Bittorrent Users And Other Hogs At The Internet Trough

[Mapguy]

Dear "Thaihog" (who is the OP of the current "Downloaded Movie" thread on TV Chiang Mai Forum) and Friends,

Will you please stop hogging the Internet? I think there is promise that it will alleviate significantly a local Chiang Mai problem. I think many people in town have noticed significant drops in download and upload speeds lately regardless of ISP. I believe that part of it is a local problem.

First of all, let me tell you that I have the latest Intel Mac with more than adequate RAM and use Firefox with an add-on that eliminates some advertising and other unnecessary graphics trash that too many web sites unfortunately tend to use. I am not burdened by the bizarre security coding of Microsoft. That said, I would be grateful if internet hogs using BitTorrent and the like would stop downloading very large files, such as movies. There are truly inexpensive alternatives --- porn and blockbuster Hollywood files --- around town, especially when ripping off movies is concerned.

The problem, truly, is not just local. Wiring a country is a hugely expensive and time consuming task. And there are other problems: perhaps in part a Thai portal and distribution problem; occasionally (with Olympics demand, for example, it might be a regional distribution problem; and then, finally many will remember when traffic was choked for a while by trans-Pacific underseas coax cable breaks when happy birthday emails from here to Hawaii were being routed through Kazakistan and Egypt! But I do still think my problem (often as low as 5 – 15kps downloads --- which I could achieve easily before 1990!) is in large part local.

Talking about user habits, Internet "BitTorrent (and similar) Hogs" are certainly not the only problem. The increasing popularity of online interactive games and sites like "Facebook" is awesome. In Chiang Mai, just check out the number of motorbikes in front of the game parlours in the afternoon, let alone in the evening! Or, read the editorial in the current edition of Citylife! But BitTorrent and similar programs remain a serious problem. Truly, this sort of practice sucks up bandwidth, and it is very difficult for the infrastructure to keep up with such demands.

Many countries are getting into costing internet usage differently than it is costed at present. It turns out that only about 15% of internet users are "hogs." I think it is reasonable to charge by usage. What's odd about that?

Your thoughts?

[Lordfoul]

Would you kindly please stop checking your email?. I noticed a torrent I was Downloading went from 204KB to 203KB and wasted a second of my precious time.

Dear "Thaihog" (who is the OP of the current "Downloaded Movie" thread on TV Chiang Mai Forum) and Friends,

Will you please stop hogging the Internet? I think there is promise that it will alleviate significantly a local Chiang Mai problem. I think many people in town have noticed significant drops in download and upload speeds lately regardless of ISP. I believe that part of it is a local problem.

First of all, let me tell you that I have the latest Intel Mac with more than adequate RAM and use Firefox with an add-on that eliminates some advertising and other unnecessary graphics trash that too many web sites unfortunately tend to use. I am not burdened by the bizarre security coding of Microsoft. That said, I would be grateful if internet hogs using BitTorrent and the like would stop downloading very large files, such as movies. There are truly inexpensive alternatives --- porn and blockbuster Hollywood files --- around town, especially when ripping off movies is concerned.

The problem, truly, is not just local. Wiring a country is a hugely expensive and time consuming task. And there are other problems: perhaps in part a Thai portal and distribution problem; occasionally (with Olympics demand, for example, it might be a regional distribution problem; and then, finally many will remember when traffic was choked for a while by trans-Pacific underseas coax cable breaks when happy birthday emails from here to Hawaii were being routed through Kazakistan and Egypt! But I do still think my problem (often as low as 5 – 15kps downloads --- which I could achieve easily before 1990!) is in large part local.

Talking about user habits, Internet "BitTorrent (and similar) Hogs" are certainly not the only problem. The increasing popularity of online interactive games and sites like "Facebook" is awesome. In Chiang Mai, just check out the number of motorbikes in front of the game parlours in the afternoon, let alone in the evening! Or, read the editorial in the current edition of Citylife! But BitTorrent and similar programs remain a serious problem. Truly, this sort of practice sucks up bandwidth, and it is very difficult for the infrastructure to keep up with such demands.

Many countries are getting into costing internet usage differently than it is costed at present. It turns out that only about 15% of internet users are "hogs." I think it is reasonable to charge by usage. What's odd about that?

Your thoughts?

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Imagine people having the tenacity to actually think they can use the internet!

Maybe TV users are using up all the bandwidth in Changers!

[niller74]

I agree to a certain extend. The problem with the Bittorrent and other P2P protocols is their aggressive way of getting bandwidth.

Furthermore most of the P2P clients available do not follow standards in terms of ports, wrapping, etc., which makes it very hard for system administrators to shape the traffic so everyone is happy.

It is really hard to blame the users of P2P programs. Most people don't even know how to limit their bandwidth usage, and they really don't care. Appealing for strangers to cut down their usage in order to guarantee your bandwidth isn't going to have any effect.

[highonthai]

<deleted>?

Sorry I'll keep it short. Oh wait let me turn off the AC,outside lights, all the Tv's and not flush the toilet....

If I pay for it I'm going to use it! OP, down load you heart out. I don't care.

Maybe some of you computer geeks need to shut yours off and get some fresh air.

Edited September 7, 2008 by highonthai

[Contractor]

I do not know whether this happens in Thailand, but ISPs can restrict certain types of usage, including making it difficult to use P2P applications. Complain to your provider!

[niller74]

<deleted>?

Sorry I'll keep it short. Oh wait let me turn off the AC,outside lights, all the Tv's and not flush the toilet....

If I pay for it I'm going to use it! OP, down load you heart out. I don't care.

Maybe some of you computer geeks need to shut yours off and get some fresh air.

Interesting comment.. Never heard that one before.

The fact is that P2P traffic is becoming more and more of a problem on the Internet. Several ISPs have introduced restrictions and it will most likely also happen here in Thailand to accommodate the lack of international bandwidth.

[lannarebirth]

I think you can't ask people to change their habuts in this way, as they probably still arent getting the speed they're paying for evn if they are hogging all the bandwidth. I think a better solution is have the ISP charge extra for excessixe use till these folks decide it's cheaper to buy the ripoff DVD than dowload the ripoff internet file.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Aren't torrents also used to share open source software legally and although torrents are used they may not be being used for illegal purposes?

[niller74]

Aren't torrents also used to share open source software legally and although torrents are used they may not be being used for illegal purposes?

Yes, but if I stated that at least 95% of the torrents that are downloaded are copyrighted in some way, would you object?

[The Dan Sai Kid]

No, but it seems a shame to block torrents when there are legitimate means under which it could be used.

The bottom line is that the internet infrastructure in Thailand is woefully underfunded.

[lannarebirth]

When Global Crossing met with CAT executves about hooking into the underseas cables they'd layed, the response was reportedly said to be "how much will you pay us?".

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Yesterday I watched the Scotland/Macedonia game on a Macedonian TV website - I would never bother doing that with a Thai one cos I know it would be too slow.

So, Thailand: crapper internet than Macedonia!

Edited September 7, 2008 by The Dan Sai Kid

[Mapguy]

I think you can't ask people to change their habuts in this way, as they probably still arent getting the speed they're paying for evn if they are hogging all the bandwidth. I think a better solution is have the ISP charge extra for excessixe use till these folks decide it's cheaper to buy the ripoff DVD than dowload the ripoff internet file.

I agree that the most practical answer is variable pricing although that is certainly not the only problem in the mix.

Elsewhere someone wrote that there are some legitimate uses for BitTorrent and its cousins. Perhaps there are, but I rather doubt that that is a realistic assessment of their use (and I look forward to kudos on that understatement!).

What I was simply pointing out is that there is indeed a problem, and as I read the news, ISPs are (fairly or unfairly) often pointing the finger at the "hogs." That isn't the only problem by far the way usage is skyrocketing, but consider some simple inconvenient facts (from a simple user's point of view):

1. It is much more difficult to get a decent (usually uploaded; sometimes downloaded) Skype connection these days;

2. iChat and AOL AIM are among several look-and-chat capabilities that are often degraded to two-cans-on-a-string communication;

3. All but quick patches to operating systems become onerous to download --- and I don't have to deal often with Microsoft (which is a whole other issue!);

4. Email can take donkey's years to upload.

A larger problem --- in my view --- is the "bells and whistles effect." That is, the tendency of web site developers to totally overdo graphics and interactive functions. When "cloud capability" becomes de rigeur, I shudder at the effect upon "56k" users, like the government schools of Thailand.

I ask politely that hogs back off! It is rather like using a "party line" in the old days of using a telephone. Not certain how "party line" translates. It simply means that you shared a line with other households in the neighborhood. You could literally hear and break into some neighbor's conversation on your party line! There had to be some civility among those sharing a party line and there was, in my experience. Well, it is a new day with new technology. I just hope that civility has not gone out of fashion.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Mapguy

[Lordfoul]

So if Torrents are slowing everything down explain why I don't have a problem doing any of these things?. In fact I can do most of these quite well while downloading a torrent.

If 2 people in Thailand are downloading the same torrent the can download off each "locally" reducing the strain on international bandwidth. if 2 people are watching a video on youtube the are both draining international bandwidth and giving nothing back locally.

I think you can't ask people to change their habuts in this way, as they probably still arent getting the speed they're paying for evn if they are hogging all the bandwidth. I think a better solution is have the ISP charge extra for excessixe use till these folks decide it's cheaper to buy the ripoff DVD than dowload the ripoff internet file.

I agree that the most practical answer is variable pricing although that is certainly not the only problem in the mix.

Elsewhere someone wrote that there are some legitimate uses for BitTorrent and its cousins. Perhaps there are, but I rather doubt that that is a realistic assessment of their use (and I look forward to kudos on that understatement!).

What I was simply pointing out is that there is indeed a problem, and as I read the news, ISPs are (fairly or unfairly) often pointing the finger at the "hogs." That isn't the only problem by far the way usage is skyrocketing, but consider some simple inconvenient facts (from a simple user's point of view):

1. It is much more difficult to get a decent (usually uploaded; sometimes downloaded) Skype connection these days;

2. iChat and AOL AIM are among several look-and-chat capabilities that are often degraded to two-cans-on-a-string communication;

3. All but quick patches to operating systems become onerous to download --- and I don't have to deal often with Microsoft (which is a whole other issue!);

4. Email can take donkey's years to upload.

A larger problem --- in my view --- is the "bells and whistles effect." That is, the tendency of web site developers to totally overdo graphics and interactive functions. When "cloud capability" becomes de rigeur, I shudder at the effect upon "56k" users, like the government schools of Thailand.

I ask politely that hogs back off! It is rather like using a "party line" in the old days of using a telephone. Not certain how "party line" translates. It simply means that you shared a line with other households in the neighborhood. You could literally hear and break into some neighbor's conversation on your party line! There had to be some civility among those sharing a party line and there was, in my experience. Well, it is a new day with new technology. I just hope that civility has not gone out of fashion.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

SO why don't Thai ISPs have download limits?

[justcruisin]

Ahhh...now it is clear to me why I have to make my free phone calls (very) early in the morning.....Thankyou

The system seemed unobstructed until a few months ago...seems to be completely choked with bandwidth hogs

and their video streaming.maybe it has gone on longer but the the whole system crashes when the 19 to 25 year old kiddies come home from school and play the online games,only excerbarating the the problem.

What you pay for is what you get.Good to have such good infrastructure..duhhh

[clokwise]

Well despite the Maxnet 590 baht promotion my service is still at 100% capacity, including torrents. I'm sorry the OP is having trouble with his emails and Facebook and whatnot, but I'd be willing to bet that the problem may not entirely be related to people hogging bandwidth. Having managed several large sites hosted all around the world, when problems occur I can attest that local bandwidth is rarely the cause. The OP could be experiencing any number of hosting issues at the site he is visiting, or issues with the hardware on the pipe from here to there. Even here at home Maxnet once in a while just dies requiring me to turn off the router for 5 minutes to get a new IP address. Once back up, the speeds are back to normal.

I consider my torrent downloading to actually be a positive thing for the country - I'm doing my part to rid the local streets of those fake DVD merchants by downloading instead of buying my pirated movies from those scumbags.

[vagabond48]

SO why don't Thai ISPs have download limits?

I think they are. Over the last 3 months (PAD slowdown?) I have used wifi extensively at 3 different locations and my torrents and software update download speeds when it is is good, averages 7k to 10k bps (remember 9.6k dialup modems). Same complains around Thailand read Slow Internet on the Internet, computers, communication, technology in Thailand forum.

[2008bangkok]

This thread is just wrong..... if you pay for it then why not use it..i want to use every last kb of my bandwidth an so i should...

some people are just born to moan

[Lordfoul]

So why do you think "they" have selectivly chosen to place download limits on you and not clockwise who has no limits?.

SO why don't Thai ISPs have download limits?

I think they are. Over the last 3 months (PAD slowdown?) I have used wifi extensively at 3 different locations and my torrents and software update download speeds when it is is good, averages 7k to 10k bps (remember 9.6k dialup modems). Same complains around Thailand read Slow Internet on the Internet, computers, communication, technology in Thailand forum.

[Naam]

Talking about user habits, Internet "BitTorrent (and similar) Hogs" are certainly not the only problem. The increasing popularity of online interactive games and sites like "Facebook" is awesome.

Many countries are getting into costing internet usage differently than it is costed at present. It turns out that only about 15% of internet users are "hogs." I think it is reasonable to charge by usage. What's odd about that?

Your thoughts?

the funny thing is that mostly the "hogs" are the ones who are complaining of low international speeds. my thoughts and two Satangs are "slaughter the hogs or make them pay through their noses!"

[Naam]

I consider my torrent downloading to actually be a positive thing for the country - I'm doing my part to rid the local streets of those fake DVD merchants by downloading instead of buying my pirated movies from those scumbags.

some logic!

[Lordfoul]

Just as I thought Mapguy is the real "hog" Good catch

Talking about user habits, Internet "BitTorrent (and similar) Hogs" are certainly not the only problem. The increasing popularity of online interactive games and sites like "Facebook" is awesome.

Many countries are getting into costing internet usage differently than it is costed at present. It turns out that only about 15% of internet users are "hogs." I think it is reasonable to charge by usage. What's odd about that?

Your thoughts?

the funny thing is that mostly the "hogs" are the ones who are complaining of low international speeds. my thoughts and two Satangs are "slaughter the hogs or make them pay through their noses!"

[vagabond48]

So why do you think "they" have selectivly chosen to place download limits on you and not clockwise who has no limits?.

Your comment is a bit flawed. I just moved to a new place and the landlord warned me that the internet was very slow and drops often, thats why he no longer charges for it, so just like the previous place I lived in for nearly a year, internet access when I moved there was already slow.

Besides you have no clue how often I downloaded.

I hope, like a number of other TV members, you don't serve on any juries. I can just hear the jury foreman say, " HEY LORDFOUL, WAKEUP", and you saying in a daze "GUILTY"

Nice try for a flame.

[Lordfoul]

Ah so now we get the real story. You are not using an ISP you are using your buildings shared connection.

I never commented at all on how much you download. You said that you felt there was a cap based on your experiences.

Would this same jury find you innocent.

Quote from you

"I have used wifi extensively at 3 different locations and my torrents"

So why do you think "they" have selectivly chosen to place download limits on you and not clockwise who has no limits?.

Your comment is a bit flawed. I just moved to a new place and the landlord warned me that the internet was very slow and drops often, thats why he no longer charges for it, so just like the previous place I lived in for nearly a year, internet access when I moved there was already slow.

Besides you have no clue how often I downloaded.

I hope, like a number of other TV members, you don't serve on any juries. I can just hear the jury foreman say, " HEY LORDFOUL, WAKEUP", and you saying in a daze "GUILTY"

Nice try for a flame.

[Chuckler]

truly a tragedy of the commons

[Thaihog]

Dear "Thaihog" (who is the OP of the current "Downloaded Movie" thread on TV Chiang Mai Forum) and Friends,

Will you please stop hogging the Internet? I think there is promise that it will alleviate significantly a local Chiang Mai problem. I think many people in town have noticed significant drops in download and upload speeds lately regardless of ISP. I believe that part of it is a local problem.

First of all, let me tell you that I have the latest Intel Mac with more than adequate RAM and use Firefox with an add-on that eliminates some advertising and other unnecessary graphics trash that too many web sites unfortunately tend to use. I am not burdened by the bizarre security coding of Microsoft. That said, I would be grateful if internet hogs using BitTorrent and the like would stop downloading very large files, such as movies. There are truly inexpensive alternatives --- porn and blockbuster Hollywood files --- around town, especially when ripping off movies is concerned.

The problem, truly, is not just local. Wiring a country is a hugely expensive and time consuming task. And there are other problems: perhaps in part a Thai portal and distribution problem; occasionally (with Olympics demand, for example, it might be a regional distribution problem; and then, finally many will remember when traffic was choked for a while by trans-Pacific underseas coax cable breaks when happy birthday emails from here to Hawaii were being routed through Kazakistan and Egypt! But I do still think my problem (often as low as 5 – 15kps downloads --- which I could achieve easily before 1990!) is in large part local.

Talking about user habits, Internet "BitTorrent (and similar) Hogs" are certainly not the only problem. The increasing popularity of online interactive games and sites like "Facebook" is awesome. In Chiang Mai, just check out the number of motorbikes in front of the game parlours in the afternoon, let alone in the evening! Or, read the editorial in the current edition of Citylife! But BitTorrent and similar programs remain a serious problem. Truly, this sort of practice sucks up bandwidth, and it is very difficult for the infrastructure to keep up with such demands.

Many countries are getting into costing internet usage differently than it is costed at present. It turns out that only about 15% of internet users are "hogs." I think it is reasonable to charge by usage. What's odd about that?

Your thoughts?

Mapguy,

Get a life. When I download it is done during the wee hours of the morning when everybody is sleeping. For your info I only download movies periodically, I mostly download UK series like Top Gear, Fifth Gear & the soaps of course. So unless you know another way that I can watch UK TV bleep, bleep, bleep......

[lannarebirth]

I mostly download UK series like Top Gear, Fifth Gear & the soaps of course. So unless you know another way that I can watch UK TV bleep, bleep, bleep......

I always assumed people moved to Thailand for what Thailand had to offer, not so it was an outpost of where they came from. The simple answer to your question as how you might watch UK TV is either get UBC or move back.

[Lordfoul]

And he can't have both "what Thailand has to offer" and watch UK TV because you say so?.

Lot of people around here seem to like telling people how they should lives their lives. Is that why you moved to Thailand?.

I mostly download UK series like Top Gear, Fifth Gear & the soaps of course. So unless you know another way that I can watch UK TV bleep, bleep, bleep......

I always assumed people moved to Thailand for what Thailand had to offer, not so it was an outpost of where they came from. The simple answer to your question as how you might watch UK TV is either get UBC or move back.