Boyfriends Concept Of ... Time

[onni4me]

I am lucky guy by all measure to find a good genuine Thai guy. But...er... there are roses in the garden and they have spikes. Or snakes lurking under shrubbery or whatever BS one might say.

The one and only thing that hasn't been improved is my bf's total lack of time. In that European sense that to be on time is polite and if there is some change you should inform all parties. That just doesn't happen. To do something quickly could be now or three hours or tomorrow...next week...keep guessing. I've heard some other people comment on this subject of total lack of timetables.

When asked, Thais reply that head-ache sentence 'mai pen rai'. Of course it matters when you are waiting...!!! GRRRR!!! I've met Thais that DO keep schedule and try to be on time. Somehow it doesn't seem to be a virtue of many. They may tell you that they come to fix your toilet tomorrow morning 8 sharp and you might get up just to notice there is nobody at 9, nobody at 11 or actually nobody before the next day, next week ... or so ...

Complaining doesn't seem to make any change. Maybe for a while but not permanently. They just don't seem to get it. They engage in a trivial conversation with someone and forget totally about what were they supposed to accomplish by that evening.

I am flexible and so on but unforgiving when it comes to keeping appointments and so on. I hope I never learn to 'be Thai' in this matter also.

[PeaceBlondie]

I use the English phrase "for sure" or "serious" when I expect punctuality. To those who are often tardy, I do not show up on time. I make no excuse for being late. I lived in Mexico, likewise. Not everything has to be punctual. But if I wait too long, I leave. I just run away. When they phone me, I say I left. If I was going to give them a ride or have a date, I just cancel.

[donshows]

I've lived in Thailand for over 5 years and I have the most wonderful boyfriend that you could ever ask for....BUT...he is late....often....no matter what I say...he is late. Not all of the time but I can't tell you how long I've had to wait for him. So I also plan this into my day and I've also arrived LATE for him...and he doesn't care....it's just the Thai way. If you can't stand the heat...then get out of the kitchen! Sorry but it's their custom and their country...we are guest here and we need to fit in. So find a way to adjust and stop worrying about it. Take care...

[onni4me]

....it's just the Thai way. If you can't stand the heat...then get out of the kitchen! Sorry but it's their custom and their country...we are guest here and we need to fit in. So find a way to adjust and stop worrying about it.

What irritates me here is that there are reasons why things should be accomplished on schedule. Like renovating your house...how long you would watch the delay? Or the doctor being late for work? Or your favorite shop closed because 'I just couldn't make it"?

Also I don't think that in an equal relationship it's healthy to allow someone do whatever he pleases on the excuse "it's the Thai way".

And I do get irritated when the only choice would be leaving the 'kitchen'. Is it that Thailand is an island of status quo and the ways of World just don't apply here at all? As I see there is a lot of foreign influence. Do we just pick what we want and the other things are against our 'culture'?

[endure]

Is it that Thailand is an island of status quo and the ways of World just don't apply here at all? As I see there is a lot of foreign influence.

No it's the island of Thailand where time is treated differently to the way it is in the west. You're not going to change it - you might as well get used to it.

Do we just pick what we want and the other things are against our 'culture'?

Precisely.

[Pawpcorn]

I think the above advice is excellent on all points.

I teach English to kids and adults of ALL ages, and it's not uncommon at ALL for a student to show up 20 minutes or a half hour late... for a 2 hour private session or class!

I have asked them... "What happened, bad traffic? and get the response, "No, eat...", etc.

I usually don't even bother asking anymore.

I WILL point out (and I think most long-term farangs will back me on this) that most Thais, as they are raised, are really babied and coddled throughout their entire upbringing... and this results in personalities that are often very childlike in nature.

Often, when we are trying to figure out the odd behavior of our boyfriend, for example, if you look at his behavior as though you were looking at an adult child, well, the pieces fall into place, and it all starts to make sense,

Now... before you flame me on this, NOTE! That I actually adore this side of Thai culture, and have learned to relax with it totally, and actually enjoy being a big kid myself, in ALL of these situations... and my blood pressure stays at a nice low, I smile and laugh, and find too, that I am really enjoying my life here, totally.

(I REALLY wanted to talk about this when the Airline steward was complaining about HIS boyfriend, and his food communications problem, but I debated over mentioning this for DAYS, figuring I'd get slammed, if people misunderstood my perspective, and thought I was slamming Thais... which I DEFINATELY AM NOT, here.)

We're on THEIR turf here, and I really think it's up to us to try and understand the culture, by NOT looking at things through the lens of our patiot glasses.

I think we can relax, learn a NEW lifestyle, and live out our lives, in near nirvana.

Good Luck!

Pawpcorn

[flightcrew1]

My rule is that I don't wait more than 20 minutes for anyone unless I receive a phone call saying they are on the way shortly. If after 20 minutes no call or no friend, I go about my own business or have even gone home. I've also learned to make a joke about it and always say to friends western time not Thai time. It usually gets a laugh and they are on time. When meeting friends I normally say meet me at Paragon or some shopping mall where there is a book shop that I can peruse the magazines and books so I don't feel so annoyed if they are late. The bf is generally on time but if running late he will call so no problems there.

I don't agree with some of the replies that this is Thailand and we just have to get used to it. I know that Thai's can be on time, but, and an example being that when I have a flight I'm always amazed at how close the Thai crew cut it. If there is a check in time of 5am, most of the International crew (farang, Chinese, etc.) are there between 430 and 445 but the Thai crew are rushing into the crew room at 458. Late once you get a warning, twice you get written up, three times suspended for one month. No excuses accepted like "traffic na" as we are all BKK based and in the same situation.

I see the same in the morning on the Skytrain if going to the gym during the week. Getting off the train at 755, 825, or 855 is always a laugh as it is the only time I see Thai in a hurry as they have to be in their offices by 8, 830 or 9a and they rush down the stairs and out of the station to be at their desks on time.

Now I know both examples are stereotypes, but just mentioning what I experience.

[Carib]

Thailand is not the only place when it comes to being late, lots and lots of other countries, even in the `western world` have the same time "problem"

Try Italy, or South america or Africa, or the Caribbean area.

[onni4me]

I guessed that these 2 comments about Thai ways and culture pop up like ads on some sites.

However I haven't really seen good solid answers to these couple of claims:

I AM A CHILD (Thai person? Culture orientated and bound creature?) meaning what? I don't need to change, I don't need to adjust, I don't need to question anything I do?

I AM AN ADULT (westerner? farang?) meaning what? I am supposed to carry all the burden in a relationship? I am responsible keeping schedule but not my other half?

RELATIONSHIP meaning what? Two individuals that live actually separate lives? That just seem to be equal since there is no equality in relationship that both don't carry their responsibilities.

I am happy for those who claim that they are happy. Happy go lucky, whatever. I am happy as far it goes but I also want a LTR that carries through differences and mishaps. That both parties take care, take responsibility.

I strongly believe in building a relationship, giving in sometimes, negotiating. When it comes to being besotted by love I must say that the day comes that it is not that rosy anymore. And then the differences hit you and make you ponder. That's what I am aiming at. Letting it float to any direction is not a good idea in my mind. With all respect.

[Scott]

Not all Thais are tardy. My boyfriend is freakishly punctual. I am like that as well--but I don't expect it of others. One of my best friends, a farang, is absolutely always late. Some of these are individual differences.

People living in tropical areas tend to be a little more laid back with time.

[PeaceBlondie]

Do you, like Billy Joel joked about, ride your motorcycle in the rain? Or wait until the sky clears up? Thailand, like Latin American countries, had very few wrist watches until recently, and their lifestyle is based on centuries of non-punctuality. Like I said, if they miss my deadline, I make other plans. Twice lately, I had to run home because my bf locked himself out of the house whilst I was at the pool. I take my time going home.

But I must say we are far more than guests here. We live here. This is our home. Some of us are highly respected ajarns. Some of us queens control the purse strings. We are in charge of ourselves. It is up to you, Mr. Farang.

[Ijustwannateach]

Though it is possible to say there is truth in stereotypes, Thais are still individuals. Many of them are routinely punctual. It's partly about how they were raised and what kind of schools, communities, etc., they grew up in.

PB's right- it's up to you. If the issue is quite important to you, it may eventually cause enough friction in your relationship to make trouble. In that case, you need to communicate about it, recognising that he may consider himself as "correct" in his frame of time reference as you do in yours. If no compromises are possible, you may need to seek a different type of relationship. Otherwise, if it's not so important and you don't let it inconvenience you- (you can do as PB does; just don't wait for people and if they lose by that they'll learn- or not)- then maybe there's no need for either of you to change.

"S"

[peekint]

I'm having an existential crisis regarding the whole 'cultural' thing.

Although my leftist leanings tell me that I should be using cultural filters to assist in my social interactions, my gut sense is that, with anyone close to me, it's a bunch of hooey.

I guess it's sort of like the sperm in the semen (moderator, will you cut that? it's really a quite valid analogy). If you look at where the general drift of the sperm is, sure as shootin', it's toward the egg. If it wasn't, they'd be no babies born. However, if you get out the monocular you use to look at the tasty parts when perusing your porn magazine, you'll zoom in and see that each individual waggy-tailed fellah is merrily going his own way, regardless of where the egg is.

To me, that general 'drift' is the cultural part, and the close-up view is the way to deal with individual interactions.

When I'm setting up a party, an event, a seminar, or any sort of doo-dad that will involve Thai people, I keep the general drift in mind; those things that, culturally, are best to avoid or most likely to be successful.

But in my individual interactions with Thai people, or anyone else, the "cultural awareness" has to work both ways. The "cultural programming" has to be modified by both in order to have a real relationship.

If, in general, Thai folks find punctuality not so important (and, I might add, I haven't found that to be any more or less so than it was when I lived in China, Hong Kong, France, or San Francisco), I would expect that with a particular individual this cultural drift shouldn't be so programmed, like the saliva of a dog, that it can't be negotiated, discussed, modified, or accommodated.

Hey, if your BF ticks you off by always being late, be ticked off. You say he doesn't CARE that you're ticked off? Hmmm. Any other of your feelings he doesn't CARE about? Are you being unreasonable in your time expectations? "You're 30 seconds late! Bend over and drop 'em for 30 licks!" might be a bit excessive. Do you often find yourself needing a shave after waiting for him to show up? Then there's definitely a bit of excess on the other side.

Relationships are about accommodation. you should be able to accommodate his tardiness when it's not impolite; he should be able to accommodate your wrath when his tardiness IS impolite.

Or ask yourself ... "Maybe this relationship is a bit one-sided?" Don't decide just on the one issue. Put this issue to the side and start asking yourself what OTHER things he doesn't really care about when they are important to you (and you've expressed their importance). You might find a pattern. In which case, you might want to be prepared for him to be very very late one day. So late, that you'll have time to go shopping for a new BF.

Edited September 15, 2008 by peekint

[flightcrew1]

Observation last night!

Was attending the Opera with BF at Thailand Cultural Center. Show scheduled to start at 730p. Opera/classical concerts always start exactly on time. As I know traffic is always bad heading that way we never drive but take the MRT. We arrived at 7p - had a glass of wine and went inside the hall. The first thing I noticed (and I've observed this numerous times at concerts and such), was that the audience was mostly farang. I laughed to myself as I knew what to expect. 730p came the doors, King's song came on and then the concert started. No one is allowed in during the performance and the first act was a good 45 minutes. This is standard around the world and at 3000 baht a ticket I'm sure glad of it as you don't want people in and out while your enjoying the performance. Many seats around me were empty.

First act finished and lo and behold - the other 40pct of the audience came in and they were mostly Thai. The farang who did come in were with Thai. Some may have arrived just 5 or 10 minutes late but they were not allowed in as the doors closed.

Part of what causes this is the insistance to drive because they own a car and that they would never consider taking the MRT or BTS. Most of the farang who live here do take the MRT to TCC and not even a taxi as we know the traffic is just horrible.

Just another observation about time.

[Navalator]

Why oh why do Westerners move to Thailand and then proceed to complain about the Thais and the Thai culture? If it is so unbearable living here then get the hel_l back to wherever you came from. I am reminded about the overweight farang woman in Chiang Mai who wrote to Post Bag complaining about the beautiful slim Thai women and griping that there were no clothes to be found in Thailand to fit her obese frame. Unfortunately Thailand seems to attract the worst types that the West has to offer. The other night, in Boyztown, Pattaya, an English hooligan skinhead covered with tattoos tried to start a riot because the waiter would not go home with him. I say deport these morons. They give us grateful-to-be-here farangs a bad name. The level of farang stupidity and immaturity in this country is appalling.

[myauq]

i totally sympathise with the op on this one.

i'd say that there are lots of punctual thais, but as a rule the culture doesn't really encourage punctuality as a virtue, so it's easier for them to be slack when making and keeping appointments.

if you're in a relationship with someone or dealing with friends who are often late, and you explain the importance of time in doing what you want to do (ie having plans for something else, or paying for them), then i'd say that they are being rude. you've got a right to be jacked off.

my advice would be to reward the good behaviour and ignore the baaad non-punctual, deadline/appointment-missing behaviour. if you've got an appointment to do something with your b/f you have to build up the resolve, and just go without him. don't stress, and try not to let it affect you're sense of enjoyment or having a good time.

another thing might be to surround yourself with other thais who are punctual. when they turn up on time, and you go out together and have a good time, your bf might see the virtues of doing this himself. that way you reward the good bahaviour (the punctual friend), whilst not suffering the consequences of having to scauld him when he's late, which would probably make things worse.

good luck dude.

[Steve2UK]

another thing might be to surround yourself with other thais who are punctual. when they turn up on time, and you go out together and have a good time, your bf might see the virtues of doing this himself. that way you reward the good bahaviour (the punctual friend), whilst not suffering the consequences of having to scauld him when he's late, which would probably make things worse.

Given the legendary capacity of many Thai for industrial strength jealousy, I have a feeling that this suggestion is highly likely to end in a lot of tears......

[PeaceBlondie]

Many of us are already home. We live here, at our Thai home. I know a lot of the posters did not move across the world to recreate Neuuu Yawwhk City or any other city. We have adapted, maybe 85% of our lifestyles, to accomodate Thai culture and Thainess. But we are discussing close personal relationships, usually defined as partnerships. Some of us have adapted our gay sex positions for our Thai partners, and our diets, and sacrificed huge parts of our punctuality.

Peekint, could you repackage your post, even the semen, and post it in General Topics? It applies to most of the Thai Visa readers.

[onni4me]

Why oh why do Westerners move to Thailand and then proceed to complain about the Thais and the Thai culture? If it is so unbearable living here then get the hel_l back to wherever you came from.

I think I've heard this before...let's me see where was that...er...

Go back wherever you came from. Your posting in appalling and very intolerant.

Thanks for reminding me why I like it here. As one guy said, problems begin with talking to Farangs (or Faranglike people, maybe even Thais) not goodhearted Thais.

Edited September 22, 2008 by onni4me