State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[Tony Clifton]

Can anyone indicate the original source of these pictures and where they can be downloaded apart from Thaivisa?

Edited September 9, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[ando]

Can anyone indicate the original source of these pictures and where they can be downloaded apart from Thaivisa?

Try contacting the PAD Production Company C/- Government House Bangkok.

[sriracha john]

tony c, john, can you follow my arguments? have an opinion?

I'd recommend you contact Reuters with an inquiry over their photographs.

that means you can not think for yourself, right?

No, that means they were Reuters' photos and if you have doubts over their veracity, then you should make an inquiry with them.

102-1.jpg was the name of the photo but that was cropped down from their original lengthy name. I'm sure if you sent them a copy they would be able to identify it specifically.

I think he is trying to make a point that You and TClifton are the main people that post clear PAD propaganda from PAD web pages or ASTV. As it has been demonstrated above it is easy to see how your PAD mob clowns spread total rubbish which you guys eat up. I guess its all a part of PAD's dirty campaign to overthrow democracy. At least post proven facts instead of total one sided rubbish which you guys have been brainwashed by. One fact is that PAD guards beat a man to death... So much for a peaceful protests.

The photo was from Reuters. Are they part of the "PAD propaganda"? What was their response to permanent disorder's inquiry? What is the source of permanent disorder's accusations? Are you interested in facts at all or are you just preferring to post unfounded, derogatory comments aimed at other members? If it's the former, then I would suggest waiting to hear from the other side (Reuters) and if it's the latter, good luck.

[permanent_disorder]

FAKE!

here some more photo from the fake session.

you see all the photographers/reporters sourround them?

Yes, they followed them all night. MOSTLY FROM BEHIND THE ACTION, NOT BETWEEN CAMPS, hence the group ofphotographers seen above, and none were targeted from both sides, if you look long enough you will probably recognise some of them or their helmets on pictures and footage taken earlier in night in other surroundings.

ever seen those machete boys in action, in other situations?

No, the thugs in Udon all had their faces covered.

for me it looks like a stupid stage play with poorly costumed actors.

To YOU yes, and you have some pretty strange theories with no concrete proof to back it all up, just like above with your time of day.

have you any interest to find the truth?

We found the truth quite a while ago, which is that TRT-PPP and the other thieving thugs ....

My text in purple

okay, i have my doubts with these pictures, but you don't have to follow my points where i see something odd and strange.

now you telling me that phtographers have been followed them all night. WHERE are the other pictures? there must be a lot of them, given the number of photographers. where are the pictures of all the other drunks you seems to know about? in case you don't know, i am not talking about thugs in ubon, i am talking about bangkok, that DAAD demonstration.

all what have been shown, to prove how bad and whatever the DAAD are it was always only the picture of somchai machete. i am sceptical of many things and don't believe everything. that picture alone is not evidence enough for me.

pictures of samak having a snack proves only little for. that is a pointless flooding of this thread.

and i don't claim that pictures are doctored or that i am a professional in to draw a perfect straight arrow. the pictures are just show what was to been seen.

and i did my interpretation what we can see here. lots of photographers in the need of a good picture they didn't got at night time. and some dressed up actors given a show.

pictures that remainds me on the green helmet guy.

or the passion for toys of war photographers

http://www.slublog.com/archives/2006/08/the_passion_of.html

take a look at the link and tell me if you can believe everything you can see on a picture

Can anyone indicate the original source of these pictures and where they can be downloaded apart from Thaivisa?

that is good question. wouldn't doubt your first reaction if you see pictures that shows the opposite of your believe? would you give the picture any credibility without the source mentioned.

you don't know where the pictures came from, but because you " found the truth quite a while ago ", you know that all true, can exlude any possibility that this might be staged, exclude all possibility of doubt. are you a religious person? i think you mix faith and believe with truth and knowlegde. there is a difference. a good way to gain the latter is start asking questions and don't believe everything without doubt.

one last question:

Tony Clifton wrote:

" if you look long enough you will probably recognise some of them or their helmets on pictures and footage taken earlier in night in other surroundings."

HOW LONG do i have to look at the pictures to see any helmets? i did it quite a while but no helmets appear. are i am blind or do you have visions? anyone else see their helmets? but anyone who don't see any helmets must be part of a bunch of what ever, right? only the people know the truth can see the helmets, right? so let's ask sriracha john, do you see any helmets here?

[catmac]

Can anyone indicate the original source of these pictures and where they can be downloaded apart from Thaivisa?

So now you've admitted that you have no idea where these dodgy photos came from. How very convenient.

[Tony Clifton]

Oh, and opportunist Catmac jumps in on this permanent-disorder mess saying the pictures are dodgy as well without proof.

You are a complete waste of time.

Have a good day.

I ll find the pics don't worry.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Plus]

Got nothing else to say apart from a wild conspiracy theory that PAD supplied doctored pictures to Reuters?

That guy is a permanent_disorder, what about the rest of you, PAD bashers?

Back on topic - isn't it the time to close it down? Or wait until SOE is formally lifted?

[permanent_disorder]

there have been enough evidence and pictures posted how heavy armed the PAD pirates are.

pictures from different dates, locations, events. i am not going to repeat to post them. flooding this thread is the style of other posters.

Flooding... You are not going to repeat because you simply don't have and can't post concrete proof of what you are advancing here, still, if you do, which I highly doubt, you seem too lazy or disorganised to gather it all up in one clear and concise post that would eliminate all doubt, hence your total loss of credibility, same goes with your previous claims. You only bring more doubt with what you advance here.

My text in purple

okay, some picture of the helmet team?

caption:A government supporter is kicked by an anti-government demonstrator after the two sides clashed a few blocks from the Government House in Bangkok early morning September 2, 2008.

caption:An anti-government demonstrator stands above an injured government supporter after the two sides clashed several blocks from the Government House in Bangkok early morning September 2, 2008.

caption:An injured government supporter struggles with an anti-government demonstrator after he was attacked several blocks from the Government House....

caption:Government supporters lie injured after clashes with anti-government demonstrators several blocks from the Government House ...

what you think yellow cap tells here the photographer?

the police is often criticised here. for being absent, not protecting the PAD and coming to late to the spot. there are also as fact presented accusations that was planned and intented. prove? evidence?

in relation to this i want show two pictures from the weekend before.

caption:Anti-government protesters holding home made weapons and a police shield rally in the Royal Plaza in Bangkok, Thailand, Saturday, Aug. 30, 2008. ...

caption:Anti-government demonstrators wait for riot training Saturday, Aug. 30, 2008, near Government House in Bangkok, Thailand. . ...

i think that shows clearly, in this area was no police. riot fighter even spot captured police gear. peace team yellow do a riot training.

couldn't be one reason for the abscene of the police be, that the police had the order to avoid any contact, to avoid any quarrel, any reason what could those trained riot fighters as welcomed provocation?

so for sure the police is away in a very safety distance. is it now anyhow logistical possible for the police to build a safety belt or something like that. for what anyway? protect riot fighters?

one more point to the riot training picture and the often heard comment, the weapens, the training and all are just for self defense? what you think did they get some instructions on self defense?

now some videos, i spend some time watching a lot of videos, all of them TV coverage. lot of them very similar, mostly yellow shirts using sling shot or beat and stab red shirts laying on the ground.

the first video contains footage of the normal DAAD demonstration, you can see a couple of protesters with wood sticks, but not all of them. also normal people of different generations enjoying their right of a walk against dictatorship.

i would like to know if there somewhere more pictures. suddendly the video switch to violence. it ends with pictures of a person who seems to have a fractured skull or a smashed head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sizynp62Lag

the second video show how this happen. why this person seems to have a fractured skull or a smashed head and who beats him up. start at 0:43.

i don't know if this is the dead one, but all the fights shows pretty much the evidence that this are attemps to kill. non of victims looks like a dangerous street fighter machine you can only stop with the final switch off. nothing looks like self defense.

still only a window in time. i didn't found any coverage of the action from the red shirt team. that dosn't mean there was anything.

one minute of silence from the PAD for the dead, how kind.

there have been more TV cameras around, showing the scene from different angles, the clothes they wear, the helmets, backpacks and witnesses standing around, they could be identified. anyone knows if over there in the pirate camp internal investigations are running?

what images, propaganda or counter evidence the sondhi channel is running?

[sriracha john]

http://www.slublog.com/archives/2006/08/the_passion_of.html

take a look at the link and tell me if you can believe everything you can see on a picture

I must say it's encouraging they follow the truth-in-advertising laws....

Any word back yet from Reuters on your inquiry?

[NanaFoods]

The photo was from Reuters.

Reuters, eh?

That name raises suspicions.

Reuters has been caught faking photos from Lebanon:

http://zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286966,00.html

Reuters has also been caught with their pants down in Serbia & Georgia:

http://www.byzantinesacredart.com/blog/200...with_pictu.html

Could Thailand be next?

I'm not trying to conclude anything here just yet...

but when the name Reuters comes up - Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)

[permanent_disorder]

Got nothing else to say apart from a wild conspiracy theory that PAD supplied doctored pictures to Reuters?

That guy is a permanent_disorder, what about the rest of you, PAD bashers?

Back on topic - isn't it the time to close it down? Or wait until SOE is formally lifted?

who said the pictures are from reuters?

prove, evidence, a link?

and i don't claim that pictures are doctored. the pictures are just show what was to been seen. a show, a stage play.

pictures that reminds me on the green helmet guy.

or the passion for toys of war photographers

http://www.slublog.com/archives/2006/08/the_passion_of.html

take a look at the link and tell me if you can believe everything you can see on a picture. reuters & AP pictures.

in press and media history you will find many cases of staged pictures.

is everything you don't want believe just a "wild conspiracy theory"?

is it so devious that who ever just staged a show like that?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello.

You can discuss about the pictures all you want. has anyone watched Thai TV (channel 9) yesterday, around 11 PM? It was some sort of documentary or report about people affected by the PAD's mob occupying that area. Strangely, the report concentrated on a toilet bus driver, a couple of homeless and a whole bunch of female and Khatoey prostitutes (stating things like "before they came i had ten customers per night, and now i have no income because nobody comes here", yes that was on public television!)

Within that report there was video from the night the DAAD attacked. You may be able to "doctor" pictures but it is hard to do so (or "stage" an event) when there's hundreds of people, including cops, involved.

And that video showed VERY clearly who attacked who and what weapons were used by either side - mainly machete-type things and iron bars from the DAAD, wooden sticks on PAD's side.

Yes, it turned into a bloody battle but the DAAD's guys were the ones who started by attacking the sitting PAD, and of course those fought back, and in the heat of such fight even a DAAD guy who's already on the ground gets some more. His own fault - if you go to battle, expect being beaten up, simple as that. Had they not attacked, they wouldn't have gotten hurt.

What you could ALSO see was yellow t-shirted guys helping to get the wounded red t-shirted guys up and out of the heat spot or into ambulances. No such action on DAAD's side, they didn't seem to care for their own wounded. Only a few PAD "thugs" kept hammering guys already down (and i won't defend those in any way, shape or form), while the ones in the red shirts did routinely so.

Sometimes it's worth to watch television to get a somewhat unbiased view (and to either understand some Thai or have a Thai person sitting beside to explain real-time what's going on).

best regards.....

Thanh

[Artisi]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

[Plus]

PPP MPs sent those stupid DAAD thugs to fight a losing battle with PAD's guards, they were outnumbered like 1 to 10, and intoxicated. Next morning PPP's leader announces State of Emergency because they got badly beaten.

In the meantime, any progress on Udon lynch mob where same thugs attacked absolutely peaceful and unprotected PAD rally? State of Emergency in Udon? Yeah, right.

Instead the instigator is back in the spotlight again, promising more to come.

I don't know in all honesty how people can defend PPP's strategy or their hired thugs here.

[blaze]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

What is the agenda of 'these people'?

[Journalist]

Hello.

You can discuss about the pictures all you want. has anyone watched Thai TV (channel 9) yesterday, around 11 PM? It was some sort of documentary or report about people affected by the PAD's mob occupying that area. Strangely, the report concentrated on a toilet bus driver, a couple of homeless and...

Thats the sort of job you get if you boycott your university classes.

[permanent_disorder]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

What is the agenda of 'these people'?

confusing the "somewhat unbiased view" you can get if you watch a thai TV report about a "toilet bus driver", with "Thai person sitting beside to explain real-time what's going on" ?

[Meerkat]

It seems to me that you've got wild accusations - often with very little or very subjective supporting "evidence" - coming from both camps. Those that believe what they see on ASTV are as naive as those that believe what they see on NBT. It is somewhat incredible that some people, again from both sides, are so quick to repeat hearsay that fits their ideology as fact, and dismiss anything said by their opponents as so obviously a lie that only someone deluded/paid would dare repeat it. Such unsubstantiated "facts" then take on a life of their own - repeat the same lie often enough and all that.

It is incredibly insulting, even if such insults are (usually) sufficiently veiled to get past forum rules.

Why should "your" side, whichever that may be, be the only side to be broadcasting "the truth" when it is patently obvious that we're in the middle of a huge propaganda war?

Even Sondhi said in the Crispin interview the other day that you can't believe everything his lot say. If he can admit it, why can't anybody else?

[Artisi]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

What is the agenda of 'these people'?

Does it really need an explanation - I don't think so.

[kurtgruen]

Can anyone indicate the original source of these pictures and where they can be downloaded apart from Thaivisa?

So now you've admitted that you have no idea where these dodgy photos came from. How very convenient.

Give me a break, I watched the live footage on TV that night. The pictures are accurate of what happened that night. There must have been some other people two, who watched it live (not just the few propaganda cuts of it on NBT)?

That is actually, where I think the problem starts. A lot of people only seen the cut, government version of events happening. I want to throw up in disgust, everytime I watch a bit of so called news on NBT. Often I ask restaurants to turn it off, while I am eating. If you didn't see it on TV that night, that means that you either where sleeping by then (like most people), or you where watching the wrong channel.

[kurtgruen]

PPP MPs sent those stupid DAAD thugs to fight a losing battle with PAD's guards, they were outnumbered like 1 to 10, and intoxicated. Next morning PPP's leader announces State of Emergency because they got badly beaten.

In the meantime, any progress on Udon lynch mob where same thugs attacked absolutely peaceful and unprotected PAD rally? State of Emergency in Udon? Yeah, right.

Instead the instigator is back in the spotlight again, promising more to come.

I don't know in all honesty how people can defend PPP's strategy or their hired thugs here.

Thank you, I couldn't have said it better!

[h90]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

I doubt it is their agenda.....

[h90]

Hello.

You can discuss about the pictures all you want. has anyone watched Thai TV (channel 9) yesterday, around 11 PM? It was some sort of documentary or report about people affected by the PAD's mob occupying that area. Strangely, the report concentrated on a toilet bus driver, a couple of homeless and a whole bunch of female and Khatoey prostitutes (stating things like "before they came i had ten customers per night, and now i have no income because nobody comes here", yes that was on public television!)

Within that report there was video from the night the DAAD attacked. You may be able to "doctor" pictures but it is hard to do so (or "stage" an event) when there's hundreds of people, including cops, involved.

And that video showed VERY clearly who attacked who and what weapons were used by either side - mainly machete-type things and iron bars from the DAAD, wooden sticks on PAD's side.

Yes, it turned into a bloody battle but the DAAD's guys were the ones who started by attacking the sitting PAD, and of course those fought back, and in the heat of such fight even a DAAD guy who's already on the ground gets some more. His own fault - if you go to battle, expect being beaten up, simple as that. Had they not attacked, they wouldn't have gotten hurt.

What you could ALSO see was yellow t-shirted guys helping to get the wounded red t-shirted guys up and out of the heat spot or into ambulances. No such action on DAAD's side, they didn't seem to care for their own wounded. Only a few PAD "thugs" kept hammering guys already down (and i won't defend those in any way, shape or form), while the ones in the red shirts did routinely so.

Sometimes it's worth to watch television to get a somewhat unbiased view (and to either understand some Thai or have a Thai person sitting beside to explain real-time what's going on).

best regards.....

Thanh

Another proof that PAD damage local economic :D

[Publicus]

This guy nails it

Rule of Lords: Victory of Thailand's coup-makers

<H5 class=detailsubmit>Awzar Thi

05 September 2008

Pick to Post</H5>Hong Kong, China — Two years to the month since the army in Thailand launched its latest takeover of government, the proof of its success is in the mayhem and madness on the streets ofBangkok and the utter farce to which politics there has again descended.

On the one side is a prime minister who is as much an accident of history as a denier of it, a dinosaur politician who should by now have been extinct from public life, let alone leading it; a man who at times can hardly form a coherent sentence, let alone a coherent government.

He and the gaggle of Thaksinites that gathered around him in a rebranded party for last year's ballot were at the time cast as saviors of the masses, come to take democracy back from the generals. They may have won the vote, but the army, which quietly shelved plans for its own candidates, had in the meantime moved the playing field.

On the other side is an alliance of people united in their hatred of the ousted prime minister, and increasingly, of anybody else connected to him; an alliance motivated to oppose the elected government's plans to amend a Constitution that a military junta forced down the country's throat.

It is also an alliance whose foremost demand on behalf of democracy is that it wants less of it, and that too at a time that the country already has less of it than it did before the army had its way in September 2006. Half of the 150 seats in the Senate are now appointees, and how many people know who they are or how they got there, let alone what they do?

That the whole parliamentary process is at its lowest ebb since the early 1990s is exactly what the generals and their backers intended. Although the coup was aimed at removing that manager and manipulator of party politics, Thaksin Shinawatra, and dismantling his network, he was just the embodiment of the main target: the party political system itself.

Why are the armed forces of Thailand, or rather, their leaders, so hostile to a working party-based system of elected government?

In part because Thailand had the fortune never to be colonized, it did not become a home to political movements of the sort that grew from the historic nationalist struggles in some of its neighbors. There was never a Congress Party or Freedom League to emerge along with new ideas about political process and participatory government.

Instead, successive military regimes forged their own brand of mass politics and took it upon themselves to organize and direct people toward the sort of tasks that might otherwise have been undertaken by political parties, shaping an image of modernity in their own likenesses.

After all that, the May 1992 fiasco was a big fall from grace for the army. It had failed to keep up with changing public sentiment. Its image of modernity was no longer that of millions of its compatriots. It had lost the plot.

In 1997 the new Constitution greatly enhanced the authority of civilian and independent bodies as against those of the old powerbrokers, and strengthened the hand of parliamentary government considerably.

Thaksin recognized the opportunities and took every one that he could get, at the expense of many lives and liberties. But he also did something that had not been done before, successfully building a party with widespread appeal that campaigned both on policy and on personality.

Contrast that with the old-style alliance that Samak Sundaravej cobbled together last year. When asked about policies, he said that they'd take care of them later. What policies his Thai Rak Thai-lookalike party had campaigned upon were in fact recycled from the former government. After that, it was just one cock-up after another.

Back in 2006 amid the blind euphoria at Thaksin's demise, a few sane voices warned that the military coup would, first, wind the country's political clock back to the 1980s, and second, not end turmoil and violence but only exacerbate both for years to come.

Unfortunately, both of those warnings have proven correct. Today Thailand is slipping toward the "half-sail" democracy of earlier decades. A triumvirate of soldiers and a policeman is running Bangkok. Whatever happens, the street battles and confused yelling from camp to camp are not going to end any time soon. Why should they? After all, they are the fruits of the coup-makers' victory.

--

(Awzar Thi is the pen name of a member of the Asian Human Rights Commission with over 15 years of experience as an advocate of human rights and the rule of law in Thailand and Burma. His Rule of Lords blog can be read at http://ratchasima.net)

Who'll join me in advocating actual democracy in Thailand, if mostly as a learing process for the Thai people rather than a thing in and of itself?

How about such radical constitutional changes that empower the population to elect the governor of their respective province, not only in Bangkok, but in each and every Thai province? Same for country and municipal officials?

This business of centralizing and focusing all of the power and control in the government in Bangkok is simply not succeeding. It hasn't succeeded nor would it ever succeed. The over centralization and concentration of all power to the government in Bangkok ever increasingly leads to the gargantuan struggles, such the one we're seeing now, that pit the elites against one another for the winner take all control of the central government and, thus, all of Thailand's national government apparatuses right down to dogcatcher (should there be such a position in Thai government!).

The central government in Bangkok appoints provincial governors, county and municipal officials etc etc. Who'll join me in presenting the alternative of devolving or, decentralizing, the politics and government of Thailand to allow for regional diversity, to empower voters in their own province, county and municipality?

The present system and its trajectory offers us an unending series of Faustian choices of PPP/TRT etc vs PAD and whomever else. Consequently, as total and conmplete, centralized and national control from Bangkok demonstrates, the present system keeps getting worse as it speeds down the road to nowhere.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Publicus

[Samuian]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

PR Team, on the pay list, conspiracy artists, con-men ? Heaven knows and who knows how to inform onesself, no matter what and where, why care or even pay attention to such utter rubbish ?

[Old Man River]

The link below is to a very well done interview by Shawn Crispin with Sondhi Limthongkul (PAD leader). The interview is titled "What Sondhi Really Wants for Thailand", and if anyone is interested in understanding the PAD, then reading this (it is a long interview) will be worth it.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JI09Ae01.html

[kurtgruen]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

What is the agenda of 'these people'?

I have no idea, but most of them seem to be taking the side of two criminals...Thaksin and Samak (Thaksin still at large with arrest warrants out for him) and a politial party (PPP) that refuses to revoke a criminals diplomatic passport. If that is what they call democracy, they can keep it, as far as I am concerned.

[Artisi]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

I doubt it is their agenda.....

Maybe I should change the word agenda to - views - as in " --- they are so obessed with their own views ---", this should help clarify the intent.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Artisi

[kurtgruen]

Well, I am going for lunch.

Hopefully, when I get back, the State of Emergency will be over. If not, I'LL BE BAAACK lol. Time to go ask the Thais at the restaurant..."So, what happened to Samak" ;-)

[JoeInSurin]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

What is the agenda of 'these people'?

I have no idea, but most of them seem to be taking the side of two criminals...Thaksin and Samak (Thaksin still at large with arrest warrants out for him) and a politial party (PPP) that refuses to revoke a criminals diplomatic passport. If that is what they call democracy, they can keep it, as far as I am concerned.

The 9 PAD leaders are still a large with arrest warrants out for them also. Why is this OK and they get your support. I think both are bad and would choose not to support either one.

Edited September 10, 2008 by JoeInSurin