World Markets Nosedive, Emergency Meeting Called By Thai Finance Minister

[kedawi]

Who cares. I moved here to avoid all that nonsense.

Unless you are an ostrich and can breath out of your arse, i think you'll find that sort of "nonsense" has a habit of following you around.

Edited September 30, 2008 by kedawi

[kedawi]

I wouldn't mind being a US congressman/senator at the moment.....turn the bill down....watch the market plunge, buy a load of stock, and then pass a similar bill in a month or so and watch the dough roll-in as prices bounce up again.

[dotcom]

That's totally cute.

The next time the Thai's step on their own d.icks we'll call it the "sticky rice crisis".

[marcortez]

As expected

but made worse because of Bush's incompetence leading up to it.

He values people LOYAL to him in ALL jobs around him,

more than he values COMPETENT people in positions around him.

He's really screwed the pooch this time. World wide cluster <deleted>.

And this from a registered republican,

unsuccessfully voting for common sense in the GOP during primaries.

I have been living this Bush nightmare for 9 years now,

wondering when the other 3 shoes would drop.

I no longer wonder. Just hope he gets jail time as a legacy.

Blaming Bush for everything is BS.

I suppose you blame him for the track hurricane Katrina took also?

The US Congress controls the finance system with various laws, rules and oversight.

Bush has nothing to do with the way the finance system functions

[BlackJack]

just USA flexing its musles once again

however its spread to EU and UK now

its an interesting exercise in seeing paper money (not gold) trails and where they end up

gold is real - and backs up the paper money promise notes - looks like the banks got caught out lending more paper than they had gold to support it

surely theres a law against that but hey they are banks and a law unto themselves

its a bit like musical chairs now - as when the music stops one bank is left with the debt - and now there is getting fewer chairs and faster music

theres more to come

but markets historically have always righted themselves

now there are some absolute bargains out there and the vultures are gathering

[drayon]

Australia has supposedly got the strictest Banking Regs , yet the ozzie Dollar has gone from 98c down to 80c in a few weeks , what gives??

The AUD was artificially inflated when it was 98c. Forecasters widely predicted earlier in the year (Jan/Feb) it would fall in Q3 08 back down to it's real value of 78-83c.

[sorensen]

Read more here: http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/

[phaethon]

Blaming Bush for everything is BS.

BS? - Bush Sense? Basically Sound? Bush Science..? IMWTK

Last time this happened the US started calling in debts from defeated countries opening the door for extremist nationalism.

On a totally unrelated topic... Today is the 70th anniversary of the Munich agreement

Edited September 30, 2008 by phaethon

[midas]

Blaming Bush for everything is BS.

I suppose you blame him for the track hurricane Katrina took also?

The US Congress controls the finance system with various laws, rules and oversight.

Bush has nothing to do with the way the finance system functions

Excuse me ............if you watch the news today you will see how

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has been acting over the

past few days and you will see this senior staff member may need to be

reminded of this

[jetjock]

While the US House of Representatives was voting down a 700 billion dollar bailout plan, the stock market took a one trillion dollar loss today. It was interesting to read that some of our TV members consider it just a lurch seeing one trillion dollars almost instantly vaporize. I do believe however that despite the ignorance of so many of our politicians, they are smart enough to realize that if they do not pass a revised bill before the end of the week, the US banking financial crisis and meltdown of the credit markets will have much worse things in store not only for the US but many other countries also.

[slim]

I am no Bushie ... but what about the leftie Muslim aspirant ?

Why do these discussions always attract imbecilic racists?

[IMA_FARANG]

And why the note of surprise and panic that is contained in the use of "Emergency"? Hundreds of finanial commentators have been predicting the US financial system getting itself into trouble for months now---or even years, in many cases---since spending US$800,000,000,000 more than its income each year was bound to get the US Government into financial difficulties. "As expected" would be nearer the mark.

Exactly. Anyone who has been paying attention has seen this coming for a long time. I would expect things to get much worse in the US actually, this is only the beginning. The US dollar is being held afloat by the Chinese and Japanese - once they finally realize the US is incapable of paying back its loans, the dollar will experience a total collapse.

European and Asian markets will struggle in the short term, but in the long term will benefit since they will no longer be wasting their own productivity to support the dying US economy. See "Crash Proof" by Peter Schiff.

I presume that your relative optimism about the EU and UK economy is due to two things:

1. A little gloating and "sour grapes" attutude because you are not from the U.S.

2. A lot of irrational belief that Europe is somehow seperate from the world financial system.

In fact I expect that the EU and the U.K. will suffer as much or possibly worse than the U.S. will.

Allow me to give you some excerpts from the financial news worldwidw>

1)The UK's Bradford & Bingley mortgage lender became the second British bank to be taken into public ownership as a consequence of the fallout from the credit crunch.

2)Troubled Dutch-Belgian insurance giant Fortis also received an €11.2 billion ($16.4 billion) lifeline to protect it from insolvency over the weekend from the governments of Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg.

Yes it will get better....but the problem will last for months not a few weeks (much less a few days). And Europe and the U.K will suffer as well. Only time will tell who comes out of this better...even if it is only slightly better.

Personally, I believe the most likely economy in Europe to collapse is Germany, with the U.K close behind. But I hope I'm wrong.

And, just for the record, not every American has been trumpeting the Bush administration line that "our economy is basically fundamentally sound". I have been saying since the 1980's that there was a fundamental problem with the U.S. economy and esecially it's need to have consumers spend more than they earned (i.e. credit cards). But I don't have any degree in Economics, or any PHD after my name. But in fact, since the 1970's (at least), through both Republican and Democratic administrations, the U.S. and the EU have been worshiping at the altar of the great god Capitalisim. Now the altar is falling and the financial bigwigs are all running away like the rats they are trying to abandon the sinking ship.

Oh well, I'll avoid the rant. No point to it anyhow.

But just to let everyone know...you laughed at me when I warned you....I was old fashioned and didn't understand the new economic realities....don't let me say I told you so but....I TOLD YOU SO.

As the Paul Simon song "Kodachrome" says

When I look back at all the Crap learned in High School

it's a wonder I can think at all.

But my life in education didn't hurt me none,

since I can read the writing on the wall.

[drayon]

As expected

but made worse because of Bush's incompetence leading up to it.

He values people LOYAL to him in ALL jobs around him,

more than he values COMPETENT people in positions around him.

He's really screwed the pooch this time. World wide cluster <deleted>.

And this from a registered republican,

unsuccessfully voting for common sense in the GOP during primaries.

I have been living this Bush nightmare for 9 years now,

wondering when the other 3 shoes would drop.

I no longer wonder. Just hope he gets jail time as a legacy.

Blaming Bush for everything is BS.

I suppose you blame him for the track hurricane Katrina took also?

The US Congress controls the finance system with various laws, rules and oversight.

Bush has nothing to do with the way the finance system functions

Actually Bush has MUCH to answer for. US Congress does NOT control the US finance system or the laws. The Federal Reserve controls the finance, inflation and the Laws pertaining to their control. Bush is nothing more than the Federal Reserve's proxy in order to convince congress to comply with the Fed's demands. When the demands are not met the Fed exerts significant pressure on the markets. The Federal Reserve recycles it's members into the democrats and republican congress. Mr Bush is subservient to the Fed's desires. Observe it has only been Bush who wants this legislation forced thru with no resistance. WHY?? Bush was supposed to over look and make sure the deregulation legislation of 2003 was adhered to. Instead he turned a blind eye and allowed extortionate dealings. So what happens here is the Govt and the Fed allows this behavior of the brokers going crazy looting the system, it crashes, the financiers and mortgage houses loose money, then the Fed comes in and buys up all these firms at a vastly smaller percentile of thir worth before the crash to bail out the Govt, while fleecing US people of their real estate. Check mate!!

The Federal Reserve is NOT federal it is a private bank of investor who print money based on nothing and control its supply. The Fed was responsible for the 1907, 1913, 1929 crashes, great depression etc etc. The Fed enslaves governments into huge amount of debt by loaning money to the government at interest, as was said the Fed supplies the money.

This has been coming for years but people have been so distracted with tv, paris hilton, sex and the city, football etc.

[KKK]

Well about time too....Get rid of all these non-productives playing this stupid game. Yesterday I was in the local office where farangs and thais alike play about with stocks and shares. All grim faces. One I spoke to and asked "what happens when you sell something and make a profit". He said "I pay a small unearned income tax on it." UNEARNED that about sums it up. You did nothing productive to earn that profit.

Send them all off on the Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy's "B" Ark.

Big pity is that this problem now will effect the truly working people (like me) who had nothing to do with it.

And as far as U.S.A. is concerned it's about time they got their cumuppance.

[Scott]

I was just thinking about moving somewhere that might not be affected by this situation, but I can't find a Cubavisa.com! But I am happy the anti Bushies/anti US/ Evil Empire folks now have some place to gloat--and of course blame when it does affect them even though they were much smarter than everyone else.

[dkstoney]

Viewpoints: Where now for capitalism?

Noam Chomsky

BBC News, September 19, 2008

Markets have inherent and well-known inefficiencies. One factor is failure to calculate the costs to those who do not participate in transactions. These "externalities" can be huge. That is particularly true for financial institutions.

Their task is to take risks, calculating potential costs for themselves. But they do not take into account the consequences of their losses for the economy as a whole.

Hence the financial market "underprices risk" and is "systematically inefficient," as John Eatwell and Lance Taylor wrote a decade ago, warning of the extreme dangers of financial liberalization and reviewing the substantial costs already incurred - and also proposing solutions, which have been ignored.

The threat became more severe when the Clinton administration repealed the Glass-Steagall act of 1933, thus freeing financial institutions "to innovate in the new economy," in Clinton's words -- and also "to self-destruct, taking down with them the general economy and international confidence in the US banking system," financial analyst Nomi Prins adds.

The unprecedented intervention of the Fed may be justified or not in narrow terms, but it reveals, once again, the profoundly undemocratic character of state capitalist institutions, designed in large measure to socialise cost and risk and privatize profit, without a public voice.

That is, of course, not limited to financial markets. The advanced economy as a whole relies heavily on the dynamic state sector, with much the same consequences with regard to risk, cost, profit, and decisions, crucial features of the economy and political system.

[Jingthing]

Read Pearlstein's column in today's Washington Post. This was about preventing a depression. And all the horrible things a depression means which apparently not enough people have a grasp of. Bernacke, the fed chairman, is a leading scholar of the depression and he wanted the bailout. And the fringe groups of America's left and right which because of the current leadership vacuum in the US constitute a majority of the US congress couldn't get their act together to go along. This is not good. The blame game is ridiculous at this stage: the house is on fire!

BTW, as an American, I apologize for my government. They have failed the entire world.

They Just Don't Get It

By Steven Pearlstein

Tuesday, September 30, 2008; Page D01

Oy vey.

That is the technical economic term that best sums up a day in which the House of Representatives refuses to pass a $700 billion rescue plan pushed by the White House and congressional leaders from both parties, Wachovia is taken over in a deal that will have the government potentially owning 10 percent of Citigroup, a few European banks fail, the Federal Reserve and other central banks are forced to inject an additional $300 billion into the global banking system, the Dow Jones industrial average plunges 778 points, and investors everywhere rush to the safety of gold and short-term Treasury bills.

The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand the seriousness of the situation.

Americans fail to understand that they are facing the real prospect of a decade of little or no economic growth because of the bursting of a credit bubble that they helped create and that now threatens to bring down the global financial system.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[dkstoney]

I am no Bushie ... but what about the leftie Muslim aspirant ?

Why do these discussions always attract imbecilic racists?

And exactly how is that statement racist? I could see if "aspirant" were followed by the word "coon", but since it's not I cannot concur with your less than astute analysis.

But on topic, "Are Bernanke and Paulson yelling 'Fire!' in moviehouse?"

[kenmackie]

I strongly suggest people watch this Presentation

Maybe the reason for the "Meltdown and Collapse" of Banks and Mortgage Companies

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html

[realbadgirl]

Big Mac Crisis ... LOL!

When we had this kind of Crisis, we called it Tom Yum Kung Crisis. In Italy, should be Pasta Crisis.

[nikster]

I am no Bushie ... but what about the leftie Muslim aspirant ?

Maybe you are a FOX-newsie? FOX watchers are the only people deluded enough to believe that Obama is a muslim. I am so sorry for you.

McCain has just made himself completely unelectable by selecting a country dunce as his vice, and at his age a vice is probably more important than ever. He's selected someone who makes herself sound like a complete idiot in every single interview.

Anyway... the USD is not about to crash - go to America to see why. Stuff is cheap there. Go to Europe to see why the EUR is overvalued - it's dam_n expensive. I am here now, and buying a small bag of living basics at the supermarket, like milk and bread costs EUR 30 every day. It's amazing. It's not just me, people making EUR complain the same.

As for the financial mess - if you are exposed to the stock market, wait it out. If you bought one of those funny mortgages, tough luck ("Wow I can refinance my house and get 2 brand new SUVs out of it!" No you can't.). I am opposed to any bail out and I am thankful to the republicans to have voted it down, even though of course they started this mess to begin with.

[astral]

Thank god the home and wife are paid for

Are wives every fully paid for??

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Viewpoints: Where now for capitalism?

Noam Chomsky

BBC News, September 19, 2008

The threat became more severe when the Clinton administration repealed the Glass-Steagall act of 1933, thus freeing financial institutions "to innovate in the new economy," in Clinton's words -- and also "to self-destruct, taking down with them the general economy and international confidence in the US banking system," financial analyst Nomi Prins adds.

At the time that was repealed there was a republican majority. So whose fault was it. According to many of the republicans Bush didn't cause any problems because it was a democratic majority. So you guys can't have it both ways, whose fault is it the presidents or the congress? I think there is plenty of blame tyo go around.

[astral]

Why if all countries are affected is it that the pound keeps falling against the Baht?

B&B hit the pound.

It also happened a week back when the Chancellor of the Exchequer said the economy was in a mess.

[chiang mai]

Why if all countries are affected is it that the pound keeps falling against the Baht?

The Pound/Baht exchange rate is influenced by the USD/Pound exchange rate since there is no real trade per se in GBP/THB. Over recent days GBP has dropped about 4 cents against USD hence GBP has dropped against THB.

[billdo2000]

I really don't see any reason to panic. The market goes down today, then it rebounds and stabilizes. This is what happens. Just watch it go back up again tomorrow.

Exactly. Once the US government announces an agreement on the rescue package, the market will rebound nicely.

However, these liquidity issues are not a short-term hiccup we are experiencing. The sub-prime mess is not over. I wish I could tell the future...

Cheers.

[anothertorres]

bring on the Amero...

[Marvo]

Why if all countries are affected is it that the pound keeps falling against the Baht?

The Pound/Baht exchange rate is influenced by the USD/Pound exchange rate since there is no real trade per se in GBP/THB. Over recent days GBP has dropped about 4 cents against USD hence GBP has dropped against THB.

In recent months I've seen times when the pound climbs against the dollar and the pound drops against the baht at the same time, leaving me scratching my head

Edit add: I'm always scratching my head. Like seeing the pound with the looming crisis rise to $1.84. Then with the possibility of a bailout the pound promptly drops to $1.80 and then the bill fails to be passed (i.e. - bigger crisis) and the rate doesn't move.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Marvo

[sangfroid]

I really don't see any reason to panic. The market goes down today, then it rebounds and stabilizes. This is what happens. Just watch it go back up again tomorrow.

Exactly. Once the US government announces an agreement on the rescue package, the market will rebound nicely.

However, these liquidity issues are not a short-term hiccup we are experiencing. The sub-prime mess is not over. I wish I could tell the future...

Cheers.

Warren Buffet, possibly the wisest and most successful investor in the world says that shares at these prices are ridiculously cheap and in a few years people will look back and realise what a great buying opportunity 2008 was. He also says he'll double his investment of $US5 billion in Goldman Sachs in 7 years.

[sangfroid]

One of my staff commented that if anything happens in the States, it'll be 10 years before it is felt in Thailand........oh dear! and this is Thai management in a company that EXPORTS to the States and relies on them for customers over here.