Applying For Permanent Residency Next Year

[DeathbyDurian]

Hello all,

I've been following Camerata's guide to PR for a while now and have decided that I will apply in December 09. (assuming the political side has settled down and the people from Dec 06 are finally approved!)

I qualify for the basic stats:

Been here more than 3 years, working all of them. Have paid taxes and can prove it.

I can get all of the legal documents and certificates outlined in the residency section and other posts.

If all goes to plan I will be married in Oct 09 aswell.

My main question is how to I make myself a more appealing applicant? I have a low/moderate grasp of Thai and am currently learning to read. By the time I actually have my interview (March 2010?) I will be much more proficient.

So, beyond that, what other things could I do?

Visit an orphanage once a month? Do some volunteer work?

Any helpful suggestions appreciated - I've got more than a year to 'pad' my resume!

Also, what are the pros/cons of the Working PR vs. the Marriage PR? Is one easier to get?

Thanks!

[skippybangkok]

Well, sounds like your in the spec already.

Thai fluency ability is not a black and white yes or no, and some pretty bad people still got through from what i know.

Marriage PR is half the price, would say that's a pro in itself. I suspect the criteria might be a little more flexible too ( not sure though )

bet wishes.

[Artisi]

Make sure you have work permit if you want to do any volunteer work

[NHJ]

when you say been there for three years, i guess it's on extension of stay as visas are not recognized valid to apply the PR.

[DeathbyDurian]

when you say been there for three years, i guess it's on extension of stay as visas are not recognized valid to apply the PR.

I have a Non-Imm B visa with work permit that has been renewed for the last 4 years.

[Maestro]

“Renewed” is an ambiguous term in the context of you post. You either went to a Thai embassy or consulate every so often and got a new visa, which would not qualify for PR, or you got annual extensions of stay at an immigration office, which qualify for PR.

--

Maestro

[DeathbyDurian]

“Renewed” is an ambiguous term in the context of you post. You either went to a Thai embassy or consulate every so often and got a new visa, which would not qualify for PR, or you got annual extensions of stay at an immigration office, which qualify for PR.

--

Maestro

Sorry for not being clear, but yes, I have been to immigration each year and have gotten extensions on my original visa since 2004.

[Maizefarmer]

So 2009 will be end of year 4? - you're pretty much on the border line, and depending on your nationality and how many others of the same nationality are also applying I'd say from what you have said, you satisfy the very basic/min requirement from the "time spent in Thailand to date" - and that is an important aspect in the overall scoring.

So thats not your strong point.

All things equal between 2 applicants, running your business has always scored more than been an employee of a business.

Overall its a combination of so many considerations, not least of which is the impression you create during interview (attitude, personality,character).

My personal opinion - I'd give it another couple years.

It's not the "easy" process it used to be. In the 80's (when I jumped through all the hoops) it was a lot more straight forward. Nowadays, other than for saving you never-ending visa applications and airticket costs, I have to wonder if its worth it - unless of course your'e working towards Thai citizenship.

[skippybangkok]

My personal opinion - I'd give it another couple years.

Maizefarmer, hope your ok after ur accident.

For the 7000 or 8000 baht, why not give it a shot ? ( actually is more if you factor in the cost of all the certified paper work ). Alot of paper work though !

[DeathbyDurian]

So 2009 will be end of year 4? - you're pretty much on the border line, and depending on your nationality and how many others of the same nationality are also applying I'd say from what you have said, you satisfy the very basic/min requirement from the "time spent in Thailand to date" - and that is an important aspect in the overall scoring.

I would have to agree that they would want people who have been here more than 5 years, but have you heard of people being rejected just because they only satisfy the minimum length of stay requirements?

All things equal between 2 applicants, running your business has always scored more than been an employee of a business.

What about supporting the business of a Thai wife? By my application date we should have two shops up and running - all in her name.

It's not the "easy" process it used to be. In the 80's (when I jumped through all the hoops) it was a lot more straight forward. Nowadays, other than for saving you never-ending visa applications and airticket costs, I have to wonder if its worth it - unless of course your'e working towards Thai citizenship.

Actually my work gives me plane tickets and pays for/does all my visa and work permit stuff....but i don't want to be working for them forever.

It is a lot of hoops to jump through, but it seems worth it to do it early and while it is still 'feasable' - you never know what hoops they could add in the next ten years!

[DeathbyDurian]

My personal opinion - I'd give it another couple years.

For the 7000 or 8000 baht, why not give it a shot ? ( actually is more if you factor in the cost of all the certified paper work ). Alot of paper work though !

That is my theory - it isn't that much money and since it seems to be taking two years from application date to success, I might as well start trying as soon as I can.

[younghusband]

All things equal between 2 applicants, running your business has always scored more than been an employee of a business.

I've never heard this before and frankly doubt whether it's true.Neither I nor several others I know who have PR run their own businesses.I would have thought what was much more important is what kind of position one holds in what kind of business, whether as an owner or a manager

[thaihome]

Sorry for not being clear, but yes, I have been to immigration each year and have gotten extensions on my original visa since 2004.

In the interest of accuracy, you have been getting extensions on your permission to stay stamp, not your visa.

TH

[Maizefarmer]

All things equal between 2 applicants, running your business has always scored more than been an employee of a business.

I've never heard this before and frankly doubt whether it's true.Neither I nor several others I know who have PR run their own businesses.I would have thought what was much more important is what kind of position one holds in what kind of business, whether as an owner or a manager

I know for a cast iron fact it is true

But that is not to say (as you have added) that not having your own business means no PR - me too, I know loads of folk who have spent their wholes working lives in Thailand as employee's as opposed to employer's and have PR.

Kind of business and position? - yes, most certainly is something looked at, but I haven't any idea how businesses and/or positions are ranked - we can speculate about them but does anybody know for a fact how they fall into the system?

[Maizefarmer]

My personal opinion - I'd give it another couple years.

Maizefarmer, hope your ok after ur accident.

For the 7000 or 8000 baht, why not give it a shot ? ( actually is more if you factor in the cost of all the certified paper work ). Alot of paper work though !

Hi - back to as normal as i think i will ever be - thanx for asking.

Yer - the paperwork nowadays is scary scary (photographs of each room of the house - inside! - what on earth for?, does anyone know why?)

[younghusband]

I know for a cast iron fact it is true ...

I'm afraid I have to question your "cast iron fact".There is absolutely no evidence that preference in PR is given to foreigners who run their own businesses.

As to kind of business and position, the more senior and the more tax paid the better.

[grtaylor]

I am one of the December 06 applicants. I've worked here for quite a long time, ten years in my current job. I have a graduate degree from Assumption University (taught in English), which went down extremely well with the lady Police Sergeant in Room 301! As part of that course, I had done some volunteer work and provided documentation of that in the way of photos. I also got two supporting letters (along with photos) from Thai friends, one a professor at Chula University, and the other an eminent person in the Thai musical scene, with the very highest connections (if you follow my meaning). Everything of that nature helps, I think.

Whenever I visited immigration I dressed well, always wearing a tie, and tried hard to be as polite as possible, wai-ing where necessary, etc, etc. I really believe this all helped. However, once the immigration department has "signed off" on your papers, its all in the hands of a higher authority, and you then just have to play the waiting game.

I'm still waiting, as are the other people who applied at the same time . . . . .

By the way, I have heard the the Thai test has got rather more difficult this year. You might ask someone from the December 07 applicants.

Hope that helps.

[prakhonchai nick]

I have Thai residency. Had it for more than 17 years. Was easy to get then. But I would ask you why you want it? Apart from not having to obtain visa renewals (probably annually and within Thailand if you are married or will be), and not reporting your home address every 90 days (not a hardship since this can be done by post), there are basically no benefits.

And at around 100,000bt + all the extras is it worth it.

I originally obtained it since there were strong rumours that the then 500bt annual visa renewal fee would be drastically increased. This never happened, and visa renewal fees have increased in line with inflation.

I would not go through all the hassle again.

Doesn't even guarantee Thai prices to national parks zoos etc. A Thai driving licence at 100bt will do just as well!

[ianh68]

I have Thai residency. Had it for more than 17 years. Was easy to get then. But I would ask you why you want it? Apart from not having to obtain visa renewals (probably annually and within Thailand if you are married or will be), and not reporting your home address every 90 days (not a hardship since this can be done by post), there are basically no benefits.

And at around 100,000bt + all the extras is it worth it.

I originally obtained it since there were strong rumours that the then 500bt annual visa renewal fee would be drastically increased. This never happened, and visa renewal fees have increased in line with inflation.

I would not go through all the hassle again.

Doesn't even guarantee Thai prices to national parks zoos etc. A Thai driving licence at 100bt will do just as well!

I, too, would like an answer to these questions.

[ScienceGuy]

I have Thai residency. Had it for more than 17 years. Was easy to get then. But I would ask you why you want it? Apart from not having to obtain visa renewals (probably annually and within Thailand if you are married or will be), and not reporting your home address every 90 days (not a hardship since this can be done by post), there are basically no benefits.

And at around 100,000bt + all the extras is it worth it.

I originally obtained it since there were strong rumours that the then 500bt annual visa renewal fee would be drastically increased. This never happened, and visa renewal fees have increased in line with inflation.

I would not go through all the hassle again.

Doesn't even guarantee Thai prices to national parks zoos etc. A Thai driving licence at 100bt will do just as well!

I, too, would like an answer to these questions.

It isn't worth it. They're asking for over $3,000 for a residency permit. In many countries, this is granted after you've lived in the country legally for a few months. Residency is a legal status for people working and living in a foreign country which allows them to do banking, enter contracts more easily, have identification, etc. The Thai government is just exploiting people.

As far as citizenship goes, this might be worth the time, money, and hassle if you can legally own land and compete with the Thais in any industry. I think this terrifies them because they can't compete with foreigners well; hence the ridiculous obstacles to citizenship such as a $3,000 residency permit and citizenship which can be revoked for no reason.

Honestly, you might be better off investing your $3,000 in a side-business rather than "token citizenship". Sure, a Thai passport makes a good souvenir, but it's basically worthless when you do a cost-benefit analysis. Seriously, think about it... A small business pulling in a million baht a month(might take time to get that big, but it has been done), would be money in the bank. In 5 years, the Thais yank all the citizenship of all the whiteys, you have to go back to being on a Non-B, but you're up with a lot of money and money can be moved around. Given the rate of pollution and environmental degradation in Thailand, you'd be better off if you're able to pack up and leave after it becomes unbearable.

Just my $0.02

[Frotting]

Very sound reasoning I would say. Probably not what the OP wants to hear, but given the present political and economic climate (and many other issues), is there any advantage to having PR? The answer's gotta be no, not really!

[grtaylor]

Its very difficult to put into words why I applied. Looking at it logically, there don't seem many benefits. I guess part of it is psychological, in a sense. I have passports with 18 years of stamps, saying "permitted to remain until . . . . . . ", and that isn't enough for me. I don't want to be just "permitted" to remain on what is always a temporary basis. I want it to be exactly what it says: "Permanent".

[Sojourner]

Its very difficult to put into words why I applied. Looking at it logically, there don't seem many benefits. I guess part of it is psychological, in a sense. I have passports with 18 years of stamps, saying "permitted to remain until . . . . . . ", and that isn't enough for me. I don't want to be just "permitted" to remain on what is always a temporary basis. I want it to be exactly what it says: "Permanent".

Sorry, and I don't want to sound flippant, but aren't we all penciled in around here?

[Artisi]

Disregarding the costs and the hassles of obtaining residency status, the advantage as I see it is that once you have it you are not subject to the whims of governemnt change re requirements, cost etc etc of visa extensions. eg at the moment retirement extension is B800 000 in the bank or income and bank totalling the same amount each year - what is to stop a change to B2 000 000 / annum - nothing just a signature on a new law and that's it.

[DeathbyDurian]

I have Thai residency. Had it for more than 17 years. Was easy to get then. But I would ask you why you want it? Apart from not having to obtain visa renewals (probably annually and within Thailand if you are married or will be), and not reporting your home address every 90 days (not a hardship since this can be done by post), there are basically no benefits.

And at around 100,000bt + all the extras is it worth it.

I originally obtained it since there were strong rumours that the then 500bt annual visa renewal fee would be drastically increased. This never happened, and visa renewal fees have increased in line with inflation.

I would not go through all the hassle again.

Doesn't even guarantee Thai prices to national parks zoos etc. A Thai driving licence at 100bt will do just as well!

I think the main reason I want it is the freedom it offers. Which is ultimately the ability to stop working whenever I feel like it and not have to scramble to find a new visa or be worried about how much is in this or that bank acocunt.

Get all the red tape wrapped up into one neat little box and be done with it.

Then in theory, I can sit on my duff living off my investments and overseas businesses for as long as I please with no major contact with immigration forever!

100k for something that 'lasts forever' (has anyone even heard of it being revoked?) seems like an ok deal to me.

I think as foriegners we all feel a bit temporary - this as gtaylor puts it - makes me feel a little more permanent.

[DeathbyDurian]

I am one of the December 06 applicants. I've worked here for quite a long time, ten years in my current job. I have a graduate degree from Assumption University (taught in English), which went down extremely well with the lady Police Sergeant in Room 301! As part of that course, I had done some volunteer work and provided documentation of that in the way of photos. I also got two supporting letters (along with photos) from Thai friends, one a professor at Chula University, and the other an eminent person in the Thai musical scene, with the very highest connections (if you follow my meaning). Everything of that nature helps, I think.

Whenever I visited immigration I dressed well, always wearing a tie, and tried hard to be as polite as possible, wai-ing where necessary, etc, etc. I really believe this all helped. However, once the immigration department has "signed off" on your papers, its all in the hands of a higher authority, and you then just have to play the waiting game.

I'm still waiting, as are the other people who applied at the same time . . . . .

By the way, I have heard the the Thai test has got rather more difficult this year. You might ask someone from the December 07 applicants.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the tips! You should have a pretty easy time getting accepted with those qualifications.

Re: the Thai test, anybody here an 07 applicant?

[ubonjoe]

I think the main reason I want it is the freedom it offers. Which is ultimately the ability to stop working whenever I feel like it and not have to scramble to find a new visa or be worried about how much is in this or that bank acocunt.

Get all the red tape wrapped up into one neat little box and be done with it.

Then in theory, I can sit on my duff living off my investments and overseas businesses for as long as I please with no major contact with immigration forever!

100k for something that 'lasts forever' (has anyone even heard of it being revoked?) seems like an ok deal to me.

I think as foriegners we all feel a bit temporary - this as gtaylor puts it - makes me feel a little more permanent.

Thats exactly how I feel about it. When the time comes that I meet all the requirements I plan on doing it. The only problem I can see is that they could raise the bars again. I am married to a Thai and they did it already when they took out the 300,000 baht in the bank option.

[astral]

Make sure your wife to be speaks to you in Thai.

You will soon learn.

[perax]

Re: the Thai test, anybody here an 07 applicant?

I'm one of these.. Thai test was in 2 parts... first, introduce yourself to a camera in room 301.. name, occupation, years here, family, date of marriage, etc, etc. Same stuff as in the document they will read you just before taking the video. Just parrot it.

Second step, interview with a few big shots in Suanplu, in the office of the commander on the third floor.. .. a couple of generals, two lady colonels, some assistant. They pretty much follow the points in the evaluation card you'll be given... "health", "family", "salary", contribution to Thai society", etc.

My Thai is rather horrible, and my interview lasted 5 minutes or so. The card has a scorign system, but I'm not sure how important it is when there are so few applicants. About 240 in total in 2007 in Suanplu, across all nationalities. Maybe 5 form my country, against a quota of 100.

Just one point.. make sure you apply in the rigth category... being married by itself does not imply you will pay 97K bath instead than 195K, you also need to apply in the category for "supporting a Thai family". If you apply for another category, then the determination of how much you would need to pay is "at the discretion of the committee". A colleague of mine is in this exact situation, and does not yet know what her fee will be.

I originally applied under "workign in Thailand" and switched to "supportign Thai family" only upon advice from the immigration staff. The first is a bit easier on the paperwork, and does not require DNA tests for the kids (a possibilty in the latter case, partycularly if recently married).

Best wishes.