State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

paulfromphuket · September 8, 2008

What the PAD really want... an interview (scroll down)
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JI09Ae01.html

thats has certainly made me think,and i recomend everybody reads this twice .

then the dicussion should get interesting.

Thanh-BKK · September 8, 2008

The PAD armed thugs took over the NBT station with semi-automatic weapons, clubs, golf clubs ect. and many had drugs on them. This happened before the illegal take over of the Government House and before the DAAD ralley. You don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Hi

I still don't believe those were actual PAD members. Why in the world would THAT group be heavily armed, while the whole rest of PAD didn't even have a wooden stick on them??

Ever heard the term "setup"? All they (government/DAAD) have/had to do is send their own, in yellow t-shirts, to create some highly public chaos and destruction and voila, everyone thinks it was actually PAD. Well, i do NOT think so.

Thanh

LaoPo · September 8, 2008

Lao Po
You are sick. It's a joke to have a cook as prime minister. You are the one who is narrow minded. If Taksin, Samak and friends were not so corrupt there would not be a PAD at all.

Why are you bashing at Sondhi? I'm not a fan of him but I'm certainly not a fan of this Taksin and Samak basterds who only think about themself and their ego's.

Even if they are elected "democrationaly" they still have to serve the Thai people and not themself and their cronies and family.

Wake up. It's not only the people in governmenthouse but there are millions who are silent but supporting of Pad even though they don't agree with everything. There are so many people even in Chiangmai who hate Samak and Taksin but don't dare to raise their voice because that's dangerous because of this government supporters who now go after everybody in yellow supported by the fine boys of the PPP. Sick. sick

Try to be civil old chap -ouwe reus- . Look at our fellow PM doing all kinds of crazy things like driving racing cars, appearing in all kinds of television shows (including a cooking show !), kissing girls and talking language like a fully automated machine at the same time and which nobody understands.

Do you hear anybody protest because of that ?

Bashing Sondhi ? Did you study the man's history ? The man is full of hate and self-pityness since his bankruptcy in 1997 where he lost Billions and Billions of Baht. (Fortune magazine estimated his fortune at US$ 600 Million in 1996, just before he went under......) A bankruptcy he blamed his close friend and ally Thaksin for but it was the banks who asked for his bankruptcy since he refused to pay back some 1,6 Billion Baht; not only his string of companies went under with many Billions in debt but he declared himself bankrupt for 3 years so that he didn't have to pay that money back. Quite a crooky chap, your friend Sondhi.

That's exactly the point, everybody is praising Sondhi and still talking Samak and Thaksin but for me, that's history but real clever of Sondhi.....taking the attention off yourself and blame the whole world. Typical behavior of a man full of hate.

The REAL future danger is in Sondhi's plan to SILENCE the same Millions of supporters you are talking about; the uneducated MAJORITY in Thailand he wants to shut up and let them VOTE NO MORE !

Thailand better beware of taking Sondhi aboard... the same man who says he's going to be a Monk when Samak is toppled...really ?

Think twice before you write and try, just try, to behave like a Gentleman.....een Heer.

LaoPo

paulfromphuket · September 8, 2008

what PAD want

Announcement Number 20/2008 People’s Alliance for Democracy On “New Politics”

<H5 class=detailsubmit>Manager

08 September 2008

News</H5>The People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has been gathering continuously to protect the Constitution to prevent it from being used as a tool in laundering the wrongdoings of Thaksin Shinawatra and his associates, to eradicate the Thaksin regime, to chase out the proxy government, and to pave the way for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand.

For unity and clarity of the rally, the PAD wants to announce the direction of new politics for the Kingdom of Thailand as follows:

1. The current political system should be condemned as electioneers monopolize electoral constituencies and businesspeople. Vote-buying and electoral fraud exist through using local influence to threaten the public. State authority is abused and money is used to win elections at all costs on the weakness and corrupt activities of some Election Commission officials, who cannot ensure a fair and just election.

With elections riddled with fraud and vote-buying, Thai politics has turned into “money politics.” Politicians have to pay back to their sponsors through corruption, violation of the law, and violation of the oath they gave to His Majesty the King when they took office. They sell their country as was seen from how this administration violated the Constitution, as ruled by the Constitution Court, in signing the joint communiqué which allowed Cambodia to register Preah Vihear Temple as a World Heritage Site by itself. They seek benefits for themselves and their cronies and abuse the Parliamentary system by utilizing their majority vote to support the ruling coalition in unethical endeavors, turning Parliament into a dictatorship of capitalism.

As most politicians in the system strive to seek benefits for themselves and their cronies, the checks and balance system from the judiciary, the media, and the public are damaged, destroyed, and threatened.

The judiciary system has been damaged and destroyed through the transfer of state officials to put politicians’ associates into power. The Administrative and Legislative branches have jointly tried to amend the Constitution to lower the authority of the judiciary and the checks and balance system. Corrupt politicians try to bribe the judiciary system. The media sees interference. People who are exercising their rights to gather against the government have been injured by the police and thugs backed by the government. All of this contribute to the efforts to destroy the country’s checks and balance system to cover up the evil of politicians. Attempts also exist to lessen the power of the monarchy for absolute control by politicians.

Even if politicians resign or a House dissolution occurs, Thai politics will continue in this vicious cycle if no efforts are made to reform it.

For a sustainable future of the country, the PAD sees that it is necessary for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand.

2. New politics for the Kingdom of Thailand is true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy with the following goals:

2.1 Support for good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power so all sectors of society are ensured justice.

2.2 The public must be allowed participation in politics. New politics will not only see politicians elected from constituencies but will see representation from all sectors, such as representatives from different vocations and groups. This will be designed by a Constitution that sees public participation to ensure a true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

3. To ensure that new politics is introduced in the Kingdom of Thailand, the PAD announces the following stance:

3.1 The PAD sees its first goal as chasing out this proxy government that has sold the country. It is not necessary for negotiations with any group that sees otherwise.

We support changes to the current political situation on the condition that political reform must happen and the public must be allowed participation in politics. There must also be sincere efforts to solve the evil in the Thaksin regime through the judiciary system.

The proposal on the PAD stage of a 70 : 30 ratio of public representatives to elected representatives is merely an example of how the old-style politics should be replaced and is open to discussions. It is not a fixed formula advocated by the PAD. We are ready for a discussion from all sides on designing new politics and will respect the majority decision for new politics that is ethical, moral, and more representative of the varied social sectors to go in line with the lifestyles and culture of Thailand but still upholding democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

With deep respect,

People’s Alliance for Democracy

Monday, September 08, 2008

At Government House Source: พันธมิตรฯ แถลงความชัดเจน"การเมืองใหม่"

.

Thanh-BKK · September 8, 2008

The Government house is public property , so why shouldn't they be there? You have got to be joking. As a US citizen do I have the right to go sleep in the White House with George Bush? Can I go break down the door of the US Capital and live in it? Can I break down the door to Fort Knox and sit on the money because I am a citizen? There is no excuse for what the PAD has done. They have every right to protest as they were doing before but have now gone way over the line in breaking the law.

Ok so you're zeroing in on my posts, thank you for the attention, i feel flattered. Does the PPP issue you at least a pay slip or do they pay under the table? Do you need a work permit to be the official party representative on foreign-language web forums??

Ok to address the (very valid) points: Does Samak (or any other government official for that matter) actually LIVE in the government house? Are PAD actually IN the building?? I don't think so on both accounts. That are two of the differences between the White House and the Thai government house. Of course it takes a German to tell an American about that

The Capital. Again, did the PAD break any doors/windows of the actual building, and are they inside the building? As far as i know (without having been at the site) they only camp/sit-in on the land IN FRONT OF the building.

Fort Knox. Are all of Thailand's gold reserves, or any other central monetary items, located inside the government house? Again i don't think so, for lack of armed guards.

Now if YOU want to protest, and you manage to gather a large enough group to actually form a valid protest mass (one man with a banner is likely ineffective), where would YOU stage your protest? In the driveway of your home? On your balcony? Or somewhere where the public can actually see you? Or, even better, where the party you're protesting against can actually see you and SUFFER from your protest? Because that's the whole point of protesting now, or isn't it?

Now i don't need an American (or anyone for that matter) to tell me that i don't know what i'm talking about. I am actually pretty well informed on what i am talking about, which is the reason why i don't contribute all that much to this topic - if i don't know something i keep my mouth shut and my keyboard silent. However i have a Thai person sitting beside me who has a number of work colleagues that actually joined PAD's protests and therefor ther's some insider knowledge available. While YOU probably have all your news from television (NBT, yes?) or from the bar you frequent the most (not that that was a bad thing, but information tends to be a little one-sided there).

Oh, b the way io fully and whole-heartedly agree with you that PAD are breaking the laws, a whole bunch of laws in fact. HOWEVER THEIR breaking those laws does NOT cost the Thai public billions and billions of Baht - while that law-breaking of TRT/Thaksin/PPP/Samak DOES. And i personally DO prefer a "little law breaking with small damage" over a "huge law breaking with huge damage". And - sometimes it takes small criminals to uproot larger criminals, SPECIALLY when the large criminals have the possibility to pardon themselves by amending laws.

Best regards.....

Thanh

blaze · September 8, 2008

We are ready for a discussion from all sides on designing new politics and will respect the majority decision for new politics that is ethical, moral, and more representative of the varied social sectors to go in line with the lifestyles and culture of Thailand but still upholding democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

And how does the PAD propose to determine the 'majority decision'? (On the surface it seems kind of odd that an organization hellbent on undermining the very concept of 'majority rule' is now pandering to it---- or are they? Notice that they will respect the majority position that is ethical, moral etc-

In other words they have no intention whatsoever of honoring the 'majority decision' - unless the majority decision meets those criteria- and who will decide if it has? Why, Chamlong and Sondhi will. So basically that means we will accept any majority decison that we think is the right decision.

And some really believed this is just a fight between Sondhi and Thaksin/Samak?

Also waiting for the Democrats to unequivocably reject this statement- if for no other reason than because they too have been insulted (simply for being polititians)

LaoPo · September 8, 2008

what PAD want
The proposal on the PAD stage of a 70 : 30 ratio of public representatives to elected representatives is merely an example of how the old-style politics should be replaced and is open to discussions. It is not a fixed formula advocated by the PAD. We are ready for a discussion from all sides on designing new politics and will respect the majority decision for new politics that is ethical, moral, and more representative of the varied social sectors to go in line with the lifestyles and culture of Thailand but still upholding democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

1. That's exactly what I'm warning for; 70% Public appointed representatives (by WHOM...Mr. PAD himself ?) : 30% elected representatives......almost totalitarian

2. "..open to discussions"...with PAD ?

3. "We are ready for discussion from all sides......and will respect the majority decision for new politics......"...will respect the majority ? They don't respect it NOW so why would anybody believe them later ?

Does NOBODY see the DANGER ?

LaoPo

ace · September 8, 2008

what PAD want
2.1 Support for good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power so all sectors of society are ensured justice.

...............

Thanks for the post, didn't want to copy the whole thing so just focused on 2.1 which is, well, odd. Sounds a little scary.

Thai at Heart · September 8, 2008

It seems that the PAD did see the danger.

From a speech

Thaksin Shinawatra, leader of Thai Rak Thai Party,

speech at Sanam Luang, 4 February 20051

(translated by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit)

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk...lection2005.pdf

Since we have had a couple of weeks of Sondhi and Samak, lets get to the root of the problem.

Koo82 · September 8, 2008

Who saved Thailand after the crisis since 1997? I don't mind anyone taking the chance to bring $ to his own family as long as he develops Thailand as much as what Khun Thaksin did.

Taking the chance to be rich is not unusual. We are human beings.

paulfromphuket · September 8, 2008

what PAD want
2.1 Support for good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power so all sectors of society are ensured justice.

...............

Thanks for the post, didn't want to copy the whole thing so just focused on 2.1 which is, well, odd. Sounds a little scary.

all sounds scary and your right not to quote it en mass will clog the forum up

and your welcome

Tony Clifton · September 8, 2008

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand. What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

The trial for his cooking show comes on top of a defamation suit and three corruption charges he faces.

This is the best candidate PPP had to offer their country for a PM?

In working democracies, he would have been told to get his sh!t straightened out before daring to approach the party with such court cases still ongoing.

There would have been public outrage had been tried in N. America and many European countries.

Saw Samak doing his little routine in court while at the dentists's office today. Wondering why the judge was smiling, my wife said he was trying to intimidate and using rude language when replying to the judge, he apparently got his change back and more. Doesn't matter who's in power, TRT/PPP have always thought and shown that the law is something that doesn't apply to them.

Why would a mafia syndicate wearing a political party costume think differently?

Meerkat · September 8, 2008

In the article he tells us that we shouldn't believe what is said on stage; now he expects us to believe what he puts in print?

The vaguaries of "New Politics" simply do not matter anyway. It is the underlying concept that is so hard to swallow - rural voters have too much power with respect to who gets into the House and a way must be found to transfer that power to worthy (in his opinion) others. Couched this time as that they are getting the wrong information. Well that's not patronising at all is it?

The sheer arrogance of this character too that the government must do what he says before he'll sit down and negotiate is breathtaking. Negotiate what for heaven's sake? He's got as much right to hold the government, whether it be PPP, Dems or any other, to blackmail as any other ordinary citizen. Which is none. His charge-sheet must be as long as Samak's by now but he seems to cower behind old women (oh and paid security with an assorted arsenal). He castigates others for not following the law, but refuses to hold himself up to the same standard. What does he think he is? Who does he think he is?

This is not a mass uprising of "good" people against some tyrannical dictator. This is not People Power. This is not the Orange Revolution. This is exactly the opposite; an individual whipping up a largely well-heeled minority to reduce the power of ordinary folks and put it in the hands of others.

He says, "The whole thing happened because the Election Commission has never done its job. They closed one eye and took bribes and let cheating MPs into the parliament."

Is he talking about the present EC? The same one which saw TRT booted? The one which is recommending booting the PPP? The one which seems to have made a pretty good start at rooting out corruption from all the parties involved? If not, then he must mean the old EC. Well here's a heads-up - we've got a new one and it's flexing its muscles cutting out the rot. If he does mean the present one, well...Annie get your lawyer.

I've liked Crispin's writing. This interview though is nothing more than a puff-piece to try and reverse some of the PR damage that "New Politics" has cost the PAD (interesting and unusual that Thai Rath picked up and featured the Economist article from Friday in an editorial today - perhaps PAD are scared that foreign condemnation will now spill into the Thai press). It doesn't succeed anyway. Not by a long shot. Sondhi's right about one thing though; it wouldn't have happened without his media empire.

Read the article and absorb the detail, but believe what he says no more than you would any other interview with anybody else with an agenda; pro- or anti-government, or with any other media outlet; pro- or anti-democratic.

Tony Clifton · September 8, 2008

Who saved Thailand after the crisis since 1997? I don't mind anyone taking the chance to bring $ to his own family as long as he develops Thailand as much as what Khun Thaksin did.
Taking the chance to be rich is not unusual. We are human beings.

According to what you are saying here it was all done by a single man, Thaksin, The little Emperor, also known as Coward The Great.

You have got to be kidding...

paulfromphuket · September 8, 2008

It seems that the PAD did see the danger.
From a speech

Thaksin Shinawatra, leader of Thai Rak Thai Party,

speech at Sanam Luang, 4 February 20051

(translated by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit)

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk...lection2005.pdf

Since we have had a couple of weeks of Sondhi and Samak, lets get to the root of the problem.

umm tough one that but like the kennedy quote

Thai at Heart · September 8, 2008

They seek benefits for themselves and their cronies and abuse the Parliamentary system by utilizing their majority vote to support the ruling coalition in unethical endeavors, turning Parliament into a dictatorship of FEUDALISM.

What odds that part of the "master" plan is that Sondhi gets a national TV channel?

cmsally · September 8, 2008

Just to pick out some pieces from PAD statement:

Even if politicians resign or a House dissolution occurs, Thai politics will continue in this vicious cycle if no efforts are made to reform it.

So I think we can safely say that the PAD have decidedly longer term and more far reaching objectives than the resignation of Samak.

Support for good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power so all sectors of society are ensured justice.

Crikey that's open to interpretation.

The public must be allowed participation in politics. New politics will not only see politicians elected from constituencies but will see representation from all sectors, such as representatives from different vocations and groups. This will be designed by a Constitution that sees public participation to ensure a true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

Well they obviously think we need a new constitution. I seem to remember their first objections being because of constitution amendment (of course they were the "wrong " reasons)

The PAD sees its first goal as chasing out this proxy government that has sold the country. It is not necessary for negotiations with any group that sees otherwise.

Well this means no negotiation with the government and also no negotiations with groups that are against completely getting rid of the government. Basically they have the right to dismiss anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint.

The proposal on the PAD stage of a 70 : 30 ratio of public representatives to elected representatives is merely an example of how the old-style politics should be replaced and is open to discussions. It is not a fixed formula advocated by the PAD. We are ready for a discussion from all sides on designing new politics and will respect the majority decision for new politics that is ethical, moral, and more representative of the varied social sectors to go in line with the lifestyles and culture of Thailand but still upholding democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

They have just said above that they will not negotiate with the present govt or anyone that sides with it. Their discussions on the new politics is going to be a bit one sided isn't it. But of course this is necessary if they are to recognise the majority decision (can't have the wrong majority can we).

I am joining Lao Po. Surely others see the danger in this and am starting to understand where some people see the similarities to communism. This could be leading to a totalitarian one party system, with a nasty backlash of informants if you happen to have the "wrong " viewpoint. After all it suggests that opposition is to be simply dismissed and dealt with. Doesn't seem to be much of a recourse to law and justice. You are simply right or wrong. After all if they manage to topple this govt. by being simply "right and ethical", who is anyone else to argue.

Scary stuff indeed.

Thai at Heart · September 8, 2008

It seems that the PAD did see the danger.
From a speech

Thaksin Shinawatra, leader of Thai Rak Thai Party,

speech at Sanam Luang, 4 February 20051

(translated by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit)

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk...lection2005.pdf

Since we have had a couple of weeks of Sondhi and Samak, lets get to the root of the problem.

umm tough one that but like the kennedy quote

I don't deny that he was corrupt, he should have paid his taxes, the extra judicial killings were awful. But when you campaign on mobility for the poor like he talks of here, I can imagine the shivers going down the old money's spine.

Tony Clifton · September 8, 2008

It seems that the PAD did see the danger.
From a speech

Thaksin Shinawatra, leader of Thai Rak Thai Party,

speech at Sanam Luang, 4 February 20051

(translated by Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit)

http://pioneer.netserv.chula.ac.th/~ppasuk...lection2005.pdf

Since we have had a couple of weeks of Sondhi and Samak, lets get to the root of the problem.

"We will negotiate with the expressways and introduce computer

systems to help, so paying the toll will be quick, just easily deducted from a bank account,

not collecting 40 baht each time which is annoying and expensive. We’ll make the

expressway tolls very cheap.

I will build more sport stadiums and more parks. There will be places to exercise in

the morning everywhere. Wherever there’s a public space, let me know. I’ve done it

everywhere under the expressway already. Bangkok municipality didn’t do it, I did it

myself. No matter, I can find the money myself. And schools will be turned into good

schools, and all close to home, so there’s no need to travel a long way."

Sounds very funny coming from a man whose son was caught with a cheat sheet at his mid-term university exam.

Lety's not forget his daughter's grade, too low for the admission exam in another universitythat brought embarassment onto itself by lowering the passing grades after receiving orders to do so

Narcissism at it's best.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Tony Clifton

LaoPo · September 8, 2008

The ENTIRE world will look and almost laugh themselves to death if the Thai government is overthrown because of a cooking PM..........

Let's wait until 2pm tomorrow. I'll laugh my head off first. Only in Thailand. What a great reason to pull a Prime Minister

The trial for his cooking show comes on top of a defamation suit and three corruption charges he faces.

This is the best candidate PPP had to offer their country for a PM?

In working democracies, he would have been told to get his sh!t straightened out before daring to approach the party with such court cases still ongoing.

There would have been public outrage had been tried in N. America and many European countries.

Saw Samak doing his little routine in court while at the dentists's office today. Wondering why the judge was smiling, my wife said he was trying to intimidate and using rude language when replying to the judge, he apparently got his change back and more. Doesn't matter who's in power, TRT/PPP have always thought and shown that the law is something that doesn't apply to them.

Why would a mafia syndicate wearing a political party costume think differently?

Good post Tony and I mean that.

IF he's toppled tomorrow the rest of the world will not learn (or hardly) about the other charges. They will learn that a legitimate elected coalition's PM was toppled because he appeared at a cooking show and that's bad for Thailand's image and Thailand will lose face, BIG TIME.

Nobody can convince me that Thailand has a serious kind of image in the Western world; maybe so with ASEAN....? I doubt it because the rest isn't much better, democracy wise.

Thailand has become the Banana Republic of the Far East.

I am not doubting the bad choice by the PPP but the problem is that the coalition, the PPP (who had the majority of votes, paid or unpaid) made a deal to form a government which is now some 7/8 months on the road.

WHY on earth did everybody, who was in the process forming this government, go along with PPP's choice and WHY didn't the PAD/Sondhi created mass protests back in January during the formation of the government when it could have had a much larger impact ?

Were the coalition partners too horny for the Pluche ? I think so because that is in the genes of politicians, being horny for power and attention, First Class service and other fine presents that come along the job, being a member of the government.

But, WHERE on Earth was Sondhi at that particular time ? Did he wait for T. to return and start his protests then ?

BUT, Tony, we shouldn't forget one MAJOR point and that is the support for someone or something or a Party the MAJORITY of the rural poor were waiting for.......already for many decades:

Prosperity, the possibility for their children to go to University, a better life, a better income, better health, better housing..I could go on.

We now know what happened with TRT and now the PPP, but.......

Do you, or anybody else, expect and think that the PAD or the so called new politics will bring that prosperity to them ?

A man like Sondhi who says that 70% appointed -, 30% elected members is best for Thailand ? The man who's planning gagging the uneducated rural poor ?

Really ?

LaoPo

Meerkat · September 8, 2008

The PAD sees its first goal as chasing out this proxy government that has sold the country. It is not necessary for negotiations with any group that sees otherwise.

Well this means no negotiation with the government and also no negotiations with groups that are against completely getting rid of the government. Basically they have the right to dismiss anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint.

Was about to post on this nugget when I saw your almost identical reply (good breakdown of the rest btw). Yes it would appear that the plurality of the public who voted the government in and still want them there are now personae non gratae in PAD's eyes.

PAD calls it "democracy", but the precise correlation between the information communicated and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

[with apologies to fans of Yes Prime Minister]

Edited September 8, 2008 by Meerkat

Koo82 · September 8, 2008

No need to pay tax when buying and selling in stock market. Isn't it the rule?

kurtgruen · September 8, 2008

What the PAD really want...

I just found the following (very recent) announcement by PAD. So here you have it right from the horse's mouth....

Announcement Number 20/2008

People’s Alliance for Democracy

On “New Politics”

The People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has been gathering continuously to protect the Constitution to prevent it from being used as a tool in laundering the wrongdoings of Thaksin Shinawatra and his associates, to eradicate the Thaksin regime, to chase out the proxy government, and to pave the way for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand.