Any Uk Financial Advisers In Our Midst ?

[ice1318]

Hi , I am looking to make some investments in order to secure my financial future. Specifically, I want to ring fence my capital so as to make sure I don't run out of money over here (or where ever else I end up in South East Asia).

I'm a UK citizen and am intending dealing with this through UK products bought on the UK market. My question is do I need to traipse back to the UK or is there someone here I can deal with face to face, explain myself fully ,and have the paperwork fed back to the UK. Presumably others have trodden this path before ?

[BIGTOE3]

Hi , I am looking to make some investments in order to secure my financial future. Specifically, I want to ring fence my capital so as to make sure I don't run out of money over here (or where ever else I end up in South East Asia).

I'm a UK citizen and am intending dealing with this through UK products bought on the UK market. My question is do I need to traipse back to the UK or is there someone here I can deal with face to face, explain myself fully ,and have the paperwork fed back to the UK. Presumably others have trodden this path before ?

Hi Ice, I would recommend you PM Mouserless as he is exactly what you are looking for.

He is Authorised to do FSA business and travels regularly to Thailand.

He is also my Financial adviser and I always think personal recommendations are the best.

BT

[JSixpack]

The venerable Dog's <deleted>, Soi Yamato, proudly serving as the informal Pattaya British Council, has any number of advisors who can point you in the right direction.

[PattayaParent]

MBMG International have an office in Pattaya and Barclay Spencer have an office in Bangkok.

[ice1318]

Hi BigToe3

Could you PM me with your FA's email details. Thanks.

[chiang mai]

Unless you want to become cannon fodder for the near hoards of UK IFA's (or would be IFA's) who tour SE Asia looking for trusting souls, be very very careful. Just because an someone is an IFA in the UK doesn't mean that they have the same level of obligations to a client when they work outside the UK. I note that you said you want to deal only in UK based products and using a UK IFA for this purpose is very sensible, nevertheless, be very wary of the come on lines you will almost certainly receive locally, it's a very dodgy business in this country.

[Tammi]

My advice is that you should stay well clear of all so called financial advisors. Last one I had lost over 50,000 pounds for me. Learn to look after your own money, that's what I did and haven't lost a penny since. But if you do go with a financial advisor do notgive him discretionary powers - you look at his suggestions every which way before giving the go ahead.

A little while ago I was in contact with someone I had met as a young lad many years ago. Due to various circumstances he had not been able to finish his education so - you've guessed it - he became a financial advisor!

[bulshy]

Hi,

I would recommend you contact Xxxx Xxxx , he has all the UK qualifications and lives permanently in Thailand. He is based in Chiang Mai and is president of the expats club there, however he does travel all over Thailand in order to meet clients.

Regards.

[skiman1]

Yea I agree have used Xxxx and get an excellent Professional service would thoroughly recommend him also

regs

[chiang mai]

Sorry to belabor the point but:

It doesn't really matter that a person has UK qualifications and accreditation, if they practice in Thailand they have no duty of care and no responsibility or obligation, other than there own personal standards and morals. I've met one British IFA here who is fully qualified and who does in fact practice in the UK. His work for expats in Thailand however entails some activities that would see him jailed if he were to do the same back home.

[skiman1]

Sorry to belabor the point but:

It doesn't really matter that a person has UK qualifications and accreditation, if they practice in Thailand they have no duty of care and no responsibility or obligation, other than there own personal standards and morals. I've met one British IFA here who is fully qualified and who does in fact practice in the UK. His work for expats in Thailand however entails some activities that would see him jailed if he were to do the same back home.

I read your post with interest and whilst I agree that the UK standards may not apply in Law (they are probably the best in the world) in Thailand, surely you must agree the fact that most Professional people who attain these Industry Standards will strive to maintain them - as regards the Financial Advisor who I mentioned in the earlier post - I have dealt with him for years personally with hundreds of thousands of pounds (whilst abroad) and his morals are beyond question - He is one of the most Professional people I have dealt with, so much so that I recommended him to manage my Parents funds for them (which he now does) - I can see that you have had dealings with a dodgy character, but please don't tar every qualified and certified person with the same brush! If we applied this one bad apple standard everywhere who would we employ to manage our affairs and do our simple repair work around our homes?

I cannot trust him - I once knew someone who did ?????

ok - rant over

[chiang mai]

Sorry to belabor the point but:

It doesn't really matter that a person has UK qualifications and accreditation, if they practice in Thailand they have no duty of care and no responsibility or obligation, other than there own personal standards and morals. I've met one British IFA here who is fully qualified and who does in fact practice in the UK. His work for expats in Thailand however entails some activities that would see him jailed if he were to do the same back home.

I read your post with interest and whilst I agree that the UK standards may not apply in Law (they are probably the best in the world) in Thailand, surely you must agree the fact that most Professional people who attain these Industry Standards will strive to maintain them - as regards the Financial Advisor who I mentioned in the earlier post - I have dealt with him for years personally with hundreds of thousands of pounds (whilst abroad) and his morals are beyond question - He is one of the most Professional people I have dealt with, so much so that I recommended him to manage my Parents funds for them (which he now does) - I can see that you have had dealings with a dodgy character, but please don't tar every qualified and certified person with the same brush! If we applied this one bad apple standard everywhere who would we employ to manage our affairs and do our simple repair work around our homes?

I cannot trust him - I once knew someone who did ?????

ok - rant over

I agree it is different where the individual is a known and proven entity - I do not intend to smear all Thai based UK IFA's with the same brush because as you point out that would be illogical. Instead I hope I have flagged the need for Brits to be aware that being a UK IFA in Thailand doesn't provide the same assurances here that it does in the UK.

[leicester]

Interesting reading.... The reputation of financial advisors in the offshore world is clearly smeared and of course, you need to do your due diligence before doing any investment as any like-minded person should.

UK compliance ensures that the client knows exactly what the AIMS, COMMITMENTS, RISKS, TAX LIABILITIES, CHARGES and WHAT HAPPENS IN THE EVENT OF THEIR DEATH before signing and incepting any policy.

Recommendations are given based on needs highlighted from a 'FACT FIND' which should be completed and signed every time a new client is seen. The above should be strictly adhered to!

Qualifications stand for nothing as there is no compliance for financial services in Thailand, however, this adds credibility to the advice given. You can search for the name of the advisor you meet at www.findanadvisor.org to verify that the consultant is a) qualified and regsitered with the Chartered Institute of Insurance (which they should be if they wish to improve their knowledge and taking new exams as rules and regulations change over time)...

A UK advisor whom trips into Thailand and advises on investments in the UK does not necessarily understand the offshore market. I appreciate your trust in UK investments but do you really want to pay tax on the growth of your funds? This will equate to 20% of the interest accrued being taken at source.

As you are now non-resident of the UK and therefore outside your domestic tax system, returns on your investments are paid gross rolled up. No liability to savings (income) tax or capital gains tax.

The advisor is only an intermediary and will recommend what investment and whom with. The best institutions which offer these investment vehicles are Friends Provident, Royal Skandia, Generali, Scottish Provident and Scottish Life.

With the markets so volatile and turbulent at present, now is a time for protection.

Any feedback from yourself or others on the forum would be most appreciated.

[AyG]

I'm a UK citizen and am intending dealing with this through UK products bought on the UK market.

You would be well advised to rethink this approach. UK Fixed income products deduct 20% tax which you then have to reclaim each year from the tax man. (And you don't get interest on the sum deducted.) Offshore products will pay the income gross.

You also need to consider your inheritance tax position. UK products will inevitably attract inheritance tax (if above the GBP 300,000 threshold). Offshore products might not (depending upon your domicile).

Anyway, a good financial advisor should be able to advise you on both these points.

[chiang mai]

I'm a UK citizen and am intending dealing with this through UK products bought on the UK market.

You would be well advised to rethink this approach. UK Fixed income products deduct 20% tax which you then have to reclaim each year from the tax man. (And you don't get interest on the sum deducted.) Offshore products will pay the income gross.

You also need to consider your inheritance tax position. UK products will inevitably attract inheritance tax (if above the GBP 300,000 threshold). Offshore products might not (depending upon your domicile).

Anyway, a good financial advisor should be able to advise you on both these points.

I can't agree there is a need to rethink, given your stated arguments. Yes there may be a tax deduction at source but as you point out this can be reclaimed - the trade off here is loss of interest on tax paid versus certainty that the investment advice received in the first place allows peace of mind and lets you sleep at night!

As far as IHT is concerned: there are a number of ways to mitigate IHT including the use of Trusts. The issue of domicile in offshore investments is a bit of a red herring - unless you take all the onerous steps change your domicile, and this is not very easy, HM Treasury will look at your worldwide assets for IHT purposes, not just those that originate in the UK.

Finally, the previous poster who stated that onshore IFA's may not be aware of the full range of offshore products is a I think stretching his case a little far. Financial products these days tend to be global in nature and the core providers of these are known I would imagine, to all IFA's. Sorry guys, I'm hard pressed to see a compelling case that supports the use of offshore financial advisers over onshore IFA's.

[leicester]

You would be surprised Chiang_Mai...

You are unable to reclaim growth on investments held in the UK... only bank accounts, and what rate of interest do they pay?? If you decide you want to keep your money in a bank in the UK!?!? and reclaim this lost interest through savings tax, you need to complete an R85 form (and send directly to your bank), which can be found on the Inland Revenue web-site.

In the offshore market, there are currently 1 year term deposit accounts available which pay 9.5% gross for GBP currency protected, you can take an income monthly, quarterly or not at all. As interest rates are high and the markets are extremely volatile, this is a great option.

FYI... Inheritance tax rates for this year are 312,000GBP and 600k for a married couple under new legislation.

If you meet with an advisor, please avoid QUROPS like the plague, there are alternatives which still allow the tax efficient advantages for pension provisions to an expat and retain UK regulation.

[chiang mai]

You would be surprised Chiang_Mai...

You are unable to reclaim growth on investments held in the UK... only bank accounts, and what rate of interest do they pay?? If you decide you want to keep your money in a bank in the UK!?!? and reclaim this lost interest through savings tax, you need to complete an R85 form (and send directly to your bank), which can be found on the Inland Revenue web-site.

In the offshore market, there are currently 1 year term deposit accounts available which pay 9.5% gross for GBP currency protected, you can take an income monthly, quarterly or not at all. As interest rates are high and the markets are extremely volatile, this is a great option.

FYI... Inheritance tax rates for this year are 312,000GBP and 600k for a married couple under new legislation.

If you meet with an advisor, please avoid QUROPS like the plague, there are alternatives which still allow the tax efficient advantages for pension provisions to an expat and retain UK regulation.

I challenge you to point to any offshore bank that can pay anything over 7.5% per year, unless you are referring to very high risk foreign currency deposits with extremely dodgy banks. Also, it is known as QROPS, Qualifying Retirement Overseas Pension Schemes and wonder what QUROPS is?

[Misty]

You can search for the name of the advisor you meet at www.findanadvisor.org to verify that the consultant is a) qualified and regsitered with the Chartered Institute of Insurance (which they should be if they wish to improve their knowledge and taking new exams as rules and regulations change over time)...

Why should an advisor be registered with an Institute of Insurance, unless they're actually a broker selling insurance products?

The advisor is only an intermediary and will recommend what investment and whom with. The best institutions which offer these investment vehicles are Friends Provident, Royal Skandia, Generali, Scottish Provident and Scottish Life.

Ok, now I think I understand your above statement regarding the Institute of Insurance. The companies you list are all insurance providers that also sell repackaged mutual funds as "savings schemes", with added layers fees and a mandatory lock-in period of paying premiums (5-30 years).

While I can understand buying an insurance product (like term life, income replacement, or health insurance) from an insurance company, I'm curious, if I want to invest, why should I buy a repackaged, high fee, "savings scheme" or product from an insurance company? Seems like a poor "investment" to me!

[torrenova]

If you have substancial sums to invest, work on a fee basis. Salesmen love commission based products and dumb customers love not having to pay fees. Fools and their money et al.

[chiang mai]

You would be surprised Chiang_Mai...

You are unable to reclaim growth on investments held in the UK... only bank accounts, and what rate of interest do they pay?? If you decide you want to keep your money in a bank in the UK!?!? and reclaim this lost interest through savings tax, you need to complete an R85 form (and send directly to your bank), which can be found on the Inland Revenue web-site.

In the offshore market, there are currently 1 year term deposit accounts available which pay 9.5% gross for GBP currency protected, you can take an income monthly, quarterly or not at all. As interest rates are high and the markets are extremely volatile, this is a great option.

FYI... Inheritance tax rates for this year are 312,000GBP and 600k for a married couple under new legislation.

If you meet with an advisor, please avoid QUROPS like the plague, there are alternatives which still allow the tax efficient advantages for pension provisions to an expat and retain UK regulation.

Leicester, are you selling financial products in Asia by any chance?

[chiang mai]

If you have substancial sums to invest, work on a fee basis. Salesmen love commission based products and dumb customers love not having to pay fees. Fools and their money et al.

totally agreed

[fortuner88]

Hi , I am looking to make some investments in order to secure my financial future. Specifically, I want to ring fence my capital so as to make sure I don't run out of money over here (or where ever else I end up in South East Asia).

I'm a UK citizen and am intending dealing with this through UK products bought on the UK market. My question is do I need to traipse back to the UK or is there someone here I can deal with face to face, explain myself fully ,and have the paperwork fed back to the UK. Presumably others have trodden this path before ?

Hi, yes I know some one that might help you. He is from the UK and is a financial advicer for expats here in Asia.

Myself I've been his client for about 7 years and till now I'm quite happy even at this moment now with the recession

Let me know if you are interested and I will send you his contacts

[GuestHouse]

Hi , I am looking to make some investments in order to secure my financial future. Specifically, I want to ring fence my capital so as to make sure I don't run out of money over here (or where ever else I end up in South East Asia).

I'm a UK citizen and am intending dealing with this through UK products bought on the UK market. My question is do I need to traipse back to the UK or is there someone here I can deal with face to face, explain myself fully ,and have the paperwork fed back to the UK. Presumably others have trodden this path before ?

Hi, yes I know some one that might help you. He is from the UK and is a financial advicer for expats here in Asia.

Myself I've been his client for about 7 years and till now I'm quite happy even at this moment now with the recession

Let me know if you are interested and I will send you his contacts

A very unusual first post !!!

I would treat this invite to be introduced to this guys recommendation with extreme caution.

[bangkokjackk]

Hi , I am looking to make some investments in order to secure my financial future. Specifically, I want to ring fence my capital so as to make sure I don't run out of money over here (or where ever else I end up in South East Asia).

I'm a UK citizen and am intending dealing with this through UK products bought on the UK market. My question is do I need to traipse back to the UK or is there someone here I can deal with face to face, explain myself fully ,and have the paperwork fed back to the UK. Presumably others have trodden this path before ?

Hi, yes I know some one that might help you. He is from the UK and is a financial advicer for expats here in Asia.

Myself I've been his client for about 7 years and till now I'm quite happy even at this moment now with the recession

Let me know if you are interested and I will send you his contacts

A very unusual first post !!!

I would treat this invite to be introduced to this guys recommendation with extreme caution.

Yes do be careful and shop around. I can put myself forward for a 2nd opinion. I advise expats on their finances every day. I come from London. PM me if interested.

Thanks.

-Jack

[PattayaParent]

FYI... Inheritance tax rates for this year are 312,000GBP and 600k for a married couple under new legislation.

But only if your wife is UK domiciled.

If for example you have a Thai wife your nil rate band will be 367,000GBP.

[leicester]

FYI... Inheritance tax rates for this year are 312,000GBP and 600k for a married couple under new legislation.

But only if your wife is UK domiciled.

If for example you have a Thai wife your nil rate band will be 367,000GBP.

Correct! Well informed. Non-domiciled UK spouse has a 55,000GBP nil rate band for IHT purposes. Is the OP married? We are assuming the OP's circumstances, needs and goals. At least this will be an educating experience for readers....

Regarding the layering of fees for savings schemes with life companies Misty mentioned, this is opening a can of worms. 1) The OP is not interested in a savings plan, please read initial question and 2) Any advisor whom sells a savings plan longer than 15 years is only thinking about their own pocket as the client is committed to pay for the term and commissions are based on premium and term. There are some good financial advisors out there and unfortunately, there are many financial salesmen out there (big difference - the financial salesmen make more money but don't give 'best advice')... About time the IFA market in Thailand was shaken up to give expats the service they deserve.

For single premium investments, otherwise known as PPB's (Personal Portfolio Bonds), you benefit by becoming an institutional investor and therefore pay no bid-offer spread on funds within the bond. Charges are normally taken quarterly in arrears from amount invested. You can transfer existing assets i.e. UK shares etc into the bond and have growth paid tax free excluding the 10% taken at source on dividend payments of course). The providers I mentioned previously give clients an online facility to check performance as you would with your bank account. This is 2008, if your consultant is not giving transparent advice then don't do the business... SIMPLE!

Here is the answer to my challenge:

The 10% with-holding tax can be reclaimed as resident of Thailand... Thailand has dual tax treaty with Australia where this life company operates....

12 Month Investment Term

12 Month Investment Term

Currency

Effective Rate

Effective Rate

Net of Withholding Tax*

AUD

11.00%pa

9.85%pa

USD

6.50%pa

5.85%pa

GBP

9.50%pa

8.55%pa

EUR

8.35%pa

7.52%pa

SGD

4.90%pa

4.41%pa

JPY

4.00%pa

3.60%pa

CAD

6.50%pa

5.85%pa

NZD

11.75%pa

10.58%pa

HKD

5.75%pa

5.18%pa

CHF

5.75%pa

5.18%pa

THB

8.00%pa

7.20%pa

AED

4.00%pa

3.60%pa

TRY

20.50%pa

18.45%pa

SEK

8.00%pa

7.20%pa

ZAR

15.00%pa

13.50%pa

I am not going to give the name of the provider away but they are not a fly by night provider as Chiang_Mai would believe!

In conclusion to all these responses, don't sign anything unless you know exactly what you are getting, whom with, what the charges are and where funds are invested i.e. portfolio. Please feel free to fire any questions at me for clarification if you are not sure.

[chiang mai]

FYI... Inheritance tax rates for this year are 312,000GBP and 600k for a married couple under new legislation.

But only if your wife is UK domiciled.

If for example you have a Thai wife your nil rate band will be 367,000GBP.

Correct! Well informed. Non-domiciled UK spouse has a 55,000GBP nil rate band for IHT purposes. Is the OP married? We are assuming the OP's circumstances, needs and goals. At least this will be an educating experience for readers....

Regarding the layering of fees for savings schemes with life companies Misty mentioned, this is opening a can of worms. 1) The OP is not interested in a savings plan, please read initial question and 2) Any advisor whom sells a savings plan longer than 15 years is only thinking about their own pocket as the client is committed to pay for the term and commissions are based on premium and term. There are some good financial advisors out there and unfortunately, there are many financial salesmen out there (big difference - the financial salesmen make more money but don't give 'best advice')... About time the IFA market in Thailand was shaken up to give expats the service they deserve.

For single premium investments, otherwise known as PPB's (Personal Portfolio Bonds), you benefit by becoming an institutional investor and therefore pay no bid-offer spread on funds within the bond. Charges are normally taken quarterly in arrears from amount invested. You can transfer existing assets i.e. UK shares etc into the bond and have growth paid tax free excluding the 10% taken at source on dividend payments of course). The providers I mentioned previously give clients an online facility to check performance as you would with your bank account. This is 2008, if your consultant is not giving transparent advice then don't do the business... SIMPLE!

Here is the answer to my challenge:

The 10% with-holding tax can be reclaimed as resident of Thailand... Thailand has dual tax treaty with Australia where this life company operates....

12 Month Investment Term

12 Month Investment Term

Currency

Effective Rate

Effective Rate

Net of Withholding Tax*

AUD

11.00%pa

9.85%pa

USD

6.50%pa

5.85%pa

GBP

9.50%pa

8.55%pa

EUR

8.35%pa

7.52%pa

SGD

4.90%pa

4.41%pa

JPY

4.00%pa

3.60%pa

CAD

6.50%pa

5.85%pa

NZD

11.75%pa

10.58%pa

HKD

5.75%pa

5.18%pa

CHF

5.75%pa

5.18%pa

THB

8.00%pa

7.20%pa

AED

4.00%pa

3.60%pa

TRY

20.50%pa

18.45%pa

SEK

8.00%pa

7.20%pa

ZAR

15.00%pa

13.50%pa

I am not going to give the name of the provider away but they are not a fly by night provider as Chiang_Mai would believe!

In conclusion to all these responses, don't sign anything unless you know exactly what you are getting, whom with, what the charges are and where funds are invested i.e. portfolio. Please feel free to fire any questions at me for clarification if you are not sure.

There are no tier one UK financial institutions, on shore or offshore that pay a fixed rate of 9.5% on GBP over any term, end of story. But I guess what you have there is an Insurance Company Bond, Australian presumably and not a UK bank fixed rate deposit. I would be keen to see the details of it since almost certainly the capital is not protected and the return is linked to this that or the other.

[chiang mai]

I reckon this thread needs closing - the OP asked for advice on UK IFA's and UK investment products and not surprisingly this has attracted a passel of financial advisers touting their wares. Tempting resident ex pats with seemingly wonderful returns on their investments from Australian insurance companies is really what most of us are trying to avoid and those things should not be advertised here.

[leicester]

As of today, the EURO and US rates rose by 0.5% for the currency protected income fund with an extremely reliable investment company.... Whatever your thoughts are.... I am sure the OP will have a much better idea of how the offshore financial services industry works from these discussions and should now know not to keep his assets in the UK as he is non-resident.

We all have our opinions and people do lose money when investing as the greater the potential return, the greater the risk. Be savvy.... and remember, avoid QROPS (whatever the abbreviation is!) as they are being deregulated across the world, from Singapore, to Hong Kong and now to Guernsey where the policy holder will lose 50% of their fund value straight away. Most IFA's in Thailand are currently promoting this very strongly. Be aware!

[chiang mai]

Leicester, thank you for your PM and the material you sent me, it makes a useful point of reference for what I have to say here. First and foremost, this thread is not a personal attack against you and I am pleased to read that you feel passionately about your work. I also feel strongly about some things and one of them is that when it comes to providing financial advice there is a process that people should go through and as you pointed out earlier, the need for a "fact find" as you call it is key and vital. The provider of advice really does need to understand the individuals tolerance to risk and absolutely must understand the extent of an individuals existing holdings to ensure that additional products they might buy in the future continue to provide a balanced portfolio. Additionally, the advice provider must understand the life plans an individual has for the future. IFA's in the UK are required by law to consider these things and if they do not and they sell products that ignore those factors there are penalties and there is recourse for the individual. Outside of the UK the rules for the provision of advice are less stringent hence the potential for fraud, abuse or the provision of inappropriate advice is huge.

In your earlier post you talked of the high investment return on Sterling that is achievable through the company you mention and you are also critical of holders of Sterling as being unwise. But if the OP's home and end currency is Sterling it is clearly very appropriate for him to hold Sterling investments. As for the high returns you mention, we both know that such returns are not achieved without some element of risk yet you have quoted those returns without understanding the OP's risk tolerance. Such a approach smacks of someone who wants to sell products and earn commissions more than they want to provide water tight financial advice and Thailand is littered with such folk. Perhaps most importantly, there will be readers of this thread who will have seen the returns you quoted and will doubtless have been blinded by the high numbers and made contact with you. I can only hope that you force such would be clients down a route that assesses and takes full consideration of the points I have raised here and that you are prepared to turn around to them where appropriate and say no, sorry, this product is simply not for you.

Lastly, I think your statements on QROPS are misleading and plays to the fear factor of individuals. Indeed there are investment companies out there who are raping and pillaging policy holders but there are also others who can execute a QROPS transfer in the spirit it was intended and allow the policyholder to benefit over the longer term - this is simply a question of doing your homework properly.

Finally, I continue to believe this thread should be closed since it is nothing more than a sales vehicle for a range of individuals and that in itself is against forum rules. More importantly perhaps is the fact that its continued existence is potentially detrimental to the wealth of forum readers. And before anyone asks, no I'm not involved in the financial services industry but I have had meeting with a fair number of advisers in the past and understand that it is an industry that is wide open to abuse.