Can Investors Still Make Money In The Jomtien/pattaya Real Estate Market Even During A Downturn ?

[KhunTao]

The theory is as follows:

In Thailand, a significant premium is paced on the latest, hottest condominiums that have just been launched or are about to approach the market. Older units, including ones in the 5-15 years bracket, trade at a considerable discount, taking into account that color schemes, kitchens, appliances and bathroom fittings are no longer in accordance with today´s minimalist fashion. It is quite bizarre to think that there are units being sold out there priced at well over Bt. 100,000.00 per m2 that will be actually delivered in around 3-4 years´ time (assuming no building delays will occur) .....

In certain cases, the high discount at which such illiquid older units trade makes it worthwhile considering a comprehensive gutting and remodeling job to the extent that the repositioned unit can compete with the latest and most popular projects. It is quite possible to find existing beachfront condos on high floors in older buildings in Jomtien that can be snapped up at Bt.40,000 – Bt. 50,000 per m2, perfect candidates for a make-over. Theoretically, such real live "move in tomorrow" remodeled units should be able to compete quite well with the "pie in the sky, wait a mere 4 years" units trading at much higher prices.

This is the theory, any live experience out there ?

Please let me have your views …

Edited September 10, 2008 by Jomtienrealestateinvestor

[JimmyTheMook]

I have 2 condo's lined up for purchase that fit the above criteria.

If they were bought now how long would you be willing to hold onto them and for what type of profit upon sale would you consider worthwhile for the endeavor ?

Times used to good with the quick flip on a condo renovation.

[KhunTao]

Hi Jimmy,

I think that the timing of buying & renovation has to tie in with the low season/high season cycle. I.e. buy & renovate during the low season (April to September), bring to the market for a sale during the high season (October to March). This way, hopefully you can secure the lowest purchase price (i.e. bid for units whilst very few others are in the market) and sell whilst punters (wise investors) are on the prowl.

In my opinion, this would be worthwhile if you would be able to achieve a capital gain of minimally 15% in a 6-9 months´ time frame.

I would further consider furnishing the renovated unit and bring it on the market as a turn-key item. I think that the furniture packages at the Park and Suan Sawarn (both TAG Group projects) show that a big bang can be achieved with very little money.

[JimmyTheMook]

Hi Jimmy,

I think that the timing of buying & renovation has to tie in with the low season/high season cycle. I.e. buy & renovate during the low season (April to September), bring to the market for a sale during the high season (October to March). This way, hopefully you can secure the lowest purchase price (i.e. bid for units whilst very few others are in the market) and sell whilst punters (wise investors) are on the prowl.

In my opinion, this would be worthwhile if you would be able to achieve a capital gain of minimally 15% in a 6-9 months´ time frame.

I would further consider furnishing the renovated unit and bring it on the market as a turn-key item. I think that the furniture packages at the Park and Suan Sawarn (both TAG Group projects) show that a big bang can be achieved with very little money.

The market will be saturated with condo's come this high season.

Why would you want money tied up in something so hard to liquadate ?

[donx]

I don't have any experience with this, but there is a guy that used to post often on here that claimed to make a killing renovating and selling condos in Pattaya. I can't remember his logon name, but perhaps he will read this and respond. You could also do a search for "Pattaya condo renovations" or something similar to find his posts. If I remember correctly, he chose small units from certain projects and renovated them to a very high standard. He also had good contacts with subcontractors which meant he could keep his costs low in order to maximize his profits. I believe he said this was a full time job.

[johnnyk]

My experience in LoS is that pretty well all theories and plans go out the (high) window quite quickly when Thai reality arrives.

[Crash999]

In certain cases, the high discount at which such illiquid older units trade makes it worthwhile considering a comprehensive gutting and remodeling job to the extent that the repositioned unit can compete with the latest and most popular projects. It is quite possible to find existing beachfront condos on high floors in older buildings in Jomtien that can be snapped up at Bt.40,000 – Bt. 50,000 per m2, perfect candidates for a make-over. Theoretically, such real live "move in tomorrow" remodeled units should be able to compete quite well with the "pie in the sky, wait a mere 4 years" units trading at much higher prices.

There are a lot of folks doing this in Hong Kong, though of course the price of renovation as a % of the total cost of the unit is lower.

[lifeisrandom]

um, its not realistic to make money in real estate during an economic collapse.

however you can make moves that will pay you back later when things turn around...

but if the economy is shrinking, then the price of whatever you bought will shrink with it.

Edited September 22, 2008 by lifeisrandom

[steveromagnino]

um, its not realistic to make money in real estate during an economic collapse.

however you can make moves that will pay you back later when things turn around...

but if the economy is shrinking, then the price of whatever you bought will shrink with it.

One of my clients has purchased 3 different beach front condos, all mostly Thai owned buildings, older (at least 15 years old) for around 50-75k per sqm, and has renovated and been selling them in the last 3-4 months (3 units) for 100k+ per sqm.

She knows exactly what she is doing and picks high floor units, and mostly is selling to Thais (and buying from Thais).

Hard to see whether this is possible after the last 2 weeks, but time will tell; low season in Pattaya from now until Nov anyhow.

[billaaa777]

There is big money to be made in the Pattaya real estate market, but you really need to know what you doing and what is moving at the present time. The buyers are going more upscale everyday.

All the doom and gloom talkers, as usual, don’t have a clue. But they keep talking and posting their crap any way.

I have 5 units in one building that just hit the 49% foreign ownership yesterday. I have already sold 3 in and just re-bought other units. Now the people who want to buy units in the building can no longer go to the sales office and buy them. They have to come to me or people like me. For those of you that say the market is dead, I estimate this building sold 64 units last month to hit the 49%, that is a lot of units.

Pattaya is for the most part not like any other location in that the majority of the people buying here have all ready made their money and really don’t care about the world wide economy. Sure, it would better if the economy was still strong, but you can still do well if you know what you’re doing.

I have a friend of mine that has even done better than me. He bought 8 units in one building and he lives in 2. He sold the other 6 and then bought 6 more. He is going to make a killing this year.

[JimmyTheMook]

I have 5 units in one building that just hit the 49% foreign ownership yesterday. I have already sold 3 in and just re-bought other units. Now the people who want to buy units in the building can no longer go to the sales office and buy them. They have to come to me or people like me. For those of you that say the market is dead, I estimate this building sold 64 units last month to hit the 49%, that is a lot of units.

What project ?

Smells like total BS.

[fidelio]

There is big money to be made in the Pattaya real estate market, but you really need to know what you doing and what is moving at the present time. The buyers are going more upscale everyday.

All the doom and gloom talkers, as usual, don't have a clue. But they keep talking and posting their crap any way.

I have 5 units in one building that just hit the 49% foreign ownership yesterday. I have already sold 3 in and just re-bought other units. Now the people who want to buy units in the building can no longer go to the sales office and buy them. They have to come to me or people like me. For those of you that say the market is dead, I estimate this building sold 64 units last month to hit the 49%, that is a lot of units.

Pattaya is for the most part not like any other location in that the majority of the people buying here have all ready made their money and really don't care about the world wide economy. Sure, it would better if the economy was still strong, but you can still do well if you know what you're doing.

I have a friend of mine that has even done better than me. He bought 8 units in one building and he lives in 2. He sold the other 6 and then bought 6 more. He is going to make a killing this year.

Cut the fuc_king crap.

You are a liar , nothing else.

[JimmyTheMook]

There is big money to be made in the Pattaya real estate market, but you really need to know what you doing and what is moving at the present time. The buyers are going more upscale everyday.

All the doom and gloom talkers, as usual, don't have a clue. But they keep talking and posting their crap any way.

I have 5 units in one building that just hit the 49% foreign ownership yesterday. I have already sold 3 in and just re-bought other units. Now the people who want to buy units in the building can no longer go to the sales office and buy them. They have to come to me or people like me. For those of you that say the market is dead, I estimate this building sold 64 units last month to hit the 49%, that is a lot of units.

Pattaya is for the most part not like any other location in that the majority of the people buying here have all ready made their money and really don't care about the world wide economy. Sure, it would better if the economy was still strong, but you can still do well if you know what you're doing.

I have a friend of mine that has even done better than me. He bought 8 units in one building and he lives in 2. He sold the other 6 and then bought 6 more. He is going to make a killing this year.

Cut the fuc_king crap.

You are a liar , nothing else.

either that or a real eastate agent

[midas]

There is big money to be made in the Pattaya real estate market, but you really need to know what you doing and what is moving at the present time. The buyers are going more upscale everyday.

All the doom and gloom talkers, as usual, don’t have a clue. But they keep talking and posting their crap any way.

I have 5 units in one building that just hit the 49% foreign ownership yesterday. I have already sold 3 in and just re-bought other units. Now the people who want to buy units in the building can no longer go to the sales office and buy them. They have to come to me or people like me. For those of you that say the market is dead, I estimate this building sold 64 units last month to hit the 49%, that is a lot of units.

Pattaya is for the most part not like any other location in that the majority of the people buying here have all ready made their money and really don’t care about the world wide economy. Sure, it would better if the economy was still strong, but you can still do well if you know what you’re doing.

I have a friend of mine that has even done better than me. He bought 8 units in one building and he lives in 2. He sold the other 6 and then bought 6 more. He is going to make a killing this year.

billaaa even if what you say is true- you cannot possibly deny that with everything

that has happened in the US over the past few days ( eg George Bush on tv last

night warning the people about a possible " panic " ) that EVENTUALLY this MUST FILTER

through to Thailand . I know this is Disneyland but the property market here cannot possibly avoid being hit by

a bus sooner or later - its impossible for there to be a permanent disconnect between Thailand and

th rest of the world

[billaaa777]

Smells like total BS.

Cut the fuc_king crap.

You are a liar , nothing else.

either that or a real eastate agent

Just two more low life drunks, living here on 20,000 a month mad at the world. Too bad, if you can't do it I can. If you have any money, which I know you don’t, I will sell you a few units. Every time real estate is discussed on this site clowns like you come out posting on something you know nothing about. That’s why I don’t post to much any more because of people like you two!

billaaa even if what you say is true- you cannot possibly deny that with everything

that has happened in the US over the past few days ( eg George Bush on tv last

night warning the people about a possible " panic " ) that EVENTUALLY this MUST FILTER

through to Thailand

Look, I think I said above the market is STRONG; it is not great like it used to be. Where you could buy anything and sell it the day you finished renovations. Now, you need to be selective, very selective on what you buy and have a plan on why you’re buying it and how you’re going to sell it.

The market is moving more upscale everyday, as the trash like to two above get pushed out. This is a very important point I made above and I think you missed it, in fact I am sure it just flew over your head. The vast majority of people buying condos here, are already RICH or RETIRED, they have already made their money. They don’t care about what is going on else where, because they are all ready set for life. That being said, if there was not a world wide slow down and if the government ever gets it act back together we will go back to the happy days again. When you bought it under the premises, “you buy they will come to buy it from you.”

I think that covers that subject for a little while any way. At least until the two fools read my latest post and come back with their wise as s remarks about something they know nothing about. And by the way, for those two and anybody else that might be reading, I am NOT a real estate agent. They have to work way to hard and I am lazy. I just like to work the three hours in the morning renovating the units, then head to the golf course and finally cap the night off with a trip to Walking Street. Life sucks, I know, but somebody has to do it, and the way I figure it, it might as well be me.

[LennyW]

Smells like total BS.

Cut the fuc_king crap.

You are a liar , nothing else.

either that or a real eastate agent

Just two more low life drunks, living here on 20,000 a month mad at the world. Too bad, if you can't do it I can. If you have any money, which I know you don't, I will sell you a few units. Every time real estate is discussed on this site clowns like you come out posting on something you know nothing about. That's why I don't post to much any more because of people like you two!

billaaa even if what you say is true- you cannot possibly deny that with everything

that has happened in the US over the past few days ( eg George Bush on tv last

night warning the people about a possible " panic " ) that EVENTUALLY this MUST FILTER

through to Thailand

Look, I think I said above the market is STRONG; it is not great like it used to be. Where you could buy anything and sell it the day you finished renovations. Now, you need to be selective, very selective on what you buy and have a plan on why you're buying it and how you're going to sell it.

The market is moving more upscale everyday, as the trash like to two above get pushed out. This is a very important point I made above and I think you missed it, in fact I am sure it just flew over your head. The vast majority of people buying condos here, are already RICH or RETIRED, they have already made their money. They don't care about what is going on else where, because they are all ready set for life. That being said, if there was not a world wide slow down and if the government ever gets it act back together we will go back to the happy days again. When you bought it under the premises, "you buy they will come to buy it from you."

I think that covers that subject for a little while any way. At least until the two fools read my latest post and come back with their wise as s remarks about something they know nothing about. And by the way, for those two and anybody else that might be reading, I am NOT a real estate agent. They have to work way to hard and I am lazy. I just like to work the three hours in the morning renovating the units, then head to the golf course and finally cap the night off with a trip to Walking Street. Life sucks, I know, but somebody has to do it, and the way I figure it, it might as well be me.

I dont know why people keep referring to the US state of affairs as any sort of example, for christ sake, do people not understand yet that China and Japan own most of the debt in the US, the ham shanks are in for an even bigger wake up call when that debt is to be collected!!!!

[midas]

The market is moving more upscale everyday, as the trash like to two above get pushed out. This is a very important point I made above and I think you missed it, in fact I am sure it just flew over your head. The vast majority of people buying condos here, are already RICH or RETIRED, they have already made their money. They don’t care about what is going on else where, because they are all ready set for life. That being said, if there was not a world wide slow down and if the government ever gets it act back together we will go back to the happy days again. When you bought it under the premises, “you buy they will come to buy it from you.”

But you are assuming that Thailand can survive in a total vacuum ?

Admittedly there are many retirees and rich people in Thailand but I doubt if they have all moved ALL their money

into Thai bank accounts? Some will still be relying one way or another on incomes from USA or other countries

and some may be unlucky enough to suffer further from more bank closures in the future if this bailout

does not work. There is no doubt the USA is in for some very big changes and those changes are bound to

have a substantial effect on the rest of the world. As for the health of Asia, let's see what happens when

Asian exports plummet over the next few months as consumer demand in the world's biggest economy

goes into steep decline !

[fidelio]

Just two more low life drunks, living here on 20,000 a month mad at the world. Too bad, if you can't do it I can. If you have any money, which I know you don't, I will sell you a few units. Every time real estate is discussed on this site clowns like you come out posting on something you know nothing about. That's why I don't post to much any more because of people like you two!

Actually living on 20,000x25 a month.

You stupid cun_t

[JimmyTheMook]

Just two more low life drunks, living here on 20,000 a month mad at the world.

Great assumption.

Now, you need to be selective, very selective on what you buy and have a plan on why you're buying it and how you're going to sell it.

Write a book with brilliant statements like that.

The market is moving more upscale everyday, as the trash like to two above get pushed out.

And you're buying tiny little View Talay units ?

finally cap the night off with a trip to Walking Street. Life sucks

Yeah , living here and still hanging around Walking Street like a dumb tourist - it must.

Probably a good venue to sell your renovated units though......

[LennyW]

The market is moving more upscale everyday, as the trash like to two above get pushed out. This is a very important point I made above and I think you missed it, in fact I am sure it just flew over your head. The vast majority of people buying condos here, are already RICH or RETIRED, they have already made their money. They don't care about what is going on else where, because they are all ready set for life. That being said, if there was not a world wide slow down and if the government ever gets it act back together we will go back to the happy days again. When you bought it under the premises, "you buy they will come to buy it from you."

But you are assuming that Thailand can survive in a total vacuum ?

Admittedly there are many retirees and rich people in Thailand but I doubt if they have all moved ALL their money

into Thai bank accounts? Some will still be relying one way or another on incomes from USA or other countries

and some may be unlucky enough to suffer further from more bank closures in the future if this bailout

does not work. There is no doubt the USA is in for some very big changes and those changes are bound to

have a substantial effect on the rest of the world. As for the health of Asia, let's see what happens when

Asian exports plummet over the next few months as consumer demand in the world's biggest economy

goes into steep decline !

Please dont tell me you are still assuming that the USA is the worlds biggest economy??

[billaaa777]

And you're buying tiny little View Talay units ?

Yes I am. I make 750,000 per unit off a 2.2 million investment. I buy as many as I can. Thanks for asking, but since you have a better idea of where I should put my money, I am all ears.

[JimmyTheMook]

And you're buying tiny little View Talay units ?

Yes I am. I make 750,000 per unit off a 2.2 million investment. I buy as many as I can. Thanks for asking, but since you have a better idea of where I should put my money, I am all ears.

And according to you they're selling like hotcakes ?

LOL !

Definalty upscale.

Learn about Forex trading if you really want to work 3 hours per day and you can still go slumming with the Walking Street crowd in the evenings.

[midas]

The market is moving more upscale everyday, as the trash like to two above get pushed out. This is a very important point I made above and I think you missed it, in fact I am sure it just flew over your head. The vast majority of people buying condos here, are already RICH or RETIRED, they have already made their money. They don't care about what is going on else where, because they are all ready set for life. That being said, if there was not a world wide slow down and if the government ever gets it act back together we will go back to the happy days again. When you bought it under the premises, "you buy they will come to buy it from you."

But you are assuming that Thailand can survive in a total vacuum ?

Admittedly there are many retirees and rich people in Thailand but I doubt if they have all moved ALL their money

into Thai bank accounts? Some will still be relying one way or another on incomes from USA or other countries

and some may be unlucky enough to suffer further from more bank closures in the future if this bailout

does not work. There is no doubt the USA is in for some very big changes and those changes are bound to

have a substantial effect on the rest of the world. As for the health of Asia, let's see what happens when

Asian exports plummet over the next few months as consumer demand in the world's biggest economy

goes into steep decline !

Please dont tell me you are still assuming that the USA is the worlds biggest economy??

Of course not ! We know that China and India are well on the way..............BUT every successful

buisness relies on it richest customers...........if USA and Europe ( also in recession now ),

please tell me where else in the world are going to keep the engine of " consumersim " going ??

We have South Amercia - NO, Africa - NO - Asia - NO because they are prolific SAVERS not SPENDERS

so I come back to what I said before - things have to change even in Thailand eventually

[donx]

Please dont tell me you are still assuming that the USA is the worlds biggest economy??

I just googled "world's biggest economy" and if you compare the US economy with any other singel nation, then yes the US is still the world's biggest economy. But you could argue, which I am assuming you are, that the European Union has the world's biggest economy. Is this your point?

[fidelio]

And you're buying tiny little View Talay units ?

Yes I am. I make 750,000 per unit off a 2.2 million investment. I buy as many as I can. Thanks for asking, but since you have a better idea of where I should put my money, I am all ears.

Bullshiter of the century

[LennyW]

Please dont tell me you are still assuming that the USA is the worlds biggest economy??

I just googled "world's biggest economy" and if you compare the US economy with any other singel nation, then yes the US is still the world's biggest economy. But you could argue, which I am assuming you are, that the European Union has the world's biggest economy. Is this your point?

I just feel the US has the biggest debt - and about to get worse!

[donx]

Please dont tell me you are still assuming that the USA is the worlds biggest economy??

I just googled "world's biggest economy" and if you compare the US economy with any other singel nation, then yes the US is still the world's biggest economy. But you could argue, which I am assuming you are, that the European Union has the world's biggest economy. Is this your point?

I just feel the US has the biggest debt - and about to get worse!

Just because the US has the biggest debt doesn't mean it is no longer the world's biggest economy. In fact I would argue that I would expect the world's largest economy to have the world's biggest debt. Countries with a small economy can't afford a big debt. Countries with a big ecomony can afford a big debt.