Testosterone Supplements For Men

[Jingthing]

I recently tested on the low end of acceptable for testosterone levels. So now I am wondering if it is a good idea to start a supplement program (which is easy enough to find in Thailand). I have heard it will boost your libido but surely there must be other consequences/risks. Also, once you start I assume you are committing to it for the long term. This post was prompted by a snippet I just heard on tv that men with higher testosterone levels live longer, but I am not sure if the same benefit would be realized by people getting it by supplementation. So what are your thoughts on this testy topic?

[FBN]

Synthetic testosterone has been reported to cause enlargement of the prostate gland...

[wasabi]

I tried Andriol for a month and didn't notice much. A trip to Soi Cowboy seems to work better.

[Sheryl]

As FBN mentioned, need to be aware of risk to prostate.

In addition to benign enlargement, both synthetic and ntural testosterone may increase the rate of growth of prostate cancer so it needs to be exclyded in any one thinking of taking it.

Be sure to have prostate exam before taking testosterone supplements and annually thereafter. (Actually, advisable for all men over say 45...but especially important before messing aroubnd with hormone supplmentation)

[FBN]

Sheryl,

Interesting and very important point; the potential effect on prostate Ca. I have tried to verify this by doing a bit of research just before I posted but could not find any reliable references that confirms this.

Unfortunately, most of the info on the net on these hormone supplements are from performance and muscle enhancing sites which do not make for very reliable medical (evidence based) info.

[Mighty Mouse]

From my understanding of testosterone, it can be taken in capsule form or via injection. Many body builders inject.

There are always side effects. The most serious that I read about regarding the caps, is liver damage. This damage is apparently minimized or eliminated by going the injection route.

Other side effects in men are hair loss and shrinkage of the family jewels.

I'll be guided by what Sheryl has to say regarding these reported side effects.

The big question for anyone contemplating taking testosterone supplements would be whether the benefits outweigh the risks.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Mighty Mouse

[FBN]

http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaill...&sub_cat=57

The above link is fairly comprehensive and deals with most discussed above.

Prostate cancer: Testosterone (in any of the forms of administration) will not CAUSE prostate cancer but may enhance the growth of an existing or underlying cancer. Taking testosterone regularly will need adequate follow up. This will involve a blood test (PSA) as well as a manual prostate exam.

Note: These recommendations are for men over 40; the effects of excess testosterone in younger men with normal testosterone levels have not been fully studied yet.

Interesting subject; I think testosterone is used at least as much as the Viagra family for "recreational" uses rather than appropriate medical indications.

[RockerRoller]

http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaill...&sub_cat=57

The above link is fairly comprehensive and deals with most discussed above.

Prostate cancer: Testosterone (in any of the forms of administration) will not CAUSE prostate cancer but may enhance the growth of an existing or underlying cancer. Taking testosterone regularly will need adequate follow up. This will involve a blood test (PSA) as well as a manual prostate exam.

Note: These recommendations are for men over 40; the effects of excess testosterone in younger men with normal testosterone levels have not been fully studied yet.

Interesting subject; I think testosterone is used at least as much as the Viagra family for "recreational" uses rather than appropriate medical indications.

Some specialists say that taking Testosterone artificially would make your body produce less. If your body still produces decent amounts perhaps you do need to take any additional shots of it. It also depends on your age and your body. The older we get the less T our body produces generally so to speak. There are exceptions and variations.

On the other hand there are opinions that lifestyle also influences T’s production in our body. Too much stress rises cortisol levels which results in less T produced by the body.

In general (unless there is some medical condition) there are ways to boost T naturally – lift heavy weights at high intensity, lots of sex, join a fighting sport, drive fast, go hunting, etc, etc, - basically any high adrenalin activity that makes you feel like a man. Of course most of those activities are deemed as “politically or socially incorrect” in modern society.

For more on the subject you can read articles on www.t-nation.com or www.drberardi.com – look at articles section, Dr Berardi has a three parts article on T.

[Naam]

a friend of mine used Testosterone for a couple of years. now he saves a lot of money. no more haircuts because he prematurely balded

[Chris Lawrence]

The problem with testosterone is that it has been used extensively by body builders. Currently in Australia there is a trial for people that are suffering sleep apnea, testosterone, diet and exercise thru the Prince of Wales Hospital in Sydney. This was also previously used in trial in 1994 but I believe the doses were different (Dr A Ng was involved in these trials) Outcome was that it increased snoring.

Testosterone is currently being used in Australia to help with erectile dysfunctions. I think your levels need to be less than 12 (not sure of the correct way to say the measurement). Have a look at the andrologyaustralia web site. (Not saying OP that you still can't stand up and party)

Also on the same site http://www.andrologyaustralia.org/pageCont...LOWTESTOSTERONE look at this to see exactly what low testosterone can do.

I think one of the Bangkok hospitals will treat you if these are your symptoms. Another drug in this category is also DHEA

Another drug that is being used is human Growth Hormone. I understand this was the drug used in the 1980's to beat drug testing in sport. The difference with this drug and Testosterone is that you keep what you gain. I tried a vial from a doctor and had good result with it, particular with energy and concentration, sex was great too. I went back to the doctor but he was struck off for supplying HGH to body builders. The Doc was 45 but looked 35.

All these drugs have side effects. These drugs need to be taken under supervision of a GP or specialist.

Sheryl, I have read some recent literature that seems to say that Testosterone will not aggravate the prostate. If I see again will post back to you.

[geriatrickid]

Hormone therapy is intended for those people that have a medical requirement. Diminished testosterone levels that accompanies the normal aging process is not necessarily a bad thing. In healthy people. the body tries to strike a balance. Testosterone levels may fall simply because you don't need them sky high back when you were a kid. Higher levels for some people when they are elderly might just help speed their date for cremation down at the local wat. As we age, do we really all the extras a higher testosterone level gives us;

- Higher red blood cell count (all the better for have a stroke or other blood clot issue)

- Potential liver toxicity

-Lowers HDL while increasing LDL (Do you really need that spike in the bad cholesterol?)

- Unknown pre-existing medical conditions could result in unintended adverse reactions, or a genetic predisposition to a cancer may be triggered by an increased testosterone level.

If one thinks that taking testosterone will cure impotence or up the sex drive in the elderly, think again. ED is a warning sign of cardiovascular disease. Healthy fit non smoking males don't usually suffer from low libido or ED. Treat the underlying cause, not the symptom.

If you have seen an endocrinologist and he or she says you need it, then who am I to second guess it. If this recommendation comes from the usual trendy sources or an " I write scripts for baht" GP, then don't do it.

Edited September 24, 2008 by geriatrickid

[FBN]

a friend of mine used Testosterone for a couple of years. now he saves a lot of money. no more haircuts because he prematurely balded

.... but he had to spend it all on a bra, because he developed gynecomastia...

We should make a limerick of this one.. Anyone?

Edited September 24, 2008 by FBN

[sylviex]

a friend of mine used Testosterone for a couple of years. now he saves a lot of money. no more haircuts because he prematurely balded

.... but he had to spend it all on a bra, because he developed gynecomastia...

We should make a limerick of this one.. Anyone?

(feel free to improve on it)

An acquaintance of Naam's became testy

On observing he'd grown rather chesty

While the hair on his head

Had visibly fled

His thorax was bountifully balled.

[Naam]

An acquaintance of Naam's became testy

On observing he'd grown rather chesty

While the hair on his head

Had visibly fled

His thorax was bountifully balled.

brilliant! nothing to improve... except perhaps removing an apostrophe i will however refrain to let him know about the limerick as he has become very touchy about being bald although it suits him.

by the way, no such thing like growing boobs happened to him. i think it's lack of testosterone that causes boobs on elderly males.

[fm2002]

An acquaintance of Naam's became testy

On observing he'd grown rather chesty

While the hair on his head

Had visibly fled

His thorax was bountifully balled.

brilliant! nothing to improve... except perhaps removing an apostrophe i will however refrain to let him know about the limerick as he has become very touchy about being bald although it suits him.

by the way, no such thing like growing boobs happened to him. i think it's lack of testosterone that causes boobs on elderly males.

Edited September 24, 2008 by fm2002

[fm2002]

You need to do your homework before starting any HRT regime. A very good start is here:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/350/5/482

It should cover most of your concerns.

[sylviex]

except perhaps removing an apostrophe

Oops, yes !

And I think you are correct re the breast development, too.

[FBN]

except perhaps removing an apostrophe

Oops, yes !

And I think you are correct re the breast development, too.

Steroids and some of the Testosterone compounds are converted by the liver to estrogen ("aromatisation" process) resulting in male breast enlargement.. To counter this, an "anti-estrogen" (is taken with or after steroid use such as mesterolone (Proviron) which blocks this effect.

In fact, to get back to the original post by the OP, this may be the best form to take for low testosterone. Proviron has been used for treating depression, infertility and impotence in male patients with good results (in some cases); there are series that show no reasonable difference between placebos as well but these were for particularly high doses, apparently.

I do know of cases where the response to treatment of severe work related stress, reactive depression and all associated symptoms responded well to short time treatment with this drug which seemed more than a placebo effect. This has no liver toxicity as well but is not an anabolic steroid so it is not used for body building purposes.

Not sure if this is available in Thailand.

[tracer5050]

I have been using testosterone supplement for several years , I did notice that when i use it i lose weight , cant really tell much difference in the sexual department , but great for weight loss, in me anyway

[Trevor]

Those who are new are very strongly recommended to read “The Testosterone Syndrome” by Shippen.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...6072631-9454824

This is the ONLY book you will ever need to read on the subject.

It may take 9 months to a year. Remember to be patient as it probably took you years to get down to your low levels so don’t rush through allopathic drugs to boost them up again. Go natural.

Natural remedies that REALLY WORK

1. Tribulus Terrestris. 250mg 3 times a day. The reason for using this is because Tribulus increases your LH levels and as you know LH increases your T levels by sending a message to the Leydig cells to “get back to work” and produce more Testosterone.

2. Avena Sativa – sometimes known as wild oats. This helps to free up bound testosterone. That is it works by reducing the SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin).

The other product which frees up bound testosterone was Nettle from Holland & Barratt. The third product for freeing up bound Testosterone was Chrysin from the Life Extension Foundation. Also Myomin, a Chinese herbal preparation, is an aromatase inhibitor which increases free testosterone.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.html

Finally 1000mg of vitamin C daily will also free up bound Testosterone.

3. Zinc 50mg once a day in the morning with food. Zinc helps to increase plasma testosterone levels by inhibiting aromatisation of Testosterone into Estrogen ie. it stops your increased testosterone being converted into Estrogen.

4. For Men Only II. It contains a number of different ingredients like Saw Palmetto that boost male sexual performance.

5. In my cereal put pumpkin seeds as they are very high in zinc.

6. Another point to bear in mind is that if you have excess fat, it means that you will have excess aromatase enzyme. This enzyme converts testosterone to estrogen. So to stop this aromatisation or conversion you need to reduce your fat cells and thereby your aromatase levels to ensure all increased testosterone does not convert to estrogen. This means exercise.

7. Finally if you are exercising – do weights – particularly for the legs. T levels shoot up after working the quads – the thighs. It is the best exercise for increasing your T levels.

8. Apply 10-12 mg progesterone cream to the scrotal-perineal area daily. Helps prevent free testosterone being aromatised (tied-up uselessly to estrogens), improves bone health and has a calming effect.

I hope the above helps for those of you that wish to increase your T levels naturally. However before you start get your T levels, SHBG, LH, FSH, Estradiol levels checked so that 4-6 months later you can check how this program has helped you. Good luck – please stick to the program – it really does work for those in good health and without sexual-organ damage like vasectomy.

Bumrungrad charges B1310 for SHBG test and B650 for testosterone to give an idea of charges, plus doctors fee B600-1500.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Trevor

[CTM]

Once on hormone replacement therapy (HRT) it is basically for life. HRT levels won’t cause you to grow tits or any of the other anti-steroid hysteria fear mongering. Bodybuilders are using amount five, ten, twenty times HRT dosages and stacking with numerous other compounds. You won’t go bald unless already genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness either. Testosterone is taken by injection (weekly or bi-weekly) or a topical cream (daily).

Start with Trevor and RockerRoller’s advice. You don’t want to jump into the drug route if not necessary.

Get some exercise. Eliminate stress. Clean up you diet and especially eliminate xenoestrogens and “bad fats” and increase “healthy fats. (Dr John Berardi is a good place to start for advice. I think RR meant www.johnberardi.com. The other guy is a dentist.) Add testosterone boosters like Tribulus Terrestris one at a time to be able to test if really working for you. This means testosterone levels, free (bio available) testosterone levels, etc and mood.

Check your estrogen levels and other related hormonal levels as your low levels of testosterone could be caused by many things.

Get to reading as it is a complicated subject and everyone is different. Don’t expect much knowledge or help from “medical professionals” unless they have a specific interest in the area. Even with all the evidence that low testosterone levels are a serious health risk in males, most doctors won’t take it to be a problem or know how to help unless your testosterone production is near zero.

[docall18]

If your low it will badly affect your health by not supplementing. Check out these sites - anabolicminds.com, allthingsmale.com

[wpcoe]

When I was in my early 40's a doctor commented that my testosterone levels were that of a normal 75-year old, so he first tried injections, and when blood tests after a few injections didn't register an increase, he prescribed a testosterone gel. The gel was only available from a veterinary pharmacist, which I found bizarre.

Anyway, on my own, I increase the dosage by about 50%. Yes, I know, I know, not a wise thing to do. One of the possible side affects of testosterone therapy is acne, and I ended up with a whopper of a zit on my derriere which had to be carved out with a scalpel since it was deep enough to not reach the skin surface.

The scalpel procedure was done in Japan, with a very primitive medical society, and when the doctor started digging deeper than the local anaesthetic he injected, he kept right on going. He was scraping against un-deadened nerve endings and I was involuntarily screaming in pain.

That was the end of my experience with testosterone therapy. Proceed at your own risk. Living with a low libido is not necessarily so bad in comparison.

[Trevor]

Living with a low libido is not necessarily so bad in comparison.

great way of coping with thai inflation and adverse exchange rates.

by moderating interaction with the opposite sex.

[Bagwan]

Testosterone supplements? Do you really want to ride around town on a noisy, non-performing two wheeled contraption with handlebars measuring six feet and with the front wheel half a block in front of the frame, posing in a position reminiscent of a koala bear climbing a tree, sleeveless to show off your arms disfigured by a tattooist artists art and generally looking like a total prat? Up to you I suppose but do insulate yourself against the pitying looks from more sensible people.

I am more concerned with the apparent testosterone overloads that many Western women appear to suffer from. Thank God or Buddha that Thai ladies like being female.

[strawberry]

Hi All,

I have prostate cancer and here is my experience.

My doctor recomends castration, that is, get my nuts cut out. Which he urges me to do and will probably get this done this month.

I contacted a prostate cancer support group in Australia and at first they had not heard of this proceedure. But then they told me that this was stopped being practiced 10 years ago, and now it is common to take hormone injections 3 or 4 times a year. This stops the production of testosterone which cuts it 100%, but lengthens life 10 years.

In case you don't know testosterone feeds the cancer. Or so I'm told.

This is what I add up,from the info received. Hormone injections cost about 60000 to 100000 baht per year ( here in Thailand) and stops 100% of testosterone production which also results in changes in the body, enlarged tits etc. and a complete loss of libido. Talk from the support group mention pumps (yuk)

When I weigh all of this up with castration. The op can be performed in one day and home that night ,at a cost of about 10,000 baht.

This cuts out about 90% of testosterone and, my doctor tells me I will loose most of my libido but not all of it.

Getting this done will allow me to live another 10 years but only 5 if I leave things the way they are.

The cost of having my prostate removed is way out of my reach and probably be difficult to find someone in Thailand to do the op I'd probably have to go overseas to have it done. My doctor has offered to find an experienced surgeon in the UK to do it. But I need a lottery win.

I have an 11 yo daughter and I need another 10 years for her, I'm hoping that next year to send her to St. Josephs school in Nakhon Sawan and thats going to cost me 80 K per year. I can do all the things I want to do for her providing I get another 10 years.

After this month I'll change my name from strawberry to gelded.

Regards Joe

[Bagwan]

Hi All,

I have prostate cancer and here is my experience.

My doctor recomends castration, that is, get my nuts cut out. Which he urges me to do and will probably get this done this month.

I contacted a prostate cancer support group in Australia and at first they had not heard of this proceedure. But then they told me that this was stopped being practiced 10 years ago, and now it is common to take hormone injections 3 or 4 times a year. This stops the production of testosterone which cuts it 100%, but lengthens life 10 years.

In case you don't know testosterone feeds the cancer. Or so I'm told.

This is what I add up,from the info received. Hormone injections cost about 60000 to 100000 baht per year ( here in Thailand) and stops 100% of testosterone production which also results in changes in the body, enlarged tits etc. and a complete loss of libido. Talk from the support group mention pumps (yuk)

When I weigh all of this up with castration. The op can be performed in one day and home that night ,at a cost of about 10,000 baht.

This cuts out about 90% of testosterone and, my doctor tells me I will loose most of my libido but not all of it.

Getting this done will allow me to live another 10 years but only 5 if I leave things the way they are.

The cost of having my prostate removed is way out of my reach and probably be difficult to find someone in Thailand to do the op I'd probably have to go overseas to have it done. My doctor has offered to find an experienced surgeon in the UK to do it. But I need a lottery win.

I have an 11 yo daughter and I need another 10 years for her, I'm hoping that next year to send her to St. Josephs school in Nakhon Sawan and thats going to cost me 80 K per year. I can do all the things I want to do for her providing I get another 10 years.

After this month I'll change my name from strawberry to gelded.

Regards Joe

Commiserations Joe. May God walk with you. Google and discover the magical properties of pomegranate juice. Many medical eminences have noted that good results may be obtained by drinking a glass every day.

I discovered that my PSA was 14 over 10 years ago but a scan and biopsies showed that I was clear of any malignancy. Since then my PSA has varied between 13 and 15 when according to conventional wisdom it should be no higher than 4. I have trouble convincing Thai doctors that some peeps will be different, we are individuals after all not machines, and that 13-15 is MY norm. In any event the PSA test is very unreliable. Three months ago I mentioned to my general practitioner at Bumrungrad that I had had some discomfort just behind my naughty bits and she referred me to a Consultant Urologist. He laughed out loud when I told him that a doctor at one of the Pattaya hospitals had told me that it was due to having too much sex – and to stop masturbating. (In Pattaya? 555) The result of tests showed that the problem was BPH and, since in the majority of cases this is effectively controlled by medicine, nothing too much to worry about.

[CTM]

Strawberry and Bagwan,

Your posts really have nothing to do with the topic. You do realize that right?

And I'd rather be dead than chemically castrated but to each his own.

[Sheryl]

Strawberry: your post is indeed off topic. There have been other threads in this forum on cancer of the prostate which I suggest you search for and read.

I'm a bit confused by what you have posted as you talk first about castration and then removal of the prostate; these are different procedures and there are often alternatuives to complete removal of the prostate (e.g. partial prostatectomy, radium implants etc). All of these forms of treatment are available in Thailand.

I don't know anything about the qualifications of your present doctor but even if top notch suggest you get a second opnion on treatment options. There is a pinned notice with details of urologists who have treated other TV members for cancer of the prostate and been recommeneded by them.

[Hummin]

To those who is afraid of cancer, and drinking alchohol!

 

https://sperlingprostatecenter.com/worried-prostate-cancer-put-second-beer/

 

and if you choose to start with TRT, you should first look in to your eating, drinking and excorcising firstl before starting with TRT. Continue bad habits and think trt is the solution, is the wrong way.