Ignored By Thais At Work

[mr_hippo]

You are accepted as what? As a nice farang, with whom it is sanuk to go out? Or as someone equal to a Thai person in all matters of daily life?

There are only a few farangs, who are like that. These farangs live exactly like Thais. They are mutated into Thai. And they prefer to associate with Thais more than with farangs. That is totally alright. It is up to them.

All the other farangs are seen as "farangs" by Thais, because the way of thinking and doing is different to the Thai way. It's simple.

I am accepted as me - Mr Hippo. Yes, we accept that we have different passports, different skin tones and different cultures.

Am I equal to a Thai person in all matters of daily life? Yes, we all need money, food, shelter and the toilet.

"They are mutated into Thai" and that sentence tells me a lot about your lack of intelligence, xenophobia and your massive inferiority complex.

[myauq]

i can appreciate wanting to learn the language and about the culture and people. they are very noble and worthwhile pursuits. seriously. i can understand wanting to feel accepted too, in social situations. but i also feel that there are very many situations in countries like thailand where farang/ black/ burmese/ indian/ karen/ outsider will NEVER be included and treated like a native Thai by other Thai people.

sometimes we might be treated better, sometimes worse. we may be accepted by small groups, amongst close friends or family, but i think we should give up on the fantasy that anyone who is not Thai will be accepted in this society. there are just too many cultural, political, legal and social barriers to that happening.

[onethailand]

Let's face it - the OP didn't come here for advice - all he wants to do is argue the toss.

I vote TROLL.

Pretty liberal, there, with the moniker "TROLL" methinks. (Fault of logic: "Poisoning the Well").

A forum is a place where you should be able to argue anything: devil's advocate, pros & cons.

So what's stuck in your craw? Just a desire to flame?

OP's first post:

Every day our Thai colleagues go for lunch, asking us to join them. Of course, that's nice. Sometimes we eat at the office cafeteria, and other times we go outside to shops or restaurants around the place. Each time we *always* sit in the same group. I found it strange at first, but now I can see they are just more comfortable socialising with those of the same work 'status'.

Anyway, on this particular table there are about 5-8 of us at any particular time. What I find completely strange is that none of these people - my colleagues that is - have made an attempt to talk to us farangs. They just chatter away in Thai. This has been going on for like 6 months now!

OP's last post:

sometimes we might be treated better, sometimes worse. we may be accepted by small groups, amongst close friends or family, but i think we should give up on the fantasy that anyone who is not Thai will be accepted in this society. there are just too many cultural, political, legal and social barriers to that happening.

We've gone from a lunchtime dilemma to a condemnation of Thais. In between, the OP has not bothered to listen to a lot of the reasonable advice given by others, preferring instead to continue to stir the pot.

From Wikipedia:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

I'm not flaming at all. I am pointing out what I believe to be fact.

[myauq]

Let's face it - the OP didn't come here for advice - all he wants to do is argue the toss.

I vote TROLL.

Pretty liberal, there, with the moniker "TROLL" methinks. (Fault of logic: "Poisoning the Well").

A forum is a place where you should be able to argue anything: devil's advocate, pros & cons.

So what's stuck in your craw? Just a desire to flame?

OP's first post:

Every day our Thai colleagues go for lunch, asking us to join them. Of course, that's nice. Sometimes we eat at the office cafeteria, and other times we go outside to shops or restaurants around the place. Each time we *always* sit in the same group. I found it strange at first, but now I can see they are just more comfortable socialising with those of the same work 'status'.

Anyway, on this particular table there are about 5-8 of us at any particular time. What I find completely strange is that none of these people - my colleagues that is - have made an attempt to talk to us farangs. They just chatter away in Thai. This has been going on for like 6 months now!

OP's last post:

sometimes we might be treated better, sometimes worse. we may be accepted by small groups, amongst close friends or family, but i think we should give up on the fantasy that anyone who is not Thai will be accepted in this society. there are just too many cultural, political, legal and social barriers to that happening.

We've gone from a lunchtime dilemma to a condemnation of Thais. In between, the OP has not bothered to listen to a lot of the reasonable advice given by others, preferring instead to continue to stir the pot.

From Wikipedia:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

I'm not flaming at all. I am pointing out what I believe to be fact.

that was a direct response to some of the last few posts about being accepted as thai.

the implications were that i wasn't bothering to make the effort, so if that makes me a troll, whilst i reflect upon my daily interactions with colleagues at work and continue to post, then so be it.

i will respond only to the more well-thought-out comments from now on (this one being the exception).

[onethailand]

You had a response from steveromagnino - who made a lot of good points from a half-Thai perspective. Yet all you did was to respond to the fact that all of your colleagues were Buddhist - and thus they are automatically interested in discussion of religion - and that you were a monk.

Sylviex made some decent points as well - yet these too seem to have been ignored.

It appears that you are only interested in getting support for your views and not interested in listening - or considering - some of the other good points brought up in relation to your OP.

So how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

[myauq]

You had a response from steveromagnino - who made a lot of good points from a half-Thai perspective. Yet all you did was to respond to the fact that all of your colleagues were Buddhist - and thus they are automatically interested in discussion of religion - and that you were a monk.

Sylviex made some decent points as well - yet these too seem to have been ignored.

It appears that you are only interested in getting support for your views and not interested in listening - or considering - some of the other good points brought up in relation to your OP.

So how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

why does being 'half-thai' give anyone more or less authority on the issue?

[onethailand]

See what I mean? You're here to argue, not to listen.

Does it not occur to you that he might have a better perspective on BOTH sides of the fence?

[jdinasia]

i don't care if they respect me or not, worship the ground i walk on or are secretly twisted-up with envy and rage because of me.

all i am concerned about (more interested in really) is having the respect i show for them returned in kind. that's all. even if it is just a small amount, for five minutes every week. not much to ask for that.

if i was a complete p@#(k to them i would, of course, expect to be ignored and not accepted. but when i have exhausted every means of effort, tried to listen, be patient and understanding, complimented, feigned interest, sat there day in and day out, waiting for - even just the smallest amount of - courtesy to be returned, i don't know there is much else i can do.

it's their problem, not mine. but i don't know how they are going to see that, in every other part of the world, what they're doing is quite rude. like i said before, i think they realise this. i can see their discomfort, but they're not strong enough to break out of their discomfort zones.

oh well

time for lunch by myself again

apparently you want far more than "for 5 minutes every week"

These are your coworkers and not your friends. They fill their social obligations with you. It isn't their problem as obviously they are content with the situation as it stands. It is your problem.

Get in some decent Thai classes and join in ... or don't and stop whining about it.

I associate with Thai people that are friends or random folks, I understand Thai pretty well and can make myself understood. When a group of people are together where there are varying degrees of English skill They speak Thai and I contribute mostly in English, as I rarely have to ask for clarification there just isn't an issue and if there is a member of the group that cannot keep up with my English responses, there is always someone that can help them understand (or I usually can in Thai as well). Why go through all this? because conversations in stuttering broken English or Thai get boring and bothersome.

[steveromagnino]

You had a response from steveromagnino - who made a lot of good points from a half-Thai perspective. Yet all you did was to respond to the fact that all of your colleagues were Buddhist - and thus they are automatically interested in discussion of religion - and that you were a monk.

why does being 'half-thai' give anyone more or less authority on the issue?

You called me out and implied I was some sort of farang try hard.

Being that I am equally Thai and farang, I called you out on that.

And as expected, you now seek to discredit the source rather than the points made.

As a Farang I would say:

It is patently obvious to everyone else in the thread that had this been anywhere else in the world, you probably would not have been invited in the first place, and had you been invited once or twice, that invitation would have been rescinded a long time ago if your in person conversation and listening skills are anything like your comprehension in this thread.

Your idea that somehow people 'owe you' the time to listen to your probably inane and boring stories on a variety of questionable subjects leaves me most puzzled as to whether there has been anyone in the course of your life that has actually enjoyed sitting and eating lunch with you. The fact that you seem unable to use this time to learn Thai by listening, yet insist on informing us of your prowess in other Asian languages, puzzles most as it seems you are looking for reasons (as do many disgruntled unhappy people) to blame others for your lack of interest in learning Thai, and subsequent expectation that people should speak english for your benefit simply because they can. Fundamental attribution error I think it is called; know thyself, as someone wiser than me once said (and probably it was some farang bloke too)

Of course....being not really farang either I wonder whether I have the authority to say this?

So....as a Thai I would say:

Mai benrai, I am sure you can find more people to eat with, Thai people enjoy spending time with farang, it gives them a chance to practise their engrish, and a chance for you to learn some Thai.

Good luck for what you decide :-)

Guess which approach is more polite? I think.....farang style essay.

[myauq]

firstly, sorry for offending anyone.

let me say that the forum has been useful to some extent. i've decided to take some of the advice given, and not bother too much with my colleagues. i have started spending more time with some of the other thais around the place at lunch time, those who are more considerate and interesting, even though - paradoxically - their exists more of a language barrier between us.

i will reiterate - i don't think they are being rude. in fact, sometimes we exchange a tacit smile when it's time for departure. but i still find it strange that, considering the line of work we are all in and the high level of their english skills, that they still haven't made the effort in the same way i have with them.

[aehn]

here's the irony...

the colleagues i am working with who are all in middle-level positions, and with whom i have been encouraged to take up a mentorship role with, find it the most difficult to communicate with me. but they all have very good english skills, and thus the means to do so.

besides them there are cleaners and secretaries (obviously much lower in the system) at my work. the secretaries and cleaners greet me with smiles and small chat every single day. as a result, i don't find it more natural to repay their friendliness by chatting and spending time with them. no problems there.

so, these people with whom i have less in common, and who have less communicative ability to interact with me, are friendlier and make more effort to help and show their goodwill. i respond to them in kind.

.....

Its not an irony, that is usually how it works everywhere, its universal human common behavior.

Sorry, but no, it is not "universal common behaviour".

A number of examples have already been given in this thread to contradict such a theory.

The higher up in the "status" rank, (rich, uptight "important" people, celebrities, "high class" rich people, "important educated people", models etc), the more likely it is that you will run into people who are NOT willing to pay you a lot of attention, no difference if you are in Rome or in Bangkok.

Edited August 26, 2008 by aehn

[aehn]

firstly, sorry for offending anyone.

let me say that the forum has been useful to some extent. i've decided to take some of the advice given, and not bother too much with my colleagues. i have started spending more time with some of the other thais around the place at lunch time, those who are more considerate and interesting, even though - paradoxically - their exists more of a language barrier between us.

It is not paradoxically, it is the same as everywhere, you are simply not that exotic to them so they might not fall over each other to learn more about you, but the people who are low educated, cant speak a word of english, to them you are very exotic.

And why dont the people who do know farangs well choose to not interact with you? It might simply be because they will gonna have to make great effort to speak english all day, and during lunch time, the see a great opportunity to relax and chill with their peers in the language they feel most comfortable using.

Edited August 26, 2008 by aehn

[aehn]

Thais do not accept farangs as someone equal to them. If you work in the same company they will be polite and respect you, but that's it.

Exactly what i notice working in Thailand with Farangs, although a lot of my farang friends are polite and "respect" the thai friends at work, most farangs look down on thais.

Just take a look at this forum, it will give you a hint, hel_l, just take a look in this thread...

yeah most farang want thais to worship the ground they walk and do the whole "wow you come from england that is great manchester united is #1 i am so happy for meet you can you please come to my home to pleasure my wife and daughter as i worship you mr white man" thing

It seems from this you and your pal lifesrandom have a chip on your shoulders about westeners. A little jealous maybe?

Well as a westerner myself i am not sure what to be jelous about...

[steveromagnino]

Well as a westerner myself i am not sure what to be jelous about...

You arms are pretty skinny in that avatar, maybe that';s the cause of low self esteem; you need to pump some iron with our resident hunk The Don.

[klikster]

I have noticed that *sometimes*, *some* Thais seem to get a little "possessive" about their culture.

"Sometimes"? A little "possessive"?

Don't you remember a few years back when the government was running the TV commercials. "Don't let farangs tell you how to smile, dance, cook, etc, etc."?

It's a national obsession. One government bigwig wanted to make it illegal to teach outsiders Muay Thai.

[aehn]

Well as a westerner myself i am not sure what to be jelous about...

You arms are pretty skinny in that avatar, maybe that';s the cause of low self esteem; you need to pump some iron with our resident hunk The Don.

nah, that picture was taken like 2 years ago, now my biceps are way bigger!

[sylviex]

If we always decided to ignore or exclude a person who does not superficially "appeal" / have obvious "common interests" or is not immediately easy to communicate with, we'd miss many interesting and valuable relationships in life -- possibly even the most interesting and valuable. Open mindedness and receptiveness to difference are going to be more and more vital in the future. Some cultures need to develop these traits more than others.

Good interaction between peers is important to a well-functioning workplace and reflects, to some extent, the health or otherwise of the workplace culture. More attention needs to be paid to this aspect of the multi-cultural workplace.

Lunch and other social settings with colleagues aside, over the years I have endured numerous meetings, seminars and other directly work-related activities where only a show was made of including me and other foreigners. This is a mindset that will definitely not serve those employers well in the future.

[myauq]

being ignored by my colleagues at work has given me more resolve in deciding not to work for another thai company again.

many of the posters who have worked with thai colleagues, in business and education, seem to suggest that this social ineptitude is quite common in thai professional life.

[steveromagnino]

being ignored by my colleagues at work has given me more resolve in deciding not to work for another thai company again.

many of the posters who have worked with thai colleagues, in business and education, seem to suggest that this social ineptitude is quite common in thai professional life.

just so we are clear, I am not one of them ;-)

I doubt you would find much difference working with Thai people in any company, Thai or western owned, if the people are of a similar level (education, management/staff, etc).

Lunch is lunch.

[onethailand]

and just so we are clear, I said that the Thais do not necessarily consider this bad manners, and I certainly do not agree that this is social ineptitude. If you were the only farang at lunch, however, then I might agree that this is a bit impolite.

[hamishgillan]

It happeded to us before when we were working at Suan Kularb. Just bad luck I suppose cos the thai teachers at the provincial schools were top dollar...

[aehn]

being ignored by my colleagues at work has given me more resolve in deciding not to work for another thai company again.

many of the posters who have worked with thai colleagues, in business and education, seem to suggest that this social ineptitude is quite common in thai professional life.

yes, unfortunately it is the same everywhere, you go to work in Denmark and they are gonna speak danish, you go to France, and they are definitely gonna speak french, etc...

[OxfordWill]

Here's my take..These lunch situations are a opportunity for Thais to reinforce and get up to date on the office and friend hierarchies and relationships, the practice of which makes most Thais feel very comfortable. Since you dont fit into their hierarchy in any particular way, youre not automatically included. By the way its not so much what they are saying which is important but how they are saying it to one another.

if they speak English all day this will mean they value this opportunity at lunch all the more, and really you are just getting in the way. However, they would feel distinctly uncomfortable if they did not invite you to join. Theyre not really trying to be friendly they are just acting in the manner that they are accustomed to. I mean, its not to be taken as a good sign that they invite you to lunch. Nor a bad sign. It doesnt mean anything since they are Thai and that is what we would expect a Thai to do.

You should spend every waking moment available learning Thai, then simply force the issue. thats what I did and it improved things greatly.

incidentally, welcome to culture shock. Not as fun as the "culture shock" in less different countries to our own, is it. Your more recent posts (to the OP) are bordering on ethnocentrism.. respect returned? Forget about your concept of respect and re learn the concept as it applies in Thailand.

Edited August 27, 2008 by OxfordWill

[Maigo6]

I can't be bothered to read the Original post, let alone all the responses.

Going by the title of the Topic, I will add this.

Farangs think they are so superior, I would ignore them too. ( As indeed I do ).

Edited August 27, 2008 by Maigo6

[OxfordWill]

you know, Maigo, you dont have to even turn your pc on. Just a reminder

[Maigo6]

you know, Maigo, you dont have to even turn your pc on. Just a reminder

Thanks for the reminder Billy, I would surely have forgotten otherwise.

[sylviex]

Quite likely some monkey once stood up and tried to walk on two legs, but many others protested, "Our ancestors have always crawled. You're not to stand up!" Then they bit him to death.

--

Chinese writer, Lu Xun

[dumball]

I can't be bothered to read the Original post, let alone all the responses.

Going by the title of the Topic, I will add this.

Farangs think they are so superior, I would ignore them too. ( As indeed I do ).

Quite acceptable comment , but , where does one learn except from those with a broader spectrum of both modern day knowledge and experience ? A little deep for you maybe , sit quietly for an hour or six , i feel sure you can work it out .

[dumball]

being ignored by my colleagues at work has given me more resolve in deciding not to work for another thai company again.

many of the posters who have worked with thai colleagues, in business and education, seem to suggest that this social ineptitude is quite common in thai professional life.

yes, unfortunately it is the same everywhere, you go to work in Denmark and they are gonna speak danish, you go to France, and they are definitely gonna speak french, etc...

Sir , with the posts i have read i have come to a similar prognosis , stop trying to prove YOUR POINT , MOVE TO ANOTHER TABLE PREFERABLY ON THE OPPOSITE END OF THE DINING AREA AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE . You have to be terribly dense despite your self proffesed inteligence not to notice that these particular Thai are not one bit interested in you as a person nor any of your input outside of 'The office ' live with it .

[lifeisrandom]

maybe your problem is that you stare at the women. i have seen many farang doing this. they dont speak thai so they just spend the entire meal starring up and down at every woman at the table - trust me, its obvious and makes you look bad.