Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[animatic]

One man's blaring propaganda,

is another man's truth to be silenced at all costs.

And a third man's lies to be silenced at all costs.

And the average somchai's background noise in life.

He who is without doubt,

makes a hel_l of a great zealot!

Which is why the cannon fodder comes from the lower end of the intelligence scale.

hmmmm cmsally is willing to make a statement about people's intelligence?

Sally you also forgot the POOR, are usually at the front lines.

Then the stupid are right behind pushing them along,

and the greedy two steps back shoving them forward.

Meanwhile 'The Prince' sits back and directs from afar.

Lead from the rear.

Lead from the rear. And live to lead another day.

Edited October 21, 2008 by animatic

[Guest Reimar]

Sally you also forgot the POOR, are usually at the front lines.

Then the stupid are right behind pushing them along,

and the greedy two steps back shoving them forward.

Meanwhile 'The Prince' sits back and directs from afar.

Lead from the rear.

Lead from the rear. And live to lead another day.

From London UK?

[quiksilva]

His blog is a good read too: http://sovereignmyth.blogspot.com/

As to what to make of his story, well I think he is basically saying what we already know, here we have two sides who it seems are completely irreconcilable.

In ten minutes or so the verdict is due on the land case and one side will be happy and the other will be baying for blood no matter what the verdict.

Although I am hopeful that Thaksin will be found guilty and that once the dust settles his supporters will see him for what he is, and then his support base will then (hopefully) diminish.

For me this has to happen before any political and structural changes can be worked out and evaluated by everyone (let alone implemented) that will set Thailand sailing in the right direction.

However we can only get there if the entire Nation has enough confidence, nay faith, in the judicial system to see that verdict that is about to be handed down will be fair and just.

But whether that will happen and if both sides will believe that to be the case, is anyone's guess.

The one thing that all this mess has taught us is that Thaksin and co's desire to cling to power should never be underestimated.

[younghusband]

His blog is a good read too: http://sovereignmyth.blogspot.com/

As to what to make of his story, well I think he is basically saying what we already know, here we have two sides who it seems are completely irreconcilable.

I agree and thanks animatic for posting it.One particular virtue of the article is that it challenges some easy assumptions and it has certainly given me pause for thought.Nevertheless I'm incomfortable with extended use of Marx's "parliamentary cretinism" concept and would want to examine this further (but not here!).

For those interested here is another contribution from Connors on PAD's New Politics (or as Chris Baker has pointed out very old politics) and the poisonous drift from the early idealism of the movement.

Thailand’s “New Politics” Charade

Written by Michael Connors

Monday, 07 July 2008

Sondhi Limthongkul’s plans for a political revolution

No longer content with the old slogan of “Thaksin dit khuk, Samak ok pai (Thaksin in jail, Samak out), Sondhi Limthongkul, the core leader of the People’s Alliance for Democracy, has called for a “New Politics.” I heard Sondhi’s New Politics speech delivered from the stage on July 4th, near Government House in Bangkok. It was the 41st day of the People’s Alliance for Democracy’s new round of street protests.

The New Politics turns out to be a startlingly reactionary proposal to move Thailand’s parliamentary system towards a form of appointed corporatism, or what might be called a selectoral democracy. Thirty percent of MPs would come from elections, perhaps one per province, and the rest of MPS would derive from various occupations and associations. Sondhi says the proportion is not fixed, it’s up for debate.

The rationale for wanting to dismantle Thailand’s electoral system is evident: pro-Thaksin forces keep winning elections. And as Thaksin is said to represent everything bad about Thai politics, he can not be allowed to wield power directly or indirectly. Thus, for Sondhi, and it would seem the PAD leadership as whole, there is now a need to bring about a revolution in political representation.

The idea of examining alternatives to electoral democracy is not without some merit, for it is common knowledge that massive amounts of money are required to win parliamentary seats, making parliament a millionaire’s playground and a source of further monopolization and corruption. It wasn’t always so, Sondhi told the rally. In the 1970s socialist politicians in Thailand could get elected on the basis of their ideology and popular support, but the emergence of dirty politics in the 1980s crushed any such possibility in the present.

The New Politics has interesting antecedents. The PAD leadership has clearly been speaking to military figures (this is now well documented in the Thai language press) who tried to stifle the emergence of parliament in the 1980s. Indeed, selectoral democracy nicely fits with corporatist visions of the old “Revolutionary Council”. The Council, to which General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh was said to have an association, held that elections merely led to parliamentary dictatorship and proposed a form of corporate representation to realize the “general will”.

A former communist, Prasert Sapsunthon, was the inspiration for this Thai appropriation of Rousseau, the French theorist of the social contract. Prasert became a leading intellectual among military circles calling for non-elective forms of democracy. When the Revolutionary Council effectively declared itself a provisional government during the political crisis of 1988 the elected Chatichai government took it to court for treason. It then faded into obscurity, but its ideas have never quite gone away, finding support among small rightist groups and even in some labor circles.

The New Politics is unashamedly pro-military and even codifies the conditions under which military intervention may occur. Sondhi has spoken of four conditions for military intervention: when charges of lese majeste are not acted on; when a government is incompetent; when corruption is rife; when a government betrays national sovereignty.

It is not clear if permissible military intervention according to PAD’s envisaged system of selectocracy is to be in the form of a coup d’etat or the exercise of some new administrative power to compel government agencies to rectify a wrong. But what is clear is that PAD has explicitly sanctioned ongoing military intervention in politics.

Of course anyone looking at the Thai military will know that it is a conflicted organization, with pro and anti-government factions and both corporate and individual commercial interests. How such an organization might work to protect the ‘general will’ of the people is not at all clear, notwithstanding the fact that politicized militaries the world over become deeply corrupt and self-serving. In part the answer for PAD lies in who controls the military. An important feature of Sondhi’s speech that went unreported in the press was the proposal to take the Ministry of Defence out of government control and place it under the crown.

At a time when Thailand is urgently facing the need to institutionalize its politics around public rules, PAD is proposing to formally enhance the power the monarchy.

These proposals have been supported by no less a figure than Phipop Thongchai, a central figure in democratic struggles over the last generation. More absurdly, the New Politics, according to Phipop might also copy elements of North Korea statism, where people receive state housing. It’s a shame they don’t have rights, he noted at the rally.

For many observers, PAD’s latest thinking comes as no surprise. They say that from the start PAD was associated with the opportunistic use of nationalist and royalist discourse in its call for a royally appointed government to replace the Thai Rak Thai caretaker government in March 2006. That PAD should now become an agent of political regression, willing to hand power to the military and bureaucracy flows from the logic of its initial strategy to beat Thaksin with the royalist and nationalist stick.

On the contrary, I would argue that whatever one may make of the early anti-Thaksin movement, its politics were, in part, a form of royal liberalism; it was legitimately concerned with the authoritarian slide during the Thaksin era. And this means that PAD’s current phase is a significant departure from its earlier stance and is of great significance. Most dangerously, PAD’s new turn has the potential to bring to a conservative and reactionary form of corporatism a significant social base. In the 1980s the semi-fascist corporatist politics of the Revolutionary Council were marginalized as Thai politics democratized. The Council became a laughing stock and the organization was dubbed the “Joke Council”. Somehow PAD seems to have reversed Marx’s dictum that history repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as farce.

PAD’s metamorphosis comes at an odd moment when it seems to be making ground. It played an opportunistic role in capturing the ministerial scalp of Jakraphop Penkair who resigned from office after being charged with lese majeste. It has given support to the legitimacy of the Asset Examination Committee which recently wound up its investigations into alleged corruption during the Thaksin years. Lawyers had attempted to question the constitutional standing of the AEC, but the Constitutional Court affirmed its standing. And if the Office of the Auditor General appears unconvinced of the readiness of many of the cases presented by the AEC, the National Counter Corruption Commission seems ready to take on some of the cases. The recent pastry-gate scandal when Thaksin lawyers were found guilty of contempt of court would seem to further highlight that things are not going Thaksin’s way.

So it is odd that just as its demands are being met, PAD has now put itself at the extreme margins of Thai politics. Many people have already deserted PAD because of its hyper-nationalism and attacks on progressive activists who express views different than its own. Some people have, it seems, been forced to leave. There are reports that speakers from the stage have called on Democrat Party members to leave the rally.

How far PAD has travelled is perhaps illustrated by reference to a rally I observed in the middle of last week. A well known rock star got on stage and called on the spirit of the 1950s dictator Sarit Thanarat to deal decisively with corruption. The best that can be said of that episode is that people were applauding on cue, after four weeks of clapping it’s almost a reflex.

But the PAD leadership has no such excuse, it has embraced a politics so contrary to its starting point that it now looks as bad as that which it sought to slay.

“New Politics” may well be the closing breath of PAD, as those who thought they were fighting for a form of liberal democracy desert its ranks. A protestor I was sitting close to was visibly angry with Sondhi, shouting out “Who are you to abolish parliament?” Actually, that’s an appropriate question for the last generation of Thai politics.

Michael Connors teaches politics at La Trobe University. He is the author of Democracy and National Identity in Thailand (2007). He blogs at

http://www.sovereignmyth.blogspot.com

[Samuian]

An interesting article in today's B. Post:

THAI POLITICS

Parliamentary cretinism of the commentariat

MICHAEL CONNORS

In the next few days it is possible that blood may spill in the streets of Bangkok, as anti-Thaksin hand-clappers meet pro-Thaksin foot stompers. Impending constitutional amendments and the coming judgement on the Rachadapisek land case, the proximate cause of the mobilisation, will be met with acclaim or opprobrium depending on which side of the chimerical divide you stand.

The rest of the article can be found HERE

Any thoughts or comments?

Agreed, very few Comments have reflected yet, such clarity!

But I am afraid that the picture he paints, may become reality in just a couple of hours!

How long this "kuman thong" will haunt this land and it's people?

As it is now it seems that the situation has arrived at a complete deadlock, everyone dug in their trenches.

Interesting is that the "partisan group" of banned ex-TRT Politicians are meeting now in a Shin.Corp. Building and the group is chaired by Ms.Yaowapa, wife of the current PM Somchai and sister of former PM Taxin, most who are in the Cabinet are related to these banned politicians!

There is nothing hidden, a ghost cabinet in the open, publicly meeting and the real PM in London!

I am breathless at the arrogance and rudeness this is conducted!

Here some extracts from another Blog by Michael Connors:

n the 2000s, the historical failure of Thai liberalism to deal with fundamental class grievances was grasped as an opportunity by an instrumental populist who sought to mobilise electoral weight to break through the liberal-bureaucratic compact and shift the terms of Thailand’s political economy. His populism dramatised by the “three narratives” of giving, being of the people and acting on their will )Pasuk and Baker, 2008), was made concrete by extraordinary measures to address grievances geared not simply at redistribution and alleviation but at a reconfiguration of power in Thailand. Thaksin’s wielding of the democratic gains of Thai politics, his willingness to enter the competitive fray, led to the disarticulation of an already precariously balanced liberalism and democracy (electoralism). That move laid open the possibility of the potential emergence of an electoral authoritarian regime that might permanently quash the politically liberal current, pushing such currents back into the “soft-authoritarian” arms of the noble state.

The clash of these modes of power laid the basis for the current authoritarian paradox in Thailand. In the battle between modes of order, each force competed with the other and attempted to restrain the other, ultimately resorting to authoritarian methods. Each force has failed to become institutionalised, leaving strategic elites to play games of absolute advantage, further enforcing the authoritarian impulse. Each force necessarily articulates to existing state institutions or supportive elements therein, whose substance is neither liberal nor democratic. The two positives – in a tortured historical process - have produced a negative – a decisionist authoritarianism of state and liberal regime framers.

Source:

I really wonder what will be the outcome of it.

Besides, Somchai will meet Hun Sen in China, why in China?

Edited October 21, 2008 by Samuian

[frodo]

Probe on crowd dispersal to take longer than two weeks

The independent committee in charge of investigating the October 7 violent crackdown will need more than two weeks to complete its job, Council of State secretary general Khun Pornthip Jala said on Tuesday.

Pornthip, concurrently a committee member, said the government did not set a deadline for the committee to conclude its report.

She said she understood that Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had given committee chairman Preecha Panitwong a free rein to conduct his investigation as deemed necessary.

The Nation

Source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30086530

No surprise on this. Just like nearly everything else here, it will be continue to be extended and the results will never be fully known. We'll see little bits here and there enough to satisfy the masses. In the end it could be like the maniac Benz driver last year running down innocent people. A few reports here and there, and eventually nothing.

Not sure if this is the same lady, but why would someone like Pornthip Jala be chosen as an independent investigator? A little money involved somewhere? More on Pornthip http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialInst...Pages/FIPB.aspx

[hammered]

An interesting article in today's B. Post:

THAI POLITICS

Parliamentary cretinism of the commentariat

MICHAEL CONNORS

In the next few days it is possible that blood may spill in the streets of Bangkok, as anti-Thaksin hand-clappers meet pro-Thaksin foot stompers. Impending constitutional amendments and the coming judgement on the Rachadapisek land case, the proximate cause of the mobilisation, will be met with acclaim or opprobrium depending on which side of the chimerical divide you stand.

The rest of the article can be found HERE

Any thoughts or comments?

As interesting as ever. I will also recommend his blog which has links already.

He is not only scathing of both the PAD and the PPP etc but also of the international media which he sees as not understanding the context in Thailand. He also sees the choice of Somchai as Thaksin going all out for victory and the entering of a zero sum game. In his latest entries he seems to think, although tinged with wories over predictions, that things are coming to a rapid resolution and probably this week. He even dares to suggest sevral possible outcomes.

[animatic]

Sally you also forgot the POOR, are usually at the front lines.

Then the stupid are right behind pushing them along,

and the greedy two steps back shoving them forward.

Meanwhile 'The Prince' sits back and directs from afar.

Lead from the rear.

Lead from the rear. And live to lead another day.

From London UK?

If the satin slipper fits.

And embroidered smoking jacket and deerstalker.

[animatic]

YH for the record Mobi posted it first.

But it was worth a repost.

Food for thought, and eat heartily all!

[AlKing]

Probe on crowd dispersal to take longer than two weeks

The independent committee in charge of investigating the October 7 violent crackdown will need more than two weeks to complete its job, Council of State secretary general Khun Pornthip Jala said on Tuesday.

Pornthip, concurrently a committee member, said the government did not set a deadline for the committee to conclude its report.

She said she understood that Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had given committee chairman Preecha Panitwong a free rein to conduct his investigation as deemed necessary.

The Nation

Source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30086530

No surprise on this. Just like nearly everything else here, it will be continue to be extended and the results will never be fully known. We'll see little bits here and there enough to satisfy the masses. In the end it could be like the maniac Benz driver last year running down innocent people. A few reports here and there, and eventually nothing.

Not sure if this is the same lady, but why would someone like Pornthip Jala be chosen as an independent investigator? A little money involved somewhere? More on Pornthip http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialInst...Pages/FIPB.aspx

Same first name, but differnt Pornthip.

[younghusband]

YH for the record Mobi posted it first.

But it was worth a repost.

Food for thought, and eat heartily all!

Ok thanks I missed it I'm afraid.

[Samuian]

YH for the record Mobi posted it first.

But it was worth a repost.

Food for thought, and eat heartily all!

I had a big serve of it, almost all and must admit that I revert to a shot of Averna or two!

Because he misses to point at an alternative, he delivers more or less a statement of "as things are" and "who is who" of the players, but leaves open ends!

many know that it looks as if there is an impasse, let's see I believe these people, if not all, but some can at least be pretty inventive, the show must go on, can't just stop here!

Agreed?

And here the countries genuine chance lies somewhere hidden in the uncleared thickets of the not yet clear articulated voices of the PAD Movements directions!

Sure did this create a paradox and nobody claimed that ousting the old system of "grab and rule" would be a walk in the park!

I do believe that there is a solution in the making, but it takes much, much more will and time then writing a Blog!

[frodo]

Probe on crowd dispersal to take longer than two weeks

The independent committee in charge of investigating the October 7 violent crackdown will need more than two weeks to complete its job, Council of State secretary general Khun Pornthip Jala said on Tuesday.

Pornthip, concurrently a committee member, said the government did not set a deadline for the committee to conclude its report.

She said she understood that Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat had given committee chairman Preecha Panitwong a free rein to conduct his investigation as deemed necessary.

The Nation

Source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30086530

No surprise on this. Just like nearly everything else here, it will be continue to be extended and the results will never be fully known. We'll see little bits here and there enough to satisfy the masses. In the end it could be like the maniac Benz driver last year running down innocent people. A few reports here and there, and eventually nothing.

Not sure if this is the same lady, but why would someone like Pornthip Jala be chosen as an independent investigator? A little money involved somewhere? More on Pornthip http://www.bot.or.th/English/FinancialInst...Pages/FIPB.aspx

Same first name, but differnt Pornthip.

It's not a big issue, but both the first and last names matched.

[jdinasia]

There are 2 Khunying(title) Pornthip s

Director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand (that many of us adore and respect both for her hair fashions but also for her willingness to stand up to powerful people in Thailand and tell the truth!)

and the one mentioned above

[frodo]

Exactly! If it was Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand who was in charge of this investigation commission I would not even second guess that. But Khunying Pornthip Jala, who appears to be on the board of directors with BOT. Makes no sense to me.

[^_^]

If I hear correctly, Suriyasai (PAD Spokesman) just announced (23:15) on the stage at the PAD Rally at the Government House that they have successfully taken over the old Don Muang Airport at around 21:00 - 22:00 earlier tonight.

[Meerkat]

)-->

QUOTE ( @ 2008-10-21 23:29:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I hear correctly, Suriyasai (PAD Spokesman) just announced (23:15) on the stage at the PAD Rally at the Government House that they have successfully taken over the old Don Muang Airport at around 21:00 - 22:00 earlier tonight.

Possible I suppose, but DMK is owned and still operated by the Armed Forces. I thought it was the DAAD thugs that were gearing up for conflict with the military, not the PAD ones.

[OlRedEyes]

One man's blaring propaganda,

is another man's truth to be silenced at all costs.

<etc>

Wall plaques are normally half-truths. You'd do better discussing things than to try and make great pronouncements like a guru on a hill. These wide 'great truths' only impress the gullible.

Dreams of the villagers bringing their maidens for your 'blessing'?

Edited October 21, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[animatic]

One man's blaring propaganda,

is another man's truth to be silenced at all costs.

<etc>

Wall plaques are normally half-truths. You'd do better discussing things than to try and make great pronouncements like a guru on a hill. These wide 'great truths' only impress the gullible.

Dreams of the villagers bringing their maidens for your 'blessing'?

Red, if you quote me, quote the WHOLE line it says something different than what you imply.

One man's blaring propaganda,

is another man's truth to be silenced at all costs.

And a third man's lies to be silenced at all costs.

And the average somchai's background noise in life.

You ranted about propaganda being spewed, I commented on what that could mean.

It was a commentary on the multiple perspectives available from ONE pronouncement.

It was an observation on the multiplicity of motivations all skewed towards the individual

reader/listeners profit. Be it moral or wealth. Or lack of ALL the above.

So, making a comment should make me seem guru like? ( gotta grow a long beard, look manic)

Why's that? Don't like homilies or bromides? Anti-shibboleth?

Because you don't like gurus, and so throw some derogation my way.

You don't think prompting others to think in a different line is a good thing?

You don't think looking at things from all perspectives is helpful?

Oh I DETEST FOX News.... it amazes me ANYONE takes them seriously.

Fair and Balanced... HA! Mouse and elephant are equal as beings not as weights.

Like reading Ann Coulter or Intelectual Conservative without a bottle of Pepto-Bismol close at hand.

Edited October 22, 2008 by animatic

[Moonrakers]

Well it was a relief not to wake up to bad news this morning.

Has that loony Salang been saying anything else yet?

[animatic]

Yes a serious relief.

Monks have ceremony first,

then things might go pear shaped fast...

Hope not, for ALL Thailand's sake.

Police to hold merit-making ceremony at Royal Plaza

Edited October 22, 2008 by animatic

[h90]

Well it was a relief not to wake up to bad news this morning.

Has that loony Salang been saying anything else yet?

Every morning with Somchai in power is bad news....

[hammered]

I note today that Somchai's investigation team into Oct 7 have announced they will need longer and have stated that they have been given no time limit by the government and at the same time Somchai's constitution ammendment committee will have the time neede to write a quick new constitution reduced from 240 days to 120. Of course these two are not connected and of course neither is connected to Somchai's brother-in-law recent conviction.

I can of course recognize that maybe there is a need for committee to investigate suspicious deaths to not have a hard time limit imposed on them, but following that logic makes it weird to try and understand why suddenly a committee to look into making the biggest changes to the countries supreme document in a fair way would need to have the time halved. I seriously doubt that true public involvement and proper and due and fair consideration could be given to producing a constitution in 240 days let alone 120. This signifies that there is no intent to really involve the public although I will admit that no constitution in Thailand has ever stemmed from true public consultation (including 97). It would have been nice to see this change this time around especially as the country is on a precipice.

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

FLASH UPDATE: Former Deputy National Police Chief Threatens to Close off Govt House

UPDATE : 22 October 2008

Former deputy national police chief Pol General Salang has threatned to close off all access to Government House to prevent supplies from being transported to the protest site in hopes of starving PAD protesters.

Police General Salang had earlier floated the idea of mobilizing forces made up mostly of retired police officers to disperse the PAD protesters and force them to leave the Government House.

He's now threatening to close off the official government seat after this Saturday to make sure that no food nor other supplies can be delivered to the PAD protesters.

[quiksilva]

Yet the Bangkok Post reports:-

(BangkokPost.com) - The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) core leaders on Wednesday morning considered discontinuing their mass anti-government protest temporarily.

.............................................................

However, two of the PAD leaders, Maj Gen Chamlong Srimuang and Mr Pibhob Dhongchai, announced that Pol Lt-Col Thaksin must be extradited from Britain first.

They said that if the ousted prime minister is not delivered back to Thailand, the government may face more difficulties.

Full story

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131565

[cmsally]

Yet the Bangkok Post reports:-

(BangkokPost.com) - The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) core leaders on Wednesday morning considered discontinuing their mass anti-government protest temporarily.

.............................................................

However, two of the PAD leaders, Maj Gen Chamlong Srimuang and Mr Pibhob Dhongchai, announced that Pol Lt-Col Thaksin must be extradited from Britain first.

They said that if the ousted prime minister is not delivered back to Thailand, the government may face more difficulties.

Full story

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131565

Last night on ASTV they were considering a mass visit to the British Embassy. So maybe it will simply be a change of venue.

Maybe we could find some volunteers to hand out cucumber sandwiches and cups of tea mid afternoon.

[animatic]

Yet the Bangkok Post reports:-

(BangkokPost.com) - The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) core leaders on Wednesday morning considered discontinuing their mass anti-government protest temporarily.

.............................................................

However, two of the PAD leaders, Maj Gen Chamlong Srimuang and Mr Pibhob Dhongchai, announced that Pol Lt-Col Thaksin must be extradited from Britain first.

They said that if the ousted prime minister is not delivered back to Thailand, the government may face more difficulties.

Full story

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131565

Last night on ASTV they were considering a mass visit to the British Embassy. So maybe it will simply be a change of venue.

Maybe we could find some volunteers to hand out cucumber sandwiches and cups of tea mid afternoon.

Would be simpler to invite the Amabassador for Tea at Government House parking lot.

A lawn party don'tcha know. Earl Grey at 4. lecture series and atheneum to follow.

[hammered]

Having so far failed to deliver on his little threat today, and thank god for that. Salang is now saying he intends to round a group of government supporters up in Chaing Mai after a religious festival (he seems obsessed with these) and bring them to surround the PAD in GH and starve them out.

Is this guy a serious mob leader or just a clown sad at having lost his once fairly substantial and dasngerous reputation?

As to whether he can get the numbers, well its over to the PMs wife and Yuth "dooyen" plus a substantial amount of dosh if it is up North as Salang certainly doesnt have the connections.

[quiksilva]

Sally and Animatic

Sounds great, I'll bring Pims, you bring the grenades!

Edited October 22, 2008 by quiksilva

[cmsally]

Sally and Animatic

Sounds great, I'll bring Pims, you bring the grenades!

Shame old Tony sold off the nice front lawn at the embassy. Tea party out on the pavement doesn't have quite the same ambience.