State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[Los78]

Not to exclude the Brits from showing up with the Americans above...

A group of expatriates from Florida working in Thailand

Ohhh isnt that cute... Some brainless Americans join the sheep. If only they understood the situation. A PAD kodak momement.

An Equal Opportunity bashing presentation

Why post these photos under this topic???? Not related.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

2,500+ posts on this thread discussing every conceivable aspect (and numerous inconceivable) on the PAD and the government... but photos of foreign nationals at the PAD rally site are off-topic?

Good one.

But come on.... where's the bash at the Brits to equal your American post earlier??

Can someone tell me what happened to the photos of the PAD leader on stage that where on here last night????? Strange how it mysteriously disappered but unrelated photos of farangs stay on... Hmmmm makes me wonder.

[hammered]

Why does the government seem to want to keep the SoE when just about everybody including the army commander has wanted it revoked for days?

[geriatrickid]

The comparing of Thai politicians on either side of this crisis to Nazis is way over the top. Whether you like them or not, they are not.

[animatic]

All of Samaks and PPP's scary talk about how bad PAD is;

it's purported violent acts and horrors and alledged dispicable conduct,

seems to NOT be translating to the outside world as planned.

Seems they are perceived as a new tourist attraction now!

Showing Samak's 'State of Emergency' for the house of cards it was from day one.

I like those friendly peaceful pictures:

Protestors gather in Chiang Mai and Lampang

-Chiang Mai Mail

LaoPo

Yes a nice peaceful red gathering too. GOOD, they have the right.

But I remember when PAD went to hold a rally in Chaing mai.

Thaksin's thugs came and beat them till the ran from the site,

just for the TIMERITY of trying to talk with people.

Oh and I love Chaingmai, my first extended time in LOS was up there.

It's not the town it's SOME elements there that is the issue.

If Sondhi went to talk to this group above, would he be heard?

If one of Thaksin's people went to just talk to PAD face to face, would he be heard?

The history of both groups do not paint the same picture of open minded discussion.

[animatic]

Moderators,

why did I get a warning for using some French in friendly aside joke,

not rude or cruel, not insulting in any way,

but this insulting use of German gets a pass?

[animatic]

Why does the government seem to want to keep the SoE when just about everybody including the army commander has wanted it revoked for days?

A good question.

Maybe the upcoming implelentation of the Military Reshuffle has a bearing on this.

Is Dr. T. hoping that he has moved enough pawns forward to make a difference?

[paulfromphuket]

Not to exclude the Brits from showing up with the Americans above...

A group of expatriates from Florida working in Thailand

Ohhh isnt that cute... Some brainless Americans join the sheep. If only they understood the situation. A PAD kodak momement.

An Equal Opportunity bashing presentation

Why post these photos under this topic???? Not related.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

2,500+ posts on this thread discussing every conceivable aspect (and numerous inconceivable) on the PAD and the government... but photos of foreign nationals at the PAD rally site are off-topic?

Good one.

But come on.... where's the bash at the Brits to equal your American post earlier??

Can someone tell me what happened to the photos of the PAD leader on stage that where on here last night????? Strange how it mysteriously disappered but unrelated photos of farangs stay on... Hmmmm makes me wonder.

strange indeed,i would post it again but as you know thats against the forum rule.

however heres the link/sourse.

http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=575

[Samuian]

Moderators,

why did I get a warning for using some French in friendly aside joke,

not rude or cruel, not insulting in any way,

but this insulting use of German gets a pass?

Aversion of french a certain potluck of german maybe... place your jokes in german next!

Wonder who is nominated next will it be a he, a she may be.... starting with Y... ?

[cmsally]

All of Samaks and PPP's scary talk about how bad PAD is;

it's purported violent acts and horrors and alledged dispicable conduct,

seems to NOT be translating to the outside world as planned.

Seems they are perceived as a new tourist attraction now!

Showing Samak's 'State of Emergency' for the house of cards it was from day one.

I like those friendly peaceful pictures:

Protestors gather in Chiang Mai and Lampang

-Chiang Mai Mail

LaoPo

Yes a nice peaceful red gathering too. GOOD, they have the right.

But I remember when PAD went to hold a rally in Chaing mai.

Thaksin's thugs came and beat them till the ran from the site,

just for the TIMERITY of trying to talk with people.

Oh and I love Chaingmai, my first extended time in LOS was up there.

It's not the town it's SOME elements there that is the issue.

If Sondhi went to talk to this group above, would he be heard?

If one of Thaksin's people went to just talk to PAD face to face, would he be heard?

The history of both groups do not paint the same picture of open minded discussion.

I think your assumption of hired thugs is wrong. Many people in Chiang Mai genuinely do not like the PAD.

Those feelings run quite strongly. There would be plenty who would beat up the PAD without being paid and on their own initiative.

[paulfromphuket]

Hello

Just to clear that - the report that was on channel 9 (not NBT or ASTV!) last night was about "how ordinary people's lives have been affected by the presence of the PAD mob at that place". It was not a report about "toilet bus drivers" or "prostitutes" or even "PAD" or "DAAD". Just that the people interviewed were people doing "business" one way or another in that area or "live" there (in case of the homeless).

And part of that report was the fight between PAD and DAAD that night, the video being clearly unbiased, showing BOTH sides going at their dirty business of beating up others, but you could really clearly see the general direction of the aggression (red -> yellow) and who had advanced weaponry (red).

I personally am against aggression, i do however believe that protesting (even if it includes temporarily seizing public buildings or land) is a powerful way of getting the message across.

Maybe that is because i experienced the "peaceful revolution" in the German Democratic (not!) Republic which led to the re-unification of Germany, the collapse of the Sovjet Union and ultimately the end of the cold war. And the people who started THAT were also "just a few that were unhappy with their government" and they managed to get the attention of the world with their previously-unheard-of protests in the streets of Leipzig and later other cities, so much attention in fact that the army decided NOT to crush them with tanks and the police decided NOT to shoot them all, as such orders were given but disobeyed. Best regards.....

Thanh

Beautiful and accurate statement :-) I am sitting here with another German, confirming what you said, along with an Englishman. Thank you, Thanh.

Now if we could just get the international support, like Germany had from the West, but I don't think it will come, because the West loves Thailand just the way it was up until recently (easily exploited, cheap labour, etc.)

I've some friends (Thais) who supporting PAD and know some (Thai's) who close to the Top Ten of PAD and also know some poor (Thais) who also supporting PAD! Not one of them ever evidently know of any payments done to get "protester" or better "supporter" to the events of the PAD.

On the other hand, those Thais I know and supporting PAD in any way, would never take anything from the PAD as kind benefit. Even the a bit better situated Thais paying for their food and didn't take the free food but leave it for the poor who can't afford to buy everything. Who of this supporters I know are able to even give something to the PAD done exactly that.

And all of that Thais are well educated humans and everything but stupid!

And did you really think that the PAD supporters didn't have the right to defend themself? Shame on you if you think like that!

I don't mean kurtgruen and Thanh by the way, I really appreciate what they wrote above.

Cheers.

is there a little bias here

[animatic]

Moderators,

why did I get a warning for using some French in friendly aside joke,

not rude or cruel, not insulting in any way,

but this insulting use of German gets a pass?

Aversion of french a certain potluck of german maybe... place your jokes in german next!

Wonder who is nominated next will it be a he, a she may be.... starting with Y... ?

No can do, most of my german can from Hogan's Heros reruns.

Rousgang mein herr Dr.... nah don't work.

Edited September 13, 2008 by animatic

[Los78]

Can someone tell me what happened to the photos of the PAD leader on stage that where on here last night????? Strange how it mysteriously disappered but unrelated photos of farangs stay on... Hmmmm makes me wonder.

strange indeed,i would post it again but as you know thats against the forum rule.

however heres the link/sourse.

http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=575

Here it is again. PAD kodak moment.... Seig Heil.

[paulfromphuket]

well done los78

[sriracha john]

Wonder who is nominated next will it be a he, a she may be.... starting with Y... ?

I didn't know Thai super-model Yosawadee was being considered...

[animatic]

All of Samaks and PPP's scary talk about how bad PAD is;

it's purported violent acts and horrors and alledged dispicable conduct,

seems to NOT be translating to the outside world as planned.

Seems they are perceived as a new tourist attraction now!

Showing Samak's 'State of Emergency' for the house of cards it was from day one.

I like those friendly peaceful pictures:

Protestors gather in Chiang Mai and Lampang

-Chiang Mai Mail

LaoPo

Yes a nice peaceful red gathering too. GOOD, they have the right.

But I remember when PAD went to hold a rally in Chaing mai.

Thaksin's thugs came and beat them till the ran from the site,

just for the TIMERITY of trying to talk with people.

Oh and I love Chaingmai, my first extended time in LOS was up there.

It's not the town it's SOME elements there that is the issue.

If Sondhi went to talk to this group above, would he be heard?

If one of Thaksin's people went to just talk to PAD face to face, would he be heard?

The history of both groups do not paint the same picture of open minded discussion.

I think your assumption of hired thugs is wrong. Many people in Chiang Mai genuinely do not like the PAD.

Those feelings run quite strongly. There would be plenty who would beat up the PAD without being paid and on their own initiative.

Never used the word 'hired'. You did.

I assume there many defenders of him there he is a hometown boy

and brought much patronage to home base.

Regardless of the wording what are they scared of hearing?

That their patron is not as good as they imagine?

In a proper democracy opposing viewpoints get a respectful forum.

Not a beating from feudal serfs hoping the gravy train doesn't dry up.

I also note that Laopo edited my text to fit his needs.

just as part of the edited out text predicted.

Edited September 13, 2008 by animatic

[paulfromphuket]

Friday, September 12, 2008

‘State of Emergency’ order must go: Weerasak

PHUKET: Tourism and Sports Minister Weerasak Kowsurat arrived in Phuket on Wednesday with New Zealand Ambassador to Thailand Brook Barrington and an entourage of foreign media in a bid to restore tourist confidence in Phuket after a People’s Alliance for Demorcacy (PAD) protest forced the closure of Phuket International Airport (PIA).

Mr Weerasak’s visit followed his call on Tuesday for Samak Sundaravej to rescind the state of emergency declared in Bangkok.

“I have set up many teams of Tourism Authority of Thailand [TAT] officers to help support TAT offices abroad, where we need to make it clear what the current situation in Thailand really is. We need to boost tourist confidence so they will return. This is especially true for Phuket,” Mr Weerasak said.

“I don’t want to have to explain to those countries why we still have a state of emergency declared,” he added.

Mr Weerasak advised senior government officers, including Governor Niran Kalayanamit and PIA Director Wicha Nernlop, to put recent events behind them and to focus on the future.

“I don’t want everyone to keep worrying about this. I need you to cheer up quickly and learn from this experience so you will be better prepared in the future,” he said.

“Here in Thailand we know that the state of emergency applies only to Bangkok, but other countries don’t know that. They think it applies throughout the country and they don’t know that Phuket is a long way from Bangkok.”

“In reality, Thai people have not been affected by the state of emergency and even people in Bangkok aren’t worried about it. However, it has directly affected confidence of investors and tourists. That is the problem now,” he explained.

“We need to remove the state of emergency as soon as possible and let foreign media come and report first-hand the real situation in Thailand, especially Phuket and Krabi, that we are back to normal already,” Mr Weerasak added.

I picked a good week to launch a new business i guess.

[animatic]

doubled post, glitch

Edited September 13, 2008 by animatic

[sriracha john]

Well, it shouldn't be long now... We've been assured the State of Emergency would end in "a few days"... 11 days ago.

[hammered]

Declaring the state of emergency was a bad move in terms of tourism adn investment. Governments have to issue travel advice and warnings if an SoE is declared and investment advice also becomes nagetive. It should have been removed days ago. Street demos and even riots and the odd shooting dont create anywhere near as much difficulty for investment and tourism circles as an SoE does, and in Thailand the potential for violence is quite low unless the government mobilises its red guards.

[Samuian]

[quote name='Los78' date='2008-09-13 14:05:48' post='2212084'

Here it is again. PAD kodak moment.... Seig Heil.

...well then early Romans or the Red Indians who used a similar gesture to great each other, are some very early fascists, is it that what do you wish to tell the audience through the veil of deception, ... is it?

...besides your german is awful..!

Edited September 13, 2008 by Samuian

[animatic]

Not to mention that

the thumb is closed to the hand in that particular odious salute.

Sondhi is open hand and it could as easily be a stop flash of

a wave across many people in a crowd.

This is picture labeling propaganda nothing more.

Edited September 13, 2008 by animatic

[doctormann]

Wonder who is nominated next will it be a he, a she may be.... starting with Y... ?

I didn't know Thai super-model Yosawadee was being considered...

She'd certainly get my nomination - so much better looking than a certain TV chef!

[cmsally]

Using the possessive form , is equal to saying the thugs belong to Thaksin. Normally if someone belongs to someone they are paid, that is a fairly standard assumption. If you mean thugs in the general sense then better to use it in the general sense with no possessive noun.

I am sure that many people in Chiang Mai are open to democratic discussion, however as you can see from the PAD meetings in Bangkok, that's hardly what they are. You basically have a group of people that are preaching hatred and the cult of opposition without reason. In this case it is against a government which many of the people up here and in the NE voted in.

For a lot of people they see it as demand for totalitarian rule from Bangkok.

[kurtgruen]

Declaring the state of emergency was a bad move in terms of tourism adn investment. Governments have to issue travel advice and warnings if an SoE is declared and investment advice also becomes nagetive. It should have been removed days ago. Street demos and even riots and the odd shooting dont create anywhere near as much difficulty for investment and tourism circles as an SoE does, and in Thailand the potential for violence is quite low unless the government mobilises its red guards.

Good Afternoon everyone,

My thoughts exactly, Thank you, Hammered.

Again, this shows how incompetent the leadership of the current government really is.

[animatic]

Using the possessive form , is equal to saying the thugs belong to Thaksin. Normally if someone belongs to someone they are paid, that is a fairly standard assumption. If you mean thugs in the general sense then better to use it in the general sense with no possessive noun.

I am sure that many people in Chiang Mai are open to democratic discussion, however as you can see from the PAD meetings in Bangkok, that's hardly what they are. You basically have a group of people that are preaching hatred and the cult of opposition without reason. In this case it is against a government which many of the people up here and in the NE voted in.

For a lot of people they see it as demand for totalitarian rule from Bangkok.

Semantically you can parse all you like.

Paid with money, paid with lao kao, paid with local patronage ; same same.

No matter how or why they feel this is good to do, and why they feel they benefit from it,

they are on HIS SIDE of the argument and make it violent for his benefit,

and probably theirs too they feel. Makes no difference the quid pro quo if it.

Makes no difference if they get cash per scalp taken, or just meeting disrupted,

it is an undemocratic process in his benefit. Thus Thaksin's thugs.

[cmsally]

Using the possessive form , is equal to saying the thugs belong to Thaksin. Normally if someone belongs to someone they are paid, that is a fairly standard assumption. If you mean thugs in the general sense then better to use it in the general sense with no possessive noun.

I am sure that many people in Chiang Mai are open to democratic discussion, however as you can see from the PAD meetings in Bangkok, that's hardly what they are. You basically have a group of people that are preaching hatred and the cult of opposition without reason. In this case it is against a government which many of the people up here and in the NE voted in.

For a lot of people they see it as demand for totalitarian rule from Bangkok.

Semantically you can parse all you like.

Paid with money, paid with lao kao, paid with local patronage ; same same.

No matter how or why they feel this is good to do, and why they feel they benefit from it,

they are on HIS SIDE of the argument and make it violent for his benefit,

and probably theirs too they feel. Makes no difference the quid pro quo if it.

Makes no difference if they get cash per scalp taken, or just meeting disrupted,

it is an undemocratic process in his benefit. Thus Thaksin's thugs.

I would disagree with you. A while back the issue would have been more pro or anti Thaksin. But right now people are seeing the PAD hold the country to ransom, and the issue would be more pro or anti PAD. A lot of people are anti PAD per se; and those same people are fairly balanced on the view towards this govt and the previous Thaksin government. They see the government's faults but do not like what the PAD are doing to the country.

Be careful not to fall into the trap of a two sided argument. What you are saying is precisely what is causing a lot of the problems. You have to be for or against the PAD. You have to be for or against the TRT/PPP. You are trying to make the two mutually exclusive. There is a position where you can be critical of both sides but it requires leaving emotion outside of the equation. Just looking on this forum, this seems to be something most people are not capable of.

It's nice to swept up in the "cause" , "the feel good" factor, "the make fun of" factor, "that justifies my assumptions" factor, but none of these help solve the problems.

What I am saying is that there is a distinctly anti PAD sentiment in Chiang Mai, although generally you don't get any violence.

That sentiment is not always indicative of an extreme pro govt stance. Historically you have an area that hasn't been been part of Thailand for really that long and they generally feel pretty short changed by the capital. What they see is a group of middle class Bangkok people holding the country to ransom, occupying the seat of government and generally messing up the economy. In parallel to this you have rising inflation and a drop in tourism, and it becomes pretty obvious where they are going to put the blame.

[animatic]

Using the possessive form , is equal to saying the thugs belong to Thaksin. Normally if someone belongs to someone they are paid, that is a fairly standard assumption. If you mean thugs in the general sense then better to use it in the general sense with no possessive noun.

I am sure that many people in Chiang Mai are open to democratic discussion, however as you can see from the PAD meetings in Bangkok, that's hardly what they are. You basically have a group of people that are preaching hatred and the cult of opposition without reason. In this case it is against a government which many of the people up here and in the NE voted in.

For a lot of people they see it as demand for totalitarian rule from Bangkok.

Semantically you can parse all you like.

Paid with money, paid with lao kao, paid with local patronage ; same same.

No matter how or why they feel this is good to do, and why they feel they benefit from it,

they are on HIS SIDE of the argument and make it violent for his benefit,

and probably theirs too they feel. Makes no difference the quid pro quo if it.

Makes no difference if they get cash per scalp taken, or just meeting disrupted,

it is an undemocratic process in his benefit. Thus Thaksin's thugs.

I would disagree with you. A while back the issue would have been more pro or anti Thaksin. But right now people are seeing the PAD hold the country to ransom, and the issue would be more pro or anti PAD. A lot of people are anti PAD per se; and those same people are fairly balanced on the view towards this govt and the previous Thaksin government. They see the government's faults but do not like what the PAD are doing to the country.

Be careful not to fall into the trap of a two sided argument. What you are saying is precisely what is causing a lot of the problems. You have to be for or against the PAD. You have to be for or against the TRT/PPP. You are trying to make the two mutually exclusive. There is a position where you can be critical of both sides but it requires leaving emotion outside of the equation. Just looking on this forum, this seems to be something most people are not capable of.

It's nice to swept up in the "cause" , "the feel good" factor, "the make fun of" factor, "that justifies my assumptions" factor, but none of these help solve the problems.

What I am saying is that there is a distinctly anti PAD sentiment in Chiang Mai, although generally you don't get any violence.

That sentiment is not always indicative of an extreme pro govt stance. Historically you have an area that hasn't been been part of Thailand for really that long and they generally feel pretty short changed by the capital. What they see is a group of middle class Bangkok people holding the country to ransom, occupying the seat of government and generally messing up the economy. In parallel to this you have rising inflation and a drop in tourism, and it becomes pretty obvious where they are going to put the blame.

Right it's the classic shoot the messenger when you dislike the message.

Sally, I give you credit for being in the more lucid 1% of posters here.

I was once a fan of TRT even while observing the voting buying in Chaingmai first hand.

But over time I came to find them a greater part of the problem.

Looking at PAD objectively their leadership is not a bunch of angels,

but the rank and file don't come across the same way.

If you must be a rough character to be able to hold the mirror up enough

and show the emperor's new clothes are a facade, then so be it.

If the people up north don't understand they are/were being ripped off same

as those down south I can only blame information control, and that is done

by silencing opposing speech.

I felt this way BEFORE PAD went more mobile to govt. house.

Before Gvt. house PAD was being prevented from talking up north,

violence was used regularly. They had to get tougher,

yet stayed relatively restrained too.

The level of theft clearly went up under Thaksin and those birds are

coming home to roost for him. He treated his home base very well

they are right to like him, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be doing better too.

Others got blatantly screwed by him too. He was supposed to lead for ALL Thais,

not just his friends.

Edited September 13, 2008 by animatic

[kurtgruen]

My suggestions for a new Thai political system….

1. Continue to have Parliament elected by the people, in open, transparent, fair elections.

This could be accomplished by allowing scrutineers from every party at all polling stations, watching for voting irregularities and possibly bringing in outside observers, until the system runs smooth.

There must also be a safe way for citizens to launch complaints against voting irregularities, without them or their families becoming the subjects of threats, violence and/or economic isolation.

2. Have an appointed Senate, but unlike Countries like, for example Canada, don’t let politicians appoint the senate.

The senate could be appointed by a combination of business, union, social justice, environmental leaders and such. Just for an example, the senate makeup could look like the following (this is only an example so don’t start picking at the percentages, look at the overall model)…

10% appointed from business bodies, such as the Chamber of Commerce, Rotary Club, etc.

10% appointed by a panel of social justice leaders

10% by the Unions

10% by the military

10% by the Monarchy

10% by the medical profession

10% Senior Citizens

10% Students

10% Farmers and Agricultural Interests

10% Tourism Interests

That way, you could always have a well balanced Senate, which could stop “bad” Legislations from coming into effect.

Let’s go back to Parliament for a moment. In order to ensure fair elections, there has to be fairly equal access to all sides of information. The government needs to loosen its grip on the media.

In schools, all the different forms of government around the world need to be discussed in detail, with students being encouraged to come up with new models as well. Students need to be taught to identify their own values, not just blindly follow indoctrination.

Students need to be encouraged to learn, how other countries view the role of women in society, child labor, the role of foreigners, etc. and how other countries deal with issues such as poverty, universal healthcare, pension systems, national security, etc.

I could go on an on. All I am saying is, that the current system is not working for the majority (poor) of people in this country and needs to be changed.

Throwing a few crumbs to the poor, while lining ones own pockets (Thaksin), is not the answer.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results!

Kurt Gruen

[animatic]

Kurt I can hear some of the howls from certain quarters already,

but a very interesting starting point for discussions.

France always touts that they are trying a 3rd way from

American capitalism vs pure socialism.

Why not Thai's find still a FOURTH way to go?

Certainly Thais do not think like french or yanks.

Edited September 13, 2008 by animatic

[kurtgruen]

Kurt I can hear some of the howls from certain quarters already,

but a very interesting starting point for discussions.

France always touts that they are trying a 3rd way from

American capitalism vs pure socialism.

Why not Thai's find still a FOURTH way to go?

Certainly Thais do not think like french or yanks.

To be honest, I am not familiar with the French system, but you sparked my interest and I will certainly check it out. Thanks.

The part about Thai People not thinking like French and Yanks might be a good thing