Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[rainman]

I'm sorry, but everyone getting hit by tear gas and smoke grenades and then cries about it is an idiot. In every European country, police will use much stronger force and tear gas, much sooner, to get rid of protests like these. These protests have been going on for months and the government has done nothing until now, but this will go on for years if nothing is done.

[larvidchr]

Jdinasia, I was wrong to use term molotov cocktail as you are right it would just burn. However any number of homemade explosives could blow your leg off if you put it in your pocket. Why would the guy have to drop his pantssss? What are you talking about? Maybe the guy had cargo pants. It was a newspaper article that said it blew up in his pocket, not me. Anyway the point is that what is commonly called a tear gas grenade will not blow off your leg. There are basically three kinds and I have used them all extensively. Blast dispersion, incendiary and non-incendiary. Blast dispersion grenades use a small charge to disperse the agent. Many peoplem in riot situations have had them blow up in their hands trying to0 throw them back and usually receive some hand injury but not a lost limb. Incendiaries are used outdoors where there is no chance of fire and the gas is dispersed with burning smoke. In non-incendiaries the fire is contained inside the grenade and though there is internal burning they do not cause fires and are used inside flammable structures. I have not personally used ping pong grenades but I have witnessed them and they do not seem capable of blowing off your leg either. A concussion grenade such as used in law enforcement would just knock you down. Fragmentation grenades can blow your leg off, but if the cops were using them there would have been alot more fatalities than there were. I am not involved in the whole PAD and PPP dispute. I think the whole thing is ridiculous personally. However, I know about riots and tear gas and my only point in this long debate is regardless of what these cops did or did not do, tehy didn't blow anybody's legs off and if the newspaper says they did they are lying or misinformed.

I am sorry to have to disagree with a good man in our worldwide Law enforcement community , but there is several instances of serious injury with different types of CS grenades, in Paris around 1960 there was a number of very serious fragmentation injury's from exploding CS grenades, likewise has similar injury's been reported from the Korea's, and in 1996 in Haiti a man lost his hand from holding an exploding CS grenade. and then of cause non related to this case there are several deaths from heart failure and asthmatics suffering fatal asthma attacks induced by CS agents.

Apart from the types you mention there is in production more powerful combined CS/Stun grenades, the front part is the exploding stun grenade and the rear end contains the chemical agent + small charge. Likewise the military CS grenade types is much more powerful than the law enforcement types.

The two injuries shown is consistent with the "victims/perps" standing/stomping on an exploding (CS) device of some kind especially if the device by their action have been compressed in such a way as to hinder/block the discharge which will have doubled up the explosive force many times over, in layman terms (not meant for you bassmaster) like what happens to a small firecracker if you wind enough tape around it.

I have no idea where the Thai Police buy their munitions, but it would not surprise me one bit if they where cheap, less safe and predictable types from China or Korea.

It is on the other hand highly unlikely the injuries is from pipe bombs carried in their pockets, as I recall it from the pictures they both had on normal jeans so it would have been other parts that would have gone missing , not as it is a foot and lower leg (bad enough), shooting from shotguns? no way then a lot more would have been injured, Molotov cocktails? absolutely not, fumbling by themselves or others with own explosive devices? not very likely but remotely possible.

Stay safe,

Best regards,

larvidchr

[rainman]

I recommend the PAD (People's Alliance for Democracy) to change their name to PAA (People's Alliance for Anarchy).

[sawasdee2549]

Having Worked in Both iraq (first gulf) and recently in Afghanistan, and this is my "Home-Country" as far as wife and Kids (Thai) and my business are concerned, the current crises, is <deleted>, the thugs of the PAD deserve a lot worse than this, they start a fight with the security forces and then let all and sundry get injured, but with the protagonists at a distance.start a fire then piss off! hats off to the scumbags for making this a destination for ALL tourists as "NO-GO", thank you.

If this situation occurred elsewhere do you think WE would be that soft handed? NO.As a serviceman, I would not expect to have the restrictions imposed same as the Tai forces.NOTE look at all photos, spot the weapons used by the police...... none above usual riot control, and crowd dispersal.

Look at the thugs from PAD.armed to the teeth and looking for a fight.

10 minutes ago saw a guy get his head caved in for riding a motorcycle with his wife and kid and hoisting a white flag for all to see, by about 20 <deleted> with metal bars, sticks etc.the guy was down and out, but the rabble continued to assault the guy. F***ing cowards and thugs.

Pack dog attitude from the Tais as usual.

Very sad and disappointing for a country for my kids.

Disgusting....and I am a soldier.

RIP Thailand.

[sriracha john]

Just to put the issue to rest, but for some reason, I'm sure it won't just yet.... but the Chula hospital disavows the comments from the physician that I posted earlier. While I can sympathize with the doctor's feelings, as Frodo posted before in a very well done manner, their profession at its core, has to transcend those feelings. They certainly can have ill-feelings due to their fellow co-workers being mistreated by the police, but again... the professional physician needs to put aside those ill-feelings. I can also understand that in the heat of the moment, someone can say something they don't really mean or truly feel, but Dr. Suthep was way out of line and should recant his words of yesterday in the strongest possible manner. The medical world, like all other worlds, has a few bad eggs, and if he doesn't do the right thing, he should be removed from the medical world, which has, relative to other worlds, few bad eggs.... By the way, it's extremely erroneous to label them "PAD doctors" as I noticed posted earlier by the usual suspect.

Duty to treat all

Chulalongkorn hospital executives have disavowed moves by doctors not to treat injured police officers in a protest over the violent reaction to disperse demonstrators on Tuesday. The hospital, which works under the auspices of the Thai Red Cross Society, has a duty to treat all patients regardless of their political leanings, hospital Deputy Director Tirapong Jaroenwit insisted yesterday. "Our team of 400 medical staff treat people from all walks of life, be they soldiers, police, or ordinary people," Dr Tirapong said. Doctors at Chulalongkorn's Faculty of Medicine, led by Suthep Kolchanwit, said they would take a "social position" against the police by deciding not to treat officers wounded during the bloody crackdown on supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). The doctors are unhappy with PM Somchai who carried on announcing his government's policies in parliament even as people were being severely injured outside. Some medical staff who were at the clash scene accused the police of preventing them from taking injured people to hospital. "My friend even took a blood-soaked patient from an ambulance to show the police and asked them to make way for us, but they didn't," said volunteer nurse Jiraporn Powongwanit. Tear gas was also fired at the ambulance, she said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131258

Edited October 8, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

The two deaths involved on Tuesday..... condolences to their families and friends...

Angkhana Radappanyawut

Methee Chartmontri

[Plus]

I'm sorry, but everyone getting hit by tear gas and smoke grenades and then cries about it is an idiot. In every European country, police will use much stronger force and tear gas, much sooner, to get rid of protests like these. These protests have been going on for months and the government has done nothing until now, but this will go on for years if nothing is done.

There were no warnings, no attempts at negotiation, no announcements of any kind before police unleashed their "tear" gas on unsuspecting crowd.

"Tear" gas - the gas that tears off legs and feet, after the first morning raid there were reports of two severed limbs, and it got worse later in the day. According to today's paper the toll stands at 8.

[sriracha john]

The police are still not conceding even that they used rubber bullets... which makes me question, yet again, the very visible presence of their shotguns... but it's interesting to note the emergence of the military as critics of the police tactics...

The Chinese-made smoke and tear gas grenades which police say they used.

Bangkok Post

Police insist all they used was tear gas

The police, under heavy criticism for their role in Tuesday's bloodshed, are insisting they used only tear gas to disperse protesters while they say that some supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) carried lethal weapons to the demonstration. Public suspicion abounds about the types of grenades and bullets police used in Tuesday's crackdown on the PAD demonstration. Six, of the hundreds injured, lost limbs. Police deny any lethal ammunition was used, just tear gas rounds and flash grenades which cannot cause serious injuries. Still, the military has accused the police of mishandling tear gas and riot-control equipment, resulting in the hundreds of injured. "Based on our investigations, we believe most of the serious injuries suffered on Tuesday were caused by lethal ammunition brought to the demonstration by the protesters themselves," said Deputy Police Spokesman Police Major-General Surapol. Surapol said that tear gas was only fired at the protesters from a distance, adding that this was more than 150 metres away. An army source yesterday accused police of firing tear gas rounds directly into the crowd, instead of aiming them away from the protesters and letting the wind carry the gas to the mob. A source at the army said: "Only one to two rounds of tear gas would have been enough [for this size of crowd]. Perhaps the police had not been properly trained, because they fired 40 to 50 rounds." *or even the many more than that has been widely witnessed* But the meeting agreed with the police stance that tear gas could not rip apart protesters' limbs, suggesting that bombs had been thrown. The source said doctors could prove from chemical residue in the wounds of the dead and injured whether the injuries had been inflicted by tear gas or explosives. National Police Chief Pracharawat Wongsuwan said: "Tear gas and shields was all that the police had, and these could not cut off legs." "An unbiased person will be asked to conduct an investigation." *Khunying Pornthip?* "The police carried no bombs. Tear gas was used only to pave the way for politicians to enter parliament." He added that police could not even use their batons, as they might hurt the rally-goers. Eyewitnesses insisted some police officers fired tear gas rounds directly at them, while shouting "shoot them" and "keep firing."

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091008_News/09Oct2008_news04.php

=================================================================

"The Chinese-made smoke and tear gas grenades which police say they used."

Which doesn't look anything like this particular type of "whatever" grenade a policeman is throwing...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"He added that police could not even use their batons"

OOPS...

Riot police officers beat an anti-government protester outside Parliament in Bangkok on Tuesday.

Getty Images

[sriracha john]

Her Majesty the Queen gives cash to three state hospitals

Her Majesty the Queen has donated 800,000 baht to three public hospitals providing medical treatment for those injured in Tuesday's clashes between police and anti-government protesters. The Royal Household Bureau yesterday said the Queen donated 300,000 baht to Vajira hospital, 200,000 baht to Phramongkutklao hospital, and 300,000 baht to Ramathibodi hospital and instructed them to provide medical treatment for all people who sustained injuries in Tuesday's clashes around Parliament. The clashes left two people dead and hundreds injured. Most of the injured were PAD demonstrators. About 20 were police officers. The majority of them were treated for wounds and burns. 17 had to undergo surgery for severe injuries. 4 have lost their limbs while 4 others had to have either their hands or feet amputated.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091008_News/09Oct2008_news08.php

[Plus]

Funny how home made ping pong and pipe bombs allegedly carried by PAD went off only during police assault and strictly among the protesters themselves. The police didn't mention shoe bombs, though, that would explain torn feet and legs.

[catmac]

Sondhi's standing up against corruption? Well that explains the ardour with which he has demanded a full accounting of the military budgets granted by the Sarayuth government to the armed forces- his insistence on cleaning up the notorious corrupt state agencies- etc etc etc.

I understand- and I suspect many who oppose the PAD leadership understand- the desire to clean up corruption- but most of us are over 12 and understand that couching personal vendettas and odious political agendas in the language of self righteous morality is all too common in this old world.

Do you seriously believe that the amall business owner who supports PAD seriously wants to end the corruption in, say, the revenue department- or do you believe that these people have never 'gifted' an agent for some helpful 'advice'?

So you really believe that had Thaksin been devoted to improving the lot of the urban middle class, the establishment and the bluebloods, that his transgressions wouldn't have been met with a wink and a nod?

The only corruption these people are interested in halting is the corruption that permits the poor to demand (through populist programs) a piece of the pie.

But at this point- all reason has been put aside- now all that ails Thailand is embodied by Our Man In London.

Sadly- that's not the case.

By far the best, concise summing-up of the case against PAD on this thread.

[jumnien]

Funny how home made ping pong and pipe bombs allegedly carried by PAD went off only during police assault and strictly among the protesters themselves. The police didn't mention shoe bombs, though, that would explain torn feet and legs.

Agreed. You can't trust any information coming from Thai sources. Many of the photos are set up by PAD creative directors. I've got to say that some of them are quite good!

[sriracha john]

Crackdown ruined all hope for reconciliation

The police crackdown on demonstrators around Parliament on Tuesday has enraged supporters of the PAD, which is seeking the ouster of the Somchai government. Some observers now fear the possible arson of government buildings or a third party instigating further unrest. Yet there has not been any violent reaction towards the government. Despite sealing off Parliament, PAD demonstrators say they are not planning any violent action. Some demonstrators may carry weapons, but they claim these are for self-defence. Two people were killed in Tuesday's clashes and many others were injured. Inevitably, the Somchai government must be held responsible. Somchai demanded police pave the way for him to announce government policies in Parliament Tuesday morning so the new Cabinet could officially begin its tenure. He stated clearly that it was not right for MPs whom people nationwide had elected to be blocked from entering the parliament. Thammasat University Rector Surapol Nitikraipoj commented that Somchai was acting like a lawyer who centered only on law enforcement and ignored its possible consequences. The Cabinet had a late-night meeting on Monday and many ministers suggested Somchai postpone the policy announcement from Tuesday, or to read the statement elsewhere and restrict government actions to negotiations only. Deputy PM Chavalit, Foreign Minister Sompong, Agriculture Minister Somsak, and Deputy PM Sanan backed the recommendations. Despite opposition from Deputy Agriculture Minister Teerachai and Education Minister Srimuang, the Cabinet agreed on a peaceful response on that night. Tuesday's events surprised many Cabinet ministers, who wondered why the government employed such drastic measures in its first response to the demonstration in front of the Parliament. Many people have wondered if any powerful person behind Somchai made the order. Above all, the legitimacy of the Somchai government is declining, as it opted to press ahead with its policy announcement despite the fatalities and injuries outside. This contradicts the government's policy announcement that it would work for national reconciliation. The crackdown ruins all the possibilities for negotiation between the government and the PAD.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091008_News/09Oct2008_news09.php

[jumnien]

Gee, just when the PAD were getting so concilliatory! With all their flair for theatrics and fakery the PAD halloween "haunted house" is going to be a sensation!

[sriracha john]

The inevitable foreign embassy travel warnings are heightened...

Alerts issued on travelling to Thailand

Ten of 24 countries which have issued warnings about traveling to Thailand have raised the level of alarm following the government's bloody crackdown on anti-government protesters. They are Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland, Japan, Norway, Sweden, and the United Kingdom, all of which account for a huge chunk of Thailand's tourism revenue. Previously, 24 countries had issued a ''travel advisory'' for Thailand, but later eased the warning when the state of emergency was canceled last month. The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) has posted the latest information about the conflict on its website, explaining that incidents were occurring in limited areas. The message is aimed at easing the concerns of regular travelers to Thailand and those who are planning to come to the kingdom during the high season, said TAT Deputy Governor Surapol Svetseni. The TAT is now assessing the impact of the latest developments in the political conflict on tourism. It had earlier studied the impact of the announcement of the state of emergency on Sept 2. Tourism and Sport Minister Weerasak Kowsurat addressing 1,090 foreign travel agents and media representatives yesterday said foreign visitors could travel in other areas of Bangkok and around Thailand without worry.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091008_News/09Oct2008_news12.php

[animatic]

I'm sorry, but everyone getting hit by tear gas and smoke grenades and then cries about it is an idiot. In every European country, police will use much stronger force and tear gas, much sooner, to get rid of protests like these. These protests have been going on for months and the government has done nothing until now, but this will go on for years if nothing is done.

But people don't typically lose feet and legs in these euro crowd control scenarios.

Regardless of the merits or lack of merits for the protesters, the crowd control measures

have been a royal flying cock-up and either a 3rd party has been at play in a VERY malevolent way,

or the police and their masters of the moment have MUCH to be accountable for.

[jumnien]

Associated Press

Click on image below to see beggar before make-up session!

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/363/p70719140asey7.jpg

Reduced: 74% of original size [ 861 x 574 ] - Click to view full image

This is typical of the photos of "injuries" circulated by the PAD. I'm not making the assertion that the Royal Thai Police aren't doing the same thing; but I've not seen any evidence.

I believe the photo is from Channel 3.

[sriracha john]

PM tries to calm global concern

PM Somchai Wongsawat yesterday tried to allay international concerns about the political crisis, saying the problems could be resolved through the democratic process. Somchai met with 50 ambassadors, 17 charge d'affaires, and 7 international organisations based in Bangkok at the Foreign Ministry. "My government is committed to ensuring confidence in our political system. We continue to abide by parliamentary democratic rule and intend to uphold the rule of law," he said. He also promised that the government would quickly restore business confidence and provide a friendly climate for investors. The meeting came after he and Foreign Minister Sompong Amornvivat held talks with ambassadors of the ASEAN to assure them that Thailand was ready to hold the summit in December. The diplomats had no chance to ask Somchai about the bloodshed as the premier had to hurry out of the Foreign Ministry after being alerted by police that PAD supporters were on their way to the ministry to protest against him. *there's some good confidence-building..."It's safe to come to Thailand, now please excuse me while I skedaddle on out of here while I still can."* Some diplomats said they were not surprised by what the premier said and added that they saw no peaceful end to the situation in the near term. Several European envoys said they had been expecting turbulence even after Samak Sundaravej was ordered to quit as prime minister by the court but added that they did not think it would come so soon. The country needed to quickly restore its economy and the confidence of investors and tourists, they said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091008_News/09Oct2008_news13.php

[jayjayjayjay]

snip

As for the wound of the man who lost his left leg, doctors say they found metal shards in the wound.

snip

I dont know if more is going to come to light on this case, obviously the most sensational wound that a PAD supporter has recieved. Thai and international papers have this guy plastered everywhere. I guenuinely feel empathy for this guy, but I don't know if it's for the right reason. I hope Khunying Porntip has a chace to examine this guy sooner than later.

[Loaded]

Sondhi's standing up against corruption? Well that explains the ardour with which he has demanded a full accounting of the military budgets granted by the Sarayuth government to the armed forces- his insistence on cleaning up the notorious corrupt state agencies- etc etc etc.

I understand- and I suspect many who oppose the PAD leadership understand- the desire to clean up corruption- but most of us are over 12 and understand that couching personal vendettas and odious political agendas in the language of self righteous morality is all too common in this old world.

Do you seriously believe that the amall business owner who supports PAD seriously wants to end the corruption in, say, the revenue department- or do you believe that these people have never 'gifted' an agent for some helpful 'advice'?

So you really believe that had Thaksin been devoted to improving the lot of the urban middle class, the establishment and the bluebloods, that his transgressions wouldn't have been met with a wink and a nod?

The only corruption these people are interested in halting is the corruption that permits the poor to demand (through populist programs) a piece of the pie.

But at this point- all reason has been put aside- now all that ails Thailand is embodied by Our Man In London.

Sadly- that's not the case.

By far the best, concise summing-up of the case against PAD on this thread.

However it doesn't take into account how Thais view corruption. There are many levels of bypassing the normal system from 'sin naan jai' and 'naam rhon naam cha' (small payments or gifts to smooth the path) which are regarded as normal and in no way negative or corrupt all the way to 'korruption' which is viewed as something only puu yai get involved in.

You also need to remember that institutionalised corruption in the form of 'gin muang' was introduced by Rama 6. He needed provincial governers to collect taxes but he wasn't prepared to pay a salary so he appointed puu yais to do this for him. In return for their valuable time they were/are allowed to take a cut of revenues and use their position to help family and friend thus creating a network of 'bhun khun' (gratitude and obligation) that will support them in the future. Most Thais know Banharn is as dodgy as John Gotti but he is very popular because he understands his obligations as a puu yai to spread the cash around. Suphan Buri has great hospitals and schools. Thaksin, by avoiding tax on the sale of his company, was perceived as avoiding his obligation to spread around some of his 'cut'.

Thailand isn't England.

[Plus]

Catmac, there were replies to this already.

There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs. If one of them turned to be an amputee already, what's the big deal? Blood on him doesn't look real to you? Staged by creative PAD directors?

[Ricardo]

Police deny any lethal ammunition was used, just tear gas rounds and flash grenades which cannot cause serious injuries. Still, the military has accused the police of mishandling tear gas and riot-control equipment, resulting in the hundreds of injured.

Further to this, Channel-7 news showed footage this morning, of a police-commander pulling the pin on a gas-grenade, then lobbing it casually into the centre of his own men, ranked in front of him, rather than into the protesters standing 30 yards away. As the cloud of tear-gas burst, several of his men scattered, despite wearing gas-masks.

I would suggest that this supports the military claim, that these bussed-in border-police, might not have received proper training in the use of tear-gas.

Has their been any reason given, for these out-of-town police to have been used for the assault, rather than the Bangkok police previously used, who might well get more training in crowd-control ? That training might also have suggested giving the crowd some immediate warning, before beginning the assault, as apparently didn't happen.

[animatic]

Jdinasia, I was wrong to use term molotov cocktail as you are right it would just burn. However any number of homemade explosives could blow your leg off if you put it in your pocket. Why would the guy have to drop his pantssss? What are you talking about? Maybe the guy had cargo pants. It was a newspaper article that said it blew up in his pocket, not me. Anyway the point is that what is commonly called a tear gas grenade will not blow off your leg. There are basically three kinds and I have used them all extensively. Blast dispersion, incendiary and non-incendiary. Blast dispersion grenades use a small charge to disperse the agent. Many peoplem in riot situations have had them blow up in their hands trying to0 throw them back and usually receive some hand injury but not a lost limb. Incendiaries are used outdoors where there is no chance of fire and the gas is dispersed with burning smoke. In non-incendiaries the fire is contained inside the grenade and though there is internal burning they do not cause fires and are used inside flammable structures. I have not personally used ping pong grenades but I have witnessed them and they do not seem capable of blowing off your leg either. A concussion grenade such as used in law enforcement would just knock you down. Fragmentation grenades can blow your leg off, but if the cops were using them there would have been alot more fatalities than there were. I am not involved in the whole PAD and PPP dispute. I think the whole thing is ridiculous personally. However, I know about riots and tear gas and my only point in this long debate is regardless of what these cops did or did not do, tehy didn't blow anybody's legs off and if the newspaper says they did they are lying or misinformed.

I am sorry to have to disagree with a good man in our worldwide Law enforcement community , but there is several instances of serious injury with different types of CS grenades, in Paris around 1960 there was a number of very serious fragmentation injury's from exploding CS grenades, likewise has similar injury's been reported from the Korea's, and in 1996 in Haiti a man lost his hand from holding an exploding CS grenade. and then of cause non related to this case there are several deaths from heart failure and asthmatics suffering fatal asthma attacks induced by CS agents.

Apart from the types you mention there is in production more powerful combined CS/Stun grenades, the front part is the exploding stun grenade and the rear end contains the chemical agent + small charge. Likewise the military CS grenade types is much more powerful than the law enforcement types.

The two injuries shown is consistent with the "victims/perps" standing/stomping on an exploding (CS) device of some kind especially if the device by their action have been compressed in such a way as to hinder/block the discharge which will have doubled up the explosive force many times over, in layman terms (not meant for you bassmaster) like what happens to a small firecracker if you wind enough tape around it.

I have no idea where the Thai Police buy their munitions, but it would not surprise me one bit if they where cheap, less safe and predictable types from China or Korea.

It is on the other hand highly unlikely the injuries is from pipe bombs carried in their pockets, as I recall it from the pictures they both had on normal jeans so it would have been other parts that would have gone missing , not as it is a foot and lower leg (bad enough), shooting from shotguns? no way then a lot more would have been injured, Molotov cocktails? absolutely not, fumbling by themselves or others with own explosive devices? not very likely but remotely possible.

Stay safe,

Best regards,

larvidchr

Larv I don't think all the police were using live amo and higher level explosives.

It would only take a few with different versions to create the carnage.

If it was ALL live amo many would be dead on the streets.

One guy with slug shot in a shotgun could take out legs as seen.

[sriracha john]

PPP MP rejected by Thai Airways to board her flight

People Power Party's Member of Parliament *and former Thai Rak Thai Party's Member of Parliament* Farida Sulaiman prepared to write a complaint letter to Thai Airways International Public Company Limited after she has been rejected from boarding.

========================================================================

"As a Thai citizen, she felt quite upset" = "If I was farang, it'd be normal to be mistreated on THAI"

People Power Party MP Farida Sulaiman

People Power Party MP Chaiya Proma

People Power Party MP Chompu Jantatong

THAI questions anti-PPP pilot

Thai Airways International (THAI) has set up a committee to investigate one of its pilots after he refused to allow three MPs from the People Power party (PPP) to board his aircraft yesterday. THAI vice-president Norahuch Ployai said captain Jakri Pongsiri had already been suspended until the outcome of the disciplinary investigation, which is expected to be completed next week. He said THAI had a policy of being politics-free and ensuring fair service. "Of course his action affects our image in the eyes of the public," Flight Officer Norahuch said. He described the incident as "unusual." The investigation must be carried out carefully because captains are important people in the company who usually have sound judgement and solid working experience, he said. THAI president Apinan Sumanaseni said if found to be in the wrong, the pilot would be punished either by being temporarily or permanently demoted to co-pilot. The three PPP MPs were Farida Sulaiman, who was scheduled to fly to Khon Kaen from Don Mueang airport on flight TG 1040 at 6.15am, and Chaiya Proma and Chompu Jantatong, who had booked the same flight, TG 1002, from the same airport to Udon Thani at 9.25am. Both flights were piloted by Mr Jakri. The government and police are under heavy criticism after the decision to disperse the PAD rally in front of parliament ended in tragedy with many PAD supporters and police severely injured. Chaiya, who is Deputy Chairman of the House Committee on Transport, said his panel would ask responsible agencies to clarify Mr Jakri's action. Under international practices, a pilot can decide not to allow drunken passengers or those carrying weapons to get on a plane for safety reasons. "But I'm not a criminal," Chaiya said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091008_News/09Oct2008_news16.php

Edited October 9, 2008 by sriracha john

[OlRedEyes]

This report says 20 police injured, some with gunshot wounds? At a peaceful protest?

Woman dies of internal injuries? Seems like war from both sides.

Troops on Thai streets as protest leaders vow to fight on

1 day ago

BANGKOK (AFP) — Security forces patrolled Bangkok's streets Wednesday in an effort to maintain calm a day after deadly clashes, as Thai protest leaders vowed to seek revenge for those killed or hurt in the violence.

Small groups of soldiers and police stood guard near state buildings including parliament -- the focus of Tuesday's clash between police and anti-government protesters which left two people dead and hundreds injured.

Troops were largely monitoring empty avenues in the historic district, with few signs remaining of the unrest, when police fired tear gas at thousands of protesters and angry mobs retaliated with gunfire and fighting.

Leaders of the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) said they would continue their rallies until the elected administration steps down.

"We will fight with our wits to reach our goal, to get justice for the people who were injured and died," PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul said at the prime minister's offices, which demonstrators have occupied since late August.

The health ministry said that 455 people were injured on Tuesday, including eight who had to have damaged limbs amputated. Twenty police were among the injured, some suffering gunshot wounds, while 84 people remained in hospital.

A man identified by police on Wednesday as PAD organiser and retired policeman Metha Chartmontri was killed in a car bomb near parliament, while one woman died of internal injuries she sustained during the clashes.

Full article:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ju5Oib...1wwFXOOPmZP6T2w

Edited October 9, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[Tolley]

You really make me laugh.

First off i never said that PAD was a political party.

WHat they should be doing is organising themselves to win the next election.

You have to be a political party to contest an election

Secondly re vote buying what do think happens in the US elections campaigns albeit a more sophisticated type of vote buying with vested interests and key lobby groups distributing

money to candidates and parties.

They don't donate money without expecting some sort of return.

This is not the US and you are talking about the reverse of 'vote buying' You are talking about constituents or groups paying candidates to run. I invite you to look into campaign donations etc .. but this isn't the US. OK, where I am is not the US, maybe where you are ......

To my mind PAD are not offering any alternative to the regime that exists now and they don't have a replacment because they are not a political party so what are they really going to achieve?

The elimination of a corrupt regime and a change in the system but it is nice to see you reverse yourself on the political party thing

Not much IMHO because they are not really offering anything. In fact you could argue that they are contributing to a further destablisation of the country.

Unfortunately the problems of Thailand are so deeply rooted in their institutions and culture that it really would take a seismic shift in the education, political institutions, the way business is done etc

The PAD is the seismic event, we hope!

It ain't gonna happen in our life time that is for sure.

Possibly YOUR lifetime

The thing is that they are contributing to the further destabilisation of the country.

They are ignoring the rule of law and creating havoc.

What are they going to achieve by adopting this strategy?

All counterproductive to my way of thinking and only really a recipe for a repeat of history lessons in Thailand.

In the end they will go backwards because a military dictatorship is where thailand is heading yet again.

[coalminer]

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QUOTE ( @ 2008-10-08 23:48:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The PAD are now gathering evidence and once done, they shall send a copy of the evidence and document and send it to every single embassy in Thailand.

Next, the PAD will bring their evidence & documents and bring this case to the International(?) Court.

Sincerely hope they could make a case out of it.

The Police obviously uses more than necessary force in this case.

Sorry mate, but that wont work unless you take it to a US Court.

The US Courts are famous for accepting cases like "breaking in in a house, mutilate everybody, rape the females and when police comes to free the legal inhabitants of that house, sue the police for using excesive force".

The International Court will have a good laugh at the PAD if they try to present such a case and I would't be surprised if the International Court would even condom the PAD for using people as human shields to protect them.

The PAD is using illegal means for their protest (occupying the Government House) and that is reason enough to loose all credibility.

I have read yesterday a lot of foreign newspapers and they all paint black the PAD and their illegal actions.

[KhaoNiaw]

A rather suspicious gentleman firing a gun from inside the walls of Dusit Zoo in the general direction of protesters/police officers, supposedly. Front page of Matichon today.

[animatic]

I recommend the PAD (People's Alliance for Democracy) to change their name to PAA (People's Alliance for Anarchy).

By the same token, if the other side gets free reign to do as they will,

We must just rename Thailand, Thaksinland.

Because make no mistake, he is going for total control

and he WILL want revenge greater than just take over.

No matter the short term anarchy caused by PAD,

the alternatve is far more frightening.

[Plus]

The thing is that they are contributing to the further destabilisation of the country.

They are ignoring the rule of law and creating havoc.

What are they going to achieve by adopting this strategy?

There's no rule of law in this country, or Thaksin's nominee government wouldn't even be in place.

PAD is hoping to achieve restoration of the rule of law, a government answerable to the people, not criminal fugitives or feudal lords.

Take this example - Suwat Liptapanlop was banned from politics, yet he installed his comletely unqualified wife as a minister, when his wife was dismissed from the government after Samak's conviction, he replaced her with a brother in law. Samak claimed legitimacy until his last day, only to find out that he was cheating the country since February.

That's not the rule of law, that's a farce.

And it's not courts faults, btw, it's government's duty to follow the rule of law, not to subvert it as they are doing now.