State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[Meerkat]

Plus; haven't got time to go through the rest of your post now, but the Pravit article you referred to is here. Agreed it's difficult to find everything on the Nation site; I only found it via Prachatai.

In brief re your second part though, I maintain that your interpretation of "New Politics" is still far more benign than Sondhi's.

[Old Man River]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

If you had read Sondhi's previous interviews- you would know that this is nothing more than Sondhi's attempt to sugar coat what remains a very bitter pill. As he cautions- don't believe everything you hear the PAD say on stage- and the press is a pretty big stage.

Oh well that's alright then

Is the bit about them wanting PPP out open to interpretation then? Obviously they were only half serious when they stormed govt house.

The statements are out there, what is the meaning in debating whether they are meaningful or not. If they aren't meaningful, why make them?

While Sondhi is not the most truthful individual anyone has ever met (close to the opposite, actually), as you mention, it is the undercurrent in this article that is very important. The fact is this "new politics" that Sondhi is referring to is being seriously discussed and I expect it may be a case of when and how and not if.

[kurtgruen]

Here's a little quote from the Nation, about our new seat of Government...

Deputy Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, acting as caretaker prime minister, consulted with concerned parties and decided to use Don Mueang Airport as the office for the prime minister and his deputies as well as permanent officials.

I guess they see the writing on the wall. lol

Already have their escape route planned ;-)

[Thai at Heart]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

If you had read Sondhi's previous interviews- you would know that this is nothing more than Sondhi's attempt to sugar coat what remains a very bitter pill. As he cautions- don't believe everything you hear the PAD say on stage- and the press is a pretty big stage.

Oh well that's alright then

Is the bit about them wanting PPP out open to interpretation then? Obviously they were only half serious when they stormed govt house.

The statements are out there, what is the meaning in debating whether they are meaningful or not. If they aren't meaningful, why make them?

While Sondhi is not the most truthful individual anyone has ever met (close to the opposite, actually), as you mention, it is the undercurrent in this article that is very important. The fact is this "new politics" that Sondhi is referring to is being seriously discussed and I expect it may be a case of when and how and not if.

I have exactly the same fear that it may well become some apparently benign reality, and rural development will grind to an absolute halt. Farmers will farm under the yolk of the middle man FOREVER, as more and more money gets poured willy nilly into Bangkok.

[blaze]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

If you had read Sondhi's previous interviews- you would know that this is nothing more than Sondhi's attempt to sugar coat what remains a very bitter pill. As he cautions- don't believe everything you hear the PAD say on stage- and the press is a pretty big stage.

Oh well that's alright then

Is the bit about them wanting PPP out open to interpretation then? Obviously they were only half serious when they stormed govt house.

The statements are out there, what is the meaning in debating whether they are meaningful or not. If they aren't meaningful, why make them?

Of course the original statements- and the political sentiments underlying them are meaningful- but he is no doubt aware that many who were sympathetic to him are now scratching their heads (since he spelled out his proto-fascist visions a couple of weeks back) and now he seeks to sugar coat his odious little half baked political vision- to make it more palatable to those who would otherwise share his goals of getting rid of the Thaksin legacy....

but the message remains the same- the voters can not be trusted to elect a government that meets his standards. What is ironic is that he asks us not to believe statements made on the PAD stage- while expecting the uncommitted to fall for his new and seemingly more liberal stance.

Edited September 10, 2008 by blaze

[Plus]

I maintain that your interpretation of "New Politics" is still far more benign than Sondhi's.

I believe everyone has his own interpretation of what it is or what it should be. Sondhi is not going to enforce his, it's up to the people to choose the most appropriate version.

The problem is that it's too revolutionary and there are many practical obstacles.

Decentralising politics might achieve similar effect with less resistance.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello again

Well first of all i'm actually from the western part of Germany, but i was obviously glued to the TV and radio when it happened and took it all in.

The GDR was as much "communist" as is Thailand. It was called "communist" (actually they themselves called it "socialist") but it was neither - it was a "democratic dictatorship" exactly as Thailand is, Erich Honecker can in fact very well be compared to Samak - both stubborn blockheads that cling to power to enrich themselves, come hel_l or high water, not giving a rat's ass about the people in the country they run. Thailand is not yet down to the level the GDR was (only one party - didn't TRT plan to absorb all the others at some stage??) and of course, we don't quite have StaSi here yet.....

By the way, Mr. permanent_disorder, this is the first time i actually compare the two COUNTRIES - previously i only compared the PROTESTS.

And yes, i have always been and still am a communist by belief (even before i knew that that was called "communism"). However as of yet, not a single country in this world has achieved communism, and none ever will - for the simple reason that human beings ALWAYS strive for power and personal gain. In true communism, ALL are 100% equal and nobody owns more or less than anyone else.

Best regards......

Thanh

[permanent_disorder]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

it is called own mind and own opinion. do you have any? can you elaborate them? explain it , wrote more and not just one or two lines. develop your argument.

when i know what is your opinion, then we can discuss about it. i would take the time to respond.

it's also been a lot said about this text.

the source, a former print media owned by sondhis manager group.

a journalist asking to soft question and is actually not question. teethless. only a mouth piece of sondhi propaganda for the west.

your not going to believe what samak told the internationl media, right? me too, and i am not going to believe everythng what sondhi is talking. you can not take face value but have to read between the lines.

the interview also did not contain any new points or things we didn't know before. except maybe sondhi bonmonts like "Don't take too seriously what's said on the stage.". har, har, what a joke.

a thai visa member, thai at heart, posted the questions, that that "journalist" had forget to ask, but got ignored and proPAD cultists flood the thread with photos of samak having a snack to avoid discussions.

sondhi talks about his political vision, you will find many post here, which offer different opinions and viewpoints on his politic ideas.

so what you want to talk about?

[angora]

"armed to the teeth"... usually those description refer to firearms or at least something more like this...

I'm sure you would be equally amused if the PAD thugs smacked you on the head with it SJ?

Big knives make good photos but the story line someone was trying to give us is that the band of thugs who took over Government House were unarmed, peaceful protesters.

There are hundreds of media pictures out there that show they were anything but unarmed or peaceful.

There are firsthand reports from Bloomberg and other reporters the night of the confrontation of bullets flying by them coming from the Government House toward the AAD mob.

PAD is for the most part armed and paid by the royalist/military/Bangkok elite who wish to overthrow an elected government and install their own henchmen to continue looting the government. Anything else is just fluff to disguise their motives.

~WISteve

I like dity politics and I like to play dirty.

If I were PAD, I would hire some trouble maker to dress in red and swing some big weapons around infront of the (foreign) camera-man. If I pro-govt, I would do the same, just switch the dress to yellow. It should only cost a few thousand baht per actor.

I am sure that both sides have already thought of that.

FAKE!

here some more photo from the fake session.

that picture of somchai machete is 100% staged and faked. that are just a few actors given brand new red shirts to pose with weapons to make "good" picture. perfect example how propaganda works and how pictures can lie.

just look at the time of the day the pictures have been made. do you see the sky in the background? it is dawn, but not at night time.

you see all the photographers/reporters sourround them?

ever seen those machete boys in action, in other situations?

for me it looks like a stupid stage play with poorly costumed actors.

there have been enough evidence and pictures posted how heavy armed the PAD pirates are. pictures from different dates, locations, events. i am not going to repeat to post them. flooding this thread is the style of other posters.

for the prove of violence of DAAD the picture of somchai machete and his friend with the slingshot, the same picture, got posted again and again.

i pointed out why i disbelieve those pictures. i recommend to take a closer look at them. a closer look you should take at many " news", "messages" and so on. from both sides. don't believe everything you have been told. think for yourself!

tony c, john, can you follow my arguments? have an opinion?

if you use yourself dodgy and questionable "evidence" like this, all of your points become noncredible and implausible.

have you any interest to find the truth? or play you just a propaganda game?

In which magazine/newspaper where these photos published?

[bangkokrick]

I think that the title of this thread should be changed as niether it or the sub title is relevant anymore.

Cheers, Rick

[Meerkat]

I maintain that your interpretation of "New Politics" is still far more benign than Sondhi's.

I believe everyone has his own interpretation of what it is or what it should be. Sondhi is not going to enforce his, it's up to the people to choose the most appropriate version.

The problem is that it's too revolutionary and there are many practical obstacles.

Decentralising politics might achieve similar effect with less resistance.

Again briefly point by point...good movie on pause...

PAD's manifesto article 3.1 stated that they wouldn't listen to those that disagreed with them (paraphrasing here but that was the gist). This echoes what Sondhi said on his international tour post-coup (the Seattle lecture IIRC). I fear the people will not be allowed to "choose".

If the rural majority believe their direct voting power is being diluted, the protests we're seeing here now will be nothing compared to a truly popular people's alliance for democracy IMO. The rest of the world however will be far more likely to side with them than with this so called PAD. Thailand will be considered East Burma (OK a bit flippant but you get my idea).

Decentralising politics from BKK might be a good notion in its own right, and one I haven't seriously looked at yet. I do not equate "NP" as moving politics towards the provinces though - exactly the opposite. Representatives "for the people" chosen by academics/bureaucrats/the judiciary from urban centres (and one in particular).

[Old Man River]

I think that the title of this thread should be changed as niether it or the sub title is relevant anymore.

Cheers, Rick

Hopefully the new PM (whoever it is) feels the same.

[Old Man River]

I maintain that your interpretation of "New Politics" is still far more benign than Sondhi's.

I believe everyone has his own interpretation of what it is or what it should be. Sondhi is not going to enforce his, it's up to the people to choose the most appropriate version.

The problem is that it's too revolutionary and there are many practical obstacles.

Decentralising politics might achieve similar effect with less resistance.

Again briefly point by point...good movie on pause...

PAD's manifesto article 3.1 stated that they wouldn't listen to those that disagreed with them (paraphrasing here but that was the gist). This echoes what Sondhi said on his international tour post-coup (the Seattle lecture IIRC). I fear the people will not be allowed to "choose".

If the rural majority believe their direct voting power is being diluted, the protests we're seeing here now will be nothing compared to a truly popular people's alliance for democracy IMO. The rest of the world however will be far more likely to side with them than with this so called PAD. Thailand will be considered East Burma (OK a bit flippant but you get my idea).

Decentralising politics from BKK might be a good notion in its own right, and one I haven't seriously looked at yet. I do not equate "NP" as moving politics towards the provinces though - exactly the opposite. Representatives "for the people" chosen by academics/bureaucrats/the judiciary from urban centres (and one in particular).

At the end of the day I don't see any comprises in the offering on how the political scene will eventually look. This country is completely polarized. The popular vote in the last election was 14 million for one side and 14 million for the other. People in that urban center you are referring to are getting very frustrated.

Obstacles to political change can be overcome and I suspect they will. What I hope will happen is that those in power really do believe in national reconciliation and don't treat it as just something that sounds good to say.

[dudemeister]

[Plus]

I do not equate "NP" as moving politics towards the provinces though - exactly the opposite. Representatives "for the people" chosen by academics/bureaucrats/the judiciary from urban centres (and one in particular).

Everytime I read about it - it's representatives of professional assossiations and various social groups. I assume rubber farmers or chicken food producers would qualify, as well as gays and handicapped.

The problem, as I see it, is to give fair representation to everybody - someone will always be left out, someone will always want more seats and so on. However, once that hurdle is overcome and everyone agrees on a basic formula, it should be easy.

Selection/election problem is the easiest, I believe - the groups, or functional constituencies as they are called in Hong Kong, can vote on their representatives themselves, or they can propose a limited number of candidates for selection by the Senate, or "electoral college", in Hong Kong speak. Doesn't really matter as long as ALL candidates have been vetted by their people first.

What I like about this idea is that it quesitons the old notion that constituencies should only be geographically based. It made sense 200 years ago in the US, but these days people's desire to participate in governing has very little to do with their physical location.

I mean - you can say that the country consists of 65 million people living in 76 provinces, but these days it makes more sense to say that the country consists of 40 million farmers, 2 million teachers, 15 million layabouts and so on.

[sriracha john]

Now we're getting somewhere.... We know who supplied these weapons....

[ace]

Review of Sondhi's World lecture tour, Seattle stop. Seems to me nothing's changed in his beliefs (quoted in full):

Nov 16, 2006

The speech was surprisingly well attended, with even a handful of my fellow Farangs in attendance. I though I might meet a few grad students and the new generation of Southeast Asian scholars on campus but encountered a number of my Thai acquaintances from the local business community who all assumed I was, to their delight, a Sondhi “supporter” as opposed to an interested bystander.

First, Sondhi’s English is excellent, far better than most. Initially he was initially to give a 20-minute talk in English, but the talk went on for nearly an hour.

Sondhi is clearly conflicted by the coup, happy to have Taksin out of the way yet frustrated that the only possible method of removing Taksin was a military coup. His reasons for this situation, this failure of “democracy”, and a personal frustration, focused upon a lack of free speech and free press, no surprise from coming from a self-proclaimed media tycoon recently muffled. He also briefly touched upon the failure of the education system to create an educated voting public, but like many Thais, he is unwilling to critically explore the nature of the Thai education system in any depth.

He was almost downright contemptuous of Taksin’s “populist” policies, as if populist notions were too far below him to even dignify a comment. He was equally, in my humble opinion, contemptuous of the poor who he imagines as being easily bought off by simple bribery. (I guess that my experiences of observing election money being distributed in local villages over the past 20 years and what Sondhi imagines it to be are at variance.) According to Sondhi, the poor and the very wealthy do not pay taxes (I believe the rural poor pay taxes indirectly by pricing controls on agriculture products) and that he is the self-proclaimed advocate for the newer emerging middle-class who he believes do pay the taxes. It really seemed to gall his Bangkok sensibilities that Taksin gave his, Sondhi’s, “hard-earned tax money,” to the rural poor. The poor seem to be the problem to Sondhi, as he noted that most of the opposition votes came from the 1st (amphoe muang) districts of a Province whilst Taksin received his support from the more rural districts. There was no mention about how he and the TRT opposition might have attempted to go after the rural votes.

Sondhi appears to be a monarchist and clearly supports the throne having a role in what he described as the “royal prerogative” to bestow or withhold favor on leaders of the nation. And judging by some of the images shown during his talk, methinks he has some support by the Crown Prince although he played down the role of the palace in the recent coup.

He attacked Taksin for the perceived problems at the new Airport (does he read the thaivisa boards?) without noting that this mega project predated his former ally’s rise to power. He also made a comment about someone taking advantage of a bankruptcy filing, an odd remark coming from one who is notorious for defaulting on loans.

I got the feeling, and just an opinion now, but both Sondhi and the other speaker (a vitriolic senator from Buriram) were really pissed off about Taksin because of the amounts of money he made off with tax-free. It was as if parts of the Thai elite, and I know Sondhi is no middle class tax payer, loss face because they could not even imagine getting away with such sums, and would never be in a position to be involved with such sums. I can only imagine, from my humble position, the loss of face having to acknowledge that a competitor stands in a class clearly above you.

I was unable to stay for Sondhi’s talk in Thai as two hours had already passed between Sondhi’s talk and the impassioned rant of the senator from Buriram. And I admit that I have problems following such speeches in Thai for too long.

In a question and answer follow up, Sondhi proclaimed that he was not a politician and had no interest in running for office. I found this rather difficult to accept given the political nature of the speech, with what could only be described as a campaign sign hanging above him, a book for sale, and what was clearly an enthusiastic group of ex-pat Thais here in the USA who wish to support Sondhi and his movement.

Upon my return home I thought that my wife would be happy that I went and met Thai friends but she was rather upset that I had become “involved” in Thai politics. It turns out she had been invited to the talk by several of her friends, but coming from a poor rural background up north, she perceived Sondhi as just another Taksin, another Thai politician, and I confess, I have to agree with her.

Hope the reviewer doesn't mind.

[permanent_disorder]

"armed to the teeth"... usually those description refer to firearms or at least something more like this...

I'm sure you would be equally amused if the PAD thugs smacked you on the head with it SJ?

Big knives make good photos but the story line someone was trying to give us is that the band of thugs who took over Government House were unarmed, peaceful protesters.

There are hundreds of media pictures out there that show they were anything but unarmed or peaceful.

There are firsthand reports from Bloomberg and other reporters the night of the confrontation of bullets flying by them coming from the Government House toward the AAD mob.

PAD is for the most part armed and paid by the royalist/military/Bangkok elite who wish to overthrow an elected government and install their own henchmen to continue looting the government. Anything else is just fluff to disguise their motives.

~WISteve

I like dity politics and I like to play dirty.

If I were PAD, I would hire some trouble maker to dress in red and swing some big weapons around infront of the (foreign) camera-man. If I pro-govt, I would do the same, just switch the dress to yellow. It should only cost a few thousand baht per actor.

I am sure that both sides have already thought of that.

FAKE!

here some more photo from the fake session.

that picture of somchai machete is 100% staged and faked. that are just a few actors given brand new red shirts to pose with weapons to make "good" picture. perfect example how propaganda works and how pictures can lie.

just look at the time of the day the pictures have been made. do you see the sky in the background? it is dawn, but not at night time.

you see all the photographers/reporters sourround them?

ever seen those machete boys in action, in other situations?

for me it looks like a stupid stage play with poorly costumed actors.

there have been enough evidence and pictures posted how heavy armed the PAD pirates are. pictures from different dates, locations, events. i am not going to repeat to post them. flooding this thread is the style of other posters.

for the prove of violence of DAAD the picture of somchai machete and his friend with the slingshot, the same picture, got posted again and again.

i pointed out why i disbelieve those pictures. i recommend to take a closer look at them. a closer look you should take at many " news", "messages" and so on. from both sides. don't believe everything you have been told. think for yourself!

tony c, john, can you follow my arguments? have an opinion?

if you use yourself dodgy and questionable "evidence" like this, all of your points become noncredible and implausible.

have you any interest to find the truth? or play you just a propaganda game?

In which magazine/newspaper where these photos published?

sriracha john claims "his" photo, the first one, the super dramatic one, comes from Reuters. but he can not prove it.

and actually it is not from reuters. i checked with Reuters and it is not from them. sriracha john lies if he say it is from Reuters.

"my" photos i found on a proPAD Cultist thai blog. and got taken aback by the simple fact how much a photo can manipulate our mind.

press photos got taken as images of reality, but are they actually one?

the first one, i admit a cool and perfect picture, pulsating, full of dynamic, movement, the composition. could get a price and would be all perfect if this would maybe a moment in time from a sports event.

but is it a documentary report with a unbias view on reality or is this picture very manipulating?

somchai machete looks so brute, threatening, dangerous, a sick piece of criminal with his murder weapon. right?

all the orchestration cave in if you see the same situation from another angle. the important second view.

somchai machete lost all his dynamic and so the picture if you see that is not from the war zone, the front. suddenly somchai machete looks like a muppet in front of dozens of photographers.

but this is not the real reality you see printed in the magazines. i saw similar situation from the intifada per example. on view 'young boy stone throwing' , the 2nd nonpublished, non-printed view the boy stone throwing in front of dozens photographers, like on a press conference.

another poster pointed out that it have been not the first time Reuters got caught with dodgy photos.

this time we can not blame Reuters, because it isn't a Reuters photo.

but keep in mind, don't believe everything you see. take a second and a closer look.

[dudemeister]

Some people are just not taking this whole thing seriously.

[robee]

"armed to the teeth"... usually those description refer to firearms or at least something more like this...

I'm sure you would be equally amused if the PAD thugs smacked you on the head with it SJ?

Big knives make good photos but the story line someone was trying to give us is that the band of thugs who took over Government House were unarmed, peaceful protesters.

There are hundreds of media pictures out there that show they were anything but unarmed or peaceful.

There are firsthand reports from Bloomberg and other reporters the night of the confrontation of bullets flying by them coming from the Government House toward the AAD mob.

PAD is for the most part armed and paid by the royalist/military/Bangkok elite who wish to overthrow an elected government and install their own henchmen to continue looting the government. Anything else is just fluff to disguise their motives.

~WISteve

I like dity politics and I like to play dirty.

If I were PAD, I would hire some trouble maker to dress in red and swing some big weapons around infront of the (foreign) camera-man. If I pro-govt, I would do the same, just switch the dress to yellow. It should only cost a few thousand baht per actor.

I am sure that both sides have already thought of that.

FAKE!

here some more photo from the fake session.

that picture of somchai machete is 100% staged and faked. that are just a few actors given brand new red shirts to pose with weapons to make "good" picture. perfect example how propaganda works and how pictures can lie.

just look at the time of the day the pictures have been made. do you see the sky in the background? it is dawn, but not at night time.

you see all the photographers/reporters sourround them?

ever seen those machete boys in action, in other situations?

for me it looks like a stupid stage play with poorly costumed actors.

there have been enough evidence and pictures posted how heavy armed the PAD pirates are. pictures from different dates, locations, events. i am not going to repeat to post them. flooding this thread is the style of other posters.

for the prove of violence of DAAD the picture of somchai machete and his friend with the slingshot, the same picture, got posted again and again.

i pointed out why i disbelieve those pictures. i recommend to take a closer look at them. a closer look you should take at many " news", "messages" and so on. from both sides. don't believe everything you have been told. think for yourself!

tony c, john, can you follow my arguments? have an opinion?

if you use yourself dodgy and questionable "evidence" like this, all of your points become noncredible and implausible.

have you any interest to find the truth? or play you just a propaganda game?

In which magazine/newspaper where these photos published?

sriracha john claims "his" photo, the first one, the super dramatic one, comes from Reuters. but he can not prove it.

and actually it is not from reuters. i checked with Reuters and it is not from them. sriracha john lies if he say it is from Reuters.

"my" photos i found on a proPAD Cultist thai blog. and got taken aback by the simple fact how much a photo can manipulate our mind.

press photos got taken as images of reality, but are they actually one?

the first one, i admit a cool and perfect picture, pulsating, full of dynamic, movement, the composition. could get a price and would be all perfect if this would maybe a moment in time from a sports event.

but is it a documentary report with a unbias view on reality or is this picture very manipulating?

somchai machete looks so brute, threatening, dangerous, a sick piece of criminal with his murder weapon. right?

all the orchestration cave in if you see the same situation from another angle. the important second view.

somchai machete lost all his dynamic and so the picture if you see that is not from the war zone, the front. suddenly somchai machete looks like a muppet in front of dozens of photographers.

but this is not the real reality you see printed in the magazines. i saw similar situation from the intifada per example. on view 'young boy stone throwing' , the 2nd nonpublished, non-printed view the boy stone throwing in front of dozens photographers, like on a press conference.

another poster pointed out that it have been not the first time Reuters got caught with dodgy photos.

this time we can not blame Reuters, because it isn't a Reuters photo.

but keep in mind, don't believe everything you see. take a second and a closer look.

thanks for post, helps to sort out propaganda from facts...

[sriracha john]

Review of Sondhi's World lecture tour, Seattle stop. Seems to me nothing's changed in his beliefs (quoted in full):

Hope the reviewer doesn't mind.

Could you please identify the writer?

[Moonrakers]

Would you all please stop it with this "fake" "Not fake crap"

i checked with Reuters and it is not from them. sriracha john lies if he say it is from Reuters.

And so because you say so it is fact?, are we all expected to believe that you actually had any corespondance from reuters just because you say so?

This is not directed solely at you permanent disorder (What's with the nick), but it is just an example of so called "facts" on this thread that are not/cannot be backed up.

I don't know of it is fake or not as I was not there, and I doubt that either permanent disorder or sriracha john or whoever was either and so how could either side know absolutely and without doubt hat these images where/where not doctored?

Sh*t even if the BBC/CNN filmed these shots of some people dressed in Red/Yellow kicking the sh*it out of some other person dressed in Yellow/red, then some TV poster would likely contest it depending on which side they where on.

Despite being sympathetic to the PAD I am willing to be proven wrong but neither side of the fake photo conspiracy is doing it for me. And I will stick my neck out here and say that other TV members here feel the same way.

This squabble is getting a tad childish now gents and so could somebody please come up with some HARD FACTS regarding these images or just let it go?

Please.

[permanent_disorder]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

I have read every word. And as a wolf in sheep's clothing, to represent 50:50 as a reasonable climbdown from 70:30 is still extremely dangerous for the democratic future of Thailand. There are 20mn farmers living on or just above the poverty line in this country and he is claiming they are the problem for the country. Stuff the less than 10mn upper and middle class who have been "taxed to the hilt". This country need someone who will take care of help the poor, not consign them to silence.

I don't like corruption, but all the parties have been involved since time immemorial. I didn't like Thaksin and his theft, and despised extra judicial killings.

I absolutely despise Sondhi and his elitist propaganda proclaiming that be reducing the value of the common man's vote will somehow set the country from moral doom. It is a lie that will turn Thailand back beyond any of our memories.

He is acting as the mouthpiece of a very select few people in the country who don't like free trade agreements, liberalisation in the banking sector, and potential privatisation of massively inefficient state enterprises. They don't want to see son's and daughters of farmers climbing out of the fields because that breaks the class rules of this country. This is a money and power show nothing more nothing less.

This is a business turf war trying to protect what they have got and prevent the real economic world coming to their doorstep.

Beyond 70:30, should the PAD succeed, I would not be even remotely surprised that we will read a few months later that just about every piece of legislation that could potentially open up Thailand to more business will be closed or strengthened.

For the misguided foreigners who support the PAD. Please don't come crying when your visa requirements are raised through roof and you need a PHD in Rocket Science to teach back street English should Sondhi get his way.

that really sums it up and should be in the spot.

i can imagine how it would possible to keep that little 70/30 dictatorship/cronyism running.

"charismatic" figures like pinochet, he have been popular in chile. got more support than salvadore allende.

but business/economy wise it's doomed, a miserable failure. ruin the country, send it many years back.

thailand will become an isolated state, somewhat like burma and foreigners get kicked out.

[who]

October, 1973: Thai army shoots protesters

Dozens of people have been killed in the Thai capital of Bangkok in street battles between government troops and demonstrators. Most of the victims were students from Thammasat University, who had gathered in large numbers for a second day of protests against the Thai military regime.

[Nampeung]

What's your point WHO ?

[kurtgruen]

October, 1973: Thai army shoots protesters

Dozens of people have been killed in the Thai capital of Bangkok in street battles between government troops and demonstrators. Most of the victims were students from Thammasat University, who had gathered in large numbers for a second day of protests against the Thai military regime.

and now, along with people from all other parts of society,including the Unions, they are gathered in protest against a corrupt and self-serving government. Still getting shot (also it is not clear yet, who shot and wounded the two student protesters on their way to Samak's home the other day).

[permanent_disorder]

i checked with Reuters and it is not from them. sriracha john lies if he say it is from Reuters.

And so because you say so it is fact?, are we all expected to believe that you actually had any corespondance from reuters just because you say so?

This squabble is getting a tad childish now gents and so could somebody please come up with some HARD FACTS regarding these images or just let it go?

is it from Reuters, because sriracha john said so?

okay, if it's really from Reuters it would be an easy task for sriracha john to prove it, right?

coming from reuters, that is the "HARD FACT" sriracha john presents us as the the reason, the final truth, that all must be real what we can see on the picture.

but he will fail to prove it. it is not from Reuters. and it dosn't prove so much.

if you follow my arguments, you will see this picture is twisted with doubt. i recommend always to take a second look and to think for yourself.

read the post where you quoted my line from. it is more a propaganda picture, than a picture with documentary value.

just juxtapose for the sake of comparison the so called Reuters "document" with the picture of the 3 muppets in front of dozens "documentarists".

that is how HARD FACTS get fabricated.

my central point is a question:

but is it a documentary report with a unbias view on reality or is this picture very manipulating?

this is just a demonstration on an example. few pages back an other TVmember, posted a few links about cases of manipulation of "HARD FACT" in the media. pro or contra media, don't believe everything without a closer look. keep your doubt. don't follow a cult with simlified "get out, get out" messages.

don't judge others by their nick name.

sorry if this "Reuters or not" a little bit enervating for you. the answer plays a marginal role in my interpretation of that picture.

but i could not resist to call sriracha john a liar. he posted it first, he didn't name or link the source and much later he just lie it's from Reuter. is it not.

[kurtgruen]

i checked with Reuters and it is not from them. sriracha john lies if he say it is from Reuters.

And so because you say so it is fact?, are we all expected to believe that you actually had any corespondance from reuters just because you say so?

This squabble is getting a tad childish now gents and so could somebody please come up with some HARD FACTS regarding these images or just let it go?

is it from Reuters, because sriracha john said so?

okay, if it's really from Reuters it would be an easy task for sriracha john to prove it, right?

coming from reuters, that is the "HARD FACT" sriracha john presents us as the the reason, the final truth, that all must be real what we can see on the picture.

but he will fail to prove it. it is not from Reuters. and it dosn't prove so much.

if you follow my arguments, you will see this picture is twisted with doubt. i recommend always to take a second look and to think for yourself.

read the post where you quoted my line from. it is more a propaganda picture, than a picture with documentary value.

just juxtapose for the sake of comparison the so called Reuters "document" with the picture of the 3 muppets in front of dozens "documentarists".

that is how HARD FACTS get fabricated.

my central point is a question:

but is it a documentary report with a unbias view on reality or is this picture very manipulating?

this is just a demonstration on an example. few pages back an other TVmember, posted a few links about cases of manipulation of "HARD FACT" in the media. pro or contra media, don't believe everything without a closer look. keep your doubt. don't follow a cult with simlified "get out, get out" messages.

don't judge others by their nick name.

sorry if this "Reuters or not" a little bit enervating for you. the answer plays a marginal role in my interpretation of that picture.

but i could not resist to call sriracha john a liar. he posted it first, he didn't name or link the source and much later he just lie it's from Reuter. is it not.

Would you guys get off it, with the pictures? I'm sure some of you seen it live on TV, just like I did. There is no doubt whatsoever that it happened. There was what looked to me as an angry, riled up DAAD mob, who was armed with machetties, sticks, bats, etc., marching towards the PAD camp, breaking through the police barricade (if you really want to call it that, because the police just moved aside for them to pass), throwing things and storming towards the PAD barricades, that is what I seen with my own eyes. Why anybody would want to deny the truth, is beyond me. I have no reason to make this up. I seen it.

Some of the reporters later commented, that the DAAD mob smelled of alcohol and that a lot of them where drunk. That part, I wouldn't be able to confirm, because I wasn't there to smell them, but it sure looked like some of them where, when they marched against the PAD.

There seems to be a real effort to turn black into white in this forum. I don't get it. I guess I was starting out with the assumption, that we are all mature adults in here.

Good night everyone.

Hope it will be a peaceful one again

[sriracha john]

You're right, it's not Reuters...

it's that OTHER organization that creates world turmoil through faked photos...

the one that Sondhi controls 100% of it's media resources...

the Associated Press.

With apologies to that aren't permanently disordered themselves, in the rush I made an mistake of remembering it as Reuters. Sorry for my lapse in the rush, but at least it created some amusing posts for the conspiracy-minded.

Thai pro-government protestors wield a sling and a knife against anti-government demonstrators near the Government House, in Bangkok early morning Tuesday Sept 2, 2008. Thailand's prime minister declared a state of emergency in the capital Tuesday after street fighting overnight between opponents and supporters of the government left one man dead and dozens of people injured.

Associated Press

LINK:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/ph...ef2a5000e673c7/

Can we all go to sleep now, or did you need to get some more name-calling in?

Seriously... get some help.

Edited September 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[Tony Clifton]

Samak was fast with filing treason charges but no one agreed with him. Police are not trying to arrest them because even they think it's a political, not a criminal matter, let alone treason.

Same with Thaksin. It is political, not a criminal matter.

I've never heard of treason charges against Thaksin although he' did act as a traitor on many occasions when saying multiple time he feared for his life in his country while there but especially and cowardly while abroad making up many imaginary and ridiculous assassination attempts that are all but a figment of his imagination.

A criminal using and blaming his country over and over to draw sympathy IS treason in my book, especially when done abroad.

All this while carrying his precious diplomatic passport.

No shame, nor remorse...

That's Coward The Great for you.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Tony Clifton