter of a million baht just for starters.

Are Walen and Pro Language in the same building? (Times Square - I know it well, but have never had to look for language schools before)

They are different companies, aren't they?

If anyone has direct experience of either or both I'd appreciate a frank PM - for or against - to help make up my mind. Also, any other schools I should be looking at...?

Are there any schools that will give you the necessary papers for a 12 month ED but only require payment in advance for , say, three months at a time? (In case I really can't stand the teaching and want to transfer to another school/city - again I WILL continue to study Thai, whether on an ED visa or later on a non-Imm. B with WP.)

Many thanks for your attention, looking forward to your responses.

Cheers,

K.

[Mossfinn]

You might be better off Here Baldrick?

[MKAsok]

That's a lot of questions in one post. With regard to the visa-related ones, I'd urge you to post (maybe not all at once) them in the visa forum, so lopburi can give them a once over...

I'll try and give you some brief answers:

Assuming all goes well I will return to London with the necessary letter from the school/ministry and apply for the multi-entry ED visa.

You don't need to return to London unless you have to. You can get an ED from a neighbouring country.

Anyone ever heard of an ED visa being refused?

Highly unlikely, particularly in your home country with the correct documentation.

If I get a one year ED visa, can I bring over my personal belongings (mostly a large library) duty-free on the strength of that or can it only be done with a shiny work permit or BOI letter?

No idea. Probably best to leave shipping a lot of stuff until you establish you really like it here.

Does the ED visa run for one-year (with renewals) from the date of entry into LOS or from the date of issue by the embassy? Presumably one has to enter the country within a specified period after issue. Does the letter from the ministry have to be presented to a Thai Embassy for visa within a certain period or is there some flexibility in when the course starts (i.e. can I get the letter and start the course on either november 1 or December 1 depending on how long it takes to settle-up here in the UK)?

Multiple entry runs for 1 year from issue. Single entry 3 months. Note: The validity of the visa is not the same as permission to stay stamps. Read around the visa forum if you don't understand this. You will need to present the letter to an Embassy/Consulate within a reasonable period of time. Don't know what that is. Just use your common sense, or if you're that concerned, find the relevant law. I think I left it around a month before I presented the letter without any problems.

What problems might be caused with the ED visa by an extended absence (one or two months)? I assume I will have to time my returns to the UK (if any) so as not to be out of LOS at renewal time.

You won't get a letter from the school to extend the visa. EDIT: More accurately to extend your stay for a further 3 months, not the validity of the visa. Get a Multiple Entry, then you won't have to worry about this.

Can I open a bank account and get an ATM card on an ED visa? I can transfer in, say, quarter of a million baht just for starters.

Open an account at Kasikorn. They're (generally) not concerned with visas or WPs.

Are Walen and Pro Language in the same building? (Times Square - I know it well, but have never had to look for language schools before)

They are different companies, aren't they?

Yes and yes.

Edited August 22, 2008 by MKAsok

[ChueachatsBoy]

Hello all. I'm newly enrolled on TV, but have been reading for a while and travelling to LOS several times a year for some years. I thought I would post my plans here in the general forum by way of introduction and since they involve lots of subjects including visas, importing personal effects, language schools, jobs etc. I would appreciate those in-the-know giving my intentions below a once-over and please let me know of any pitfalls/omissions/impossibilities you may spot. There is also a small stack of questions at the end.

I have just quit my university research job here in London and have formulated a plan to spend time, possibly all my remaining time, in LOS. I am a 46-year-old male UK citizen with an MSc, 20-odd years experience in medical research, mostly in human vision, and many publications to my name. I also recently acquired a CELTA and have picked up 6 months of PT teaching experience here in London. I have enough savings to live frugally for a couple of years in BKK, but am aware that just one little health emergency could cut that down significantly.

My plan is to come to Bangkok for a month's holiday and use the time to locate and enrol with a language school for a 180-hrs-over-1-year-ED-visa-eligible-course. (I understand I will have to renew this every 90 days at THB1900 a time.) I am about to contact Walen and Pro-Language for more details, I PM'd Mac of Walen, but he hasn't replied yet - I assume he's busy with the Pattaya project. I shall also bring as much of my belongings with me as I can, including my English teaching materials, and look for suitable accommodation for my return. I already have some gear in storage in BKK.

I'm looking at PR place for accommodation during this first month -any thoughts/alternatives.

Assuming all goes well I will return to London with the necessary letter from the school/ministry and apply for the multi-entry ED visa.

On receipt of this I shall sell up and buy a one-way ticket back to BKK, hopefully arriving on/around 1 November.

Once settled into accommodation and school, I will look around for some work - legal, with work permit (and health plan). As I still have some projects to work on in the UK I may have some income from Internet-based activities and I may be asked to return to the UK for maybe a month at a time once in a while, but this is by no means certain. Although I have limited English teaching experience, I hope my years in academic medical research and my contacts may count for something and land me a job at a university where I would have access to the academic Internet.

I have emailed several enquiries to Thai universities (not for advertised posts), but have received NO responses. I think, therefore, if I am to pursue this I need to make contact in person.

If universities continue to ignore me, I would seek something in the private sector, perhaps working for a reduced rate to clock up experience for a future university post. Anything that will get me a WP and out of the 90-day ED-visa renewal routine. I would however continue with the Thai lessons.

My only restriction is that I don't want to teach children.

So, what am I missing? Anyone ever heard of an ED visa being refused? I'm reasonably presentable, respectable with academic qualifications, so I should be a plausible candidate, right?

If I get a one year ED visa, can I bring over my personal belongings (mostly a large library) duty-free on the strength of that or can it only be done with a shiny work permit or BOI letter?

Does the ED visa run for one-year (with renewals) from the date of entry into LOS or from the date of issue by the embassy? Presumably one has to enter the country within a specified period after issue. Does the letter from the ministry have to be presented to a Thai Embassy for visa within a certain period or is there some flexibility in when the course starts (i.e. can I get the letter and start the course on either november 1 or December 1 depending on how long it takes to settle-up here in the UK)?

What problems might be caused with the ED visa by an extended absence (one or two months)? I assume I will have to time my returns to the UK (if any) so as not to be out of LOS at renewal time.

Can I open a bank account and get an ATM card on an ED visa? I can transfer in, say, quarter of a million baht just for starters.

Are Walen and Pro Language in the same building? (Times Square - I know it well, but have never had to look for language schools before)

They are different companies, aren't they?

If anyone has direct experience of either or both I'd appreciate a frank PM - for or against - to help make up my mind. Also, any other schools I should be looking at...?

Are there any schools that will give you the necessary papers for a 12 month ED but only require payment in advance for , say, three months at a time? (In case I really can't stand the teaching and want to transfer to another school/city - again I WILL continue to study Thai, whether on an ED visa or later on a non-Imm. B with WP.)

Many thanks for your attention, looking forward to your responses.

Cheers,

K.

Why don't you get a multi-entry Non-Imm.O visa? Also, if you're serious about learning Thai, then stay away from walen school and go for private lessons.

[GuestHouse]

Personally I would have kept my job at your London University and applied for a research exchange to a Thai university.

[phaethon]

Why don't you get a multi-entry Non-Imm.O visa? Also, if you're serious about learning Thai, then stay away from walen school and go for private lessons.

Thanks for asking, I don't seem to fit into the non-immigrant-O categories (no spouse/children, not pensioner/over-50). Is there something else that would qualify me?

Ed visa just seemed easiest. A course light on lessons initially, then I can top-up with privates as required.

Edited August 22, 2008 by phaethon

[phaethon]

That's a lot of questions in one post. With regard to the visa-related ones, I'd urge you to post (maybe not all at once) them in the visa forum, so lopburi can give them a once over...

Thanks, I wanted to give an overview of the scheme with all its interdependant parts to get opinions and, if nothinbg else, what questions to ask...

You don't need to return to London unless you have to. You can get an ED from a neighbouring country.

I know, but I will have to return to clear up several matters, and take a trip to Canada also.

Multiple entry runs for 1 year from issue. Single entry 3 months. Note: The validity of the visa is not the same as permission to stay stamps. Read around the visa forum if you don't understand this. You will need to present the letter to an Embassy/Consulate within a reasonable period of time. Don't know what that is. Just use your common sense, or if you're that concerned, find the relevant law. I think I left it around a month before I presented the letter without any problems.

OK, I'll put that question more specifically over on the visa forum.

You won't get a letter from the school to extend the visa. EDIT: More accurately to extend your stay for a further 3 months, not the validity of the visa. Get a Multiple Entry, then you won't have to worry about this.

Okay, so a multi-entry ED and if I need to skip out for a while, I can come back, re-enrole and get a new extension stamp - i.e. the extension stamps don't have to be continuous and consecutive?

Open an account at Kasikorn. They're (generally) not concerned with visas or WPs.

...

Yes and yes.

Ta and ta.

[ukrules]

Why don't you get a multi-entry Non-Imm.O visa? Also, if you're serious about learning Thai, then stay away from walen school and go for private lessons.

Thanks for asking, I don't seem to fit into the non-immigrant-O categories (no spouse/children, not pensioner/over-50). Is there something else that would qualify me?

Ed visa just seemed easiest. A course light on lessons initially, then I can top-up with privates as required.

Forget about the Ed visa, in England anyone can get the 1 Year Multi entry 'O' visa from the consulate in hull. Download the form, fill it out, pay the 106 pounds including return fee and you will have the visa in your passport within 3 days.

Just put 'visiting friends' on the form for your reason to need the visa. I got one a couple of months ago.

I was confused about this at first as people were saying you need all sorts of documentation, this varies greatly depending on where you get the visa from. Try the Thai embassy in London and they will not give you one unless you have all sorts of additional documentation, go to the consulate and you will have no problems.

[sweetchariot]

As a UK national, you can get a 1 year muti-entry non-o for the purpose of 'visiting friends'. I am in the same boat as you, and am currently on my 3rd non-o with this as the reason. All you have to do is self-certify you have sufficient funds for repatriation if necessary. Send it by post to the Hull consulate, and you will get it back within 3 days.

You do have to exit the country every 90 days, but I think it would be easier in the long run. You can get this to last for 15 months by doing a border run just before expiry, and getting another 90 day stamp.

As for import - you will be liable for duty, purely at the discretion of the Thai authorities from what I understand. I had half a container of mainly household items, and was charged about 10,000 - how they came up with that figure I have no idea.

[phaethon]

OK, thanks for those last two, I'll look into the Hull NI-O visa and take up the subject in the visa section.

I was looking to avoid the visa run scenario, alright running over to the visa office in BKK is no holiday, but leaving the country seems a bit of a bind.

If I change my plan I will edit the original post (thanks to ChueachatsBoy quoting the OP in its entirity , there will always be an original for comparison) and you can watch things evolve

[ChueachatsBoy]

Why don't you get a multi-entry Non-Imm.O visa? Also, if you're serious about learning Thai, then stay away from walen school and go for private lessons.

Thanks for asking, I don't seem to fit into the non-immigrant-O categories (no spouse/children, not pensioner/over-50). Is there something else that would qualify me?

Ed visa just seemed easiest. A course light on lessons initially, then I can top-up with privates as required.

Hey,

Like others have said, if you apply at the Hull consulate, you'll have no problems getting a non-imm-O for the purpose of visiting friends.

I've been doing this for a few years, simply print out the form, fill it out and send it off and you'll get it back within 3 days.

The reason I mentioned about private lesson is because I've had experience with walen school, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. You'd actually be better of learning from books and an audio cd then you would at this school, or like I have already mentioned, private lessons.

[GungaDin]

OK, thanks for those last two, I'll look into the Hull NI-O visa and take up the subject in the visa section.

I was looking to avoid the visa run scenario, alright running over to the visa office in BKK is no holiday, but leaving the country seems a bit of a bind.

If I change my plan I will edit the original post (thanks to ChueachatsBoy quoting the OP in its entirity , there will always be an original for comparison) and you can watch things evolve

The visa run is no big deal, just allow 2000bt for the round trip and a day away. You will love Poipet

15 months is correct with the multi-entry Non-Imm.O visa, just watch your timing.

Kasikorn bank on the cnr of Soi 33 & Sukh is familiar with expats and opening 'savings accounts' , all you need is your passport and 1000bt to deposit.

Don't forget to ask them for a Debit card and Internet Banking services.

Don't leave the UK without Medical & Accident insurance!

Good luck

P.S. "I'm looking at PR place for accommodation during this first month -any thoughts/alternatives." PR ???

Edited August 22, 2008 by GungaDin

[RakJungTorlae]

Ah man this ant very cunning. I thought u where going to dig a tunnel to china or something.

Well good luck anywayz

[phaethon]

PR Place - http://prplacebangkok.com/

But I'm taking this question over to the housing section.

Edited August 22, 2008 by phaethon

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You are more than likely going to be taxed on the belongings you bring here. You are ineligible for any tax exemptions.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

PR Place - http://prplacebangkok.com/

But I'm taking this question over to the housing section.

No airconditioning ?

[wamberal]

Do not go to Thailand at your age unless you have enough in financial assets to support yourself for the rest of your life.

[geriatrickid]

Personally I would have kept my job at your London University and applied for a research exchange to a Thai university.

Or a research project.

You should be aware though many of these projects are seen as work opportunities for Thai doctoral students and freshly minted PhDs. Unless one is sponsored by the research group, the Thais take a mental if farangs are hired for support work that "could" be done by a local.

Maybe you could try teaching english to some of the science grad students. Unless they have had the opportunity to study outside of Thailand, they are held back by their limited knowledge of foreign languages. You cannot truly excel in research when you do not have a command of additional languages, particularly those that dominate a field of research.

[Flatouthruthefog]

OK, thanks for those last two, I'll look into the Hull NI-O visa and take up the subject in the visa section.

I was looking to avoid the visa run scenario, alright running over to the visa office in BKK is no holiday, but leaving the country seems a bit of a bind.

If I change my plan I will edit the original post (thanks to ChueachatsBoy quoting the OP in its entirity , there will always be an original for comparison) and you can watch things evolve

You are certainly getting some good advice here, Baldrick, from a Very comprehensive questionnaire! I only have a few observations which may help.

a) Do use the HULL Consulate in UK by post, or personal visit if you are anywhere near. Nice people, superbly efficient, no hassle. Maybe the best Thai Consulate in the world. Don't bother with the Embassy.

Dr Pat will know better than I, but some 14 years ago you could bring in one shipment of personal belongings duty free AFTER holding a Work Permit for 1 year. But as i recall you then only had one more year to take advantage of this. Maybe I'm out of date?

c) Many, many educational establishments, inc universities (certainly Chiang Mai U) won't give work permits - and they are a government institution!

d) Don't expect ANY responses to postal or e-mail applications, nor much sense on the phone. You are right. Face to face is the only way. Nice aspect here - it's possible to virtually walk in to see a relevant person with no advance appointment.

e) Despite your excellent background, the poster who said don't come here (I think he meant to stay long term) unless you can afford to pay your way the whole period (30+ years?) had a point. If you expect NOT to earn a living wage then you won't be disappointed.

f) Google some academic recruitment agencies with bases in Thailand. I can personally attest to Search Associates here in Chiang Mai - Harry & Margaret Deelman (British). He is the spitting image of a young John Major, but don't let that put you off.

g) You've travelled in Thailand already and I wonder if you've been to Chiang Mai? Fraction of the cost of living in Bkk, all western comforts and an expat community big enough to enable you to choose your own friends. OK, we've had a few shootings lately, but then so has south London.

Good luck!

[haybilly]

Do not go to Thailand at your age unless you have enough in financial assets to support yourself for the rest of your life.

Just what I was going to say--I sincerely hope that your 'savings' are a lot more than can support you for a couple of years--teachers get paid pretty crap wages.

[zorro1]

Ah man this ant very cunning. I thought u where going to dig a tunnel to china or something.

Well good luck anywayz

Darn, you beat me to it I wanted to say that . I did this at the end of the post

[phaethon]

The cultured amongst you, those who made the Baldrick connection with the title, will know that Baldrick's plans were never terribly cunning...

As for the tunnel to China, have you seen the paperwork that requires?

I have the papers for the Non-Imm O, looks like I have to have my flight booked, so will wait awhile.

Flatoutthruthefog: I haven't reached CM yet, limited scuba appeal, but fully intend to make a trip soon, and without regular lessons tying me to BKK once a week, I could take a good look. I know of an international telemedicine project that has been mooted with CMU. Though not directly involved with that, I could make enquiries. I know CM is also cooler and presumably less frantic, what are the visa-runs like from there?

GeriatricKid: I could market my English teaching to quite high levels of medical and scientific coaching for presentations and publications in international media, but I can live for a good while with no income. If I can work, then the funds will go further, especially with some freelance work from abroad. (I run research data/web servers for several international projects that I can administer from anywhere with a decent connection.).

Bringing my stuff over is likely going to have to wait until I have some kind of work permit, if ever.

Thanks for the helpful responses so far...

Cheers,

K.

--

Ken

[sweetchariot]

The cultured amongst you, those who made the Baldrick connection with the title, will know that Baldrick's plans were never terribly cunning...

As for the tunnel to China, have you seen the paperwork that requires?

I have the papers for the Non-Imm O, looks like I have to have my flight booked, so will wait awhile.

"I have a plan so cunning, you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel"

Your non-O will start from the day of issue, so best to wait until about a week before you plan to travel.

[GuestHouse]

46 years old.... get a financial advisor to crunch the numbers on how much you need to put asside for retirement (based on the current Thai Retirement Income Requirements).

Don't let a mid-life crisis turn into a late-life disaster.

Edited August 24, 2008 by GuestHouse

[phaethon]

Thanks for the financial concerns, but I can easily 'waste' a year or even two at this point. Work is more a psychological than financial requirement. If things work out, I'll stay; if not I'll find somewhere/something else.

[phaethon]

Okay, so I can't edit posts more than 30 microseconds old...

Revised plan.

1) Sell the boat, computer and motorcyle (too big for carry-on).

2) Book flight and somewhere to stay for 1 month in first instance (now looking at Rompo Mansions in the boondocks).

3) Apply for Non-Imm O multi-entry from Hull.

4) Stash the library at a friend's house in the UK.

5) Cram as much of my gear as I can, using my Royal Orchid leverage and air miles (probably about 40kg), into a couple of suitcases and turn up at

Suvarnabhumi.

6) Chill for a while, look for non-serviced accomodation. Take Thai lessons.

7) Start to casually look around for some work to occupy me, needn't be highly paid, just put some "English training of Thais " experience on the CV. Maybe contact my old collaborator at Rangsit, etc.

8) Spend some time in Chiang Mai, maybe other towns, see how I like them. Get a feel for the opportunities/competition in the sticks compared with BKK.

9) Review after 9 months and decide whether to make it long-term. Bring gear in on any expenses-paid trips back to the UK and/or low-season flights.

Lets see where that takes me.

K.