State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[permanent_disorder]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

I doubt it is their agenda.....

Maybe I should change the word agenda to - views - as in " --- they are so obessed with their own views ---", this should help clarify the intent.

maybe you should come to a point instead of saying actual noting. or just go watch television.

[animatic]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

What is the agenda of 'these people'?

I have no idea, but most of them seem to be taking the side of two criminals...Thaksin and Samak (Thaksin still at large with arrest warrants out for him) and a politial party (PPP) that refuses to revoke a criminals diplomatic passport. If that is what they call democracy, they can keep it, as far as I am concerned.

The 9 PAD leaders are still a large with arrest warrants out for them also. Why is this OK and they get your support. I think both are bad and would choose not to support either one.

Effectively the PAD leaders are locked down in one place.

They can't go anywhere except in to the hands of the authorities.

That doesn't really seem 'at large.' in the sense of unknown whereabouts and free to roam.

Also to take them into custody would require a level of violence that NO ONE wants to see.

They have refused to turn themselves in as an act of civil disobedience for a cause,

as opposed to being purely criminals for their own gain or personal freedom from incarceration.

Whilein both cases they are round, it is apples and oranges.

Edited September 10, 2008 by animatic

[JoeInSurin]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

What is the agenda of 'these people'?

I have no idea, but most of them seem to be taking the side of two criminals...Thaksin and Samak (Thaksin still at large with arrest warrants out for him) and a politial party (PPP) that refuses to revoke a criminals diplomatic passport. If that is what they call democracy, they can keep it, as far as I am concerned.

The 9 PAD leaders are still a large with arrest warrants out for them also. Why is this OK and they get your support. I think both are bad and would choose not to support either one.

Effectively the PAD leaders are locked down in one place. By their own chosing.

They can't go anywhere except in to the hands of the authorities. Thats usually where you would go if a warrent was out for you.

That doesn't really seem 'at large.' in the sense of unknown whereabouts and free to roam. They are free to turn themselves in with their lawyers, post bail and have their day in court.

Also to take them into custody would require a level of violence that NO ONE wants to see.

They have refused to turn themselves in as an act of civil disobedience for a cause, So this makes it OK?

as opposed to being purely criminals for their own gain or personal freedom from incarceration.

Whilein both cases they are round, it is apples and oranges. Both are rotten.

[permanent_disorder]

The PAD armed thugs took over the NBT station with semi-automatic weapons, clubs, golf clubs ect. and many had drugs on them. This happened before the illegal take over of the Government House and before the DAAD ralley. You don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Hi

I still don't believe those were actual PAD members. Why in the world would THAT group be heavily armed, while the whole rest of PAD didn't even have a wooden stick on them??

Ever heard the term "setup"? All they (government/DAAD) have/had to do is send their own, in yellow t-shirts, to create some highly public chaos and destruction and voila, everyone thinks it was actually PAD. Well, i do NOT think so.

Thanh

did you saw that on television? or is it your own vision?

what the PAD-Cultist thinking about? is this a pretty strange theory, a wild conspiracy theory, a waste of time and utter rubbish?

or is it true. drunken udon thugs got paid by government from hel_l.

or an agenda by those people?

time for a academic voice to get a direction. is there someone else behind?

"The PAD leaders just lead the demonstrations, but are henchmen for much more influential and higher-up people. ...

But one is made to think why there have been such concerted efforts among various bodies in shaking up and attacking the government like this. The PAD kicked the ball. The media cheered. Political parties joined in, and passed the ball to the courts. And the courts shot the goal. Do these groups just converge by pure chance or a miracle? Apart from the courts, these groups overlap with those who killed students on Oct 6, 1976. This is a historical continuity. They are the same interest groups. Some are even the same persons."

Chaiyan Ratchakul, History Department, Faculty of Humanities, Chiang Mai University

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=707

[Plus]

Samak was fast with filing treason charges but no one agreed with him. Police are not trying to arrest them because even they think it's a political, not a criminal matter, let alone treason.

[JoeInSurin]

Samak was fast with filing treason charges but no one agreed with him. Police are not trying to arrest them because even they think it's a political, not a criminal matter, let alone treason.

Then why was their appeal denied?

Appeals Court rejects PAD's plea against arrest warrants

<H2></H2>

The Appeals Court Tuesday rejects an appeal by the nine leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy, seeking to annul their arrest warrants.

The court decided that the arrest warrants were properly issued in line with the Criminal Procedural Code's Artcle 68 so the court rejected the appeal.

The Nation

[Old Man River]

Thanh

I feel you are wasting your time trying to talk to some of these people - they are so obsessed with their own agenda they can't see anything other than what they want to see. Unfortunate people in my mind.

What is the agenda of 'these people'?

I have no idea, but most of them seem to be taking the side of two criminals...Thaksin and Samak (Thaksin still at large with arrest warrants out for him) and a politial party (PPP) that refuses to revoke a criminals diplomatic passport. If that is what they call democracy, they can keep it, as far as I am concerned.

The 9 PAD leaders are still a large with arrest warrants out for them also. Why is this OK and they get your support. I think both are bad and would choose not to support either one.

Effectively the PAD leaders are locked down in one place.

Also to take them into custody would require a level of violence that NO ONE wants to see.

That is my take on this as well. They will have their day in court, although we don't know when.

[Plus]

Samak was fast with filing treason charges but no one agreed with him. Police are not trying to arrest them because even they think it's a political, not a criminal matter, let alone treason.

Then why was their appeal denied?

The courts are not doing the arraigning of suspects, and from their point of view everything was correct. It's the police who think the charges are over the top, allegedly. The desire not to provoke an unnecessary confrontation can also play a significant role in police dragging their feet.

[Tony Clifton]

Can anyone indicate the original source of these pictures and where they can be downloaded apart from Thaivisa?

So now you've admitted that you have no idea where these dodgy photos came from. How very convenient.

Give me a break, I watched the live footage on TV that night. The pictures are accurate of what happened that night. There must have been some other people two, who watched it live (not just the few propaganda cuts of it on NBT)?

That is actually, where I think the problem starts. A lot of people only seen the cut, government version of events happening. I want to throw up in disgust, everytime I watch a bit of so called news on NBT. Often I ask restaurants to turn it off, while I am eating. If you didn't see it on TV that night, that means that you either where sleeping by then (like most people), or you where watching the wrong channel.

I also saw the footage live as well. At one point there was even a column of smoke rising between two buildings at the square/intersection where the sling shot guy is. They were also howling at people living in those buildings daring them to come out and fight, strangers in a

a city 500 km away from theirs.

You can look up my posts on that night/day and see I was following events flipping chanels and posting all along from evening until about noon the next day.

I don't need to see the source of the pictures to know if they were fake or not, nor do I need to fabricate anything about it.

Nothing can be done about pro-TRT-PPP zombie's constant state of denial following ttheir own actions blowing up in their faces.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[kurtgruen]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed. Best regards.....

Thanh

Beautiful and accurate statement :-) I am sitting here with another German, confirming what you said, along with an Englishman. Thank you, Thanh.

Now if we could just get the international support, like Germany had from the West, but I don't think it will come, because the West loves Thailand just the way it was up until recently (easily exploited, cheap labour, etc.)

[h90]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed.

Best regards.....

Thanh

And funny that most East Germans miss the good old time. While the BRD is more and more setting up a STASI like system on checking everyone "Glaeserne Konten" checking the privat emails, checking privat letters, checking who imports what goods and asking for which reason you need these goods, etc etc....

Well Miss Ferkel is from the East...So the East Germans get: more and more the same level of control, less security than before but much more consumer goods.

[Guest Reimar]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed. Best regards.....

Thanh

Beautiful and accurate statement :-) I am sitting here with another German, confirming what you said, along with an Englishman. Thank you, Thanh.

Now if we could just get the international support, like Germany had from the West, but I don't think it will come, because the West loves Thailand just the way it was up until recently (easily exploited, cheap labour, etc.)

I've some friends (Thais) who supporting PAD and know some (Thai's) who close to the Top Ten of PAD and also know some poor (Thais) who also supporting PAD! Not one of them ever evidently know of any payments done to get "protester" or better "supporter" to the events of the PAD.

On the other hand, those Thais I know and supporting PAD in any way, would never take anything from the PAD as kind benefit. Even the a bit better situated Thais paying for their food and didn't take the free food but leave it for the poor who can't afford to buy everything. Who of this supporters I know are able to even give something to the PAD done exactly that.

And all of that Thais are well educated humans and everything but stupid!

And did you really think that the PAD supporters didn't have the right to defend themself? Shame on you if you think like that!

I don't mean kurtgruen and Thanh by the way, I really appreciate what they wrote above.

Cheers.

[h90]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed. Best regards.....

Thanh

Beautiful and accurate statement :-) I am sitting here with another German, confirming what you said, along with an Englishman. Thank you, Thanh.

Now if we could just get the international support, like Germany had from the West, but I don't think it will come, because the West loves Thailand just the way it was up until recently (easily exploited, cheap labour, etc.)

I've some friends (Thais) who supporting PAD and know some (Thai's) who close to the Top Ten of PAD and also know some poor (Thais) who also supporting PAD! Not one of them ever evidently know of any payments done to get "protester" or better "supporter" to the events of the PAD.

On the other hand, those Thais I know and supporting PAD in any way, would never take anything from the PAD as kind benefit. Even the a bit better situated Thais paying for their food and didn't take the free food but leave it for the poor who can't afford to buy everything. Who of this supporters I know are able to even give something to the PAD done exactly that.

And all of that Thais are well educated humans and everything but stupid!

And did you really think that the PAD supporters didn't have the right to defend themself? Shame on you if you think like that!

I don't mean kurtgruen and Thanh by the way, I really appreciate what they wrote above.

Cheers.

Both my wife and staff are always giving money there, (not receiving). My wife knows a couple very poor people from the south there and they also didn't got any money from anyone. But of course food.

[h90]

From the nation:

Don Muang airport to be temporay government office

By Piyanart Srivalo

The Nation

The government is planning to use Don Mueang Airport as a temporary workplace because it will take several months to repair Government House after the sit-in protest by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), a source said Wednesday.

The PAD has shown no signs of leaving Government House after it invaded the property last month and camped there to rally against the government, causing damage to the building, the gardens and the grounds.

Government House officials and ministers have had to temporarily move to the Public Relations Department on Soi Aree, Ban Manangkasila, Ban Phitsunalok and the Royal Thai Army Headquarters, causing a lack of coordination.

Deputy Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, acting as caretaker prime minister, consulted with concerned parties and decided to use Don Mueang Airport as the office for the prime minister and his deputies as well as permanent officials.

The airport's reception areas will also become reception areas for the government's guests.

"We have decided to find a temporary workplace because even if the PAD calls off the protest we need several months to fix the area,'' Somchai said.

The first agency to be moved to the airport is the Secretariat of the Cabinet. The Office of the Permanent Secretary to the PM's Office, the Office of the Cabinet Secretary-General and the National Security Council will follow.

"If the PAD moves out of Government House, the government will build a car park on the area connected with Rajdamnoen Avenue as it has already allocated funds for the purpose,'' he said.

end quote

PPP BS as always: Who ever made a garden in thailand knows that it won't cost 300 Millions as told (well 30 Millions for the garden and 270 for corruption) and it does not take month to repair it, maybe a week. While someone take care of the grass the government can't work there???

The car park costs are not connected with the PAD.....

By the way I find it charming to plant rice there. Thailand as one of the biggest rice producing country. And there couldn't be any better promotion for a premier than walking in the government house, make a Wai to the rice farmer and asking if everything OK or need help? (Samak would make a perfect buffalo)

Edited September 10, 2008 by h90

[AlKing]

Samak was fast with filing treason charges but no one agreed with him. Police are not trying to arrest them because even they think it's a political, not a criminal matter, let alone treason.

Same with Thaksin. It is political, not a criminal matter.

[younghusband]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed. Best regards.....

Thanh

Beautiful and accurate statement :-) I am sitting here with another German, confirming what you said, along with an Englishman. Thank you, Thanh.

Now if we could just get the international support, like Germany had from the West, but I don't think it will come, because the West loves Thailand just the way it was up until recently (easily exploited, cheap labour, etc.)

Ah the irony of it.It's posts like these from transparently decent people that almost make me want to weep.Let's just remind ourselves of one rather crucial difference between Thailand and the GDR.The latter was a communist dictatorship where the party manipulated elections.Thailand is a developing democracy where the people actually have the right to determine their political leadership.The PAD leadership wants to stop this and is thus much closer in approach to GDR apparatchiks.

[TAWP]

The latter was a communist dictatorship where the party manipulated elections.

Here it's a populist party that is manipulating the elections...

Yes, very different.

[Los78]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed. Best regards.....

Thanh

Beautiful and accurate statement :-) I am sitting here with another German, confirming what you said, along with an Englishman. Thank you, Thanh.

Now if we could just get the international support, like Germany had from the West, but I don't think it will come, because the West loves Thailand just the way it was up until recently (easily exploited, cheap labour, etc.)

Ah the irony of it.It's posts like these from transparently decent people that almost make me want to weep.Let's just remind ourselves of one rather crucial difference between Thailand and the GDR.The latter was a communist dictatorship where the party manipulated elections.Thailand is a developing democracy where the people actually have the right to determine their political leadership.The PAD leadership wants to stop this and is thus much closer in approach to GDR apparatchiks.

Good point YH, I think these couple of Germans are very confused with the two situations. Thailand is not a Communist dictatorship since I last checked but may be in the future if PAD's new politics goes ahead. Thailand is a democracy everyone.... Not a dictatorship... I think a lot of people are`being fed a lot of lies about the situation from PAD's propaganda machine.

[Ricardo]

Ah the irony of it.It's posts like these from transparently decent people that almost make me want to weep.Let's just remind ourselves of one rather crucial difference between Thailand and the GDR.The latter was a communist dictatorship where the party manipulated elections.Thailand is a developing democracy where the people actually have the right to determine their political leadership.The PAD leadership wants to stop this and is thus much closer in approach to GDR apparatchiks.

Unless of course the people want to vote communist, when the PPP (Peoples Party ?) & Democrats still support the long-standing ban, on this particular option.

[Los78]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed. Best regards.....

Thanh

Beautiful and accurate statement :-) I am sitting here with another German, confirming what you said, along with an Englishman. Thank you, Thanh.

Now if we could just get the international support, like Germany had from the West, but I don't think it will come, because the West loves Thailand just the way it was up until recently (easily exploited, cheap labour, etc.)

I've some friends (Thais) who supporting PAD and know some (Thai's) who close to the Top Ten of PAD and also know some poor (Thais) who also supporting PAD! Not one of them ever evidently know of any payments done to get "protester" or better "supporter" to the events of the PAD.

On the other hand, those Thais I know and supporting PAD in any way, would never take anything from the PAD as kind benefit. Even the a bit better situated Thais paying for their food and didn't take the free food but leave it for the poor who can't afford to buy everything. Who of this supporters I know are able to even give something to the PAD done exactly that.

And all of that Thais are well educated humans and everything but stupid!

And did you really think that the PAD supporters didn't have the right to defend themself? Shame on you if you think like that!

I don't mean kurtgruen and Thanh by the way, I really appreciate what they wrote above.

Cheers.

Both my wife and staff are always giving money there, (not receiving). My wife knows a couple very poor people from the south there and they also didn't got any money from anyone. But of course food.

Well, I guess you are not talking to the right people. Your comrades in arms are paying its members just maybe not everyday.

[Nampeung]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

[Thai at Heart]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

I have read every word. And as a wolf in sheep's clothing, to represent 50:50 as a reasonable climbdown from 70:30 is still extremely dangerous for the democratic future of Thailand. There are 20mn farmers living on or just above the poverty line in this country and he is claiming they are the problem for the country. Stuff the less than 10mn upper and middle class who have been "taxed to the hilt". This country need someone who will take care of help the poor, not consign them to silence.

I don't like corruption, but all the parties have been involved since time immemorial. I didn't like Thaksin and his theft, and despised extra judicial killings.

I absolutely despise Sondhi and his elitist propaganda proclaiming that be reducing the value of the common man's vote will somehow set the country from moral doom. It is a lie that will turn Thailand back beyond any of our memories.

He is acting as the mouthpiece of a very select few people in the country who don't like free trade agreements, liberalisation in the banking sector, and potential privatisation of massively inefficient state enterprises. They don't want to see son's and daughters of farmers climbing out of the fields because that breaks the class rules of this country. This is a money and power show nothing more nothing less.

This is a business turf war trying to protect what they have got and prevent the real economic world coming to their doorstep.

Beyond 70:30, should the PAD succeed, I would not be even remotely surprised that we will read a few months later that just about every piece of legislation that could potentially open up Thailand to more business will be closed or strengthened.

For the misguided foreigners who support the PAD. Please don't come crying when your visa requirements are raised through roof and you need a PHD in Rocket Science to teach back street English should Sondhi get his way.

[Los78]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

I have read every word. And as a wolf in sheep's clothing, to represent 50:50 as a reasonable climbdown from 70:30 is still extremely dangerous for the democratic future of Thailand. There are 20mn farmers living on or just above the poverty line in this country and he is claiming they are the problem for the country. Stuff the less than 10mn upper and middle class who have been "taxed to the hilt". This country need someone who will take care of help the poor, not consign them to silence.

I don't like corruption, but all the parties have been involved since time immemorial. I didn't like Thaksin and his theft, and despised extra judicial killings.

I absolutely despise Sondhi and his elitist propaganda proclaiming that be reducing the value of the common man's vote will somehow set the country from moral doom. It is a lie that will turn Thailand back beyond any of our memories.

He is acting as the mouthpiece of a very select few people in the country who don't like free trade agreements, liberalisation in the banking sector, and potential privatisation of massively inefficient state enterprises. They don't want to see son's and daughters of farmers climbing out of the fields because that breaks the class rules of this country. This is a money and power show nothing more nothing less.

This is a business turf war trying to protect what they have got and prevent the real economic world coming to their doorstep.

Beyond 70:30, should the PAD succeed, I would not be even remotely surprised that we will read a few months later that just about every piece of legislation that could potentially open up Thailand to more business will be closed or strengthened.

For the misguided foreigners who support the PAD. Please don't come crying when your visa requirements are raised through roof and you need a PHD in Rocket Science to teach back street English should Sondhi get his way.

Yes. It's sad that some foreigners dont look in to the ideas that PAD are proposing for Thailand.

Sondhi and his band of criminals would make good spokesmen to North Korea's Kim Jong Ill.

[permanent_disorder]

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, ....

Thanh

Beautiful and accurate statement :-) I am sitting here with another German, confirming what you said, along with an Englishman. Thank you, Thanh.

Now if we could just get the international support, like Germany had from the West, but I don't think it will come, because the West loves Thailand just the way it was up until recently (easily exploited, cheap labour, etc.)

give me a break, thanh claim before to be a communist, but that are exactly the people who got kicked out of the government office.

and there is no way where you can compare this with east-germany. they finished a totalitarian regime, sondhi is going to start one.that centralised communist state east germany have been a failure economic and political wise. east-german state-own companies got dissolved and privatisated, because they don't have been competitive. PAD and PAD supporting unions are the opposite, they hate thaksin for market-liberalisation and privatisations. and not because it was to be done with corruption, PAD are aganst liberalisation at all.

thats why sondhi says, the academics with degrees from germany, england, france, usa have the wrong ideas (any proPADist have seen an university from the inside)?. PAD wants a uberpower central controlled state with a government you can not vote off the office. karl poppers pre-condition for a open society, a democracy - the ability to vote a bad government out of office. PAD is going to cancel that election thing, they are afraid of peoples vote.

you should read karl popper "The Open Society and its Enemies" than you will see where are the problems with platos philosopher king, centralism, marxist visions and any other visions claims to have the best, the final solution. read popper, it is fun and makes you smart.

PADs vision keeps exactly the door open for corruption and power exploits. and thaksins first steps to a market-liberalisation have been steps to limit the power of a state and a government. that is what the PAD scares of.

in no way PAD are the same like the east german dissidents or the protests (i have been there)

if you want compare the current situation, compare it to the pre-1933 democrazy in germany and adolf hitlers NSDAP and how they try to Putsch and/or claim the power on the streets.

Thanh, listen to the PAD rhetoric if you can understand thai, same BS you can here from the NPD (a socialist, antidemocratic, xenophobic and ultranationalistic party in germany)

because PAD nazis look like hippies and not like skinheads, doesn't mean they are hippies. they are nazis with the typical esoteric BS added.

PAD is not fighting for a democracy. as it said before by many other. how you can ignore this?

and of course kurt, thailand will not get support by the west. that xenophobic, nationalistic PAD bunch scares away foreign investment.

okay, as a socialist you are, you can say, same sondhi - those bloddy imperialist only exloit thailand and steal the money from the people.

but once said what are you doing after? threaten cambodia little bit with a war, ban foreign capital investments, ban people from such rights like elect, vote and vote off the government. threaten everybody who don't agree, make ASTV to the new state channel you have to watch as a must? a daily Führer ansprache, speech, a part of the education program until everybody understands who are the good people and who are the devil people?

have you ever thought one step behind "samak ouk bai"? another point you don't get. be critical and sceptical with PAD doesn't mean that you are pro or get paid by thaksin. thats your narrow minded back and white view.

time for an academic voice to get a direction:

"Most dangerously, the PAD's new turn has the potential to lend a significant social base to a conservative and reactionary form of corporatism.

In the 1980s, the semi-fascist corporatist politics of the Revolutionary Council were marginalised as Thai politics democratised. The council became a laughing stock and the organisation was dubbed the "Joke Council". Somehow, the PAD seems to have reversed Marx's dictum that history repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as farce.

How far the PAD has travelled is perhaps illustrated by reference to a rally I observed in the middle of last week. A well-known rock star called on the spirit of the 1950s dictator Sarit Thanarat to deal decisively with corruption. The best that can be said of that episode is that people were applauding on cue"

Michael Connors, teacher of politics at La Trobe University. author of "Democracy and National Identity in Thailand" (2007).

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=128765

[Meerkat]

Good post Thai at Heart.

OMR, there was some posting on this thread about the article a couple of nights ago IIRC (the article was published online on the 8th, not the 9th as indicated) but the subject quickly moved over to the PAD's manifesto which was posted here very soon afterwards (I think the article was timed to coincide with the manifesto release.) Note the difference between the watered down version of PAD's policies going forward in Crispin's interview for western consumption, against the much starker - and very much scarier - manifesto itself.

[Thai at Heart]

Good post Thai at Heart.

OMR, there was some posting on this thread about the article a couple of nights ago IIRC (the article was published online on the 8th, not the 9th as indicated) but the subject quickly moved over to the PAD's manifesto which was posted here very soon afterwards (I think the article was timed to coincide with the manifesto release.) Note the difference between the watered down version of PAD's policies going forward in Crispin's interview for western consumption, against the much starker - and very much scarier - manifesto itself.

Would you like a splash of water with you cyanide sir?

[blaze]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

If you had read Sondhi's previous interviews- you would know that this is nothing more than Sondhi's attempt to sugar coat what remains a very bitter pill. As he cautions- don't believe everything you hear the PAD say on stage- and the press is a pretty big stage.

[Plus]

In today's Nation there's another Prawit's piece, this time about how the poor majority opinions get ignored by the media while middle class and academics dominate it. That's the gist, but Prawit is again got carried away by his leftism.

Actually, media doesn't publish opinions of middle class citizens, it gives space to its representatives, usually from some kind of "association" or "network", and it should be no different with the poor - someone has to represent them for the media. And it's not like they are lacking in representation - don't they have majority of MPs speaking for them?

Obviously, no one in his right mind would take the MPs as people's representatives, it's a paper duty only. Prawit hasn't thought of them at all.

>>>>

How's that going to change? Will the poor get more politically active? Will they form assossiations, networks or rubber farmers or something?

Under "new politics" they'd have to - they'd be given a quota of MPs to fill. Under current system - no chance, no political activism outside main party is allowed.

So, people like Prawit keep on ramming their heads against the wall, stubbornly refusing to aknowledge that their favourite "democracy" has miserably failed and needs a complete overhaul. Anything but an open door - real revolutionaries don't use doors.

So, it's all media/elites/middle classes/military/royalist/feudals fault instead. Anyone but the MPs representing the poor, in full compliance with leftist vision of democracy.

Unfortunately I can't find a link to the online artice. It seems not everything gets posted on Nation's website - last Sunday there was an interview with one of the detained PAD guards who stormed NBT. Not online.

[Thai at Heart]

OMR (post2427) I too posted that interview and no one on the forum responded to it Seems most posters here are too caught up in their own bickering...

If you had read Sondhi's previous interviews- you would know that this is nothing more than Sondhi's attempt to sugar coat what remains a very bitter pill. As he cautions- don't believe everything you hear the PAD say on stage- and the press is a pretty big stage.

Oh well that's alright then

Is the bit about them wanting PPP out open to interpretation then? Obviously they were only half serious when they stormed govt house.

The statements are out there, what is the meaning in debating whether they are meaningful or not. If they aren't meaningful, why make them?