Samak Bows Out

[Plus]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

[animatic]

PM-elect insists he has never talked over the phone with Thaksin

Somchai Wongsawat, Prime Minister-elect, insisted that he has not talked over the phone with Thaksin Shinawatra.

Somchai said that Thaksin has not called him to express congratulations. Normally, he said that he has never talked over the phone with the former premier.

Meanwhile, a party celebrating Somchai as the new premier was held last night at the new Thai leader’s Beverly Hill residence on Chang Watthana road.

The joyous party was well attended by government officials who have had a close relationship with Somchai from the Ministry of Education, as well as private executives.

The beamed Mr. Somchai’s members of the family, including his wife Mrs. Yaowapa, their children-Mr. Yoschanan, Miss Chinnicha, and Miss Chonnicha, also were present at the party.

His two daughters disclosed that they lent a present to their father with love.

- ThaiNews / 2008-09-18

Gotta LOVE that one.

He has never talked to his brother in law of how many decades over the telephone.

Righty O!

Why congratulate someone for what you did for them?

They beamed his family up where?

To the good space ship in another demention?

[sriracha john]

PM-elect insists he has never talked over the phone with Thaksin

Somchai Wongsawat, Prime Minister-elect, insisted that he has not talked over the phone with Thaksin Shinawatra.

Somchai said that Thaksin has not called him to express congratulations. Normally, he said that he has never talked over the phone with the former premier.

Meanwhile, a party celebrating Somchai as the new premier was held last night at the new Thai leader’s Beverly Hill residence on Chang Watthana road.

The joyous party was well attended by government officials who have had a close relationship with Somchai from the Ministry of Education, as well as private executives.

The beamed Mr. Somchai’s members of the family, including his wife Mrs. Yaowapa, their children-Mr. Yoschanan, Miss Chinnicha, and Miss Chonnicha, also were present at the party.

His two daughters disclosed that they lent a present to their father with love.

- ThaiNews / 2008-09-18

Gotta LOVE that one.

He has never talked to his brother in law of how many decades over the telephone.

Righty O!

Why congratulate someone for what you did for them?

They beamed his family up where?

To the good space ship in another demention?

all good stuff... but my favorite was

His two daughters disclosed that they lent a present to their father with love.

They revealed later on at the party that they expect the present back in a week or two, at the most...

[Old Man River]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

Plus, think "new politics" and you will feel better. It is only a matter of time. We need a government that reacts to reality. These guys don't and never will.

[h90]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

Plus, think "new politics" and you will feel better. It is only a matter of time. We need a government that reacts to reality. These guys don't and never will.

Considering that Thaksin government didn't do anything at its last year, than the military didn't do much and now we have 6 month without activity....

Maybe it doesn't matter if there is a government or not.....

[Old Man River]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

Plus, think "new politics" and you will feel better. It is only a matter of time. We need a government that reacts to reality. These guys don't and never will.

Considering that Thaksin government didn't do anything at its last year, than the military didn't do much and now we have 6 month without activity....

Maybe it doesn't matter if there is a government or not.....

I understand your point, but of course it does matter. The question is how are we going to get there so we have a government that is stable and capable? It is obvious that a new system is in order.

[h90]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

Plus, think "new politics" and you will feel better. It is only a matter of time. We need a government that reacts to reality. These guys don't and never will.

Considering that Thaksin government didn't do anything at its last year, than the military didn't do much and now we have 6 month without activity....

Maybe it doesn't matter if there is a government or not.....

I understand your point, but of course it does matter. The question is how are we going to get there so we have a government that is stable and capable? It is obvious that a new system is in order.

you want a lot.....

Chavalits idea was not so bad today.

new constitution with 50% appointed 50 elected. if this government changes the constitution to something PAD agrees and the government can stay in power for 1-1.5 years so they can fill their pockets. Than it would be a fair compromise. Well I know I am dreaming.....

[Old Man River]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

Plus, think "new politics" and you will feel better. It is only a matter of time. We need a government that reacts to reality. These guys don't and never will.

Considering that Thaksin government didn't do anything at its last year, than the military didn't do much and now we have 6 month without activity....

Maybe it doesn't matter if there is a government or not.....

I understand your point, but of course it does matter. The question is how are we going to get there so we have a government that is stable and capable? It is obvious that a new system is in order.

you want a lot.....

Chavalits idea was not so bad today.

new constitution with 50% appointed 50 elected. if this government changes the constitution to something PAD agrees and the government can stay in power for 1-1.5 years so they can fill their pockets. Than it would be a fair compromise. Well I know I am dreaming.....

Unfortunately, there is some guy named Thaksin that will get in the way because he has USD 2.3 billion at risk. This is understandable, hence Somchai won't comply, but it will get done anyway, some way, some how.

[Los78]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

Plus, think "new politics" and you will feel better. It is only a matter of time. We need a government that reacts to reality. These guys don't and never will.

Considering that Thaksin government didn't do anything at its last year, than the military didn't do much and now we have 6 month without activity....

Maybe it doesn't matter if there is a government or not.....

I understand your point, but of course it does matter. The question is how are we going to get there so we have a government that is stable and capable? It is obvious that a new system is in order.

you want a lot.....

Chavalits idea was not so bad today.

new constitution with 50% appointed 50 elected. if this government changes the constitution to something PAD agrees and the government can stay in power for 1-1.5 years so they can fill their pockets. Than it would be a fair compromise. Well I know I am dreaming.....

50% PAD friends and currupt Elite and 50% people vote.

What are you crazy? Appointed government does not work its just dictatorship. How can you have someone's voting right be half.

[h90]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

Plus, think "new politics" and you will feel better. It is only a matter of time. We need a government that reacts to reality. These guys don't and never will.

Considering that Thaksin government didn't do anything at its last year, than the military didn't do much and now we have 6 month without activity....

Maybe it doesn't matter if there is a government or not.....

I understand your point, but of course it does matter. The question is how are we going to get there so we have a government that is stable and capable? It is obvious that a new system is in order.

you want a lot.....

Chavalits idea was not so bad today.

new constitution with 50% appointed 50 elected. if this government changes the constitution to something PAD agrees and the government can stay in power for 1-1.5 years so they can fill their pockets. Than it would be a fair compromise. Well I know I am dreaming.....

50% PAD friends and currupt Elite and 50% people vote.

What are you crazy? Appointed government does not work its just dictatorship. How can you have someone's voting right be half.

50 % appointed does not mean that they are not elected another way. labor unions and farmer representative are not Elite. Now the parliament is full with corrupt Elite, why not trying a different system? Or does it look like the government cares for the voter and country?

[Los78]

There's a damning list of problems facing this country at the moment - the raging insurgency in the South, Hun Sen threatening to take Thailand to UN Security Council and strip it of its Asean chair, the worsening global economy that would hit Thai exports very hard, world's financial meltdown, no sign of government investment in upgrading country's infrastructure and so on.

And what have we got for the government? A bunch of clowns with absolutely no interest in addressing any of those issues at all, they are not even like ostriches burying their heads in the sand - the ostriches at least aware of the danger. But not these guys - these guys are actually in celebration mode.

>>>>

I can't understand people who keep on harping about "rural masses" awakening and exercising their power.

What has this people power government has ever done for the poor? What pro-poor policies does it have? Does it have any policies at all? Does it have any vision for the country? Any goals? Does it have any stratagies to move towards those goals?

You can't call subsidizing gasoline for urban drivers a "vision" or even a policy, at least they should subsidize diesel if they care about farmers so much. Instead they offered free buses to Bangkokians.

Where are the people who think this government represents the poor? Raise your hands, show at least something to give PPP credit for. Something other than "they got a call from London, now everything will be ok".

Plus, think "new politics" and you will feel better. It is only a matter of time. We need a government that reacts to reality. These guys don't and never will.

Considering that Thaksin government didn't do anything at its last year, than the military didn't do much and now we have 6 month without activity....

Maybe it doesn't matter if there is a government or not.....

I understand your point, but of course it does matter. The question is how are we going to get there so we have a government that is stable and capable? It is obvious that a new system is in order.

you want a lot.....

Chavalits idea was not so bad today.

new constitution with 50% appointed 50 elected. if this government changes the constitution to something PAD agrees and the government can stay in power for 1-1.5 years so they can fill their pockets. Than it would be a fair compromise. Well I know I am dreaming.....

50% PAD friends and currupt Elite and 50% people vote.

What are you crazy? Appointed government does not work its just dictatorship. How can you have someone's voting right be half.

50 % appointed does not mean that they are not elected another way. labor unions and farmer representative are not Elite. Now the parliament is full with corrupt Elite, why not trying a different system? Or does it look like the government cares for the voter and country?

Who does the appointing??? THe military and PAD... hahaha yes really fair. NOT! Appointed systems only help their friends. Who about the appointed can be made by the party who gets the majority? So PPP should do the appointing since they got the most votes. That is fair then. Appointed officials just dosent work no matter how you look at it.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Los78

[blaze]

50 % appointed does not mean that they are not elected another way.

Uh- please explain that- and while doing so- explain who will make the final appointments- and who appoints the appointment 'committee'? ANd THEN explain how you propose to ensure that the appointment committe is not selecting sector reps according to, at best, compatible policy allignment- and at worst- tea money.

Since you seem to be implying that there will be a role for elections at some level- what will ensure that these elections are any freer than the current ones- freer of vote buying, bullying and indoctrination.

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply have the privy council appoint a council of people it deems as 'good'- and forget all this 'election' stuff entirely?- that council will install other 'good' people to represent the various sectors. They needn't be from that sector- simply 'represent' its best interests. (Kind of like the appointed Minister of Indian Affairs in Canada always represents the best interests of the Native population. )

Edited September 18, 2008 by blaze

[h90]

50 % appointed does not mean that they are not elected another way.

Uh- please explain that- and while doing so- explain who will make the final appointments- and who appoints the appointment 'committee'? ANd THEN explain how you propose to ensure that the appointment committe is not selecting sector reps according to, at best, compatible policy allignment- and at worst- tea money.

Since you seem to be implying that there will be a role for elections at some level- what will ensure that these elections are any freer than the current ones- freer of vote buying, bullying and indoctrination.

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply have the privy council appoint a council of people it deems as 'good'- and forget all this 'election' stuff entirely?- that council will install other 'good' people to represent the various sectors. They needn't be from that sector- simply 'represent' its best interests. (Kind of like the appointed Minister of Indian Affairs in Canada always represents the best interests of the Native population. )

not from PAD, just my idea how it would make sense:

The labour unions have elections inside, the academics have elections inside etc etc and they either elect one. Or out of the elected top 3 or so one will be appointed.

ideal would be, if they can be voted out by the rules of their members. Say that elected/appointed labor union guy makes something bad, the labor union can elect someone different even there is no general election at the moment.

that would be my idea on how it may work.

I don't know if it is less corrupt, maybe, maybe not. I am not a big fan of this system, I am sure there are better systems.

Simply appoint from the privy council would for sure bring a better government than we have now, but shifting the responsibilities upwards is very dangerous. (don't want to explain it for obvious reasons).

In my opinion another system would work better:

Make 4 (or maybe 5 or 6) areas with a governor and parties which get part of the tax of their area and decide some things themself.

On general elections forget about any areas...have party lists. with say 4 % you are in the parliament and than you get a share of people up to the percentage.

With this MPs with good position in the list are not interested in vote buying as they are anyhow in. Bad positions who have no chance at all are not interested in vote buying as well.

Efficient vote buying will be much more expensive.

It makes a difference if an area vote 51 % or 60 or 80 % for one party.

But that system is more difficult to explain on a demonstration.

[blaze]

50 % appointed does not mean that they are not elected another way.

Uh- please explain that- and while doing so- explain who will make the final appointments- and who appoints the appointment 'committee'? ANd THEN explain how you propose to ensure that the appointment committe is not selecting sector reps according to, at best, compatible policy allignment- and at worst- tea money.

Since you seem to be implying that there will be a role for elections at some level- what will ensure that these elections are any freer than the current ones- freer of vote buying, bullying and indoctrination.

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply have the privy council appoint a council of people it deems as 'good'- and forget all this 'election' stuff entirely?- that council will install other 'good' people to represent the various sectors. They needn't be from that sector- simply 'represent' its best interests. (Kind of like the appointed Minister of Indian Affairs in Canada always represents the best interests of the Native population. )

not from PAD, just my idea how it would make sense:

The labour unions have elections inside, the academics have elections inside etc etc and they either elect one. Or out of the elected top 3 or so one will be appointed.

ideal would be, if they can be voted out by the rules of their members. Say that elected/appointed labor union guy makes something bad, the labor union can elect someone different even there is no general election at the moment.

that would be my idea on how it may work.

I don't know if it is less corrupt, maybe, maybe not. I am not a big fan of this system, I am sure there are better systems.

Simply appoint from the privy council would for sure bring a better government than we have now, but shifting the responsibilities upwards is very dangerous. (don't want to explain it for obvious reasons).

In my opinion another system would work better:

Make 4 (or maybe 5 or 6) areas with a governor and parties which get part of the tax of their area and decide some things themself.

On general elections forget about any areas...have party lists. with say 4 % you are in the parliament and than you get a share of people up to the percentage.

With this MPs with good position in the list are not interested in vote buying as they are anyhow in. Bad positions who have no chance at all are not interested in vote buying as well.

Efficient vote buying will be much more expensive.

It makes a difference if an area vote 51 % or 60 or 80 % for one party.

But that system is more difficult to explain on a demonstration.

We are discussing the proposals as put forth by the PAD- and they distinctly say appointed.

Yes- it's possible that a trio of candidates could be submitted by a certain sector- but can't you see the issue re who does the appointing?

If the appointment committee is dead set against wage increases for Sector FOMDC (Female Optometrists of the Muslim Faith with Disabled Children')- and two of the sector 'candidates' want wage increases- and one doesn't- which one do you think will be 'appointed'? Would that appointee really 'represent' her consituency? (sectror)

I was being totally facetious about the Privy Council doing the appointments by the way. Though this was the idea that was floating around by some during the Sarayuth/Sonthi year.

[h90]

50 % appointed does not mean that they are not elected another way.

Uh- please explain that- and while doing so- explain who will make the final appointments- and who appoints the appointment 'committee'? ANd THEN explain how you propose to ensure that the appointment committe is not selecting sector reps according to, at best, compatible policy allignment- and at worst- tea money.

Since you seem to be implying that there will be a role for elections at some level- what will ensure that these elections are any freer than the current ones- freer of vote buying, bullying and indoctrination.

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply have the privy council appoint a council of people it deems as 'good'- and forget all this 'election' stuff entirely?- that council will install other 'good' people to represent the various sectors. They needn't be from that sector- simply 'represent' its best interests. (Kind of like the appointed Minister of Indian Affairs in Canada always represents the best interests of the Native population. )

not from PAD, just my idea how it would make sense:

The labour unions have elections inside, the academics have elections inside etc etc and they either elect one. Or out of the elected top 3 or so one will be appointed.

ideal would be, if they can be voted out by the rules of their members. Say that elected/appointed labor union guy makes something bad, the labor union can elect someone different even there is no general election at the moment.

that would be my idea on how it may work.

I don't know if it is less corrupt, maybe, maybe not. I am not a big fan of this system, I am sure there are better systems.

Simply appoint from the privy council would for sure bring a better government than we have now, but shifting the responsibilities upwards is very dangerous. (don't want to explain it for obvious reasons).

In my opinion another system would work better:

Make 4 (or maybe 5 or 6) areas with a governor and parties which get part of the tax of their area and decide some things themself.

On general elections forget about any areas...have party lists. with say 4 % you are in the parliament and than you get a share of people up to the percentage.

With this MPs with good position in the list are not interested in vote buying as they are anyhow in. Bad positions who have no chance at all are not interested in vote buying as well.

Efficient vote buying will be much more expensive.

It makes a difference if an area vote 51 % or 60 or 80 % for one party.

But that system is more difficult to explain on a demonstration.

We are discussing the proposals as put forth by the PAD- and they distinctly say appointed.

Yes- it's possible that a trio of candidates could be submitted by a certain sector- but can't you see the issue re who does the appointing?

If the appointment committee is dead set against wage increases for Sector FOMDC (Female Optometrists of the Muslim Faith with Disabled Children')- and two of the sector 'candidates' want wage increases- and one doesn't- which one do you think will be 'appointed'? Would that appointee really 'represent' her consituency? (sectror)

I was being totally facetious about the Privy Council doing the appointments by the way. Though this was the idea that was floating around by some during the Sarayuth/Sonthi year.

Today Somchai was appointed as PM by HM the King. Appointed can mean many things.

In my opinion such a system can only work if there is an election within the sectors. For me thinkable would be that from the 3 who got most votes the Privy Council appoints the candidate with the most votes but has the possibility (which they should not use) to take the second or third.

That might work very well as long as the person/group who appoints is honest. If they are corrupt that system will have the same problem.

There might be a few checks more, specially if the sector can cancel the candidate at every time.

Also that system is in my opinion to difficult

[Plus]

What's it matter who does the appointing? There'd be three candidates from a sector, what's the worst that can happen? You still get a sector representative. It can't be worse than the current MPs anyway.

I expect the appointing will be done in a short time and with hundreds of candidates from very diverse fields - there will be no time to fix the results on scale that would matter.

The main point is to bring interest groups out in the open, no monkey business with wives and cousins sitting in for someone who in turn is working for god knows who else.

Also interest groups and their reps would have national agenda while current local MPs could care less about big politics, they just need funds back in their villages, they are simply out of place here in Bangkok.

Also setting a system with multiple sectors selecting their reps would shift current power distribution system from being person based to rule based. Right now it's still the name that matters, not the rules, rules are meaningless. Politician or MP status is determined by their place in a pyramid of personal relationships, a word of mouth means everything, their real, documented accomplishments mean nothing. That's how we got half the parlament filled with virtual nobodies.

[h90]

What's it matter who does the appointing? There'd be three candidates from a sector, what's the worst that can happen? You still get a sector representative. It can't be worse than the current MPs anyway.

I expect the appointing will be done in a short time and with hundreds of candidates from very diverse fields - there will be no time to fix the results on scale that would matter.

The main point is to bring interest groups out in the open, no monkey business with wives and cousins sitting in for someone who in turn is working for god knows who else.

Also interest groups and their reps would have national agenda while current local MPs could care less about big politics, they just need funds back in their villages, they are simply out of place here in Bangkok.

Also setting a system with multiple sectors selecting their reps would shift current power distribution system from being person based to rule based. Right now it's still the name that matters, not the rules, rules are meaningless. Politician or MP status is determined by their place in a pyramid of personal relationships, a word of mouth means everything, their real, documented accomplishments mean nothing. That's how we got half the parlament filled with virtual nobodies.

Actually no system can bring worse results than now.....

But still I have doubts on that appointing system, but I am sure it will work better than now.

[permanent_disorder]

What's it matter who does the appointing? There'd be three candidates from a sector, what's the worst that can happen? You still get a sector representative. It can't be worse than the current MPs anyway.

I expect the appointing will be done in a short time and with hundreds of candidates from very diverse fields - there will be no time to fix the results on scale that would matter.

The main point is to bring interest groups out in the open, no monkey business with wives and cousins sitting in for someone who in turn is working for god knows who else.

Also interest groups and their reps would have national agenda while current local MPs could care less about big politics, they just need funds back in their villages, they are simply out of place here in Bangkok.

Also setting a system with multiple sectors selecting their reps would shift current power distribution system from being person based to rule based. Right now it's still the name that matters, not the rules, rules are meaningless. Politician or MP status is determined by their place in a pyramid of personal relationships, a word of mouth means everything, their real, documented accomplishments mean nothing. That's how we got half the parlament filled with virtual nobodies.

Actually no system can bring worse results than now.....

But still I have doubts on that appointing system, but I am sure it will work better than now.

Sondhi & 17 do-gooders are lunatics, period. you can go home now.

[AlKing]

Samak is now jobless. Do you think he will return as a full time cook?

[bulmercke]

2008 - the Thai electorate votes in - one totally and self-serving government after another -

No wonder the PAD are exasperated and frustrated by this.

It's time for change.

The PAD will prevail.

[Ricardo]

Samak is now jobless. Do you think he will return as a full time cook?

The som-tam lady told me he is considering offers to host a TV programme, where he interviews people, and gains points for every minute he doesn't swear, insult them, enquire about their sex-lives or tell them they have no right to answer his questions. But I told her that this particular series had been running for at least the past 8 months.

[Plus]

For a leader of a largest party in the government coalition he is very quiet andno one is suprised.

Of course he's only a paper leader and people accept this situation as entirely normal and "democratic". There's no outrage when Yongyudh flies to London for a Cabinet approval and Pua Paendin consults with their own figitive. Instead of the outrage we only get more of "the masses have been awakened, this government represents the people, it's the people rising against the old feudal order, it's the triumph of people's power" idiocy.

Snap out of it for a second - the system is beyond salvation and needs to be reformed, one way or another.

[Los78]

For a leader of a largest party in the government coalition he is very quiet andno one is suprised.

Of course he's only a paper leader and people accept this situation as entirely normal and "democratic". There's no outrage when Yongyudh flies to London for a Cabinet approval and Pua Paendin consults with their own figitive. Instead of the outrage we only get more of "the masses have been awakened, this government represents the people, it's the people rising against the old feudal order, it's the triumph of people's power" idiocy.

Snap out of it for a second - the system is beyond salvation and needs to be reformed, one way or another.

Yes I agree with you the charter should be changed so Thailand is not an embarresment any longer. A more democratic charter would be good for the country. In relation to New Politics. Its a step in the dark ages and anyone who supports such a system should move to Burma and North Korea.

[hammered]

For a leader of a largest party in the government coalition he is very quiet andno one is suprised.

Of course he's only a paper leader and people accept this situation as entirely normal and "democratic". There's no outrage when Yongyudh flies to London for a Cabinet approval and Pua Paendin consults with their own figitive. Instead of the outrage we only get more of "the masses have been awakened, this government represents the people, it's the people rising against the old feudal order, it's the triumph of people's power" idiocy.

Snap out of it for a second - the system is beyond salvation and needs to be reformed, one way or another.

This is a meme that has been succesfully created and is being quite succesfully pushed. It could create the conditions for a systemic change. The PAD are in an interesting position as they propose the change and their fight with the PPP is the very thing that is creating the conditions for the change along of course with a general boredom with money politcs and indeed politicans in general. Talk/sympathy/support for the broad idea of new politics (not necessarily 30-70 exactly but definitely anti money-politics)) now extends well beyond the PAD and their supporters/sympathisers. Opinions of politicians in general are also very low these days. PPP must be very careful how it plays its cards in these circumstances although if todays newspaper report that they are considering inviting Chavalit who just endorsed new politcs into their government as a DPM are true then maybe they arent that opposed!

[animatic]

From Wiki RED everytime it sounds suspiciously like Thaksin's last regime

Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a concept used to describe political systems

where a state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private life.

The term is usually applied to Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Shōwa Japan or communist states,

such as the Stalinist-USSR, Democratic Kampuchea, Vietnam, Mao-era and modern China and North Korea.

Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of

an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media,

(See NBT)

a single party that controls the state, (TRT)

personality cults, (Dr.T.)

central state-controlled economy, (Dr T. Samak and TRTR/PPP, rice controls etc.)

regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism,

(Thaksin big time, billion baht suits, news papers stiffled economically Samak tried too)

the use of mass surveillance,

(are WE being watched now, regularly there are police general's announcements of

new survelance schemes even organized paid snitchs to immigration police....)

and widespread use of terror tactics.

( DAAD UDD, breaking up Dem. rallies etc)

See basically you can tune EITHER side in,

but I find more DIRECTLY involving Thaksin's team greed,

vs PAD which only suggest options some FEAR MIGHT BE bad.

Bigg bleedin difference.

Edited September 21, 2008 by animatic

[Samuian]

Democracy, Dictatorship, Communism, undemocratic, democratic, "western democracy", "asian values", "thai'ish"...well name the entire sequence, does that change anything on the fact that there are certain ethics, especially regarding people in higher places, people who have been chosen to lead, that there are limits, laws, no' no's, that there is a certain line which one doesn't step on or over?

Adults should know, Toddlers will learn... but this concerns adulthood, if I am adult enough to decide to go myself in a temple, and follow simple rules - as taking of the shoes and not being frivolous or making fun of the monks - shouldn't have the same adult enough understanding of what is right and what is wrong?

How can I follow on one hand quite strict rules of conduct and on the other hand condone "hand outs" and wrongdoings by my "superiors", look on how the police takes bribes, and, and, and.... even give my vote, raise my hand for someone who paid me for this?

How can I do this if the same time I believe in the 'words of the enlightened one- the Buddha"?

I learned in prep-school , if it wasn't in kinder garden already, that certain tings are a no no, that taking things belonging to others is stealing, never to take cookies or chocolates from strangers, over the years I learned more and more and understood that things work best if I stick to these norms, laws, very much so to this "code of conduct", to be able to look into my face in the mirror and smile ...and be proud of my self, standing up for the good, the right, against crime, against wrong, against lies.... it does make me feel good, very good... somewhat clean.

There is this whining going on that democracy in this country is like a toddler, an infant, just born... gosh, its som 76 years, if one uses a magnifying lens ok. say 20 years, but hey, nothing van be accomplished in this time?

And "we are as we are"... is this the excuse the citizen of this country want to use for all things which are simply wrong, will it remain the next 2000 years that "they don't understand" ....its always "them", there is hardly ever anyone willing or able to take the responsability.

Now, exactly this the PAD is on the street for - a change - NOW or NEVER!

Change for the sake oft his country, of it's new born child with the name "democracy", which also means same RIGHTS for ALL! Same LAWS do apply for ALL!

And a Justice system which is doing Justice to itself, a Police force which ENFORCES the Law and a government which governs and helps to educate, to build a country not for it's own sake and pockets, but for the sake and welfare of the very citizens which endowed them with exactly this power!

There is simply NO excuse for wrong, for corruption, for nepotism, for cronyism, favoritism, there simply isn't - doesn't matter which words, which titles, which kind of backstabbing and badmouthing is used for trying to put the blame on some people who are desperate to make the ill and bad vanish, to force a government to follow the rules as everybody else and to be proud of their country again!

There simply isn't such a thing like an "HONEST LIE"!

A lie remains ALWAYS a lie, as wrong is wrong, bad is bad and bend is bend, not-"half straight"!

Edited September 21, 2008 by Samuian

[animatic]

Hear hear

There is no counter response to this that doesn't support the kleptocracy in power.

But it will be duely ignored and amazing bile filled wailing about PAD will continue

from the Usual Suspects.

Because conceptual democracy ineffectual as it is in this current practice

is deemed better than discussing REAL WORLD SOLUTIONS to real world problems.

How about honesty in government because SOME ONE out side

is calling them for fouls to the system...

But the Usual Suspects want to shoot the messenger.

For shame on your biased ethos of corruption being OK

because an election was held.

Ethics trumps the voting booth.

Many corrupt pols world wide leave office early,

SHAMED out by just such watchdogs as PAD,

and an unmuzzled free press.

Many academics and free people postulate variations on existing systems

without being labeled scum and Nazis and 'threats to democracy' and the poor.

It is not sedition or treason to stand up against unbridled corruption,

and expound on talking points for potential solutions.

If the government of the moment stopped filling it's personal pockets

imagine what would be available to help the poor.

What if they mostly acted in good faith with their constituents?

Edited September 21, 2008 by animatic

[AlKing]

Samak is now jobless. Do you think he will return as a full time cook?

The som-tam lady told me he is considering offers to host a TV programme, where he interviews people, and gains points for every minute he doesn't swear, insult them, enquire about their sex-lives or tell them they have no right to answer his questions. But I told her that this particular series had been running for at least the past 8 months.

8 months only. More like he has been doing it for the last 28 years.

[Guest Reimar]

TOC

Appeals Court Upholds Guilty Verdict against Former PM Samak for Defamation

UPDATE : 25 September 2008

The Appeals Court upholds a lower court’s two-year jail term and a guilty verdict in a defamation case against former PM Samak Sundaravej and Dusit Siriwan. The defence is expected to file for another appeal with the Supreme Court within 30 days.

The Appeals Court this morning ruled that the counter argument filed by defendant Samak Sundaravej and Dusit Siriwan were groundless. It decided to uphold the guilty verdict and the jail term handed down by a lower Bangkok Criminal Court.

Former PM Samak Sundaravej and Dusit Siriwan were found guilty for defamation by the Southern Bangkok Criminal Court. The court sentenced Samak and Dusit to six months' imprisonment each for all of the four libellous remarks and ordered them to apologize publicly by publishing the summary verdict in national newspapers for three consecutive days.

The court refused to grant leniency in its sentencing, in view of the defendants' repeated offences for libel.

In its verdict, the Appeals Court stated that the two defendants are leading figures with political experience who knew that their opinions could have significant influence over the public’s opinion, yet they have repeatedly aired their malicious views via television. The court added that the defendants failed to reform themselves although the judiciary has granted a number of opportunities for them to do so.

Samak and Dusit implied that former Deputy Bangkok Governor Samart Ratchapolasit was involved in ten shady bidding projects in 2006 during a television program they hosted together. The Southern Bangkok Criminal Court had noted in its ruling that the defendants admitted that their bribery allegation against Samart was based on other news reports and that the two defendants had not verified the information before airing it.

In his defence, Samart, the plaintiff, had provided banking and purchase records to rebut the defendants' allegation that contractors paid for a brand new luxury sedan as a bribe.

The Appeals Court however granted bail to both Samak and Dusit. Each of them submitted 200,000 baht worth of assets as collateral.

The defendants are expected to file for another appeal with the Supreme Court within the next 30 days.

Samart admitted that he’s been approached by the defendants to settle the case out of court. But he refused to enter into any negotiation and insists he would file a civil suit, demanding 100 million baht in compensation following the completion of the appellate process.

[Artisi]

Can you just imagine piggy in a prison cell - that would be sweet justice indeed and well deserved - bring it on ASAP.