Ignored By Thais At Work

[Samuian]

most of the time it comes down to something simple as, it has been mentioned already: envy, or you said something you are not aware of anymore...

[onethailand]

You guys are all expressing your own opinions of what is rude or not in your home country - so perhaps you should understand that in Thailand, this is NOT considered rude. The Thais are not a rude people, in fact quite the opposite.

Get over it.

[myauq]

Your interest in learning Thai has declined because people don't speak English to you, great logic there

No, my interest in learning Thai has declined because people don't speak to me, either in Thai or English (at work). Initially I tried speaking to them in Thai, but as time went on I just couldn't be bothered. In particular, what annoyed me was that they:

a) are educated and could speak English very well, but

chose to speak Thai to the exclusion of us non-Thais

c) ignored me even when I chose to speak Thai

[Radius]

I don't think these Thai are rude at all. I would feel ashamed of myself not beeing able to speak the language after six months.

People in other countries speaking the language of the forreigner that is there to stay are overly polite.

Nothing wrong with that btw.

When in Rome ..........

[Radius]

c) ignored me even when I chose to speak Thai

It depends a little on the situation, but I agree with you that that is rude.

And I am sorry for assuming you did not make the effort.

But don't stop learning Thai, that is just wrong. Is it possible to find a different group of Thai people to lunch with?

Edited August 25, 2008 by Radius

[madjbs]

Farangs in Thailand are such hypocrits. I would like to see what people would say to a Frenchman in the U.K for example, who requested everyone to speak French at lunch so he could understand better. Or perhaps some indian imigrants who request for everyone to speak Hindi at lunch so they can have an easy chat.

[madjbs]

Are you sure they just can't understand what you are saying in Thai?

[MrHammer]

most of the time it comes down to something simple as, it has been mentioned already: envy, or you said something you are not aware of anymore...

maybe he didnt wai one of them enough correctly or break some other stupid middle age rule. This kind of behaviour is whats keeping Thailand from growing and is why i would never work for a thai or work in a company with thai work ethics. I could work with thais no problem if the overall vibe was international.

[myauq]

Farangs in Thailand are such hypocrits. I would like to see what people would say to a Frenchman in the U.K for example, who requested everyone to speak French at lunch so he could understand better. Or perhaps some indian imigrants who request for everyone to speak Hindi at lunch so they can have an easy chat.

In a company where we have clients from Japan, Singapore, China, Australia, America, Germany, etc, and these people liaise with them because they have such good English skills...?

[MrHammer]

Farangs in Thailand are such hypocrits. I would like to see what people would say to a Frenchman in the U.K for example, who requested everyone to speak French at lunch so he could understand better. Or perhaps some indian imigrants who request for everyone to speak Hindi at lunch so they can have an easy chat.

In a company where we have clients from Japan, Singapore, China, Australia, America, Germany, etc, and these people liaise with them because they have such good English skills...?

Give it up, if they dont get it by now they wont. Its rude behaviour one way or another.

Let me give you an example, if some of my friends or coworkers were to speak their own language around foreigners they would excuses themselves and say that they would speak their language for a while, so the person would not feel they are talking about them or excluding. I think this is perfectly normal behaviour if youre somewhat adjusted socially.

My guess is it comes down to inferiority complex. The thais or others that insist on speaking their own language, is that they feel resentment, envy, and challenged by foreigners so they grab whatever little straw they have to make them feel superior, in this case speaking thai. And thats bad beahviour and should not be tolerated.

[teacup]

It's difficult being the new kid on the block, isn’t it?

If you are the new kid on the block, then you got to make the first move and repeatedly, unless you’re Bie or Rain, no thais will throw themselves at you first!!!

However the fact of life is….it’s not going to be that easy breaking into a group of people who already know and are comfortable with each other, thai or not and anywhere in the world over….esp if you look different and are from different culture. If you want to join them, then be a good listener. Listen to what are popular topics among them - foods, celebs, soaps dramas etc. Even if it's not your interest subjects. After a while you may offer an opinion. Don't worry it's the same for everyone in a new job and thailand is not so much different, and I’m sure once you can speak thai more fluently, things will be better.

Remember you’re in Thailand, and the first official language of most conversations is thai. So don’t expect the thais will bend over to you in English first.

The same things should be expected to happen back in your country for any immigrants also.

Edited August 25, 2008 by teacup

[onethailand]

If they were going to be rude to you, they would not invite you in the first place. That IS considered a bit rude.

Do also keep in mind that you have another farang to speak to. If you were the only farang at the table with no one to talk to, they would probably make a bit more effort to try and include you.

It is not rude to decline an invitation - so if you don't feel comfortable sitting with them, then don't.

Edited August 25, 2008 by onethailand

[bernie66]

Yes, it offends them that you want to live in thier country and not learn thier language! Same as every country in the world.

It is not there place to speak English for you and they probably feel that they would be doing you an injustice by not taking every opportunity to help you to learn Thai. Thus, they are speaking the language you need to learn because you are working for a Thai company. Weather they can speak English or not is not relavent. They are not helping you communicate with the non English speaking workers by speaking English for you. I work with many people from different nations and because it is an American company I work for it is company policy that everyone speak English in the workplace. And they are corrected constantly even though English speaking people are the minority here. I am assuming you are white and find your situation quite ironic seeing how white societies are the most prejudice, arrogant, and rude of all. Well with the exception of Arabian ones of course.

Lets me ask you, if you were back in your country and 2 ugly, goofy, or fat Chinese guy’s who could not speak English were working in your office. Would you learn little phrases of pointless conversation in Chinese to make them feel more comfortable about being around you? Or would you ask yourself why the hel_l did they hire them if they cannot speak English? Would you not laugh when your coworkers whose ass you kiss on a daily basis made jokes about them or mocked them for the way they try to speak English? When you were a child on the playground and all the other pretty children were picking on the awkward or different looking children did you go over to comfort them to make them feel better? Why should they give a crap about you? If this bothers you so much then you should spend every waking moment studying Thai.

I am married and have been living in Bangkok for 4 years and to my wife’s thorough disgust I don’t speak a lick of Thai. I love my extended family and they always show me a great amount of love but it offends them that I have not learned their language. The Thai people as a whole as compared to the other societies that infest areas of the planet like cock roaches are by far an incredible people. They are a compassionate and warm people. They are extremely proud but humble at the same time. They do not judge people on their appearance less it is one of un-cleanliness. Their social circles and groups are far more diverse than any white society. So my point is your or concerns about them being prejudice or uncompassionate I find kind of silly to say the least. Maybe in your country you were the popular one or the life of the party and now your just another goofy shmuck in an office where you don’t fit in. If you want to understand them then take a minute and look at yourself. Imagine black is white and you’re the majority. Your back in your country. You’re climbing a social ladder in your element. You’re competing on a day to day basis for the welfare of your children. Are you really going to tell us that you are going to spend any time caring about the two ugly, goofy, or fat Chinese guys who don’t speak a lick of English in the back corner of your office?

Edited August 25, 2008 by bernie66

[toybits]

I agree that the Thais are not being rude. In fact, the are doing exactly what they are expected to do which is to invite you even if they do not mean to. You are not really expected to accept their invitation and if you do, you should be well equipped with the tools necessary for carrying on a conversation with them in a language of THEIR preference - Not Yours.

So the onus is on you to learn to speak in Thai - no matter how broken it is. If you don't understand their reply, then just play dumb and give them your most absurd smile.

No they are not beeing rude.

The OP is beeing rude by not learning the language.

And now he is even avoiding them.

And you eat with them every day, and today the boss sees you without them. Offcourse he askes where they are. Perfectly normal thing to wonder about.

Edited August 25, 2008 by toybits

[Ulysses G.]

Are you really going to tell us that you are going to spend any time caring about the two ugly, goofy, or fat Chinese guys who don’t speak a lick of English in the back corner of your office?

You rather give them a good kicking and then stuff their heads in the toilet. ADMIT IT!

[madjbs]

My guess is it comes down to inferiority complex. The thais or others that insist on speaking their own language, is that they feel resentment, envy, and challenged by foreigners so they grab whatever little straw they have to make them feel superior, in this case speaking thai. And thats bad beahviour and should not be tolerated.

My guess is that is has more to do with the superiority that a lot of foreigners feel they have over Thai people. We are better, our language is better, they should bow to our requests, we shouldn't have to put up with their culture....

[MrHammer]

It's difficult being the new kid on the block, isn't it?

If you are the new kid on the block, then you got to make the first move and repeatedly, unless you're Bie or Rain, no thais will throw themselves at you first!!!

However the fact of life is….it's not going to be that easy breaking into a group of people who already know and are comfortable with each other, thai or not and anywhere in the world over….esp if you look different and are from different culture. If you want to join them, then be a good listener. Listen to what are popular topics among them - foods, celebs, soaps dramas etc. Even if it's not your interest subjects. After a while you may offer an opinion. Don't worry it's the same for everyone in a new job and thailand is not so much different, and I'm sure once you can speak thai more fluently, things will be better.

The same things should be expected to happen back in your country for any immigrants also.

teacup, i dont think the issue here is being the new kid on the block. Inviting new coworkers to lunch is common all over the world.

The difference is, most places coworkers would make an INITIAL effort to include the new kid into to the group. If that person doesnt click then ok, they wont be a part of that group.

But most people i know would be interested in talking to new coworkers, especially if theyre foreign.

Lets say you were a coworker in my firm in europe. I GUARANTEE you people would be all over you, asking questions about you or Thailand and how youre doing, what you think of the country etc?

I would think an educated thai girl abroad would be quite popular at the workplace

Btw. this is my experiemce with thais also when i studied here, very friendly and interested and always speaking english, so i put it down to personal problems between the op and the coworkers.

[mr_hippo]

Ignored by Thais at work and also by some ThaiVisa members - next thread, please!

[myauq]

It's difficult being the new kid on the block, isn't it?

If you are the new kid on the block, then you got to make the first move and repeatedly, unless you're Bie or Rain, no thais will throw themselves at you first!!!

However the fact of life is….it's not going to be that easy breaking into a group of people who already know and are comfortable with each other, thai or not and anywhere in the world over….esp if you look different and are from different culture. If you want to join them, then be a good listener. Listen to what are popular topics among them - foods, celebs, soaps dramas etc. Even if it's not your interest subjects. After a while you may offer an opinion. Don't worry it's the same for everyone in a new job and thailand is not so much different, and I'm sure once you can speak thai more fluently, things will be better.

Remember you're in Thailand, and the first official language of most conversations is thai. So don't expect the thais will bend over to you in English first.

The same things should be expected to happen back in your country for any immigrants also.

actually, after one month of being here they hired two new thais - they are part of the group! they are newer than me.

[MrHammer]

My guess is it comes down to inferiority complex. The thais or others that insist on speaking their own language, is that they feel resentment, envy, and challenged by foreigners so they grab whatever little straw they have to make them feel superior, in this case speaking thai. And thats bad beahviour and should not be tolerated.

My guess is that is has more to do with the superiority that a lot of foreigners feel they have over Thai people. We are better, our language is better, they should bow to our requests, we shouldn't have to put up with their culture....

You obviously didnt read my post. I gave you an example of how in another nationalistic and closed country people would ALWAYS speak english in the workplace when foreigners were there. Western people generally take pride in being international. MANY thais do also, so i bet this is really about something else, basicly they dont like the OP, if justified or not and he should start hanging with the farangs or get a job for a farang or an international firm were people know how to behave appropiatly.

[toybits]

A common form of greeting by the Chinese is "Have you eaten?" This is said in the same context as "Yo Joe! How's you doin?" The Chinese ask "Have you eaten?" because they believe it is difficult to have a proper conversation when one tank is empty. On the other hand, you are not really expected to accept the invitation.

When you ask a Japanese if they will honor a contract, sometimes, they answer say Yes! When in fact they won't. This is a cultural shock you are experience. The longer you stay here, the easier it will be for you.

Some of the comments from other farangs on this forum may just add fuel to the fire by confirming your preconceived ideas about Thais. I hope this does not happen to you.

[teacup]

It's difficult being the new kid on the block, isn't it?

If you are the new kid on the block, then you got to make the first move and repeatedly, unless you're Bie or Rain, no thais will throw themselves at you first!!!

However the fact of life is….it's not going to be that easy breaking into a group of people who already know and are comfortable with each other, thai or not and anywhere in the world over….esp if you look different and are from different culture. If you want to join them, then be a good listener. Listen to what are popular topics among them - foods, celebs, soaps dramas etc. Even if it's not your interest subjects. After a while you may offer an opinion. Don't worry it's the same for everyone in a new job and thailand is not so much different, and I'm sure once you can speak thai more fluently, things will be better.

The same things should be expected to happen back in your country for any immigrants also.

teacup, i dont think the issue here is being the new kid on the block. Inviting new coworkers to lunch is common all over the world.

The difference is, most places coworkers would make an INITIAL effort to include the new kid into to the group. If that person doesnt click then ok, they wont be a part of that group.

Appearently not this group, as you can see

But most people i know would be interested in talking to new coworkers, especially if theyre foreign.

Lets say you were a coworker in my firm in europe. I GUARANTEE you people would be all over you, asking questions about you or Thailand and how youre doing, what you think of the country etc?

What if I can't speak your language? Do you think how long your interests will be on me?

[myauq]

A common form of greeting by the Chinese is "Have you eaten?" This is said in the same context as "Yo Joe! How's you doin?" The Chinese ask "Have you eaten?" because they believe it is difficult to have a proper conversation when one tank is empty. On the other hand, you are not really expected to accept the invitation.

When you ask a Japanese if they will honor a contract, sometimes, they answer say Yes! When in fact they won't. This is a cultural shock you are experience. The longer you stay here, the easier it will be for you.

Some of the comments from other farangs on this forum may just add fuel to the fire by confirming your preconceived ideas about Thais. I hope this does not happen to you.

this, and a number of other reasons to do with managment, have made me cross-off thai companies as potential future employers on my job list.

[cloudhopper]

A very interesting thread. I agree that it's important to learn the local language if one wants to live or especially work here. But after 8 years here, I have all but given up making the effort. Why? It has been a very discouraging experience. When I lived in California I traveled quite a bit through Latin America and enjoyed practicing my limited Spanish skills because the natives always seemed happy that I was attempting to speak their language. Even when I badly mispronounced a word or totally screwed up the grammar I was always corrected in an enthusiastic way and encouraged to continue. Here I have found that my modest skills are met with blank stares or even veiled disgust when I cannot speak something PERFECTLY. I get the feeling that most Thais would prefer I not even make the attempt. I'd be interested to know if others have experienced this.

[teacup]

It's difficult being the new kid on the block, isn't it?

If you are the new kid on the block, then you got to make the first move and repeatedly, unless you're Bie or Rain, no thais will throw themselves at you first!!!

However the fact of life is….it's not going to be that easy breaking into a group of people who already know and are comfortable with each other, thai or not and anywhere in the world over….esp if you look different and are from different culture. If you want to join them, then be a good listener. Listen to what are popular topics among them - foods, celebs, soaps dramas etc. Even if it's not your interest subjects. After a while you may offer an opinion. Don't worry it's the same for everyone in a new job and thailand is not so much different, and I'm sure once you can speak thai more fluently, things will be better.

Remember you're in Thailand, and the first official language of most conversations is thai. So don't expect the thais will bend over to you in English first.

The same things should be expected to happen back in your country for any immigrants also.

actually, after one month of being here they hired two new thais - they are part of the group! they are newer than me.

You have your work cut out there. Why?

Because like I said eariler, ......you look different, are from different culture, and don't speak "the language of the majority" here!!

It's just a part of life here, esp the circles outside the entertainment and tourism industry,.....you will not get too many thais to be enthusiastically all over you, sorry

Edited August 25, 2008 by teacup

[toybits]

Well, I'm sorry for you because you missed an opportunity to learn how Thais work. Don't go off blaming your Thai co-workers for your inability to communicate properly with them.

The Chinese said that "If you point a finger at anyone, remember that three fingers point back at you."

this, and a number of other reasons to do with managment, have made me cross-off thai companies as potential future employers on my job list.

[Loaded]

I've found in general that Thai men only want to talk when they want something - a loan, a favour, promotion, time off etc. After my first year here I realised this and made the decision not to speak to them either. The conversations were always strained and boring anyway.

I don't care whether a Thai female is after something when she speaks to me as I am definitely after something if I speak to her.

[MrHammer]

But most people i know would be interested in talking to new coworkers, especially if theyre foreign.

Lets say you were a coworker in my firm in europe. I GUARANTEE you people would be all over you, asking questions about you or Thailand and how youre doing, what you think of the country etc?

What if I can't speak your language? Do you think how long your interests will be on me?

Everyone speaks english where i come from as a second language, in my country, a person with education, and english, could work a lifetime not speaking the language and have no problems. You could socially allright also. It would only be a problem if you could only speak arabic for example, as many immigrants in europe.

As long as you can speak english youre fine..

[sylviex]

I have had the same experience, in Thailand and other Asian countries (not to say I know if this behaviour is exclusive to Asia, of course).

I think, apart from the assorted factors others have mentioned, it is simply very difficult for someone to understand just how excluded you feel.

You can begin to feel terribly isolated and frustrated when the others appear not to even register your presence and talk "across" you, either at lunch or in the office. You work and eat with these people every day. Not understanding much of their language, you observe them very closely and learn about them through their habits, actions and other means. You want to communicate with them and be part of the small (even trivial) interactions that create ties between workers and make the daily grind more bearable. Nothing worse than the whole office bursting into laughter at some shared joke and you sitting in silence ! (And this isolation may continue in your life outside the office. When working in a new place, we often hope our co-workers will become our first friends -- there may well be different cultural expectations about this.)

The locals don't notice because their own needs are fulfilled.

From time to time, a more observant or sensitive soul will become aware of this problem and take you under their wing. You will sometimes learn that this person has, themselves, experienced the same isolation when working in a foreign setting. They have been sensitised to the issue, in other words.

People from more multi-cultural countries might tend to be more alert to this issue, too.

As more and more of us work in multi-cultural settings, this issue will need to be handled with more care.

Also, remember that in Asian cultures, one's close friendships are often formed at school/in early life. They, and family, form the inner circle of contacts. It's not so common to bring someone into this intimate circle in later life, especially a foreigner.

Finally, remember that you may be just the next in a long line of foreigners who have come and gone at your workplace. The workers may feel it's not worth investing too much effort in getting to know you, as you'll probably move on after a year or so.

[think_too_mut]

But most people i know would be interested in talking to new coworkers, especially if theyre foreign.

Lets say you were a coworker in my firm in europe. I GUARANTEE you people would be all over you, asking questions about you or Thailand and how youre doing, what you think of the country etc?

What if I can't speak your language? Do you think how long your interests will be on me?

Everyone speaks english where i come from as a second language, in my country, a person with education, and english, could work a lifetime not speaking the language and have no problems. You could socially allright also. It would only be a problem if you could only speak arabic for example, as many immigrants in europe.

As long as you can speak english youre fine..

That's how I was working (as a programmer) in Norway for 1 year with no need or expectation to learn any Norwegian. I did, for my own fun but no any pressure or real need. I don't remember a person I came in touch with who could not speak English.

Same in Papua New Guinea where they have 730 languages mutually incomprehensible but people (at least) I had to deal with could speak English.