Your Pad Comments

[ilyushin]

I support their reasons, but not their way.

[LaoPo]

Anyone who thinks that a victory for PAD will benefit this country is living in cloud-cuckoo land.

I agree, 100%.

WHY ?

Here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/PAD-Lay-Sieg...06#entry2182306

LaoPo

[jitagon]

I voted Yes to support PAD.

As previous posters have mentioned the current government is not legitimate. They bought their votes, as proven by court.

When it has been proven, people have been disqualified, therefore the government IS legitimate !

And as previous posters have mentionned, repeating ad nauseum a false statement doesn't make it true !

Pierrot, I am not sure what you are contesting? That vote buying happened? or that the act of votebuying causes the election to be illegitimate?

By the letter of the constitution, any party who has executives involved in vote buying should be dissolved. This is covered in act 237, the very act the PPP is trying to amend. Take a wild guess at why.

The PPP Parliament president was convicted of vote buying.

As I said in an other post, I've a bit of headache this morning and I'm not really ready for an in-depth conversation.

To make things simple, the party in power is the people choice. The election have been held many times in the recent years and they've always returned the same people. Like it or not, as far as democracy is concerned, this government is legitimate.

The constitution has been written to maintain a weak government. The fact that the prime minister has limited power in this time of crisis is a prove of that. I will let more knowledgeable people develop the subject, but we had the same problem in France, governments unable to do anything, before we moved from the 4^th to the 5^th republic. Therefore the constitution need to be changed in order to able the government to effectively govern.

There is many other issues that need to be discussed but this morning, that's the best I can do.

Awwwwww.

[jitagon]

Foreign tourists have about zero interest in the aims of PAD, and that also applies to their level of interest in the Thai government. This is internal Thai politics.

To rehash my deleted comment on the original news thread (and kudos for separating the news from the commentary on an event where many seek only the news), it is not about politics in the 'western' sense as there is little such 'politics' in Thailand, it is all about power between individuals and groups and who is going to get to eat the biggest piece of the pie. Since there is little to none political ideology involved, individuals are free to move from one power clique to another. And for the many non-Thai speakers on these boards, the long time traditional Thai euphemism for politics is "kin muang", literally "to eat the country".

Ummmm

[jitagon]

I support their reasons, but not their way.

An' how would you do it then? Take it to the Court of European Rights?

[ilyushin]

I support their reasons, but not their way.

An' how would you do it then? Take it to the Court of European Rights?

Each reason has a different solution and method of approach.

Constitutional Amendments - Hire lawyers, collect signatures and submit to the courts.

Thaksin - Force the Ministry of Justice and relevant agencies to close all the cases with a verdict, try in absentee, revoke Passports , bounty. Create a watchdog to report on the government's progress. submit arrest warrants for the Shins at the British Embassy.

Puppet of TLT or Thaksin, allow for new elections or call for a national confidence vote.

All the other issues have a natural course of pressure thru the system.

There is no winner in this situation. Samak lets one drop of body hit the soil and his career is over, PAD creates any more chaos and causes a death it is all over.

bets to call snap elections after the national budgets are approved on Wed. and tell everyone to go home and prepare for the elections.

I could go on, but if you know these people and seen the system work there is only one way out the other is not a choice, but suicide.

[jitagon]

I support their reasons, but not their way.

An' how would you do it then? Take it to the Court of European Rights?

Each reason has a different solution and method of approach.

Constitutional Amendments - Hire lawyers, collect signatures and submit to the courts.

Thaksin - Force the Ministry of Justice and relevant agencies to close all the cases with a verdict, try in absentee, revoke Passports , bounty. Create a watchdog to report on the government's progress. submit arrest warrants for the Shins at the British Embassy.

Puppet of TLT or Thaksin, allow for new elections or call for a national confidence vote.

All the other issues have a natural course of pressure thru the system.

There is no winner in this situation. Samak lets one drop of body hit the soil and his career is over, PAD creates any more chaos and causes a death it is all over.

bets to call snap elections after the national budgets are approved on Wed. and tell everyone to go home and prepare for the elections.

I could go on, but if you know these people and seen the system work there is only one way out the other is not a choice, but suicide.

And, how are you going to 'force' them? You beginning to see a pattern here?

[LinkPopularity]

Does anyone know the rough amount that this protest has cost the economy?

no, but the coup has cost Thailand about 300 billion Baht ...

[geriatrickid]

I agree with some of the positions publicly espoused by PAD, however, I do not support PAD. It's sort of like Italy during the Mussolini era where Il Duce said he's get the trains to run on time. That he did for a couple years until his policies ended up with there being no trains to worry about.

The fact is, I am not a Thai national and cannot vote in the elections. As such, my views really don't matter except in the capacity of my work and where I will choose to spend my money. Unfortunately, for those with investments and family here, they have a problem with the situation. All I know is that my friends are worried and while they joke about asking me to pull strings to get them visas out of here (I can't and they know it), I can feel their anxiety and stress. I wish some of the foreigners foaming at the mouth put themselves into the flip flops of some of these people and understood that for them, PAD offers nothing but more hardship, no matter how stylish the views.

Edited August 31, 2008 by geriatrickid

[Groongthep]

..... it is not about politics in the 'western' sense as there is little such 'politics' in Thailand, it is all about power between individuals and groups and who is going to get to eat the biggest piece of the pie. Since there is little to none political ideology involved, individuals are free to move from one power clique to another. And for the many non-Thai speakers on these boards, the long time traditional Thai euphemism for politics is "kin muang", literally "to eat the country".

Johpa is spot on. Many foreign observers have formed their opinions on the current political situation in Thailand framed in the mindset of western democracy where the purpose of political parties and other politically motivated groups is to advance a platform of policies and principles. Unfortunately, this system has never really existed in Thailand in any credible form. From 1973 to 1976 there was a short lived period of western style political development, but since that time Thai politics have been nothing more than the struggle for power by one faction against another with fickle politicians routinely jumping from weak "parties" to stronger ones to further their personal ambitions. Those who believe that the powers behind the PAD are motivated by some set higher ideals and a desire for true democracy, may have Thailand's best interests at heart but sadly are simply indulging in wishful thinking.

[ajarnmark]

Does anyone know the rough amount that this protest has cost the economy?

and please, for the sake of fairness: does anyone know, how much damage the tax-sin und samak clique have already done to thailands reputation and how much their corrupt regime has and still does cost thailand everyday? a wild guess: at least 1000 times as much (likely more!) than these protesters, each and everyday. corruption doesn't come free, it fills the pockets of few rogues with money stolen from the diligent and depriving the millions of poor and underprivileged......the eventual cost of any protest is more than justified as a rather effective way to fight corrupt regimes and is a wise investment into thailands future.

How can you justify paying for protesters?

my arguments are above, because they seem to be the only available force to fight a corrupt regime. i admit i would prefer some less dubious characters to do that dirty but desperately needed job, but i can see no one else, not even you (what would you suggest to fight corruption? or just lay back and do nothing?)

Money comes from people we can not even speak about.

there's only one institution in thailand you cannot speak about on tv, so peak out! or.....?

What is not good for Thailand in any democratic world is:

Thailand has a demoratic lead parliament.The majority won and the minority lost.

sorry, no again! the most impudent coalition of votebuyers took the booty, the more modest opposition lost

If you think PDA didn't do wote bying you are naive.

i am not as naive as you are, coz i know (not just guess wildly as you do) that pad has never contested in any election, they are an extra-parliamentary opposition.

as usual, your quotes blue, my arguments red

You are not only naive but troll too

Look at history of Sondhi and PAD and you will know (I sincerely wish you would) what they are doing.

PAD has only one agenda: destabilize Thailand and its growing economy coz Sondhi has lost wealth.

I feel pitty (and actually doubt if they are mentally sound) for those supporting PAD.

[steveromagnino]

Also, the PPP did NOT receive the majority vote

They received more votes from more free voting people than any other party, I would say that means that the 'majority' of people in Thailand supported them at the time of the election. I am sure that if you were to have a vote now amongst the population of Thailand as to do they support PAD or not the majority would vote with a resounding NO

So many people around the world are pissed at their governments, but they wait until election time to vote them out. As for the vote buying statement, isn't that what PAD are guilty of doing now with their payments to the demonstrators?

the PPP did no receive more party votes from more free voting people than any other party; the Democrats did; here is the exact result:

PPP

26,293,456 (Constituency) 14,071,799 (Proportional)

Democrats

21,745,696 (Constituency) 14,084,265 (Proportional)

I think what you mean is, the PPP received more of the votes for constituents, which is not at all surprising, as they had the larger share of the rural gangster types that are entrenched in many of the provincial towns and have not changed at all even with the ban on 111; instead wives with nursing experience managed to sweep some areas etc etc. If anyone with a brain was working in journalism, they would have by now written an article explaining that buying votes person by person is the old approach and probably not nearly as important as buying candidates which is still legal and explains why Samak a former Democrat is now PPP and why Sanan a former Democrat advisor is now a Chartthai advisor (and is one of the deal makers to get the factions). Since 400 come from Constitutents, and 80 come from proportional, not suprisingly the PPP prevailed. And note the way the election boundaries are set up was fair in so far as each area received similar seats in relation to hte number of voters, NOT similar seats in relation to tax or otherwise.

Don't try to suggest that the PAD is only some paid mob, just going down there are talking to them (which I assume you have not) would reveal countless people there for reasons other than the pay which I would hazard most do not even receive.

The same test for the pro Thaksin mob in Jatujact 2 years back the proportion of paid vs. non paid would have been massive.

The fact of the matter is many of us (me included) do not like the PAD. I also happen to despise the morons in power at the moment, and I know for a fact some of the dirt on some of those involved. I also know that these people (and they are the same people that have served in power for the most part for the last 15 years) are not ever going to successfully improve Thailand. If you have met or spent time with Sanoh et al, you would presumably be intelligent enough to conclude the same thing.

Sure they may have a few non sustainable giveaways as per Thaksin, but there is no long term development. In fact, the only real benefit to this whole mess since 2005 is that the government haven't been doing anything, and in that vacuum business is actually going pretty well for us; at least we don't have to compete against the situation under TRT where some companies had huge headstarts and others huge barriers; right now the playing field is still somewhat equal.

As for TRT. Yes they were voted in. Yes they deserved a shot at running things. Yes they are guilty of a ton of corruption deals. Yes with a fair trial they should fry. Yes we should keep a democratic system. No a democratic system is not a mandate to change laws to favour yourself, to interfere with a free press, to ignore the constitution (actually twice; both the 1997 one and the current one are treated as inconveniences by PPP/TRT unless you consider the treatment of the NCCC and NTC under Thaksin to be anything close to fair and let's not even mention the idiotic wealth disclosure which was a fairly clear signal of how things would be run!) and to run a few extra judicial killing sprees in the south and also regarding drugs.

So for that reason, no I am not that happy to see the same idiots back in power. But that doesn't make me a fan of the PAD.

With enforcement of the constitution; either one will do 1997 or 2007, genuine punishment and a neutral senate and court system we will see gradual transition to democracy. That is clearly not one of the PPP aims since they face dissolution under this constitution (which they knew about when they did it). Which is why I am not a fan of them either (apart from their total lack of skill in doing anything proven in the last 9 months where they have suggested setting up a rice cartel and other idiotic ideas all rather amusing if they weren't actually serious about them).

Ajarnmark:

When the pro TRT forces planted bombs around the capital (ok ok alledgedly of course but with advance warnings and codes and so forth to ensure there would not actually be mayhem and huge casualties) which hit areas like Ratchaprasong like a cup of cold sick and affected tourism at that time, were you equally angry with Thaksin and his pals?

Or how about Jakapop doing a bit of the old mad dog and storming Pa Prem's personal abode hurling stones etc etc?

I hope you aren't being single minded about how bad PAD is based on a few mostly peaceful protests, because as every good dancer knows 'it takes two to tango' (and aptly added by a friend at a big wedding a few years back, 'three could be trouble' - we have fuor on one side and 8 on the other.....big trouble in little China aye boyo)

I won't say too much more, as just as some might think I have blinkers on, I feel like I am surrounded by race horses.

Edited September 15, 2008 by steveromagnino

[Denim]

Interesting that on TV only 23% of the members support the PAD. You would think from their loud gong banging that the PADDIES would have more support. If you take a look at what the foreign press have to say then PAD's support shrinks to nothing. No wonder they hate the democratic process ! If they were to join forces with the Bangkokians Resistance to Agriculturalists they could double their support and become:

The PADded BRA ?

[Scott]

Yes, the poll speaks for itself. More against PAD than for it, but the comments would suggest otherwise. I guess it's true, an empty drum makes the most noise!