Building Quotes - $ Per Sq M ?

[podgey]

I've just had a builder quote me a house I'm planning on building. The cost of the house was worked out in baht per square meter of house. Is this a normal way to do things in Thailand, i have asked my building friend in Oz about it and he has never heard of a quoting system like that. Has anyone had any similar experience in this?

Cheers

[dickie58]

I've just had a builder quote me a house I'm planning on building. The cost of the house was worked out in baht per square meter of house. Is this a normal way to do things in Thailand, i have asked my building friend in Oz about it and he has never heard of a quoting system like that. Has anyone had any similar experience in this?

Cheers

This is the way a lot of builders & contractors price work in Thailand, the better way to go is, to get an accurate price is to get a full set of drawings done stating exactly what you want & what meterials & finishes you require, & get a builder to quote on that, lot more accurate, just getting a price per sqm, is very vague

[jimmym40]

Yes, I've been thru that several times before. It's the builders easy way to estimate/quote a price. The price can range between 5,000 baht up to 9,000 baht and even much higher. Depends on location/region of Thailand, and of course, depends on the quality you are looking for, i.e. Grade A or B or lower. Are you going to build in Ban Chang?

I've had built several homes throughout the last 20 yrs. Here's what I would recommend you do...

Get at least three bids on the basic structer of the home (price to include all concrete, iron, roofing material and the sort. Then, you say that you will provide all the: sinks, comodes, tile, granite, built-ins, windows, etc. Things that you can pick out and go for the high end or low end.

If you just get a per sq meter quote, you'll have differences in what "quality" goes in to the house.

The builders like to quote total move in cost per sq meter because then after you pick out the tile for let's say 250 a sq meter, the builder tells you, oh, I bid the project on paying only 180 baht a sq meter for the tile, you are responsible for the difference. Get my drift.

Another alternative would be to get three bids on the project for the "labor only". You pay for loads of concrete, iron as it is delivered. It's a lot of work, but you have more control over total costs.

THE MOST IMPORTANT procedure in having a house built is to have COMPLETE house/plans drawn up with every detail. The more detail the better. Like annotating plans where every electric plug goes, and I mean exact measurements. How high from the floor, how far from door entry, etc. WHY, because they just put things where it's the easiest and cheapest for them to do. Plugs in the kitchen should be at least 1.20 meters high to allow for possibly higher countertops and backsplash.

I would wire each room for a/c, just to have the breakers and wires put in in case you every want to put a/c in rooms later after house is built.

I've built serveral house in the US and several here and it is never easy. Again, I will stress that the house plans are most critical. Go over and over them until you are satisfied that all detailes are covered.

Maybe you have a plan that you've seen already and want to have built. That'll help considerably. But if you don't, and have a plot of land, you can also get some spray paint and paint the plan on the ground to get an idea of floor space, door openings, etc.

Sorry, I can go on and on, but just don't like seeing people make mistakes in these situation. If you have the floor plans and want me to review, you can mail to me and I'll make all my suggestions. I enjoy doing these kinds of things.

We live in Chaing Mai. I've been down to Ban Chang and have a couple friends down there. Neat Phala beach. I've been searching for maybe a condo or something down there for visits, but haven't found anything yet.

Hope some of this helps.

Good luck.

[podgey]

Thanks dickie and jimmy, good advice. I have been over my house plans again and think i need to review them with the Architect or draw them up again completely with someone else, positions of plugs and footing measurements, tolerances ect.

To answer your question jimmy i will be building in bang chang and i will happily forward the plans to you.

The dilemma is i have been recommended this builder by a friend who has used him before and swears by his work and keeps things reasonably honest cost wise. My mates house turned out very well, but then his local support situation and mine are very different. As I will not be around for probably half of the construction and my wife is not from this area, i need a builder whom comes very well recommended. My understanding is these builders a few and far between.

To do this builder credit though his quote was fair enough price wise for his "included materials", and the houses i have seen built by him are very high quality. His price per square meter is 12000 baht m2 for inside area's with double walls.

In my situation would it be better to pay extra for hopefully better quality and less dramas, have the builder organise himself, or hire a building manager and get the whole thing done differently?

[PattayaParent]

When you say 'double walls' do you mean cavity walls? The outer wall built of a two 'skins' of brickwork with a gap in between?

Or do you mean double thickness wals inside?

And what brickwork materials? Little red Thai bricks or proper concrete blocks? And how many floors? 1 or 2?

A couple of years go (before the construction materials price rises) a good quality (Farang quality) single storey 3 bedroom house would be around 10k Baht a square metre from a developer including all bathroom fittings, tiling and excluding kitchen and wardrobes.

So at todays rates 12k doesn't sound so bad if you're happy with the work you've seen by the guy.

Make sure you specify the standards of tiles, electrical fittings, cabling in conduit, bathroom fittings, doors and windows etc. you want up front to avoid any 'misundertandings' later. PVC window frames and double glazing will be extras.

In my friends experiences detail drawings don't matter a great deal as they don't look at the drawings anyway and will quite happily redo any mistakes you're not happy with rather than do things right first time.

[Klyph]

Recently been looking into the house building market myself... Prices in Bangkok range from 14K - 20K per sq. meter for a complete house, and 9K - 10K for structure-only.

By structure-only, they mean everything (including roof and paint) but no kitchen or bathroom utilities, tiles/wall coverings, electrical switches and lighting, or anything built-in.

A "complete house" may include everything but lighting (most Thai companies consider lighting as furniture).

For the record, Interior design is also charged on a per-square-meter basis.

[technocracy]

9-12k & 14k - 20k baht per sq metre !!!!!!!!!

My god!

I won't tell you what I paid here in Laos .. .. you'll be left crying in your beers!

Edited September 11, 2008 by technocracy

[egg6447]

The cost of the house was worked out in baht per square meter of house. Is this a normal way to do things in Thailand, .

no but its catching on at last. its like a one price fits all. used all the time in uk . the only method i know in the uk. if you can get your meterage for 7500bt your doing ok . if you want extras ie gold taps marble floors pan tile roof. that,ll be extra. negotiations required. you should get a decent barn for 7500, hacienda type place.

[excaliber]

I've just had a builder quote me a house I'm planning on building. The cost of the house was worked out in baht per square meter of house. Is this a normal way to do things in Thailand, i have asked my building friend in Oz about it and he has never heard of a quoting system like that. Has anyone had any similar experience in this?

Cheers

An experienced builder is able to quote by the SqM. The quote usually does not include: a/c, cabinetry and special fixtures, etc.

I work with one builder in my area who is considered the best around. People (both Thai & farang) don't mind waiting up to a year for this guy and his crew.

The finish crew are some of the best I've seen over the past 20 years of building and managing construction projects throughout the Kingdom.

Unfortunately he doesn't travel outside the local area unless the project is substantial enough. He charges between 12,000-15,000 baht/SqM (last time I spoke to him). (Isaan pricing is not the same as BKK and resort areas) A few years ago cost for building a house on Samui between 20k-30k/SqM.

It's also quite common to get a 'labor only' bid and purchase all the materials yourself or to a Project Manager who is taking care of the project.

As mentioned already, this is (in my opinion) the best way to go. If you care about the quality and quantity of materials although you or someone on 'your team' must make sure materials aren't wasted (no loss to the builder) and/or grow legs.

If your budget for everything is a considerable amount you may want to seriously consider hiring a Project Manager. One who has been in the country for sometime and experienced in all the above +++. There are lots of pros & cons regarding Thai Project Manager's and farang. If any of the following don't apply you may want to look for another PM.

1. Thai PM with 'western style' construction techniques and use of materials. You can't expect someone without actual experience to be responsible, this includes the builder/contractor as well.

2. Farang PM with local building experience and knowledge of Thai building techniques and practices. Must be able to communicate in Thai, all the way down to the workers who usually speak Isaan Lao. Some will dissagree with this and insist on talking with the boss instead of the workers. If the 'boss' or foreman is on site then yes, absolutely, but in reality the boss/contractor will only be seen when it's payment time. There are lots of tricks and scams in the building business here. One quite popular one is buying expensive labeled paint cans and filling them with cheap paint. A farang PM is better able to deal with these situations over a Thai PM. Why? because usually the builder is more affluent than the PM so the Thai PM is under the thumb of the builder.

fees for a farang PM will almost always cost more. Is it worth the extra cost? Lets look at a couple examples:

1. A good farang PM will negotiate an honest price with the builder where a Thai PM will most often NOT. (provided a proper & thorough BOQ is prepared)

2. A Thai PM who doesn't speak English (or whatever language you speak) will not always understand.

3. A good farang PM will make sure the proper materials are being used and not substituted for inferior and cheaper materials.

4. A good farang PM with both Thai & western experience will ensure standards are met. (Basically there are no standards for building in Thailand and no government building inspectors to ensure building to code, etc.

5. A good PM should be able to take care of just about everything from planning to finished project in a reasonable time.

so on and so forth.

I realize there are some shady farang PM's so you have to make sure you're hiring a competent PM. As mentioned, check his past performance and talk with past co-workers or homeowners, etc. Also, get him to talk with your wife or girlfriend 'in Thai' and ask her what she thinks/feels.

Some farange PM's fees are based on the overall cost of the project. 20% is most common although you will always find someone cheaper to do just about anything so it's up to you to decide if you want a house & structures build to western standards and not have to re-do and/or fix things all the time.

Bonus: If you're lucky and find a farang PM who is an Architect and builder he can do up the plans or re-do them, prepare finished drawings with both metric and feet & inches and both Thai and English translations and also a detailed BOQ. Without a BOQ you won't know if the builder/contractor is padding the material list.

The bottom line is: get a builder who will agree to a payment schedule based on work completed (and stick to it).

Make sure, one way or another, things are done right the first time to avoid additional time and expenses.

Make sure you have a detailed contract with the builder, witnessed and stamped. (a good PM can do this also)

If you want even more details for the builder you can prepare a detailed 'house description' that includes room-by-room details & photos of materials you want installed. Inlcuding model and manufacturer, etc. (a good PM can do this)

If your budget is less than 4-5mb then of course it may not be practical to hire a farang PM although there are many variables to consider.

There's a lot of advice on this forum, some good based on actual experience and some coming from an armchair with no substance.

good luck with your build.....

[egg]

I've just had a builder quote me a house I'm planning on building. The cost of the house was worked out in baht per square meter of house. Is this a normal way to do things in Thailand, i have asked my building friend in Oz about it and he has never heard of a quoting system like that. Has anyone had any similar experience in this?

Cheers

just a thought ,,,,, you might be better off buying all the materials yourself ,, as you would be aware ,, in Thailand their are many types of quality,,,, l would be worried that you will pay for good quality materials but the builder will buy cheap and charge top price ,,, we only paid our builder for the labour and purchased all the steel,cement,blocks,tiles ,,, etc,,etc,, ourselves ,,, saved a bit of Baht and got the quality we wanted ,,, sorry ,, cannot remember how much we paid per square metre

cheers

egg

footnote ,,,,, make sure you are onsite all the time

[ThaiItAgain]

Yes, I've been thru that several times before. It's the builders easy way to estimate/quote a price. The price can range between 5,000 baht up to 9,000 baht and even much higher. Depends on location/region of Thailand, and of course, depends on the quality you are looking for, i.e. Grade A or B or lower. Are you going to build in Ban Chang?

I've had built several homes throughout the last 20 yrs. Here's what I would recommend you do...

Get at least three bids on the basic structer of the home (price to include all concrete, iron, roofing material and the sort. Then, you say that you will provide all the: sinks, comodes, tile, granite, built-ins, windows, etc. Things that you can pick out and go for the high end or low end.

If you just get a per sq meter quote, you'll have differences in what "quality" goes in to the house.

The builders like to quote total move in cost per sq meter because then after you pick out the tile for let's say 250 a sq meter, the builder tells you, oh, I bid the project on paying only 180 baht a sq meter for the tile, you are responsible for the difference. Get my drift.

Another alternative would be to get three bids on the project for the "labor only". You pay for loads of concrete, iron as it is delivered. It's a lot of work, but you have more control over total costs.

THE MOST IMPORTANT procedure in having a house built is to have COMPLETE house/plans drawn up with every detail. The more detail the better. Like annotating plans where every electric plug goes, and I mean exact measurements. How high from the floor, how far from door entry, etc. WHY, because they just put things where it's the easiest and cheapest for them to do. Plugs in the kitchen should be at least 1.20 meters high to allow for possibly higher countertops and backsplash.

I would wire each room for a/c, just to have the breakers and wires put in in case you every want to put a/c in rooms later after house is built.

I've built serveral house in the US and several here and it is never easy. Again, I will stress that the house plans are most critical. Go over and over them until you are satisfied that all detailes are covered.

Maybe you have a plan that you've seen already and want to have built. That'll help considerably. But if you don't, and have a plot of land, you can also get some spray paint and paint the plan on the ground to get an idea of floor space, door openings, etc.

Sorry, I can go on and on, but just don't like seeing people make mistakes in these situation. If you have the floor plans and want me to review, you can mail to me and I'll make all my suggestions. I enjoy doing these kinds of things.

We live in Chaing Mai. I've been down to Ban Chang and have a couple friends down there. Neat Phala beach. I've been searching for maybe a condo or something down there for visits, but haven't found anything yet.

Hope some of this helps.

Good luck.

jimmym40'

Read your post with great interest seeing that it is my intention to build a home in the Chiang Mai province

A township called Phapi 10 mins up the line from San Sai luang. anyways It makes a lot of sense when you say that "one should advise that all internal materials such as tiles, electrical fittings, taps, screens, lights etc. will be provided by yourself Questions is however, to be able to do that I would suspect one would need to know exactly where to get all the stuff from and at the best price; and that knowledge doesn't come easy.

I have a set of plans from my friend who built his house in Brisbane I particularly like the way the master bedroom has been built and would like to use it. I also have a set of plans from a house that I built in Brisbane and I would like to explore the possibility of combining features from both plans to make one final plan. Unfortunately non of the plans have with them schedules of quantity so I have no idea as to how much materials would be required. I am lead to believe that Thais tend to get better pricing than Farangs when building; I also suspect that the overall quality of the homes might fall short of the quality of a home that would be built in Australia. (that is a stab in the dark comment)

I will be arriving in Chiang Mai toward the end of March and have the plans with me. Your comments that you like looking at plans and appear to have a wealth of knowledge of building in Chiang Mai, plus are prepared to offer a helping hand to persons who are embarking on the building home adventure; what are the chances of me making contact with you and perhaps picking up some pointers from you when i get to Chiang Mai.

I look forward to seeing your response on here.

Regards ThaiItAgain

[kenco]

I've just had a builder quote me a house I'm planning on building. The cost of the house was worked out in baht per square meter of house. Is this a normal way to do things in Thailand, I have asked my building friend in Oz about it and he has never heard of a quoting system like that. Has anyone had any similar experience in this?

Cheers

I have been in construction all my life and used to work for Costains and Laing in the UK. I recently had a home built in Chiang Mai near Sarapee albeit I work now in Florida. I have a Thai wife and she wanted a home where she is from Firstly there are so many wannabee experts in Thailand who are not builders. There are lots of crooks, liars, cheats and people who know nothing about construction. Take my advice pay the extra and use a proper registered construction company. One that insures its projects during the duration of the build, give guarantees, speaks fluent English and have someone in the company who does it for a career and has done all their life. Not a window cleaner or a flower seller who has come to Thailand and now is an expert in house building

Construction is a career not something you do as a hobby. Most of the homes in Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Phuket etc are so below standard it is ridiculous. To quote sqm prices is impossible for any builder without a full set of architectural drawings. Jimmy is absolutely correct and good advice from him.

It is totally impossible without them. Build prices are worked out by what is known as a BOQ (bill of quantity). This cannot be created without a finished set of plans. A house can cost 15,000 a sqm, 18,000 a sqm, 25,000 a sqm or even 60,000 a sqm. It varies and changes depending on your specific choices and decisions on materials. You control the price yourself a lot.

Step 1: architect prelims

Step 2 full set of architectural drawings

Step 3 build house

Good luck 

Edited February 23, 2009 by kenco

[Eagle60]

Read your post with great interest seeing that it is my intention to build a home in the Chiang Mai province

A township called Phapi 10 mins up the line from San Sai luang. anyways It makes a lot of sense when you say that "one should advise that all internal materials such as tiles, electrical fittings, taps, screens, lights etc. will be provided by yourself Questions is however, to be able to do that I would suspect one would need to know exactly where to get all the stuff from and at the best price; and that knowledge doesn't come easy.

I have a set of plans from my friend who built his house in Brisbane I particularly like the way the master bedroom has been built and would like to use it. I also have a set of plans from a house that I built in Brisbane and I would like to explore the possibility of combining features from both plans to make one final plan. Unfortunately non of the plans have with them schedules of quantity so I have no idea as to how much materials would be required. I am lead to believe that Thais tend to get better pricing than Farangs when building; I also suspect that the overall quality of the homes might fall short of the quality of a home that would be built in Australia. (that is a stab in the dark comment)

I will be arriving in Chiang Mai toward the end of March and have the plans with me. Your comments that you like looking at plans and appear to have a wealth of knowledge of building in Chiang Mai, plus are prepared to offer a helping hand to persons who are embarking on the building home adventure; what are the chances of me making contact with you and perhaps picking up some pointers from you when i get to Chiang Mai.

I look forward to seeing your response on here.

Regards ThaiItAgain

I clicked on the banner that says Builda House in Thailand House at the top of the page They are based in Chiang Mai. I e-mailed them to ask about house to build and they were very helpful indeed. Also everyone I asked in Chiang Mai said they are the best in Chiang mai and the only ones you can trust to do a good job. Maybe check them out and see. Have a good day.

[kaxper]

typically you want to get a consultant (or do it yourself) and start preparing a BOQ based on the architect plans and estimating a median price for each item as spec by the architect.

then you put out your house plans for construction bids with the BOQ (but without your median price estimates) and see what comes back and how far each contractor deviates from your median price, and how much overhead they put on top of the overall construction cost.

its only after having the total quotes (based on architect plans and BOQ) that you can impute the cost per sqm for your house.

a decent consultant should charge maybe 2-4% of your total construction cost ..

but this should be for the pre-construction consulting, and during the construction period where he basically acts as a go between you, your contractor and architect, and also audits the progress so you can make the payments (by completion) to the contractor.

hope this helps.