Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[sriracha john]

As watch commander in a maximum security prison in US, I have been involved in numerous riots where chemical agents(tear gas etc.) were deployed. I can tell you with absolute certainty a tear gas grenade cannot blow your leg off. The explosive charge is only strong enough to disperse the agent, not tear off limbs.

Which specific tear gas ammo and specific weapons were used to fire them for your group?

Are they exactly the same as what Thai riot police used yesterday?

Do you you know what specific tear gas ammo and the specific weapons they use to fire them?

Do you know that differing tear gas ammo and the differing weapons used to fire them have differing capabilities?

I respect your position you had in the States. It is the same one as one of my closer friends has in the States.

*edit.

P.S.

Have you seen the photos posted earlier in the thread of the shotguns the police had yesterday?

If you put any number of differing ammo in one of those, could that take a leg off? A foot?

Edited October 8, 2008 by sriracha john

[jdinasia]

AlKing --- please contribute to the discussion or don't bother posting; there is also no need to fill your futile posts with quotes from other posts that just fill space and do not add to the discussion either.

jayJayJayJay ---- you'd divorce a politically savvy woman? That says a lot!

[h90]

if you have an explosive in your pocket it won't blow away your foot. As well some would have thrown to the police and harmed them.

There are rumors (of course without any hard proof) that the police had home made pingpong bombs (they call it that way because of their small size).

Here in Bangkok you get advised not to wear red, so you are not mistaken with Thaksin supporters.

A clear split in the society.

oops! I wore a red t-shirt today. Wasn't thinking about that. I better go home and change quick.

Is it also advised not to wear yellow?

The problem is if a green and a blue group comes we must go naked, because no colors left.

[BFD]

had them in their pockets? were their pants around their ankles? .... again get real!

You have honestly never heard of cargo pants? Those are the pants that have pocket down in the leg itself. Sometimes, they hang as low as the upper shin, which is where *gasp* the leg ends on some of these folks now.

BFD!

[clausewitz]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JI09Ae02.html

ATol: How much do your rallies cost per day?

Sondhi: One million baht [uS$29,000] inclusive, including everything, satellite time, staff.

ATol: Who gets compensated and who doesn't?

Sondhi: The volunteers don't get paid. Some of the personal security gets paid because they are the ex-policemen and ex-military. They are professionals.

I hope the PAD members who are doing the shooting are trying to avoid killing any police. They did say they try to stop short of lethal force and only leave their victims unable to walk. If they are giving guns and explosives to untrained PAD members it could get worse.

[AlKing]

<br />

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.<br />I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.<br />I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

<br /><br />I'm not supporting the current government in any way, I'm just trying to point out that the PAD isn't any better, and in this exchange of words, I'm just trying to point out, that foreigners who are opposed to PAD, might not be paid to do so, but might have some valid concerns for doing so. And it certainly doesn't equal support for the current government.<br />

<br />The purpose of the PAD is to oust the government, nothing more nothing less. Everything else are thoughts, dreams on what to do than.<br />The PAD contains a spectrum from ultra left till ultra right. The only thing the share together is the will to oust the government. If you want to get rid of the government you must go to the PAD. No matter if you love or hate Sondhi. As he knows that he promised not to go in politics.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

The purpose of PAD is to take matter in their own hand and act what they think is right. Common, we are living in an organised country with law and order. PAD is still thinking that we are in the stone age.

[jdinasia]

had them in their pockets? were their pants around their ankles? .... again get real!

You have honestly never heard of cargo pants? Those are the pants that have pocket down in the leg itself. Sometimes, they hang as low as the upper shin, which is where *gasp* the leg ends on some of these folks now.

BFD!

I guess you need to go back and look at the pictures

[sylviex]

A military forensic source said a man who lost a leg had it blown off by a ping-pong bomb in his pocket.

BKK Post

What's a ping-pong bomb ?

[Smithson]

The poor have nothing to do with this battle, no one is fighting them, and that's perhaps the reason they keep quiet about it. They don't really care, it's not their war.

This is what makes the whole thing ridiculous on both. It's supposed to be about democracy the poor are completely ignored, yet the make up the majority of the population. Unions are heavily involved, but if they don't represent the workers who is pulling their strings?

Same old story of the pigs fighting at the trough.

[jayjayjayjay]

Sooner or later something was bound to give as the current situation cannot continue infinitum.

While i have sympathy for the PAD and their supporters I don't believe they have the moral right on their side.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

If it requires buying votes in rural areas so be it.

Thailand has its own unique version of democracy and the PAD need to work with the system they have and fgure how best to gain control of the powers of government.

You may not have noticed ... but PAD is not a political party

I once posted, PAD should have a policy! Well they came up with some, and we know how they appear in terms of allowing continued democratic rule. What PAD is now a master of doing, is changing it's spots ever F***kin' day. The whole thing has turned into the Sonthi L show to ensure any resemblance of an upcountry backed government never be in power, thus leaving us with a wishy washy administration backed by the royalist elite........... yeah, great! Sufficiency Governence Anyone!

If and when the masses of country people decide enough is enough, watch out Bangkok. Fortunately, they still have enough respect for the fellow Thai's to respect their opinions and not try to forcably attack PAD. Will it come, I believe so, coz PAD knows no boudaries at this point!

jdasia- no I would divorce a woman who could not see through the BS of an egotistical megalomaniac

Edited October 8, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[AlKing]

<br />

A military forensic source said a man who lost a leg had it blown off by a ping-pong bomb in his pocket.

<br /><br />BKK Post<br /><br />What's a ping-pong bomb ?<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Try Google. If you cannot find, try asking the bg in Nana, Cowboy, PatP, Pattaya S or Patong.

[mdechgan]

had them in their pockets? were their pants around their ankles? .... again get real!

You have honestly never heard of cargo pants? Those are the pants that have pocket down in the leg itself. Sometimes, they hang as low as the upper shin, which is where *gasp* the leg ends on some of these folks now.

BFD!

I don't see his pocket is anywhere near his wound.

[jdinasia]

had them in their pockets? were their pants around their ankles? .... again get real!

You have honestly never heard of cargo pants? Those are the pants that have pocket down in the leg itself. Sometimes, they hang as low as the upper shin, which is where *gasp* the leg ends on some of these folks now.

BFD!

I don't see his pocket is anywhere near his wound.

and those are blue-jeans he is wearing .... the utter ignorance posted sometimes just makes me gag!

[BFD]

Sorry, my bad. Didn't do my research.

BFD!

[sriracha john]

What's a ping-pong bomb ?

Perhaps our esteemed Dr. Pat Pong would like to field this one?

[jdinasia]

The attempt (with no evidence) to call the wounded, victims of self-inflicted wounds is a nasty tactic.

[sjaak327]

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.

I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.

I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

I'm not supporting the current government in any way, I'm just trying to point out that the PAD isn't any better, and in this exchange of words, I'm just trying to point out, that foreigners who are opposed to PAD, might not be paid to do so, but might have some valid concerns for doing so. And it certainly doesn't equal support for the current government.

The purpose of the PAD is to oust the government, nothing more nothing less. Everything else are thoughts, dreams on what to do than.

The PAD contains a spectrum from ultra left till ultra right. The only thing the share together is the will to oust the government. If you want to get rid of the government you must go to the PAD. No matter if you love or hate Sondhi. As he knows that he promised not to go in politics.

I prefer democratic means to get rid of a government, that's not what the PAD is doing, as such I cannot support them.

[coalminer]

No matter if you love or hate Sondhi. As he knows that he promised not to go in politics.

Damned, I have forgotten the name of a Thai politician who said several times that "he would not go in politics anymore".

His name started with TH .. and ended with .... IN.

[sriracha john]

No pockets near the wound on this one either.

[sylviex]

Among the wounded police officers, two were stabbed. One, Pol Snr Sgt-Maj Thaweep Klanniam, was struck with the sharpened end of a flag pole in the torso. The pole severed his lung.

Four other police officers were shot by PAD supporters, deputy Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano said. One was shot in his chest, one in the collarbone, one in the neck and the other in his right hand. They were rushed to Vajira and Chulalongkorn hospitals.

Another policeman suffered broken legs after being hit by a car driven by a PAD supporter.

BKK Post

These would seem to be nasty tactics, too.

[jackyseymour]

It's simple really: If you live in a country and consider it home, you pay taxes - directly or indirectly - and participate in it in any way, then you have the right to an opinion.

Which when you look at it closely is the reverse of the PAD position - PAD wants to have MPs appointed, not democratically elected, hence the misnomer of its name, but I digress...

I am a New Zealander and live in Australia. I have lived here six years (and am married to a Thai) but I do not have the right to vote in Australia. Fortunately, people with the views of one or two of the contributors quoted above are few and far between here and I am entitled to comment on political or any other event, as one would expect in an open democracy. In time I will gain citizenship and vote as well.

I'm frankly astonished that anyone should suggest if you don't have a vote you're not entitled to an opinion! (However I have been heard to say here 'If you have the right to vote and you don't you're not exactly qualified to criticise the collective decision of those who did - I trust that doesn't sound too contradictory!).

I don't know how often this lies get posted again and again. PAD told again and again that they don't want any not elected MP. They made twice an official statement which was at the TOC webpage, but now there is no link there. There they told clearly that also these "appointed" MPs are not appointed they are elected within their society. For example the Isaan Rice Farmer elect an MP out of themself who takes care of their interests/needs.

So you have general election and you have election inside specific groups. And that was just an idea to discuss about.

I would be very interested to learn more about that - I am not spreading 'lies' intentionally but there was widespread reporting of that issue at the time. It's curious the information has disappeared from the record - if anyone knows of an English language explanation of PAD's electoral policy I'd be very interested in reading it.

It is my understanding that a large proportion of the populace believes PAD only wants a proportion of politicians elected. I'd be delighted - and somewhat relieved - to stand corrected. End Quote.

Yes you are entitled to comment 'on a political event', but only of course if you understand it. Your requesting access to an 'English language explanation of PAD's proposed electoral policy, shows you clearly don't. And are just adopting the knee jerk Colonel Blimp/Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells position as every other armchair pundit on this forum. Rather akin to the mentally challenged in Western democracies being excluded from the voting process. They are unable to comprehend enough about the issues on which to vote. Why do you and the others on this forum feel it perfectly within their 'rights' to comment/hurl abuse at something they haven't taken the trouble to educate yourselves about. Do you see the connection? And some of you call the PAD 'sheep'. Baa!

Edited October 8, 2008 by jackyseymour

[animatic]

Well having seen first hand a poor guy who's knee and leg

were shattered and cut off with ONE 3" 20 gauge shotgun slug,

I saw it before and right after...

I think I can look at the pictures and say this doesn't look like rubber bullits to me.

Maybe the police were using rubber bullits or rock salt,

but I doubt they would be taking a knife to a gun fight.

It also doesn't mean that a third party wanting to stir the pot ,

isn't taking an occasional pot shot, sniper style from another vantage point,

to make the situation spin out of control...

Shot guns leave little ballistic evidence even with slugs.

Gun powder residue and that's about it unless a particular barrel is scored.

No balistic evidence yet you know the gauge and length of the shell.

By the way I have trouble imagining the use of a 20 guage shotgun for crowd control, that's a girls gun.

And I don't think they have 3" shells for the 20 guage. And why would you need 3 inch shells?

Cunuckamuck

1 ) I didn't say it what I withnessed was in Thailand or even in the last 15 years.

Let alone yesterday.

2 ) In New Hampshire you can get long slug for 20 gauge. Though more common for 12g.

20 gauge is a fine gun for skeet with pellets. More accurate than a 12.

12 gauge is more of mans gun for sure,

but less accurate, not that you need to be with most shot.

Slugs you need to be, but still close, compared to a Mini-M14 for instance.

3 ) why does ANYONE want slugs, cause the rip the shit out anything they hit.

4 ) shot guns have no rifling. Basically scatter guns with most common shot.

So leave few ballistic traces with slugs unless the barrel is damaged.

and effectively none with pellet or salt or likely rubber.

I never said leaves no forensic traces.

5 ) 20 guage would be a much better crowd control gun

for rubber bullets with a lowered charge behind them.

One must ask if they were firing rubber bullits,

why have none been found and show on TV?

[mdechgan]

No matter if you love or hate Sondhi. As he knows that he promised not to go in politics.

Damned, I have forgotten the name of a Thai politician who said several times that "he would not go in politics anymore".

His name started with TH .. and ended with .... IN.

This guy also proves that you don't have to be in politics to control and influence people and policies in Thailand.

[jdinasia]

I prefer democratic means to get rid of a government, that's not what the PAD is doing, as such I cannot support them.

Democratic means to get rid of a non-democratic government?

[jackyseymour]

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.

I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.

I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

I'm not supporting the current government in any way, I'm just trying to point out that the PAD isn't any better, and in this exchange of words, I'm just trying to point out, that foreigners who are opposed to PAD, might not be paid to do so, but might have some valid concerns for doing so. And it certainly doesn't equal support for the current government.

The purpose of the PAD is to oust the government, nothing more nothing less. Everything else are thoughts, dreams on what to do than.

The PAD contains a spectrum from ultra left till ultra right. The only thing the share together is the will to oust the government. If you want to get rid of the government you must go to the PAD. No matter if you love or hate Sondhi. As he knows that he promised not to go in politics.

I prefer democratic means to get rid of a government, that's not what the PAD is doing, as such I cannot support them.

Your understanding of 'democratic' is severely lacking.

[jdinasia]

No matter if you love or hate Sondhi. As he knows that he promised not to go in politics.

Damned, I have forgotten the name of a Thai politician who said several times that "he would not go in politics anymore".

His name started with TH .. and ended with .... IN.

This guy also proves that you don't have to be in politics to control and influence people and policies in Thailand.

You mean that having access to non-government controlled media allows a member of society to voice an opinion and thus influence people and policy? As far as control .... I see no control. I do see influence and that is not a bad thing at all!

Aren't all people able to influence people and policies if they try?

[sjaak327]

I prefer democratic means to get rid of a government, that's not what the PAD is doing, as such I cannot support them.

Democratic means to get rid of a non-democratic government?

Until a court of law will come up with a verdict to punish the PPP for vote buying, this is a democratically elected government.

[mdechgan]

Among the wounded police officers, two were stabbed. One, Pol Snr Sgt-Maj Thaweep Klanniam, was struck with the sharpened end of a flag pole in the torso. The pole severed his lung.

Four other police officers were shot by PAD supporters, deputy Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano said. One was shot in his chest, one in the collarbone, one in the neck and the other in his right hand. They were rushed to Vajira and Chulalongkorn hospitals.

Another policeman suffered broken legs after being hit by a car driven by a PAD supporter.

BKK Post

These would seem to be nasty tactics, too.

Well I know many people that would like to or have and urge to run over crooked cops with a pickup or atleast stabbed them.

I mean hey if some rich kid driving a benz could run over a crowd and not get charged why not use a pickup truck to defend yourself?

Edited October 8, 2008 by mdechgan

[BFD]

No pockets near the wound on this one either.

Uh... I'm not sure if you want a written apology. Oh wait, that's what I already gave you...

BFD!

[jdinasia]

I prefer democratic means to get rid of a government, that's not what the PAD is doing, as such I cannot support them.

Democratic means to get rid of a non-democratic government?

Until a court of law will come up with a verdict to punish the PPP for vote buying, this is a democratically elected government.

No, it does not mean that at all The court has already ruled on electoral fraud. The next court has not decided the punishment yet.

If you buy a single vote ... just ONE vote ... then you are not morally able to call yourself democratically elected.