Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[Samuian]

This is a revolution, people are rising against the government.

When that happens, it's the government's fault, not people's.

What do we normally do in the world if the lines are so sharply drawn up that no middle-ground can be found, we turn to the international organisations for unbiased evaluation of the situation, and as regards to Thailand here goes.

The present Government coalition is considered legal and democratic. All discussions about the election result is thus a complete waste of breath and time, you got to move on!

No matter how many times a single person/minority screams and claims otherwise that fact is not going to change, any action taken by that single person/minority to overthrow the internationally recognised legal Government would internationally be considered illegal, yes and it's illegal rigging of these elections which have brought them to power, procedure to ban the PPP which formed a coalition to form the government with many other politicians which are supposed to be proxies and known to line their pockets for years are all completely legal by international standards - are they? and they would if they gained power have no legitimacy to negotiate anywhere and be subject to embargo's pressure on trade aso. aso. as was the former military dictators here in Thailand.

In other words to attain power there is only one legitimate way forward, that is to convince enough people to vote for your views at the next election, and by utilising internationally recognised legal means to achieve that goal.

Yes Sir, exactly because it is understood that this can't be achieved by normal means, the PAD has reemerged again for the "last war"! A "final stand off" against an Oligarchy which has managed to haunt the politics of this country again and again, but found it's very peak in the formation of the TRT headed by a man who declared himself the chairman CEO of Thailand Incorp. This man declared he would be running this Country from then on like a Company! - so then some people woke up when he, after changing a few laws, the constitution to suit his envisioned deals, he managed to get massive concessions, due to manipulations of the system, tripled his family fortune in the time of his short legislature, tax evasion on a massive scale, name it, but the lid blew off when he sold a large chunk of "his" telecom-stocks to a foreign company, the Themasek deal...

According to the BBC news last night things went down as follows:

"The PAD supporters left Government house which they occupy illegal according to numerous court orders, they had anyway been allowed to stay if it is considered illegal, and there have been court orders why were the protesters "allowed" ot stay? Why? there and negotiations was under way with the Government. Despite the fact that the Government was seeking a negotiated solution Well, it never happened, Chavalit said it himself, the negotiations cannot take place because two of the core leaders had been arrested the PAD seeking renewed confrontations left Government house to further stop or interrupt the normal functions of the legal Government thus provoking the inevitable clashes with the Police." Clearly the police has to be blamed for the escalations, or who ever ordered this nightmare to take stage. Till the police moved in at 06:00 yesterday morning there was no "civil unrest" it happened after the teargas had been fired DIRECTLY at the crowds, causing heavy injuries! And when things escalated, the crowd saw 3 of the protesters had blown off limbs.... what this reporter, Journalist believes will happen to a protesting crowd under pressure from government forces they won to step down and dissolve anyway?

If they had protested peacefully by showing signs shouting aso well quite funny, till then, they did, din't they?, but moved aside when asked by the Police no confrontations would have taken place, but they refused to move aside thus loosing all legitimacy, the Police as clearly shown on television had to move forward in riot control formations to disperse the PAD supporters and clear the access to Parliament house.

The Police did consequently not start this confrontation for Arguments sake, they DID! the PAD did by moving to new positions during the night.

By refusing to disperse they forced a violent confrontation with the Police for long I haven't read something more biased then this recently! "The protesters forced the police"? who are charged with the responsibility to protect and facilitate society's normal functions.

Therefore the PAD are solely responsible for any and all injuries to persons during these clashes. Because no one would have been hurt if the PAD had stayed at their (Illegal) rally in Government house.

That is exactly what they did, they didn't want to have the parliament, have a session in parliament housewhich the supporters of PAD see as a proxie government set up by a criminal fugitive hiding in London where he just happened to file for political asylum the day before - funny huh - NO coincidence here?

In my post here it is not my subjective assessment that decides what is illegal or not contrary to your posts Plus, but taken from the decisions by International Organisations and Court decisions here in Thailand, the same Courts you love when they put out arrest warrants for all the people you don't agree with, and the same Courts that dispose of PM's when they dare to cook up a little dish. it was NOT About "cooking up a little" dish, doing this he clearly had violated the charter, considered minor or not - it was meant to make a point in a long history of politicians knowingly abusing the law and the charter! And these courts should have insisted that the Government House gets cleared by the police the very day they issued the court order, no, yes? Can see a long arm in there? No, yes? And the same Courts that dissolve political party's with millions of supporters based on the wrong doing from only a handful, all actions you have been ardent supporter of here on TV.

Who are these "millions of supporters" and where are they now to support "their beloved, legaly and democratically elected government? Where are they? If not simply a cross on a bought voting paper....!!!!!

So larvidchr, please try to show a little consistency, continue to support your Oligarchs robbing the country and causing all this mayhem!

Why were the protesters "allowed" to stay such a long time and set up barbed wire and tire barricades in the first place?

It looks to me very much like a set up, like they have been lured into the believe that everything is calm and quiet, that they can sit this "thing" out and then yesterday morning surprise attack - without pre warning police moves in, in force, riot gear and is firing tear gas grenades AT the crowds, ambush.... the rest is sad, sad history....

my condolences to the people who lost a loved one and to those injured...!

Why was Don Muang considered to be a "emergency government house"

Edited October 8, 2008 by Samuian

[steveromagnino]

I'm just being realistic and you can't tell me that if you have a 9-to-5 job (or whatever working hours), you can spend weeks protesting on the streets. The guy that they showed on the video on CNN that was leading the protesters hasn't washed himself for the past 4 weeks and didn't even wear shoes. That says something.

Many of my friends and people I work with go to work and then head down to support the PAD regularly.

Would you like to tell the people earning 100,000b+ a month of this group that what they earn money for is not a job?

[sjaak327]

I think I will stop reading this topic now. Just wondering, what makes many foreigners think, that PAD is the evil? Maybe many mates are married to Girls from the NE, but does this automatically mean to lose one's brain?

Sorry, I cannot understand it.

That are paid poster. hired, From all the foreigners I know, every single one is pro PAD.

I know I'm probably wasting my time, but for my understanding, I will try to summarize some of your postings:

1 The current government (Not only PPP but other parties) have been risen to power due to massive vote buying, something that incidentially hasn't been proven yet in a court of law, but of course that's of no consequence, therefore PAD actions are heroic and patriotic.

2 All claims that people are gettng paid to participate in the PAD demonstrations are false.

3 Foreigners that oppose the PAD are paid to do so.

Can you please give me a few pointers as to how to contact the people that are paying foreigners to do so, I would be happy to post endless anti PAD drivel, if I would get a nice amount of money to do so.

Thanks in advance.

[AlKing]

Perhaps a solution to the problem is to give the protesters a job, then they wouldn't be able to sit on the streets all day and night, if they had to wake up at 6am to go to work.

Oh no, please tell me - You're and English Sun Reader. Aren't you

I'm not English, sorry. Not even British. I've been to England 3 or 4 times in my life, though ..for about a week the longest. Does that count?

I'm just being realistic and you can't tell me that if you have a 9-to-5 job (or whatever working hours), you can spend weeks protesting on the streets. The guy that they showed on the video on CNN that was leading the protesters hasn't washed himself for the past 4 weeks and didn't even wear shoes. That says something.

Yes. It says "STINK"

[sriracha john]

Not sure if he had to climb over any fences while fleeing today like he did yesterday, but....

Thai PM Tries To Reassure Foreign Allies Over Unrest, Clashes

BANGKOK (AFP)--Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat met foreign ambassadors on Wednesday to try and calm fears of further unrest, the government said.

The meeting, however, had to be cut short after rumors circulated that anti-government protesters were marching on the foreign ministry, prompting the ambassadors and Somchai to leave the building.

The newly appointed premier told 67 ambassadors that his government would adhere to international law, a day after police pelted thousands of rowdy protesters with tear gas in unrest that left two dead and hundreds injured.

"Our police forces have acted under the framework of the law," he said, according to a copy of his speech released to media.

"We will resolve the domestic problems through the democratic process.... Thailand is a resilient society and has been able to weather political storms in the past with great strength," he told the diplomats.

"Thailand continues to respect all its existing commitments and obligations under international law," Somchai added.

He also tried to ease concerns about the economy, telling the diplomats that foreign investment was still safe in the kingdom.

A planned reception for the ambassadors was called off amid concerns that thousands of protesters were on the way. Only a handful eventually turned up.

Somchai then headed to a hospital to visit police who were injured on Tuesday.

The clashes outside parliament capped months of political unrest, with the People's Alliance for Democracy protest group taking to the streets since May to try and unseat the government.

They claim the administration is acting as a puppet for ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra and also object to plans to amend the constitution.

- AFP / 2008-10-08

[h90]

I think I will stop reading this topic now. Just wondering, what makes many foreigners think, that PAD is the evil? Maybe many mates are married to Girls from the NE, but does this automatically mean to lose one's brain?

Sorry, I cannot understand it.

That are paid poster. hired, From all the foreigners I know, every single one is pro PAD.

I know I'm probably wasting my time, but for my understanding, I will try to summarize some of your postings:

1 The current government (Not only PPP but other parties) have been risen to power due to massive vote buying, something that incidentially hasn't been proven yet in a court of law, but of course that's of no consequence, therefore PAD actions are heroic and patriotic.

2 All claims that people are gettng paid to participate in the PAD demonstrations are false.

3 Foreigners that oppose the PAD are paid to do so.

Can you please give me a few pointers as to how to contact the people that are paying foreigners to do so, I would be happy to post endless anti PAD drivel, if I would get a nice amount of money to do so.

Thanks in advance.

Check out the old Samak thread....There was a link to an offer "work at home, Computer and good english required" But the offer disappeared within short time. But can be found there. There are some user who told that they got contacted, sure they have the contactinformations as well there is an office in Hongkong. With some time+google you should be able to find it. I got told it is the same company who did the anti-china postings at the tibet demonstrations.

Thats an official well known kind of business. As well pro/contra McCain/Obama or at any other election in every country.

[Tolley]

Sooner or later something was bound to give as the current situation cannot continue infinitum.

While i have sympathy for the PAD and their supporters I don't believe they have the moral right on their side.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

If it requires buying votes in rural areas so be it.

Thailand has its own unique version of democracy and the PAD need to work with the system they have and fgure how best to gain control of the powers of government.

[AlKing]

A THAI flight denies PPP MP

A People Power Party MP was denied boarding a THAI flight from Bangkok to Khon Kaen on Wednesday morning.

Farida Sulaiman, an MP of Surin province, was about to board TG 1040 flight which was scheduled to leave Bangkok at about 6.15am.

Manager newspaper online reported that captain of the flight, whose name is not revealed, came out of the cockpit and announced that his flight will not allow any PPP MPs or any politicians who harm people to board.

Farida reportedly wore a jacket which has PPP logo and name on the back.

Upon learning the captain's announcement, Farida agreed to board another flight.

- The Nation / 2008-10-08

i wonder what his bosses have to say about losing them profit...

he'll probably be applying at garuda soon....

Or getting a raise / commendation. IIRC, THAI airways was supporting the PAD and threatening to strike during the Samak controversy.

I have suggested before, and I will continue to suggest again. Shut down Swampy and all airports in Thailand. That way, I have an excuses to over stay in the "Land of Smile" with my gf (the bg, not the bather).

[jdinasia]

Sooner or later something was bound to give as the current situation cannot continue infinitum.

While i have sympathy for the PAD and their supporters I don't believe they have the moral right on their side.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

If it requires buying votes in rural areas so be it.

Thailand has its own unique version of democracy and the PAD need to work with the system they have and fgure how best to gain control of the powers of government.

You may not have noticed ... but PAD is not a political party

[sjaak327]

I think I will stop reading this topic now. Just wondering, what makes many foreigners think, that PAD is the evil? Maybe many mates are married to Girls from the NE, but does this automatically mean to lose one's brain?

Sorry, I cannot understand it.

That are paid poster. hired, From all the foreigners I know, every single one is pro PAD.

I know I'm probably wasting my time, but for my understanding, I will try to summarize some of your postings:

1 The current government (Not only PPP but other parties) have been risen to power due to massive vote buying, something that incidentially hasn't been proven yet in a court of law, but of course that's of no consequence, therefore PAD actions are heroic and patriotic.

2 All claims that people are gettng paid to participate in the PAD demonstrations are false.

3 Foreigners that oppose the PAD are paid to do so.

Can you please give me a few pointers as to how to contact the people that are paying foreigners to do so, I would be happy to post endless anti PAD drivel, if I would get a nice amount of money to do so.

Thanks in advance.

Check out the old Samak thread....There was a link to an offer "work at home, Computer and good english required" But the offer disappeared within short time. But can be found there. There are some user who told that they got contacted, sure they have the contactinformations as well there is an office in Hongkong. With some time+google you should be able to find it. I got told it is the same company who did the anti-china postings at the tibet demonstrations.

Thats an official well known kind of business. As well pro/contra McCain/Obama or at any other election in every country.

Thanks, I was not claiming such a thing didn't exist by the way, just pointing out remarks like from H90, where he claims that foreigners opposed to PAD must be paid as he only knows foreigners that are pro pad are a tad out of touch with reality, I for one, don't receive a penny for posting here.

[cmsally]

Sooner or later something was bound to give as the current situation cannot continue infinitum.

While i have sympathy for the PAD and their supporters I don't believe they have the moral right on their side.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

If it requires buying votes in rural areas so be it.

Thailand has its own unique version of democracy and the PAD need to work with the system they have and fgure how best to gain control of the powers of government.

You may not have noticed ... but PAD is not a political party

It really depends on your definition of political party. If you are taking the more technical, institutional definitions then maybe not. But there are also definitions based on ideology and perceptions of national interest and these definitions would definitely class the the PAD as a political movement or party.

[h90]

I think I will stop reading this topic now. Just wondering, what makes many foreigners think, that PAD is the evil? Maybe many mates are married to Girls from the NE, but does this automatically mean to lose one's brain?

Sorry, I cannot understand it.

That are paid poster. hired, From all the foreigners I know, every single one is pro PAD.

I know I'm probably wasting my time, but for my understanding, I will try to summarize some of your postings:

1 The current government (Not only PPP but other parties) have been risen to power due to massive vote buying, something that incidentially hasn't been proven yet in a court of law, but of course that's of no consequence, therefore PAD actions are heroic and patriotic.

2 All claims that people are gettng paid to participate in the PAD demonstrations are false.

3 Foreigners that oppose the PAD are paid to do so.

Can you please give me a few pointers as to how to contact the people that are paying foreigners to do so, I would be happy to post endless anti PAD drivel, if I would get a nice amount of money to do so.

Thanks in advance.

Check out the old Samak thread....There was a link to an offer "work at home, Computer and good english required" But the offer disappeared within short time. But can be found there. There are some user who told that they got contacted, sure they have the contactinformations as well there is an office in Hongkong. With some time+google you should be able to find it. I got told it is the same company who did the anti-china postings at the tibet demonstrations.

Thats an official well known kind of business. As well pro/contra McCain/Obama or at any other election in every country.

Thanks, I was not claiming such a thing didn't exist by the way, just pointing out remarks like from H90, where he claims that foreigners opposed to PAD must be paid as he only knows foreigners that are pro pad are a tad out of touch with reality, I for one, don't receive a penny for posting here.

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.

I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.

I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

[catmac]

With 2,000-3,000 educated people at the PAD circus of death, I'd hardly say that the educated in Thailand are participating en masse.

Glorious name Sunrise07, so sad that I fear that the poor souls being killed are not those "educated elite" and most certainly not Sondhi and his close friends (wisely staying a long way from the action - just screaming his usual lies and sh-t , "the police are beating our children", et al - like the dirty little coward he is). As always, the victims are the not too bright foot soldiers sent into battle by the intelligent armchair generals!

[sriracha john]

At least five major confrontations with police left 443 people injured, 66 of whom were hospitalized, medical authorities said. Demonstrators accused police of using grenades; authorities denied it and say they only used tear gas on the crowd.

Questions have arisen over whether tear gas canisters could blow off limbs and toes and feet, some of the more gruesome injuries suffered by protesters.

Associated Press photographer David Longstreath, a veteran of several wars and major demonstrations, said that despite the police denial he saw stun grenades being thrown into the crowds.

He and other AP staffers were overpowered with unusually potent tear gas which sent one into repeated semi-conscious swoons and required hospital treatment for another.

Rather than spray tear gas or fire canisters in the general direction of the demonstrators, as is commonly done, the police often hurled tear gas and stun grenades into the crowds, increasing the chances for injuries, Longstreath said.

- Associated Press / 2008-10-08

[jdinasia]

Sooner or later something was bound to give as the current situation cannot continue infinitum.

While i have sympathy for the PAD and their supporters I don't believe they have the moral right on their side.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

If it requires buying votes in rural areas so be it.

Thailand has its own unique version of democracy and the PAD need to work with the system they have and fgure how best to gain control of the powers of government.

You may not have noticed ... but PAD is not a political party

It really depends on your definition of political party. If you are taking the more technical, institutional definitions then maybe not. But there are also definitions based on ideology and perceptions of national interest and these definitions would definitely class the the PAD as a political movement or party.

again ...... PAD is not a political Party, they are not registered as such, you cannot vote for PAD in elections etc. That does not take genius to understand. Yes, PAD is a political movement, attempting to oust a corrupt illegal government and the system that allows it to continue.

You (Tolley) are supporting vote buying etc ... so you are not supporting any form of democracy, so why pretend?

Edited October 8, 2008 by jdinasia

[sjaak327]

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.

I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.

I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

I'm not supporting the current government in any way, I'm just trying to point out that the PAD isn't any better, and in this exchange of words, I'm just trying to point out, that foreigners who are opposed to PAD, might not be paid to do so, but might have some valid concerns for doing so. And it certainly doesn't equal support for the current government.

[sriracha john]

Sooner or later something was bound to give as the current situation cannot continue infinitum.

While i have sympathy for the PAD and their supporters I don't believe they have the moral right on their side.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

If it requires buying votes in rural areas so be it.

Thailand has its own unique version of democracy and the PAD need to work with the system they have and fgure how best to gain control of the powers of government.

You may not have noticed ... but PAD is not a political party

It really depends on your definition of political party. If you are taking the more technical, institutional definitions then maybe not. But there are also definitions based on ideology and perceptions of national interest and these definitions would definitely class the the PAD as a political movement or party.

maybe?

The Election Commission is the only entity in Thailand that certifies whether a group is a political party. The PAD is not a political party.

[cmsally]

I think I will stop reading this topic now. Just wondering, what makes many foreigners think, that PAD is the evil? Maybe many mates are married to Girls from the NE, but does this automatically mean to lose one's brain?

Sorry, I cannot understand it.

That are paid poster. hired, From all the foreigners I know, every single one is pro PAD.

I know I'm probably wasting my time, but for my understanding, I will try to summarize some of your postings:

1 The current government (Not only PPP but other parties) have been risen to power due to massive vote buying, something that incidentially hasn't been proven yet in a court of law, but of course that's of no consequence, therefore PAD actions are heroic and patriotic.

2 All claims that people are gettng paid to participate in the PAD demonstrations are false.

3 Foreigners that oppose the PAD are paid to do so.

Can you please give me a few pointers as to how to contact the people that are paying foreigners to do so, I would be happy to post endless anti PAD drivel, if I would get a nice amount of money to do so.

Thanks in advance.

Check out the old Samak thread....There was a link to an offer "work at home, Computer and good english required" But the offer disappeared within short time. But can be found there. There are some user who told that they got contacted, sure they have the contactinformations as well there is an office in Hongkong. With some time+google you should be able to find it. I got told it is the same company who did the anti-china postings at the tibet demonstrations.

Thats an official well known kind of business. As well pro/contra McCain/Obama or at any other election in every country.

Thanks, I was not claiming such a thing didn't exist by the way, just pointing out remarks like from H90, where he claims that foreigners opposed to PAD must be paid as he only knows foreigners that are pro pad are a tad out of touch with reality, I for one, don't receive a penny for posting here.

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.

I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.

I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

Supporting the entrenchment of the elite and military and its aspiration to achieve a carte blanche in running the country as it wishes, is also rather perplexing.

The present government is as corrupt as those who have been in power before them and before them etc.

Some people would prefer that Thailand in the future has the chance to govern itself in a fairer and more reasoned way and see the best solution as change and maturity within the political system.

An increased stranglehold, taking grip within a power vacuum, from the entrenched who's who's list of certain factions is seen as a decisive step backwards.

[mdechgan]

Sooner or later something was bound to give as the current situation cannot continue infinitum.

While i have sympathy for the PAD and their supporters I don't believe they have the moral right on their side.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

If it requires buying votes in rural areas so be it.

Thailand has its own unique version of democracy and the PAD need to work with the system they have and fgure how best to gain control of the powers of government.

I just don't see an end in sight.

The country is deeply divided through the middle.

Northeast vs. Southwest line drawn diagonally.

This isn't like some divide like the democrat and republican or labour, conservative or liberal democrats.

This is like the have vs. have nots. The rural, Issan, versus the middle class in suburban BKK.

It then gets more vague. The PAD or educated middle class claims to have the voice of the "Thai heritage" and "moral right". While the government in power claims to have legitimacy, numbers, and many peoples in high places and offices like the military and police. Or is the government in power right in quelling a rebellion.

Legitimacy is also vague. Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon were all popular at their respective times.

Does two wrongs make a right? Does the end justify the means?

The problem is the lesser educated rural people outnumber the Bangkokians by a considerable amount. The flaws of democracy, mob rule.

Then we start to argue if the majority is right. That's why in the U.S. their are two houses, the senate and the reps.

That's why I disagree with Western observers that democracy in Thailand is not what it seems and cannot be compared to demoracy in EU or U.S.A.

What if..

What if someone with lots of money like someone from the high up just come out and say I will pay 1,000 baht to anyone that does not vote for the PPP, and in the eventual election the PPP loses. Is this right or wrong?

Edited October 8, 2008 by mdechgan

[sjaak327]

again ...... PAD is not a political Party, they are not registered as such, you cannot vote for PAD in elections etc. That does not take genius to understand. Yes, PAD is a political movement, attempting to oust a corrupt illegal government and the system that allows it to continue.

You (Tolley) are supporting vote buying etc ... so you are not supporting any form of democracy, so why pretend?

Yes we all know they are not a political party as such (even though they apparently did register one). But I don't see the relevance, political pary or not, we are talking about an extremely well organized organisation that is holding Thailand hostage for a long time now. (going back all the way to 2006). They have done almost nothing of substance, and have shown themselves to be anything but democratic. They don't have a mandate, and they are comming awfully close to an all out confrontation with the authorities, that up until now have shown remarkable restraint in dealing with the PAD. Instead of taking the road of dialogue, they have choosen to take the road of confrontation, of course in the hope of militairy intervention, luckily for the country, they also have shown restraint.

[jdinasia]

CMSally, I assume you mean the entrenchment of Thaksin/TRT/PPP and the vote buying/graft/selling off the countries assets etc.

[bassmaster50]

I am not going to give an opinion on the positions of PAD or PPP and who I agree with politically as I cannot vote here anyway and am not about to get into any protest. However, there is alot of misinformation being spread around in the media here. As watch commander in a maximum security prison in US, I have been involved in numerous riots where chemical agents(tear gas etc.) were deployed. I can tell you with absolute certainty a tear gas grenade cannot blow your leg off. The explosive charge is only strong enough to disperse the agent, not tear off limbs. And I have seen inmates hit square in the back with grenade fired from a gas gun and it did nothing but leave a bruise. I also know of one inmate hit in the head with one who still did not recieve a fatal injury. There is a barricade piercing gas projectile which can do some damage, and could break a leg, but not tear it off. And if the police were using this type of projectile in an open field of fire they are very poorly trained. From what I understand, those people who lost limbs in the riot were those who were carrying molotov cocktails and other explosives which ignited while they were holding them or had them in their pocket. This seems much more likely.

And while I am not supporting or condemning either side, if protesters were occupying parliament in London, or thew US capitol, or the government offices of any country, does anyone really believe the govt. would just sit idle forever and take no action? I live in the north, and the local mpeople here advised everyone not to wear the usual yellow shirts so as not to be mistaken for the PAD, and their whole position and methods are very unpopular with Thai people where I live.

[jdinasia]

I am not going to give an opinion on the positions of PAD or PPP and who I agree with politically as I cannot vote here anyway and am not about to get into any protest. However, there is alot of misinformation being spread around in the media here. As watch commander in a maximum security prison in US, I have been involved in numerous riots where chemical agents(tear gas etc.) were deployed. I can tell you with absolute certainty a tear gas grenade cannot blow your leg off. The explosive charge is only strong enough to disperse the agent, not tear off limbs. And I have seen inmates hit square in the back with grenade fired from a gas gun and it did nothing but leave a bruise. I also know of one inmate hit in the head with one who still did not recieve a fatal injury. There is a barricade piercing gas projectile which can do some damage, and could break a leg, but not tear it off. And if the police were using this type of projectile in an open field of fire they are very poorly trained. From what I understand, those people who lost limbs in the riot were those who were carrying molotov cocktails and other explosives which ignited while they were holding them or had them in their pocket. This seems much more likely.

And while I am not supporting or condemning either side, if protesters were occupying parliament in London, or thew US capitol, or the government offices of any country, does anyone really believe the govt. would just sit idle forever and take no action? I live in the north, and the local mpeople here advised everyone not to wear the usual yellow shirts so as not to be mistaken for the PAD, and their whole position and methods are very unpopular with Thai people where I live.

Ummmmmm you claim some expertise .... but ....

a Molotov Cocktail would not blow off limbs it would burn ... get real

had them in their pockets? were their pants around their ankles? .... again get real!

However, a concussion grenade could cause that type of injury (and a pipe bomb could not)

Edited October 8, 2008 by jdinasia

[h90]

supporting a corrupt government which is as well violent and got in place only due to massive vote buying without getting paid is weird.

I must admit, I didn't know that there are true and honest supporter of corruption.

I know Fascists, Communists, Socialists, but I didn't know that. What is the name of this political direction? Corruptionism? And the members are Corruptionists?

I'm not supporting the current government in any way, I'm just trying to point out that the PAD isn't any better, and in this exchange of words, I'm just trying to point out, that foreigners who are opposed to PAD, might not be paid to do so, but might have some valid concerns for doing so. And it certainly doesn't equal support for the current government.

The purpose of the PAD is to oust the government, nothing more nothing less. Everything else are thoughts, dreams on what to do than.

The PAD contains a spectrum from ultra left till ultra right. The only thing the share together is the will to oust the government. If you want to get rid of the government you must go to the PAD. No matter if you love or hate Sondhi. As he knows that he promised not to go in politics.

[cmsally]

CMSally, I assume you mean the entrenchment of Thaksin/TRT/PPP and the vote buying/graft/selling off the countries assets etc.

Both sides; but the PAD more so as they would seeking to change the system and increase the hold on the country with their functional const. system.

Let's not forget however much you don't see the figures of Chamlong , Sondhi et al coming to government; there are those waiting in the sideline waiting to take up position.

[jdinasia]

Oh CMSally? who would that be?

You mean the Democrats?

[h90]

I am not going to give an opinion on the positions of PAD or PPP and who I agree with politically as I cannot vote here anyway and am not about to get into any protest. However, there is alot of misinformation being spread around in the media here. As watch commander in a maximum security prison in US, I have been involved in numerous riots where chemical agents(tear gas etc.) were deployed. I can tell you with absolute certainty a tear gas grenade cannot blow your leg off. The explosive charge is only strong enough to disperse the agent, not tear off limbs. And I have seen inmates hit square in the back with grenade fired from a gas gun and it did nothing but leave a bruise. I also know of one inmate hit in the head with one who still did not recieve a fatal injury. There is a barricade piercing gas projectile which can do some damage, and could break a leg, but not tear it off. And if the police were using this type of projectile in an open field of fire they are very poorly trained. From what I understand, those people who lost limbs in the riot were those who were carrying molotov cocktails and other explosives which ignited while they were holding them or had them in their pocket. This seems much more likely.

And while I am not supporting or condemning either side, if protesters were occupying parliament in London, or thew US capitol, or the government offices of any country, does anyone really believe the govt. would just sit idle forever and take no action? I live in the north, and the local mpeople here advised everyone not to wear the usual yellow shirts so as not to be mistaken for the PAD, and their whole position and methods are very unpopular with Thai people where I live.

if you have an explosive in your pocket it won't blow away your foot. As well some would have thrown to the police and harmed them.

There are rumors (of course without any hard proof) that the police had home made pingpong bombs (they call it that way because of their small size).

Here in Bangkok you get advised not to wear red, so you are not mistaken with Thaksin supporters.

A clear split in the society.

[mdechgan]

Ummmmmm you claim some expertise .... but ....

a Molotov Cocktail would not blow off limbs it would burn ... get real

I second that. A molotov cocktail depending on the chemical agent inside does not have enough explosive force to blow or tear off a limb. Well unless it was packed and capped off with ammonium nitrate in a very strong pipe and exploded with a detonator while dropped near your leg. But white whiskey bottle with a soaked rag would barely catch fire. I'm pretty sure they didn't use petrol becaue petrol is too expensive to throw away these days.

Edited October 8, 2008 by mdechgan

[mdechgan]

if you have an explosive in your pocket it won't blow away your foot. As well some would have thrown to the police and harmed them.

There are rumors (of course without any hard proof) that the police had home made pingpong bombs (they call it that way because of their small size).

Here in Bangkok you get advised not to wear red, so you are not mistaken with Thaksin supporters.

A clear split in the society.

oops! I wore a red t-shirt today. Wasn't thinking about that. I better go home and change quick.

Is it also advised not to wear yellow?

Edited October 8, 2008 by mdechgan

[jayjayjayjay]

I just saw pictures of the victims. I almost vomit. My highest/best regards to these people who know what can happen but continue to fight for their country without being afraid of being beat to a cripple by the corrupt police

Most farangs would not have the balls for that in their home country.

I don't understand how the police can lower themself that way! Killing peaceful people to serve a corrupt illegal premier.

h90, you are becoming an hysterical bore, do try to comment on reality and stop your stupid denigration of anyone who happens to disagree with you. For your information, in my younger days I took part in many violent demonstrations fighting the very elitist/quasi-fascist people I now see allied to PAD. By the way, I don't see you (or your Merc-driving chums) taking any risks, so much easier to pay some unemployed thugs to do your dirty work for you!

Before you post nonsense...please just walk over there and look if you see some paid unemployed thugs or just mostly middle class and rich people.

Hint hint: turn on ASTV (you can turn off the sound, to avoid picking up some knowlege) and look at the people.....

You won't see me there as I see it as not right for a Farang, but my wife is there every day.

She would be my ex-wife should I be in your situation