Some Thoughts On Humanitarianism

[RY12]

Here are some thoughts on the faults of humanitarianism I hope some fellow thaivisa member could use as argument defenses if they have a similar encounter like I did :

So I was in a restaurant in Ubon with my gf a while back and there were what I believed, by looking at a patch, Peace Corps volunteers at another table talking to a Thai about some village somewhere. I heard about half of what they were saying, but then they said something to the effect of 'at least we don't just come to Isaan for the women!' and made scoffing glances over at my table. Now I've been with my gf for 2 years now and we're basically the same age, so this was a suprise for me... I think he heard me speaking bad English to her so he drew some stereotypical conclusions.

Disregarding the fact that this particular guy was dip$hit who probably just arrived in Thailand , I got to thinking about these humanitarian, idealistic types of people in general, who I encounter a lot here and abroad. Maybe I'm just becoming a selfish evil fiend, but I've really been losing patience with grown adults who are perpetually stirred-up about broad human problems, whether it's global warming, legal justice, abortion (conservatives and liberals), or say poverty (as in Isaan). These people, even though they are often good-hearted folk, seem to think they have a moral upper-hand on business-people like me who just focus on helping our customers in a local area. While some humanitarians realize they're just helping the people in their immediate circle for their own sense of satisfaction, others (like journalists, politicians, or some volunteers) seem to think they're "contributing" to solving some mass problem while the rest of us are respectfully morally inferior. I want to turn that around, and remind everyone that charity and activism, by claiming purposes they can't meet, are often the most offensive:

Let's get real, the vast majority of mass problems are only ever solved by mass measures or mass events... and the vast majority of measures that solve social problems are economic development. Moreover, because these problems are on a mass scale, individual efforts on the issue often warp into nothingness- some mindless accountant in New York who with a keyboard stroke transfers funds to a factory in Khorat probably just did more for Isaan than 2 years of squatting in a village by a peace corps volunteer. On the other hand, maybe the funds eventually bump another factory out of business.... etc. etc, the point is it's like a huge multiplying fractal: -causation in the economy of a mass human population is impossible to trace, and what particular action does good/ does bad is mute.

Even if we assumed it wasn't, or assume that helping a few individuals for a brief period (with a problem that'll probably just come back) is valuable for it's own sake, I'm starting to have some serious problems with people who are hyper-concerned about the 'plight' of impoverished people like in Isaan. I don't want to see anyone suffer, but we need to have some perspective on what's going on here- poverty doesn't equal suffering. Everyone seems forget that there is a real, tangible difference in the personality and emotional structure of those who grew up in a developed, educated world and those in the 3rd world. My girlfriend's grandmother from the backwaters of Surin is not a deeply thoughtful being, and would not break down into an philosophical depression like Aristotle if she became homeless and hungry again. But this is what we in the West imagine happening because are lives are so comfortable. The reality is that humans can adapt, and except for the fact that more of your relatives will die early and you'll be sick more often, a life in poverty isn't going to make you less happy than if you were in the West or Japan (where suicide and depression occurs much more often). The poverty in Isaan is awful for a lot of good people, but there are frankly a lot of true peasants out there that, for whatever reason like lack of education, just don't have a lot going on upstairs, mentally or emotionally.

[bergen]

I would probably agree to most of your post.

I did meet some very nice young volounteers (mostly girls), at two occations recently, and I personelly have had no bad experiences.

Anyway if they where men and not interested in Isaan women.......that indeed does'nt sound good.

If they were rude, I would have gone and talked to them, and not left before they apologized ............................................(or offered me a beer )

[Carib]

They volunteer, so they are needed, that gives them the advantage ( in their minds only) to be arrogant and belittling to anything and and anybody else. Most of them are raised in countries where they are made to believe that the rest of the world depends on those countries.

The bible thumping and political motivated ones are the worst. They don't only volunteer but sell god and their political believes at the same time. Everything should be done the way things are done at home, because that is the way to go ( they think).

Yes, stereotyping and generalising here, I know. But it saves a lot of trouble explaining what I mean. Most of them go flat on their face if the are confronted with other ways, or when they are integrated in different organisations who try to do good, but staying in the same group as they came, they will cling to their values. Difficult for them, as it is difficult for the ones on the other side.

[Dave the Dude]

They volunteer, so they are needed, that gives them the advantage ( in their minds only) to be arrogant and belittling to anything and and anybody else. Most of them are raised in countries where they are made to believe that the rest of the world depends on those countries.

The bible thumping and political motivated ones are the worst. They don't only volunteer but sell god and their political believes at the same time. Everything should be done the way things are done at home, because that is the way to go ( they think).

Yes, stereotyping and generalising here, I know. But it saves a lot of trouble explaining what I mean. Most of them go flat on their face if the are confronted with other ways, or when they are integrated in different organisations who try to do good, but staying in the same group as they came, they will cling to their values. Difficult for them, as it is difficult for the ones on the other side.

Good post Carib , I agree with you.

What really winds me up is why they have to dress in white shirts and a TIE (its frequently +34f out here!!!) ,then cycle round and round cities like some type of mobile vulture Not much else bothers me here in Thailand other than these do-gooding oddballs

and now relax

Dave

[hansnl]

A very good piece, period.

Once in a situation like yours, hearing the stupid remarks about men living in Thailand, my wife decided to interfere.

And when she start interfering, better beware!

She told the "shits" (her words) what she thought about people who presume that Thailand is a undeveloped country.

Then she asked them what good they ever did to the people of Thailand.

And asked them, you really think you are wanted in this country?

You really think the Thai people are not laughing about you when you are out of sight?

You really think you do better as my husband who really helps poor people when and where he can in various ways?

Without being so obvious about it?

Don't you realise that most Farang men take care, directly or indirectly, of a lot of family and others.

And that not all farang men are the same, like not all Thai women are the same.

(with the implied meaning that not all farang men want very young girls and not all Thai women are bad)

And then she concluded, please go away, away from this country, where you do more wrong than good.

Or try to learn not to comment on people in public in a loud voice.

Because you, also being farang, loose huge face!

The thing is, someone else translated her words in Thai/Isan.

When my wife was finished, they applauded, and made wai's to her.

When the translation reached me eventually, I told my wife that indeed, a lot of those people tried to do some good, and yes, indeed, a lot of those people are in it for the kick they get out of it.

[bergen]

They volunteer, so they are needed, that gives them the advantage ( in their minds only) to be arrogant and belittling to anything and and anybody else. Most of them are raised in countries where they are made to believe that the rest of the world depends on those countries.

The bible thumping and political motivated ones are the worst. They don't only volunteer but sell god and their political believes at the same time. Everything should be done the way things are done at home, because that is the way to go ( they think).

Yes, stereotyping and generalising here, I know. But it saves a lot of trouble explaining what I mean. Most of them go flat on their face if the are confronted with other ways, or when they are integrated in different organisations who try to do good, but staying in the same group as they came, they will cling to their values. Difficult for them, as it is difficult for the ones on the other side.

Good post Carib , I agree with you.

What really winds me up is why they have to dress in white shirts and a TIE (its frequently +34f out here!!!) ,then cycle round and round cities like some type of mobile vulture Not much else bothers me here in Thailand other than these do-gooding oddballs

and now relax

Dave

I see we're talking about different volounteers...............Dave you are mentioning the American Mormons, while my experience was with some (in their 20's) women (and a guy) who were helping out with teaching English to young children

[OlRedEyes]

Nice post.

Like most people I know, I try to help where I can when I can. Doesn't make a helluva difference in the grand scheme of things, but collectively it does move the world slightly in what we would perceive as a better direction.

So do these people. (I do not include the religious types in my statement, simply because I think they do more harm overall than good, but that's another series of books).

Not much else we can do to make any difference. For reasonably quick improvement in the lives of most people action on a grand and sweeping scale is necessary, and that simply won't ever happen. It's an evolutionary process, tiny bit by tiny bit.

The problem with creeps like this is they overate their efforts in order to get an ego boost. The remark you overheard was probably not made to just make themselves feel good, but also to ingratiate themselves with the Thai they were speaking to.

Which seems to indicate that they don't do whatever it is they do for the benefit of others, but mainly to make themselves feel good. The actual help they give to others is secondary, if even that.

[mgjackson69]

Seems to me that many of these volunteers come from the same demographic as "professional" protesters...trust fund babies.

Spoiled rich kids who have never worked a day in their life, and sit up on their high horse because they are "doing something for the world". Unlike the rest of us unenlightened peons who just work for a living.

How does one get that job as "professional protester"? And how can these people afford to not have a job?

[feffejonsson]

It seems to me that many of theese western volounteers are not really in Thailand to help anyone. They are merely here to calm their bad conscience of coming from the part of the world being responsible for most poor people´s plight around the world. They are here to impose a western way of thinking whilst treating the locals as ignorant children. They can not grasp the concept that people on the other side of the world have a different way of seeing things and that it´s not a question about right or wrong. It´s just a question about being different.

Me and my wife have an age difference of 10 years. I´m 36 years old she is 26 years old. We have been married for four years. I´m fed up with the looks and comments we get from people. Exclusively westerners, mostly middle aged tourists. So what if I don´t want to be married to a woman from my native country, so what if I don´t want to live with someone nagging me until I lose all my vitality. That is our business, me and my wifes. We are equals and we treat eachother with respect and we are having a good time together. That´s enough for us. When we are staying in Europe it´s even worse with the looks and comments. Especially in the north of Europe.

Frankly I think the european women don´t like the competition and the european men have to agree with their wifes but deep inside they regret that they are not the ones married to a woman from Thailand.

Sorry. A little bit of the subject but I needed to say it!

[Dave the Dude]

Cannot remember the last time I agree with EVERYONE in a post (feffejonsson,mgjackson69&Olredeyes) and as for Hansai, well I have never met you or your wife but I think she is a wonderful lady and I admire her courage/common sense

Dave

[garro]

People can be such shits. I know exactly what the OP is talking about and have seen it many times. Volunteers for a higher good on some important crusade taking time to smugly look down on the mere tourists and ex-pats. What can you do though? I just try and ignore them and get on with my life.

I have benefited a lot in my life from volunteer work and would recommend it to anyone - it is vital to understand though that it is the volunteer who is really getting the benefit. The worst volunteers are the ones that want to be clapped on the back all the time and turn into sanctimonious bores - unfortunately this is most of them.

[grahamhc]

What really winds me up is why they have to dress in white shirts and a TIE (its frequently +34f out here!!!) ,then cycle round and round cities like some type of mobile vulture Not much else bothers me here in Thailand other than these do-gooding oddballs

I was sitting in a crowded noodle shop in Pattaya and turn to a guy on the large table and asked at what school he taught, to which he started to reply, stopped, and asked how I know he was a teacher. I replied "You are the only person in here with a TIE ON"

BACK ON TOPIC

We had a speaker at our club, who was a retired Social Worker from the UK. He had moved to Spain but found it too expensive, so was now trying Thailand. Deciding his Social Worker skills were useful, so he went to Pattaya Police Station cells to see if he could help.

He was almost in tears at the conditions and he tried to explain how we ought to help the prisoners. We had to remind him that we are Guests in Thailand and cannot tell the police what to do. After the meeting, I told he "Go home to England, as if you stay here the way you are going , you will get a nervous breakdown.". I don't know if he followed MY advice!

[mickj88]

Good posts,

Carib though I thought you reply should read " they volunteer so they think they are needed".

There are a lot os small minded morons around I blame it on their up bringing .

My parents have just been to LOS for 2 weeks and did not make any presumtions about Thai-ferang relationships but my mum did comment that there seemed to be alot of older ferang with younger thai girls ( when we went to Phuket/ patong ). I explained that in some instances the girls were actually older than they appear and pointed out that my wife although 26 years old gets asked for ID in the UK as she looks a good 9 or 10 yearsyounger than she is.

My dad then pointed out that there are a large number of bar girls in patong and I addaed with the fact that they provide for their families with monies given by the ferang. She replied saying that she was only making a comment and not judging the girls.

One thing these volunteers dont realise is that the older thai generation are set in their ways , for instance 2 years ago I supplied the funds for the materials to build my inlaws a house. when the house was finished I asked what had happened to the toilet (as marked on the plans), the reply from mother in law to my mrs was " we are putting a Thai toilet in a lean-too outside. I am pretty sure that when Mother in law stays at our house ( 2 indoor loos) that she actually goes home to use the thai toilet.

Some years back wealthy friend moved his aging inlaws from issan ahere they lived in an old wooden house on stilts to a fully renovated and furnished town house, it cost him £24k and thats 5 years ago.After living there for only 3 weeks they gave him the keys and returned to there old house (obviously preffered the floor to the sofa/ bed etc). Its this kind of thing that these peace corp types don't see .