Tourist Visa Refusal – Girlfriend Refused At Aus

[Andrew Aitch]

TOURIST VISA REFUSAL – Student gets refused at Australian Embassy.

Has anyone had any bad experiences trying to get a Tourist Visa for their Thai partner at the Australian Embassy in Bkk recently?

In our situation, we honestly thought the ‘cat was in the bag’ as the application was honest and straight forward. A trip of a lifetime for my partner and I was just days away. I had this premature vision of the luggage being loaded into the back of a Bangkok taxi as we departed for the airport. It gave me pleasure to watch my Thai girlfriend’s excitement as she geared up for her first ever travel experience outside the Kingdom.

My girlfriend is a 2nd year student at SIAM University in Thonburi, Bangkok. We provided more information than was requested by the Application Form 48R THA. We actually called the Embassy to check we had everything that what required then delivered all and more.

Today she not only got a Visa Refusal from the Embassy but it was worded in such a way that I was a Pimp, a People Smuggler or both, and she was to become an illegal Immigrant the day she touched Australian soil. Talk about guilty until proven innocent! Such assumptions are surely bordering on the slanderous?

The interviewing officer wrote the following in her ‘Reasons for the Visa Refusal’:

* IN YOUR SITUATION I AM NOT SATISFIED THAT YOU ARE IN GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT.

We never said she was! We said she was a full time student, with a letter from her University to prove it, and that she had a part time job at a cinema complex and a letter from her employer verifying that too.

* I AM NOT SATISFIED YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT FUNDS OF YOUR OWN.

We never said she had. As stated in the application form, assuming someone has read it, I was put down as the person supporting her for the entire trip. I gave current copies of both my UK and Bkk bank statements that show more than ample funds for a short 2 week trip down under.

* I AM NOT SATISFIED THAT FROM YOUR PERSONAL SITUATION THAT YOU WILL ABIDE BY THE CONDITIONS OF YOUR VISA AND THAT YOUR EXPRESSED INTENTION TO ONLY VISIT AUSTRALIA IS GENUINE.

An Unbelievably rude statement from someone who knows nothing of the applicant or her partner. Doesn’t the above announcement translate to: ‘We suspect this guy of yours is going to smuggle you in under false pretences and leave you there to do whatever it is you do best thousands of miles away from home!! Oh, and by the way, in case you haven’t noticed, we think you’re a liar!?

We’ve been a couple now for 18 months. We gave contact details and phone numbers of the Office Manager from our last residence where we lived together for 1 year. We also included office contact details of the place we have recently moved into, so if your staff wanted to verify our common-in-law status, they could simply pick up the phone and speak to the relevant people.

Of course I called the Embassy to protest and demanded to speak to the powers that be. After getting nowhere with one lady, I got put through to a laidback Australian guy. He said in a sarcastic tone that despite my partner’s refusal, 95% of Thai Visa Applications to Australia are granted. He also added that statistically, University students are the most common offenders when it comes to not returning home to Thailand and her ‘Student Status’ probably went against her.

I thought her ‘Student Status’ would have really cut some ice for her but instead it turns out to be a bloody liability if what he said is true, which I personally find it hard to believe.

I said I am going to appeal to which he replied;

“You have no democratic right to appeal, but for another 2,000B you can reapply. I must point out however that you need to give more details and proof of your relationship”.

I then asked the following questions: “As an experienced and high ranking Embassy Official, what was missing from my partner’s application and what kind of things should she include to strengthen the next one should we decide to reapply?”

The answer was the same as the first lady I spoke to, which was:

“Up to you. We can’t advise you on that. You’ll have to think for yourselves what may be of benefit to a fresh application”.

I then said I’ll write to the Ambassador and complain about the unsavory tone of the Letter of Rejection and disobliging staff. He said “fine, was there anything else, or was that all?”

That’s it, her trip and first travel experience outside of Thailand was shattered today and our planned departure for next Thursday has to be cancelled.

End

Has anyone else has any similar experiences with the Australian Embassy? Also, does anyone really have any idea what they need from 2 non Australians that would prove they’re in a ‘real’ relationship?

Thanks

Aitch

[Dickie]

Students from all over the world come to the UK and end up ignoring the terms for their entry into the country. Amusingly enough there are plenty of Aussies working here who shouldn't be, but no one I know bats an eyelid as most of them will go back home after they've become bored with the level of sunshine. However, students from poor countries are a nightmare for over-staying. The laidback Oz-bloke was probably being honest when he made his student remark.

[udon]

I'm sorry to read of your bad experience.

I wish I could offer some advice but I might be in the same pozzie as you one day, even though I'm an Ozmate.

Re-apply mate.

There are loads of guys on this forum who have succeeded with taking their partner to Oz for a hol.

I hope that they will help you.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I'm sorry to read of your bad experience.

I wish I could offer some advice but I might be in the same pozzie as you one day, even though I'm an Ozmate.

Re-apply mate.

There are loads of guys on this forum who have succeeded with taking their partner to Oz for a hol.

I hope that they will help you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Udon's advice is sound, and well worth trying. The Australian Ambassador is a Foreign Affairs official with no influence whatsoever in visa matters. The laid back lad is an Immigration officer from DIMIA. No point in writing to the Ambassador, your correspondence would be binned.

[doodex66]

Nothing you can do mate.Me and then my girlfriend were gonna go to Perth to get married and for her to improve english. I even paid all english school fees up front ,reserved accomodation.She is registered nurse with the job.I had $40k cash.The reply was the same .Its standard form of refusal.Instead we went to South Africa.30 days visa on arrival no questions asked.

Doodex66

[Pink Mist]

my favourite subject

these case workers really are a law unto themselves, the Oz officials tend to leave them alone and only get involved reluctantly.

Some CW tend to make their mind up about a particular applicant from first appearances and never sway from that, you will find they keep refusing the applications and just give the same reason, risk of overstay, no genuine reason to return to LOS.

I remember being there once and this guy was going ballistic because he was refused a tourist visa, the reason, they had been going back to Oz for holliday every year for 9 years and the tenth application was refused, reason as above.

You could try to ring the person who's name is on the refusal letter but they may not return your call, I tried for 4 weeks to contact a lady called gemma jackson by telephone and never recieved a reply. I also emailed the embassy and got a reply stating she was out of the office and would respond when she returned, I have sent many emails since and still no reply from her for 2 months.

I tried to get a tourist visa for my wife twice and was refused both times and then decided to try my local MP whose staff did a great job in assisting us with a spouse visa. That may be the way to go but it depends on the polly a lot don't want to get involved unless there is some mileage in it for them.

The only other thing I have noticed from posts here is that some CW are good and others absolute aholes, so it just depends on the luck of the draw, and they do get moved around a bit ,so if you give it a while, you may get a more realistic CW.

good luck anyway

Edited November 24, 2004 by bronco

[Khutan]

Bronco;

I can't agree with you more:

my favourite subject

these case workers really are a law unto themselves, the Oz officials tend to leave them alone and only get involved reluctantly.

Can we have a new section in the forum, dedicated to what total pigs the caseworkers and interviewing officers in the Australian embassy in Bangkok are.

And I am not saying its the Embassy, or Australia or the people of Australia etc etc, its the caseworkers and interviewing officers.....

[SK1972]

It is unfortunate you have to experience this. I love Australia and have visited it many times.....I do agree the immigration in some countries suck.....fortunately I have never had any problems visiting any country

Go to another country then, forget Australia!!! Maybe take her to UK?? It could be easier since you are a Brit........

Good luck mate!

[Pink Mist]

I don't think the forum is really the place for that kind of thing Matt, although I have felt that way quite a few times.

It would also be reasonable to assume that someone at the embassy would be reading the content of this forum, so it would be a good idea to keep that in mind for future dealings with immigration.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with an accurate, concise post, containing the facts concerning a visa refusals, inefficency and the like.

Perhaps the admins can give their thoughts

[penelope]

Bronco;

I can't agree with you more:

my favourite subject

these case workers really are a law unto themselves, the Oz officials tend to leave them alone and only get involved reluctantly.

Can we have a new section in the forum, dedicated to what total pigs the caseworkers and interviewing officers in the Australian embassy in Bangkok are.

And I am not saying its the Embassy, or Australia or the people of Australia etc etc, its the caseworkers and interviewing officers.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife is an Aussie citizen so doesn't need a visa, but her thai family need visas for when they go to Aussie, and by all accounts they have always had pleasant experiences and no hassles with the immigration staff.

They are just doing their job mate, I'm sure it is not an easy job, but I'd rather that they were overly difficult as opposed to lenient when screening aliens coming to MY country. If being extra strict means that 1 legitmate application gets declined for every 10 that are successfully screened, well then, I guess that's just the price to pay for a better quality immigrant stream.

[Pink Mist]

I can see your point penelope, but I wonder what your attitude would be if some your experiences were negative.

I also wonder what the actual refusal rate is and would suspect it is higher than one in ten.

Remember we are specifically talking about the embassy in Bkk.

Look at the recent history of visitors to Oz with terrorist backgrounds granted visas from other embassies, bashher and the frenchman come to mind.

My Niece has applied twice for a tourist visa and was refused twice, official reason, no reason to return to LOS, real reason the CW made her mind up that she was unsuitable.

Niece is a graduate Civil Engineer, has never worked in her profession because of the shortage of vacancies. She has worked as a teacher and at present is a bookeeper (She is qualified in that field also) for a small engineering firm in KK. She had a letter from her employer stating that she had a job to return to, her employer is also a police seargeant and he included his rank etc on the letter. The case worker ignored the letter and was more concerned with the fact that she was working as a bookeeper,strike one

She is quite wealthy by Thai standards having inherited the money from her deceased father, she showed the CW her bank books going back many years, CW reaction, how do we know that's where the money came from strike two

She has a house and land, showed the titles to CW, not interested strike three

What I am saying is it's not an even playing field there are lots of inconsistencies and they should be fixed.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I can see your point penelope, but I wonder what your attitude would be if some your experiences were negative.

I also wonder what the actual refusal rate is and would suspect it is higher than one in ten.

Remember we are specifically talking about the embassy in Bkk.

Look at the recent history of visitors to Oz with terrorist backgrounds granted visas from other embassies, bashher and the frenchman come to mind.

My Niece has applied twice for a tourist visa and was refused twice, official reason, no reason to return to LOS, real reason the CW made her mind up that she was unsuitable.

Niece is a graduate Civil Engineer, has never worked in her profession because of the shortage of vacancies. She has worked as a teacher and at present is a bookeeper (She is qualified in that field also) for a small engineering firm in KK. She had a letter from her employer stating that she had a job to return to, her employer is also a police seargeant and he included his rank etc on the letter. The case worker ignored the letter and was more concerned with the fact that she was working as a bookeeper,strike one

She is quite wealthy by Thai standards having inherited the money from her deceased father, she showed the CW her bank books going back many years, CW reaction, how do we know that's where the money came from strike two

She has a house and land, showed the titles to CW, not interested strike three

What I am saying is it's not an even playing field there are lots of inconsistencies and they should be fixed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It ain't just the Australian Embassy Bronco. All the western Embassies are tough as nails on Thai's. Japan is super tough on 'em.

[camerata]

That’s it, her trip and first travel experience outside of Thailand was shattered today and our planned departure for next Thursday has to be cancelled.

Has anyone else has any similar experiences with the Australian Embassy?  Also, does anyone really have any idea what they need from 2 non Australians that would prove they’re in a ‘real’ relationship?

Perhaps if she has a couple of stamps in her passport from other countries it will help convince the Oz embassy that she does in fact return to Thailand after trips abroad. Could you take her for a quick trip to Malaysia or someplace else and leave the Australia vacation for another time?

[Pink Mist]

yep you right doc but my point was the one in Bkk, well you know my thoughts on that.

A friend of mine has had 2 visits from his g/f this year, she doesn't have a job or investments in LOS to return to, but no problem.

It's a lottery whether you get a reasonable CW or not.

[penelope]

I can see your point penelope, but I wonder what your attitude would be if some your experiences were negative.

If my experiences were negative, I'd be dissapointed, but objective and persistent rather than reactive and emotive.

I also wonder what the actual refusal rate is and would suspect it is higher than one in ten.

Definately, those aren't real statistics, but I think you understand the intent.

What I am saying is it's not an even playing field there are lots of inconsistencies and they should be fixed.

It's not a perfect system, and as long as people are involved in the process, it will continue in the same vein. The key is to understand/accept this and then approach the system objectively/tactically.

[Khutan]

don't think the forum is really the place for that kind of thing Matt

Bronco;

Agree 100%, but I suppose that the frustration with these peoples behaviour invites ridicule, and certainly dodn't make me hold my head up to say I am Australian.

[Pink Mist]

I am not pointing at the system, my critisism is levelled at the locall employed embassy staff.

My wife was refused a tourist visa on 2 occasions, by the same CW, I'm sure I've told you b4, anyway with some political intervention we managed to obtain a spouse visa.

The CW involved previously handled our application again and it was chalk and cheese, she was a very polite and pleasant person during the interview.

On our return to Oz I visited the politicians office to offer my thanks and was asked what the CW's attitude was like this time and I told them and the comment was "we know". I suspect she had been hauled over the coals for some of the comments made to me and was given this assignment by a senior immigration official.

[surin]

Make an appointment to see an Australian manager at the Embassy...Lesley Dalton or Grace and explain your position with them. Usually makes a difference when they can see you're genuine!!

Don't give up.

[camerata]

It ain't just the Australian Embassy Bronco. All the western Embassies are tough as nails on Thai's. Japan is super tough on 'em.

And yet there are bars in Osaka staffed entirely by Thai females.

Some unmarried (late 20s) female staff at the company I work for have been to Japan for vacations. Lots of documentation required but never any real hassle. I think the fact that they've worked at the same company for 8-9 years carries a lot of weight.

[SK1972]

Perhaps if she has a couple of stamps in her passport from other countries it will help convince the Oz embassy that she does in fact return to Thailand after trips abroad. Could you take her for a quick trip to Malaysia or someplace else and leave the Australia vacation for another time?

I dont think an Asian country would bear much weight.....it should be a Western country

[Andrew Aitch]

Thanks for all the feed back guys. The annoying thing was the information we provided verifying our common-in-law status was never checked by the CW. So if they don't check the evidence to start with, what's the point of providing more of the same?

I was looking forward to seeing my sister for the first time in 13 years but I'll not be going alone. We'll take a holiday somewhere else. It's just a shame that a genuine appeal is not allowed. Their word is final and that’s that I guess.

However, I have not totally accepted the rude manner in which they rejected the Visa Application. I have sent a 3 page letter of complaint expressing my disbelief in the uncivil way they worded the rejection. It finishes like this:

'As you can tell by the tone of this letter I am more than a little upset. I don’t expect a reversal and it’s too late for us to even consider submitting a second application as our plans were made to coincide with those in Australia. I do however expect a reply of sorts referring specifically to the case and I would also like to see a more sensitive and humane letter outlining the ‘Reasons for the Visa Refusal’. Hostile assumptions is not what one expects from Public Servants of a civilized country and whoever generated these responses needs their bloody ar*e kicking. It’s just so unnecessary'.

I will pursue this matter by whatever means until I am satisfied by the outcome.

That’s it, thanks once again for the feedback one and all.

Aitch

[Pink Mist]

Make an appointment to see an Australian manager at the Embassy...Lesley Dalton or Grace and explain your position with them.  Usually makes a difference when they can see you're genuine!!

Don't give up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is Grace still there Surin?

[muenwai2]

Andrew Aitch

I've read and re-read this topic with fascination.

I understand you needing to let off steam and tend to sympathise with you.

However, what on earth good to you think a 3 page letter to the embassy will do. Do you think they will turn round and say sorry.

I suspect you are not Australian so they couldn't care 2 hoots and in any case you were not the one applying for the visa.

It's probably been copied to their British (are you?) opposites by now.

I assume your sister is an Australian citizen. You should have used her a asponsor.

Common in law status? Do you mean common law marriage. Written out by Englih statute long long ago and as such is inapplicable wherever English common law takes precedence e.g. Australia. Recognised in Budhism but not in Thai staute so irrelvant I'm sorry to say. Anyway why should they check. It is your GF responsibility to provide necessary evidence.

Question I would have asked is if you lived together for a year why not marry, or even get engaged.

I have no experience of OZ officialdom but I suspect it is more reasonable and fairer than you suggest. Maybe they even made the right decision.

[Pink Mist]

De Facto relationships are recognised in Oz, 1 year of co-habitation is enough to ensure your partner can get a crack at your possesions if it goes sour.

[SK1972]

De Facto relationships are recognised in Oz, 1 year of co-habitation is enough to ensure your partner can get a crack at your possesions if it goes sour.

Bronco..yes in Australia and a lot of western countries..but not for visa/immigration purposes..........

Aitch........good idea, go visit another country which will accept your wife!! I know its a bummer not to be able to see you sister...maybe you can fly her out or depending on how much you want to see her, go alone.........

[Pink Mist]

De Facto relationships are recognised in Oz, 1 year of co-habitation is enough to ensure your partner can get a crack at your possesions if it goes sour.

Bronco..yes in Australia and a lot of western countries..but not for visa/immigration purposes..........

Aitch........good idea, go visit another country which will accept your wife!! I know its a bummer not to be able to see you sister...maybe you can fly her out or depending on how much you want to see her, go alone.........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know where you are getting your information from, but as far as de-facto goes in Oz for whatever purpose, it is a binding relationship.

have a look here defacto and go to page 20 onwards, then tell me it's not relevent to a spouse visa.

I dont want to be a smart arse but I have read this thing a few times.

Edited November 26, 2004 by bronco

[SK1972]

Bronco....nothing wrong with you wanting to express what you have read. As far as I know, one of my Aussie friend's "husband", living together for the past 2 years in Thailand was told to get registered before they would grant him a spouse visa or for migration. He is Thai and educated in USA....

So, I dont know who or what is right anymore.

[lopburi3]

Bronco....nothing wrong with you wanting to express what you have read. As far as I know, one of my Aussie friend's "husband", living together for the past 2 years in Thailand was told to get registered before they would grant him a spouse visa or for migration.  He is Thai and educated in USA....

So, I dont know who or what is right anymore.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From quick read of link Bronco provided believe a spouse visa should be issued on basis of living together as husband and wife and there should be no need for a marriage registration (unless they could not prove it or the Embassy would not accept their proof). But this would not have anything to do with a tourist visa.

[SK1972]

Lopburi......no idea. They showed bank statements in joint names with correspondence address at their residence which they share, phone bill was in his name, power bill was in his name, UBC bill was in her name.....all at the same address...........and they have their families (both sides) write statements and even letters from their employers. What else should they have done to prove it?

This happened early this year.........Anyway, they decided to get married and everything went well...... Seems to be NO consistency in anything nowadays!

I was told that there are different conditions when you apply from Australia and from out of Australia.

[lopburi3]

Lopburi......no idea. They showed bank statements in joint names with correspondence address at their residence which they share, phone bill was in his name, power bill was in his name, UBC bill was in her name.....all at the same address...........and they have their families (both sides) write statements and even letters from their employers. What else should they have done to prove it?

This happened early this year.........Anyway, they decided to get married and everything went well......   Seems to be NO consistency in anything nowadays!

I was told that there are different conditions when you apply from Australia and from out of Australia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They would have to prove it back 12 months but if they could believe there probably is a difference in application inside Oz and using the Embassy here (right or wrong).