Do Thais Lack A Developed Ego?

[PAPA DUCK]

>> Adapt, overcome, improvise. I can't find anything at all conclsive that would indicate Thai people are any less inteligent than any other race of people.

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Adapt, adapt, adapt. So sensitive, so culturally sensitve. So pluralistic. Wow, how enlightented.

Take a glance at developmental psychology before coming back with your egalitarian multicultural stance. Development is not a dirty word.

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Pompous, Pompous, Pompous...if you are living in Thailand and looking down your nose at the Thai people, you're the one with developmental issues

[Falang Pan]

Pompous, Pompous, Pompous...if you are living in Thailand and looking down your nose at the Thai people, you're the one with developmental issues 

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You seem to be of the opinion that talking about group averages or statistics regarding groups of various levels of personal development of ego is equal to "looking down your nose". With that kind of attitude how can you truly learn about and love people in another culture?

Would I be looking down my nose if I posted statistics of the percentage of people at pre-conventional, conventional, and post conventional levels of development in my own culture? Would I be talking down my nose if I then tried to talk about how the group of pre-conventionals think, and the difficulties in communicating with them?

We aren't just all the same, you know.

Edited December 2, 2004 by Falang Pan

[meadish_sweetball]

I dont need a Weatherman to show which way the wind blows.

[Falang Pan]

Unless 'anybody' fully understand the Thai ego/s of an individual, group, or the whole nation... and I highly doubt that anybody does, even the Thais themselves... then who are we to judge, analyse, or conclude statistics?

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You mean to say that not even Thai's can meaningfully talk about Thai characteristics. And certainly no non-Thais can.

Do you really believe that? Or are you rather afraid of what would happen if Thais and non-Thais could make meaningful statements about their characteristics?

What % of people do you imagine fully understand themselves, let alone other people of their 'own' culture? What chance then, do people have of understanding or analysing a completely different culture?

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A minority of people are capable of thinking about thinking - ruling the rules - thinking in a rational way that examines the very rules of what is taken as truth. But some people are, and these elites disclose what we pass down to our children in our schools. Furthermore some people are capable of seeing that mere viewpoints are relative. Wow - what a jump! Furthermore, some smaller minority can see that relative viewpoints are not isolated, but related, and can see patterns and make judgments and valuations and rankings amongst the various relative viewpoints. Holy smokes - that is really incredible, indeed. Furthermore, some people begin to intuit a ground of love that permeates our interior knowing. Wow. Universal love. You see, there is a direction towards which we can grow - we aren't all merely stuck as babies.

> You know something... Life is a simple matter, made difficult by idiots.

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You know something, life is not simple. Idiots are simple.

> If you have a problem with one Thai woman, try another, and another... if after half a dozen or more you are still having problems... then analyse 'yourself'. 

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Thanks for the advice. Did it work for you? What did you learn from examining yourself? That you had problems adapting, and that you should aquiesce and fit in? I'm sure that helped. For me, I can not choose that path. I make a differentiation between selfish desire and self disclosed wisdom. We are all of us capable of seeing patterns and making choices.

> I am not a religious man by any stretch of the imagination, but I treasure the words attributed to JC. "Know thyself and to thine own self be true."

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If you jettison your intellect, how can you discern what is true or not true.

[Boon Mee]

I dont need a Weatherman to show which way the wind blows.

True enough but if you recall what happened to the "Weathermen" ala Bernadine Dorn etc., they didn't fare too well after the hippie era ended.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Falang Pan:

Your observations match mine.  I, too, have observed that Thai culture in general does not have much concept of self or integrity.  The lower classes of Thai culture have almost none.  Of course, there are rare exceptions.

Thank you for thinking and for writing as you did.

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There's more than one twit here then.

[cdnvic]

Falang Pan:

Your observations match mine.   I, too, have observed that Thai culture in general does not have much concept of self or integrity.  The lower classes of Thai culture have almost none.  Of course, there are rare exceptions.

Thank you for thinking and for writing as you did.

There's more than one twit here then.

Thats not how you spell &lt;deleted&gt; Dr Pong

cv

[Covertjay]

You know something, life is not simple. Idiots are simple.

QUOTE(Ravisher @ 2004-12-02 13:20:12)

> If you have a problem with one Thai woman, try another, and another... if after half a dozen or more you are still having problems... then analyse 'yourself'. 

Thanks for the advice. Did it work for you?

This is meant for general consumption and directed at anyone in particular.

Idiots are simple but here people can make life more difficult than it has to be. You have some agency in the direction and/or simplicity of your life.

.  I, too, have observed that Thai culture in general does not have much concept of self or integrity.  The lower classes of Thai culture have almost none.  Of course, there are rare exceptions

Well off Thais or those who still have the good values their parents gave them in the village before they came to BKK can have a nice humble version of integrity.

You have a point about the lower class BKK barrio Thais who have lost their original village values and feed negative jelious energy into everything. Many of my students parents are good people who stand by their word (ergo have integrity). They offer help should I ever need it 'cause they know the sketchy ones are out there, and they want you to like Thais and Thailand. These good people have restored my faith in Thais and my love of their country.

By about the 3rd Thai GF I had hit the right one. Nice middle class family, educated, financially independent, travelled and genuinely caring. The previous one's were nasty slum types who had no integrity SO I took control of my life and dumped them. I'm no Brad Pitt, but just like the green buses there was another one along directly.

Many expats in a rut need to take control, not only of the woman they are with, but the job and Thai friends they have. Then life here can be fantastic.

[meadish_sweetball]

I dont need a Weatherman to show which way the wind blows.

True enough but if you recall what happened to the "Weathermen" ala Bernadine Dorn etc., they didn't fare too well after the hippie era ended.

Yeah, well, they were complete nutters, hence the statement.

[Girlfrombar]

excuse me..............................

what 'ego' means?

once my classmate explained me

"let's compare..

id = h3ll

superego = heaven

so,

ego = middle of h3ll & heaven; => EARTH"

but it seems my understanding of 'ego' had lost somewhere between this first page of thread

and pls................

no psychological terms if possible.

Edited December 3, 2004 by Girlfrombar

[erasmus]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

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There is no relation in between ego and sincerity or integrity.

And if there was one, I would think that sincerity and integrity are inversely proportional to the ego.

The higher you ego is, the more your actions are directed at satisfying yourself up to a point, integrity and sincerity are secondary matters, you anyway "feel" you are sincere to yourself...

So, it is good news, Thai have no ego...

[jackr]

excuse me..............................

what 'ego' means?

once my classmate explained me

"let's compare..

id = h3ll

superego = heaven

so,

ego = middle of h3ll & heaven; => EARTH"

but it seems my understanding of 'ego' had lost somewhere between this first page of thread 

and pls................

no psychological terms if possible.

...

[et33.com]

mmm...

perhaps it all goes back deep into history

where the great buddha taught

about "self" and "no-self"

or the western call it "ego" or "no-ego"

so the teaching goes like this i think

that one must first understand his / her own-self

in order to become "no-self"

and i think the fellow has discovered that

the so call thai have a "no-self" altitude

but without the other half of buddha's teaching

to first investigate full their own "self"

does it make sense to anyone out there ???

mmm...

well / here my piece of bull@#$%^&

but i think some of you will understand...

surely not all are still sleeping

some would have awaken right ???

[Girlfrombar]

id = h3ll

superego = heaven

so,

ego = middle of h3ll & heaven; => EARTH"

OK.

my lost..

actually,

id = devil

superego = god

so

ego = middle of devil & god; => HUMAN.

ok...........

[davidjohn]

I do believe that Falang Pan is on to something here but the operative term is "western analytical reasoning".  Thai and farang do not think alike...period.

Simple example:  Emphasis Thais put on having "Fun" vs. the average farang work ethic.

As Boris said: "if you are looking for a serious or even semi serious response from this forum,forget it.

The topic does get a little deep for TV but it has it's merits.

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mY g/f chinese thai has a very strong work ethic, far stronger than mine.

Sorry my girlfriend amuses me but never gets her words mixed up or wrong pronounciation said.

Perhaps she is perfect?

[Boon Mee]

Western thought is what we Westerners understand because that has been the teaching of our ancestors. It is up front, straighforward, direct language. The Chinese and Asian thought process is different and for us, often sounds like a riddle. "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Asian thought provokes 'thinking'. Thinking leads to understanding. .

Actually, the philosophical question is: "If A Man Speaks Alone In The Forest And A Woman Is Not Around To Hear Him, Is He Still Wrong"!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Falang Pan:

Your observations match mine.   I, too, have observed that Thai culture in general does not have much concept of self or integrity.  The lower classes of Thai culture have almost none.  Of course, there are rare exceptions.

Thank you for thinking and for writing as you did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's more than one twit here then.

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Thats not how you spell &lt;deleted&gt; Dr Pong

cv

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I had another descriptive word in mind for 'em, but George would have edited it out and kicked my bum. Twits or &lt;deleted&gt; ... that's them

[Boon Mee]

Chauang Tzu said that one time dreamed he was a butterfy, on waking, he did not know if he was a butterfly dreaming he was a man or a man dreaming he was a butterfly. This provokes 'thinking' which in my opinion is always better than believing straightforward "facts" that are all too often 'not' facts.

I've done that as well a few times but usually after injesting some dynamite "Laguna Beach Sunshine"!

[Boon Mee]

Chauang Tzu said that one time dreamed he was a butterfy, on waking, he did not know if he was a butterfly dreaming he was a man or a man dreaming he was a butterfly. This provokes 'thinking' which in my opinion is always better than believing straightforward "facts" that are all too often 'not' facts.

I've done that as well a few times but usually after injesting some dynamite "Laguna Beach Sunshine"!

Ahhh ... but did it make you 'think'?

At the time it made me think too much!

Ahh...irresponsible youth.

[meadish_sweetball]

Western thought is what we Westerners understand because that has been the teaching of our ancestors. It is up front, straighforward, direct language. The Chinese and Asian thought process is different and for us, often sounds like a riddle. "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Asian thought provokes 'thinking'. Thinking leads to understanding. .

Actually, the philosophical question is: "If A Man Speaks Alone In The Forest And A Woman Is Not Around To Hear Him, Is He Still Wrong"!

I love it! :D

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Western thought is what we Westerners understand because that has been the teaching of our ancestors. It is up front, straighforward, direct language. The Chinese and Asian thought process is different and for us, often sounds like a riddle. "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Asian thought provokes 'thinking'. Thinking leads to understanding. .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, the philosophical question is: "If A Man Speaks Alone In The Forest And A Woman Is Not Around To Hear Him, Is He Still Wrong"!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love it! :D

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[Jai Dee]

Western thought is what we Westerners understand because that has been the teaching of our ancestors. It is up front, straighforward, direct language. The Chinese and Asian thought process is different and for us, often sounds like a riddle. "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Asian thought provokes 'thinking'. Thinking leads to understanding. .

Actually, the philosophical question is: "If A Man Speaks Alone In The Forest And A Woman Is Not Around To Hear Him, Is He Still Wrong"!

I love it! :D

Shhhh... are there any ladies listening?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Western thought is what we Westerners understand because that has been the teaching of our ancestors. It is up front, straighforward, direct language. The Chinese and Asian thought process is different and for us, often sounds like a riddle. "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Asian thought provokes 'thinking'. Thinking leads to understanding. .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, the philosophical question is: "If A Man Speaks Alone In The Forest And A Woman Is Not Around To Hear Him, Is He Still Wrong"!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love it! :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shhhh... are there any ladies listening?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have courage ... post it in the ladies forum

[kat]

Cute.

[Jai Dee]

Cute.

whoops... sprung!!!

[OlRedEyes]

What a revealing thread! Intellectuals, pseudo-intellectuals and "more Chang please!" It has it all!!

Kat, you &lt;deleted&gt; with my hormones

Someone here mentions he's a Casino Manager. Think i've seen that in a thread or 2, somewhere, before. Mensa nogal. Cool.

Have I anything constructive to say? No.

Hi all.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What a revealing thread! Intellectuals, pseudo-intellectuals and "more Chang please!" It has it all!!

Kat, you &lt;deleted&gt; with my hormones 

Someone here mentions he's a Casino Manager. Think i've seen that in a thread or 2, somewhere, before. Mensa nogal.  Cool.

Have I anything constructive to say? No.

Hi all.

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The intelligentsia joins ( and kinda contributes )

[bina]

"If A Man Speaks Alone In The Forest And A Woman Is Not Around To Hear Him, Is He Still Wrong"!

probably, but if there's no woman around, what is he doing exactly in the forest speaking to whom??? sounds like the men's version of 'housewife syndrome'

[Khun Larry]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I have never seen a more selfish, self centered culture.

Why do Thais spend 12 hours a day looking in the mirror? What is in there? Do tell

[Boon Mee]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

Personally, I have never seen a more selfish, self centered culture.

Why do Thais spend 12 hours a day looking in the mirror? What is in there? Do tell

You guys are both waaay off-base here.

It's like you're trying to compare western culture to Thai and that don't work...