U.s. Banking Crisis: Capitalism "gone Wild"?

[VegasVic]

Morning Comments NY

*UBS gets 59.bln bailout,6bln franc converts to Govt

*Citigroup loses 2.8bln in 3rd qrt,cuts 11,000 jons

*Merrill posts 7.5bln loss,hurts B of A

*Hedge Funds had 43bln pulled in September

*65bln hedge fund assets frozen in Lehman PB

*Hang Seng down 4.8%, London down 3.19%

*OIL $72.63 GOLD $834

*Money Mkt rates fall as central banks infuse cash

*Credit Suisse will raise 10bln from outside investors

*Freddie mac 30yr rates 5.94% down from 6.10%

*Consumer prices unchanged due to lower fuel prices

Update: GOLD trading down at $788 despite oil being up to $73.54 O.P.'s post about Jim Sinclairs newsletter made for some much needed comic relief this morning Thanks O.P.!!!

Another update!!! GOLD nearing $770/ounce and falling and oil headed below $70/bbl So much for Jimbos newsletter, at least in a pinch that newsleter could come in handy in the comode

Another friendly update from Mr. Vic! Gold trades at $725 currently and oil is $66.50/bbl , I certainly hope that some of you took my adice a few months back I though that the Euro and the Pound might stage a mini rally or at least a dead cat bounce after the drubbing they took yesterday but I see that the euro is doing all it can to keep its head above the $1.28 level and the pound is fighting hard to get back to $1.63. I haven't checked the baht excahange rate for either, but it can't be too pretty right about now

[VegasVic]

I just saw this & had to laugh.

Back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wits who couldn't make money running a whore house and selling booze?

Joe Conforte never had any trouble making some good coin while he was running the Mustang Ranch, of course as you pointed out he was convicted of tax evaision

Ever been there, Vic? Interesting place (so I hear )

I lived in Reno for a little less than a year after I got out of the Air Force (many moons ago), and at the time I was single and dividing my time between cocktail waitresses and change girls, so I never made it out there , but I met Joe a few times, quite a character! I sure wouldn't mind having the Mustang Ranch down the street from me now though

[flying]

I just saw this & had to laugh.

Back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wits who couldn't make money running a whore house and selling booze?

Joe Conforte never had any trouble making some good coin while he was running the Mustang Ranch, of course as you pointed out he was convicted of tax evaision

Ever been there, Vic? Interesting place (so I hear )

I lived in Reno for a little less than a year after I got out of the Air Force (many moons ago), and at the time I was single and dividing my time between cocktail waitresses and change girls, so I never made it out there , but I met Joe a few times, quite a character! I sure wouldn't mind having the Mustang Ranch down the street from me now though

I played blackjack with him on a table at the Flamingo many years ago in Reno.

Yes he was a character. He had a picture album with him of all his.....Mustangs

Hey yes I see that gold dropping but yet still none actually available to buy. Well at least not in the managable sizes

No problem Im loading up on some silver now

I can see where it could get addicting......LOL

[VegasVic]

I just saw this & had to laugh.

Back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wits who couldn't make money running a whore house and selling booze?

Joe Conforte never had any trouble making some good coin while he was running the Mustang Ranch, of course as you pointed out he was convicted of tax evaision

Ever been there, Vic? Interesting place (so I hear )

I lived in Reno for a little less than a year after I got out of the Air Force (many moons ago), and at the time I was single and dividing my time between cocktail waitresses and change girls, so I never made it out there , but I met Joe a few times, quite a character! I sure wouldn't mind having the Mustang Ranch down the street from me now though

I played blackjack with him on a table at the Flamingo many years ago in Reno.

Yes he was a character. He had a picture album with him of all his.....Mustangs

Hey yes I see that gold dropping but yet still none actually available to buy. Well at least not in the managable sizes

No problem Im loading up on some silver now

I can see where it could get addicting......LOL

Careful there flying, commodities still have a ways to go on the downside I hope your'e just nibbling at the moment, at least you have the right idea with silver, silver has actual commercial demand unlike that gold stuff!

[flying]

Careful there flying, commodities still have a ways to go on the downside I hope your'e just nibbling at the moment, at least you have the right idea with silver, silver has actual commercial demand unlike that gold stuff!

Thanks yes I am easing into it in increments.

Somehow I got lucky locally. The dealer is a good one & was only charging $2 over spot. It will be interesting to see these coming days,week,months

Did anyone see Bill Clinton on Letterman last night? Pretty funny watching Letterman's face as he tried to understand the difference between derivatives & sub prime problems.

[Naam]

interesting!

[lannarebirth]

interesting!

That's the most interesting post I've seen here in many weeks Herr Naam. Thank you. Sends a chill up ones spine.

[highdiver]

Naam

thanks for the post.

[Naam]

interesting!

That's the most interesting post I've seen here in many weeks Herr Naam. Thank you. Sends a chill up ones spine.

but the percentages have to be taken "cum grano salis" and the host country's size and actual GDP taken into consideration. distortions result when using comparisons, such as Kaupthing/Iceland vs. Deutsche Bank/Germany. when you pair e.g. BNP, HSBC, Deutsche, Crédit Agricole, Unicredito, Santander and Barclays the picture becomes clearer. there's a lot of information in this graph and an answer is given why Herr Ackermann of Deutsche Bank refuses any aid and therefore interference by the German Government.

[lannarebirth]

interesting!

That's the most interesting post I've seen here in many weeks Herr Naam. Thank you. Sends a chill up ones spine.

but the percentages have to be taken "cum grano salis" and the host country's size and actual GDP taken into consideration. distortions result when using comparisons, such as Kaupthing/Iceland vs. Deutsche Bank/Germany. when you pair e.g. BNP, HSBC, Deutsche, Crédit Agricole, Unicredito, Santander and Barclays the picture becomes clearer. there's a lot of information in this graph and an answer is given why Herr Ackermann of Deutsche Bank refuses any aid and therefore interference by the German Government.

Whoever could imagine that Americans having such relatively little savings, might turn out to be a good thing?

[LaoPo]

interesting!

That's the most interesting post I've seen here in many weeks Herr Naam. Thank you. Sends a chill up ones spine.

but the percentages have to be taken "cum grano salis" and the host country's size and actual GDP taken into consideration. distortions result when using comparisons, such as Kaupthing/Iceland vs. Deutsche Bank/Germany. when you pair e.g. BNP, HSBC, Deutsche, Crédit Agricole, Unicredito, Santander and Barclays the picture becomes clearer. there's a lot of information in this graph and an answer is given why Herr Ackermann of Deutsche Bank refuses any aid and therefore interference by the German Government.

Whoever could imagine that Americans having such relatively little savings, might turn out to be a good thing?

I don't think so LRB.

It's what I call a ''Polaroid'' picture and lasts not very long. In the end many millions of Americans will suffer badly because they didn't prepare for bad times.

I'm not quite sure (but not far off either) but I read that Americans save, on average, 2% of their income versus 35% for the Chinese.

That's also why I have, for the longer term, better hope for survival of the fittest in China rather than the US.

Meaning: the Chinese will face bad times also, like the rest of the world, but they have a lot less to take care for/of than their western counterpart, like fuel consuming expensive, -financed- cars, -expensive- mortgaged homes (Chinese are used to pay 40% down, buying a house), expensive living and I could go on.

Next to that Chinese are used to eat quite cheap whilst driving to and buying in a western supermarket is quite costly.

That's why I don't think that having NO to LITTLE savings was/is a good thing. It simply can't be.

Let me put it this way: I feel a lot better with than without savings

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

interesting!

That's the most interesting post I've seen here in many weeks Herr Naam. Thank you. Sends a chill up ones spine.

but the percentages have to be taken "cum grano salis" and the host country's size and actual GDP taken into consideration. distortions result when using comparisons, such as Kaupthing/Iceland vs. Deutsche Bank/Germany. when you pair e.g. BNP, HSBC, Deutsche, Crédit Agricole, Unicredito, Santander and Barclays the picture becomes clearer. there's a lot of information in this graph and an answer is given why Herr Ackermann of Deutsche Bank refuses any aid and therefore interference by the German Government.

Whoever could imagine that Americans having such relatively little savings, might turn out to be a good thing?

I don't think so LRB.

It's what I call a ''Polaroid'' picture and lasts not very long. In the end many millions of Americans will suffer badly because they didn't prepare for bad times.

I'm not quite sure (but not far off either) but I read that Americans save, on average, 2% of their income versus 35% for the Chinese.

That's also why I have, for the longer term, better hope for survival of the fittest in China rather than the US.

Meaning: the Chinese will face bad times also, like the rest of the world, but they have a lot less to take care for/of than their western counterpart, like fuel consuming expensive, -financed- cars, -expensive- mortgaged homes (Chinese are used to pay 40% down, buying a house), expensive living and I could go on.

Next to that Chinese are used to eat quite cheap whilst driving to and buying in a western supermarket is quite costly.

That's why I don't think that having NO to LITTLE savings was/is a good thing. It simply can't be.

Let me put it this way: I feel a lot better with than without savings

LaoPo

You're right about individuals of course Lao Po. I was speaking more about "systemic" problems. Americans may be up to a 2% savings rate now. I'd read last year it was near a 0% average. It's something I just can't understand, never having been a borrower, save for my first mortgages.

[LaoPo]

You're right about individuals of course Lao Po. I was speaking more about "systemic" problems. Americans may be up to a 2% savings rate now. I'd read last year it was near a 0% average. It's something I just can't understand, never having been a borrower, save for my first mortgages.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

About the 2% savings rate: I read it somewhere but can't recall where and I have no idea if that's true but I think you're right if it's closer to 0% rather then 2%.

IMO there's something fundamentally different between the American 'style' (not just in America itself) of saving and spending and the same in more old fashioned systems and countries.

It's something anchored deep in the way of life, thinking if you wish, to find it normal to spend money which isn't yours....

..walking around with 7 credit cards -and spending with them- whilst a normal person could do without or with just one...

Well, who am I ?

LaoPo

[AlexLah]

Hi all, sorry to interupt but I just finished reading something interesting.

Here is the link: http://shatteredparadigm.blogspot.com/2008...-financial.html

[VegasVic]

Hi all, sorry to interupt but I just finished reading something interesting.

Here is the link: http://shatteredparadigm.blogspot.com/2008...-financial.html

Aah yes, The good old Rothchild-J.P. Morgan New World Order crap again blah blah blah ad nauseum!!! Let me guess your next post will be about the Bilterburger group or perhaps the Free Masons and their ties to the Knights Templar This stuff makes for nice fairy tales, but most of us have to live in the real world

[AlexLah]

OK, whatever.

I found it a different look on things, and a real possibility.

Are you one of those people that also scream: You are a thruther!!!!! when someone asks questions that are not in line with what MSM tries to make you believe?

I am just trying to find different points of view and think about if it could be possible.

And this board is a perfect way to share info and help us all better to understand what the heck is going on.

Over to ground control.

[lannarebirth]

OK, whatever.

I found it a different look on things, and a real possibility.

Are you one of those people that also scream: You are a thruther!!!!! when someone asks questions that are not in line with what MSM tries to make you believe?

I am just trying to find different points of view and think about if it could be possible.

And this board is a perfect way to share info and help us all better to understand what the heck is going on.

Over to ground control.

I don't think we need to go looking past supreme arrogance, unbridled greed and incompetence of overseers to answer the reasons for this global meltdown Alex. Sometimes the most obvious answers are correct

Edited October 23, 2008 by lannarebirth

[VegasVic]

OK, whatever.

I found it a different look on things, and a real possibility.

Are you one of those people that also scream: You are a thruther!!!!! when someone asks questions that are not in line with what MSM tries to make you believe?

I am just trying to find different points of view and think about if it could be possible.

And this board is a perfect way to share info and help us all better to understand what the heck is going on.

Over to ground control.

I don't think we need to go looking past supreme arrogance, unbridled greed and incompetence of overseers to answer the reasons for this global meltdown Alex. Sometimes the most obvious answers are correct

Spot on!!!

[pkrv]

interesting!

OK I'm not too good at this stuff but there were no US banks listed really.

[AlexLah]

I find it funny that you say that, maybe I understand that wrong as I am not a native speaker.

So what are the most obvious answers, and where did you get them from?

Tickertape.

Cnn

Fox

Goldwatch

TV?

The net and where?

Radio interviews?

I am just trying to understand, OK?

Alex

[LaoPo]

America's financial dominance is ending, warns Nouriel Roubini

The world is heading for a nasty, protracted recession that marks the beginning of the end of America's dominance of global finance, according to leading economist Nouriel Roubini.

By Rowena Mason

Last Updated: 12:58PM BST 23 Oct 2008

“It’s the beginning of the decline of the US financial empire. The Great Depression ended in a massive war. I hope that’s not going to happen but it’s pretty ugly now,” said Professor Roubini, an academic and former US Treasury adviser.

He expects a global recession to last for at least two years and said the current crisis could lead to a "massive, ugly war."

“We’re now paying the price for the biggest asset and credit bubble in history," Professor Roubini said at a hedge fund conference in London. "The bail-outs have not worked because the markets are no longer rallying, and the policymakers have run out of options.”

The global meltdown financial meltdown accelerated this month, with the UK and US governments being forced to take stakes in some of the world's biggest banks. Stock markets around the world have fallen sharply this month as investors' concern switches to the impact on the wider economy.

Professor Roubini, who is known for predicting some of the trouble engulfing the financial system, said he would not be surprised if the US and other countries soon had to close their stock markets for more than a week.

“It’s like we’re walking blind in a minefield. Every situation has become risky and no-one can trust each other,” Mr Roubini said.“The banks are too big to be allowed to fail, but they’re also too big to be saved.”

He said that the problems were not just caused by the US sub-prime market, but all kinds of risky lending the world over - from mortgages and cars to student and commercial loans. Investors, according to Professor Roubini, should stay clear of risky assets and keep their money in cash.

-Telegraph

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Roubini Says `Panic' May Force Market Shutdown

By Alexis Xydias and Camilla Hall

Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Hundreds of hedge funds will fail and policy makers may need to shut financial markets for a week or more as the crisis forces investors to dump assets, New York University Professor Nouriel Roubini said.

``We've reached a situation of sheer panic,'' Roubini, who predicted the financial crisis in 2006, told a conference of hedge-fund managers in London today. ``There will be massive dumping of assets'' and ``hundreds of hedge funds are going to go bust,'' he said.

Group of Seven policy makers have stopped short of market suspensions to stem the crisis after the U.S. pledged on Oct. 14 to invest about $125 billion in nine banks and the Federal Reserve led a global coordinated move to cut interest rates on Oct. 8. Emmanuel Roman, co-chief executive officer at GLG Partners Inc., said today that as many as 30 percent of hedge funds will close.

``Systemic risk has become bigger and bigger,'' Roubini said at the Hedge 2008 conference. ``We're seeing the beginning of a run on a big chunk of the hedge funds,'' and ``don't be surprised if policy makers need to close down markets for a week or two in coming days,'' he said.

Roubini predicted in July 2006 that the U.S. would enter an economic recession. In February this year, he forecast a ``catastrophic'' financial meltdown that central bankers would fail to prevent, leading to the bankruptcy of large banks exposed to mortgages and a ``sharp drop'' in equities.

Bear, Lehman

The comments preceded the collapse of Bear Stearns & Cos. and Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. as well as the government seizure of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. The Dow Jones Industrial Average, a benchmark for American equities, has lost 37 percent this year, including its biggest daily drop in more than twenty years on Oct. 15.

The Dow average rose 2.5 percent to 8728.73 as of 10:55 a.m. today in New York.

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi roiled international markets on Oct. 10, first saying world leaders were discussing shutting down global financial exchanges, and then saying he didn't mean it.

``In a fairly Darwinian manner, many hedge funds will simply disappear,'' Roman said, speaking at the same event as Roubini.

The hedge fund industry is stumbling through its worst year in two decades and posted its biggest monthly drop for a decade in September. Hedge funds are mostly private pools of capital whose managers participate substantially in the profits from their speculation on whether the price of assets will rise or fall.

`Very Ugly'

``Things are getting very ugly also in the emerging markets,'' Roubini said. ``The usual saying is when the U.S. sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold. Unfortunately, this time around the U.S. is not just sneezing, it has a severe case of chronic and persistent pneumonia. It's becoming a mess in emerging markets.''

Developing nations' borrowing costs jumped to the highest in six years today as Belarus joined Hungary, Ukraine and Pakistan in seeking a bailout from the International Monetary Fund to help weather frozen money markets and a slump in commodities. Argentina risks defaulting for the second time this decade.

``There are about a dozen emerging markets that are now in severe financial trouble,'' Roubini said. ``Even a small country can have a systemic effect on the global economy,'' he added. ``There is not going to be enough IMF money to support them.''

Roubini, a former senior adviser to the U.S. Treasury Department, earlier this month said that the world's biggest economy will suffer its worst recession in 40 years.

``This is the worst financial crisis in the U.S., Europe and now emerging markets that we've seen in a long time,'' Roubini said. ``Things will get much worse before they get better. I fear the worst is ahead of us.''

-Bloomberg

LaoPo

[Thaddeus]

In case of emergncy.

[flying]

America's financial dominance is ending, warns Nouriel Roubini

He expects a global recession to last for at least two years and said the current crisis could lead to a "massive, ugly war."

LaoPo

Maybe Gold & silver is the wrong way to go?

Perhaps brass & lead is what I should stock up on

[OriginalPoster]

I find it funny that you say that, maybe I understand that wrong as I am not a native speaker.

So what are the most obvious answers, and where did you get them from?

Tickertape.

Cnn

Fox

Goldwatch

TV?

The net and where?

Radio interviews?

I am just trying to understand, OK?

Alex

Of course not. All those MSM sources are in on the conspiracy and have had the discipline to keep it a secret from the sheeple.

[flying]

10/23/2008 - Peter Schiff On Squawk Box

[Pakboong]

OK, whatever.

I found it a different look on things, and a real possibility.

Are you one of those people that also scream: You are a thruther!!!!! when someone asks questions that are not in line with what MSM tries to make you believe?

I am just trying to find different points of view and think about if it could be possible.

And this board is a perfect way to share info and help us all better to understand what the heck is going on.

Over to ground control.

As an aside, many from the early part of of the 20th century believe that Big Daddy Warbucks of the comic strip Little Orphan Annie was patterned after the leading character in the design of the Federal Reserve, Paul Warburg. It is also thought that the other main player in creating the Fed, JP Morgan's image was used to create the handle bar mustached character in the Monopoly game.

[VegasVic]

America's financial dominance is ending, warns Nouriel Roubini

He expects a global recession to last for at least two years and said the current crisis could lead to a "massive, ugly war."

LaoPo

Maybe Gold & silver is the wrong way to go?

Perhaps brass & lead is what I should stock up on

Or perhaps Urainium?

[VegasVic]

OK, whatever.

I found it a different look on things, and a real possibility.

Are you one of those people that also scream: You are a thruther!!!!! when someone asks questions that are not in line with what MSM tries to make you believe?

I am just trying to find different points of view and think about if it could be possible.

And this board is a perfect way to share info and help us all better to understand what the heck is going on.

Over to ground control

As an aside, many from the early part of of the 20th century believe that Big Daddy Warbucks of the comic strip Little Orphan Annie was patterned after the leading character in the design of the Federal Reserve, Paul Warburg. It is also thought that the other main player in creating the Fed, JP Morgan's image was used to create the handle bar mustached character in the Monopoly game.

I never realized that Pakboong, but now that you mention it that fellow with the handlebar moustache does look a lot like good old J.P.

[flying]

Or perhaps Urainium?

Noooo That is unobtanium in these parts

Back on topic I wonder why Roubini says it may end in a ugly war but then says nothing as to why he thinks so? Is he considered a sensationalist type?