Why Do Fake Degree Holders Pick Such Stupid Names For Their Universities?

[grtaylor]

I have nothing against non-degreed teachers per se, but I do against people that commit fraud. Lots of good folks without a degree who are enthusiastic, hard working and willing to learn. Also quite committed. At least I know what I am getting.

One of the best teachers I ever worked worked with - fantastic with KG kids, and really good on the whole dyslexia testing and identifying situation, had not a single degree or certificate to her name!

I guess, with today's obsession that certificates prove you are a good teacher, she wouldn't get a job . . . . .

[garro]

I have nothing against non-degreed teachers per se, but I do against people that commit fraud. Lots of good folks without a degree who are enthusiastic, hard working and willing to learn. Also quite committed. At least I know what I am getting.

One of the best teachers I ever worked worked with - fantastic with KG kids, and really good on the whole dyslexia testing and identifying situation, had not a single degree or certificate to her name!

I guess, with today's obsession that certificates prove you are a good teacher, she wouldn't get a job . . . . .

The issue of degree versus non-degree has been discussed lots, and the general consensus among those without degrees is that non-degree teachers are somehow better - seems like reverse-snobbery to me, but there you go. Anyway the discussion is about fake degrees and I wonder if people are willing to lie about their degree what else are they lying about?

[grtaylor]

I have nothing against non-degreed teachers per se, but I do against people that commit fraud. Lots of good folks without a degree who are enthusiastic, hard working and willing to learn. Also quite committed. At least I know what I am getting.

One of the best teachers I ever worked worked with - fantastic with KG kids, and really good on the whole dyslexia testing and identifying situation, had not a single degree or certificate to her name!

I guess, with today's obsession that certificates prove you are a good teacher, she wouldn't get a job . . . . .

The issue of degree versus non-degree has been discussed lots, and the general consensus among those without degrees is that non-degree teachers are somehow better - seems like reverse-snobbery to me, but there you go. Anyway the discussion is about fake degrees and I wonder if people are willing to lie about their degree what else are they lying about?

I have no axe to grind on that - I have a degree and certification. I guess the point I am making is that experience, references, and appraisal reports which show that you can do the job effectively, should be more important than whether you have a particular degree or not. On the other hand, to return to the topic, these are probably even easier to fake . . . . .

Edited October 12, 2008 by grtaylor

[PeaceBlondie]

A liar is basically dishonest. If he will lie, he may also steal.

[Jimjim]

Our school seems to get an almost endless supply of applicants with dodgy degrees. What really surprises me though is that the names of these universities are so obviously suspicious. I mean 'The University of Susexx' in Honolulu. Come on. Or the Oxx Ford University. Why do people send such obvious fakes? Are they just taking the piss?

That's funny and yes, sounds quite stupid. I'd be glad they do, though, as it gives you some humorous anecdotes to tell people about. My guess would be they got them in a place like Chinatown or Khao San where the people who made them aren't exactly English experts.

[Scott]

The people who produce fake degrees seem to be in a category of their own on the honesty scale. They seem to be capable of a lot of other less than lawful activities from my experience.

[aussiestyle1983]

The people who produce fake degrees seem to be in a category of their own on the honesty scale.

Nonetheless, a catagory which also includes the Thai or Foreign recruiters / department heads that in many cases encourage them to get such false items

[fire and ice]

degreediscussion dot com has an interesting forum that discusses unaccredited universities and degree mills.

I had a young yank come in once with his resume/CV and a CDRom with a scanned copy of his 'degree' from the University of Queensland! He didn't know anything about the university and he had even written on his Resume that he was working in Starbucks or somewhere in the States while he was supposed to be studying in Australia! He didn't get a job from me but he is still in Chiang Mai and is doing quite well.

Loaded, the University of South Queensland is an accredited distance learning outfit sort of like the Open University in the UK. I completed a PGCE with them previously.

Not too proud to say that I now look stupid.

ummm.

The University of Queensland and the University of South Queensland are 2 TOTALLY different unis.

jeez, now I'm totally lost

Oh, for Pete's sake:

UQ (The University of Queensland) is one of Australia's major universities.

There is no such thing as The University of South Queensland - it is called University of Southern Queensland - quite a significant difference, anyone claiming to study somewhere and getting the name of the institution wrong would not be believed. USQ is a small University by comparison with UQ.

[Carib]

Now why didnot they believe me, I had the paperwork all nice and...

[garro]

degreediscussion dot com has an interesting forum that discusses unaccredited universities and degree mills.

I had a young yank come in once with his resume/CV and a CDRom with a scanned copy of his 'degree' from the University of Queensland! He didn't know anything about the university and he had even written on his Resume that he was working in Starbucks or somewhere in the States while he was supposed to be studying in Australia! He didn't get a job from me but he is still in Chiang Mai and is doing quite well.

Loaded, the University of South Queensland is an accredited distance learning outfit sort of like the Open University in the UK. I completed a PGCE with them previously.

Not too proud to say that I now look stupid.

ummm.

The University of Queensland and the University of South Queensland are 2 TOTALLY different unis.

jeez, now I'm totally lost

Oh, for Pete's sake:

UQ (The University of Queensland) is one of Australia's major universities.

There is no such thing as The University of South Queensland - it is called University of Southern Queensland - quite a significant difference, anyone claiming to study somewhere and getting the name of the institution wrong would not be believed. USQ is a small University by comparison with UQ.

I suppose that would depend on the anal retentiveness of the person viewing the applicant. I posted University of South Queensland, but I hear people shorten the names of their university all the time. If you enter 'University of South Queensland' into google you will get the University of Southern Queensland as your first hit. The important thing is that the certificate and transcript are genuine. I hold the belief that many people receiving applicants have at least half a brain and would not be too caught up in the appropriateness of using 'south' versus 'southern' when vetting their applicant's educational background.

Edited October 13, 2008 by garro

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, let's get picky about adjectives of the compass. States of the USA include West Virginia, North Dakota. Canada has its Northwest Territories (plural). Australia has a Northern Territory, and states named South and Western. Texas, a state, does not use -ern for its regions. My daughters live in South Texas, and one of them attends Texas Southmost College. Not Texas Souternmost. Chiang Mai has a North Chiang Mai university in the southern part of the province. A thing can name itself whatever it wishes, and we are expected to refer to it correctly. I never attended any Southern Texas University, and would never make the mistake of saying so (although there is a Texas Southern University and law school). Barbara Jordan never said, "I went to Texas South Uni."

Diplomas get it right, and graduates know better. Fake graduates do not know better.

[PeaceBlondie]

A general reminder for all posters on ThaiVisa: please, rather than just replying to a very long set of replies, try to limit your remark to only the last one or two posts in the chain. Thank you

[Xangsamhua]

degreediscussion dot com has an interesting forum that discusses unaccredited universities and degree mills.

I had a young yank come in once with his resume/CV and a CDRom with a scanned copy of his 'degree' from the University of Queensland! He didn't know anything about the university and he had even written on his Resume that he was working in Starbucks or somewhere in the States while he was supposed to be studying in Australia! He didn't get a job from me but he is still in Chiang Mai and is doing quite well.

Loaded, the University of South Queensland is an accredited distance learning outfit sort of like the Open University in the UK. I completed a PGCE with them previously.

Not too proud to say that I now look stupid.

ummm.

The University of Queensland and the University of South Queensland are 2 TOTALLY different unis.

jeez, now I'm totally lost

Sorry to be pedantic, but the university referred to is not the University of South Queensland (doesn't exist), but the University of Southern Queensland, with campuses in Toowoomba and Brisbane. USQ is a highly regarded institution for distance learning, but has also an on-campus enrolment of, I think, about 10,000. USQ shared with Wollongong University the Australian University of the Year award in 2000 for their innovations in e-learning.

We shall have a group of USQ Primary Education students at our school this month for a 3-week practicum, so if anyone has any questions about distance study etc you are welcome to PM me and I can connect you with the lecturer accompanying them. A Canadian teacher at our school recently went to Toowoomba for a year to do a Master's at USQ. It was cheaper for him than going back to Canada to do it.

[aussiestyle1983]

degreediscussion dot com has an interesting forum that discusses unaccredited universities and degree mills.

I had a young yank come in once with his resume/CV and a CDRom with a scanned copy of his 'degree' from the University of Queensland! He didn't know anything about the university and he had even written on his Resume that he was working in Starbucks or somewhere in the States while he was supposed to be studying in Australia! He didn't get a job from me but he is still in Chiang Mai and is doing quite well.

Loaded, the University of South Queensland is an accredited distance learning outfit sort of like the Open University in the UK. I completed a PGCE with them previously.

Not too proud to say that I now look stupid.

ummm.

The University of Queensland and the University of South Queensland are 2 TOTALLY different unis.

jeez, now I'm totally lost

Sorry to be pedantic, but the university referred to is not the University of South Queensland (doesn't exist), but the University of Southern Queensland, with campuses in Toowoomba and Brisbane. USQ is a highly regarded institution for distance learning, but has also an on-campus enrolment of, I think, about 10,000. USQ shared with Wollongong University the Australian University of the Year award in 2000 for their innovations in e-learning.

We shall have a group of USQ Primary Education students at our school this month for a 3-week practicum, so if anyone has any questions about distance study etc you are welcome to PM me and I can connect you with the lecturer accompanying them. A Canadian teacher at our school recently went to Toowoomba for a year to do a Master's at USQ. It was cheaper for him than going back to Canada to do it.

Since you are on a roll, I thought I'd correct your Wollongong University to the correct name; University of Wollongong

[Loaded]

A general reminder for all posters on ThaiVisa: please, rather than just replying to a very long set of replies, try to limit your remark to only the last one or two posts in the chain. Thank you

Good advice.

This University of Southern Queensland exchange is silly. The next person who adds a comment to it is a kwai.

[phaethon]

In case you were thinking this problem was particular to Thailand and/or English teachers...

Iran minister faces impeachment

A senior Iranian minister faces an impeachment hearing after he admitted he faked a degree from Oxford University [sic] in the United Kingdom.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7705788.stm

A Radio 4 report on this mentioned that the certificate "contained several crude spelling mistakes".

The minister said he had been approached by an organization called The Oxford University of London offering him the honorary doctorate in Law.

Here's the fake: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/mortar...;feed=education

Knock yourselves out with the blue pencil

And here, apparently, is one of his genuine ones: http://www.flickr.com/photos/farshadebrahimi/2786052332/

(BTW Oxford University is actually the University of Oxford )

Edited November 4, 2008 by phaethon

[phaethon]

A little digging turned this up:

The production of false school exam results is not illegal, and although the forgery of degrees is against the law the process of bringing Mr Quinn to justice has proved prohibitively lengthy and expensive for the universities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/jul/05/politics.elearning

But the universities did eventually nail him for contempt of court after taking out a High Court injunction

( http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2004/o...ereducation.uk3 )

Edited November 4, 2008 by phaethon

[TerryM]

degreediscussion dot com has an interesting forum that discusses unaccredited universities and degree mills.

I had a young yank come in once with his resume/CV and a CDRom with a scanned copy of his 'degree' from the University of Queensland! He didn't know anything about the university and he had even written on his Resume that he was working in Starbucks or somewhere in the States while he was supposed to be studying in Australia! He didn't get a job from me but he is still in Chiang Mai and is doing quite well.

How dare he. I myself graduated with a Bachelor of Arts from UQ (University of Queensland), Australia. One of the best Academic Institutions in Australia. A great Sandstone and Research University. I say, if we can, we should expose all those with Dogie Degrees who attempt to pass themselves off as "University Qualified Teachers". Surely, heads of English Dept's at Thai Schools have a responsibility and indeed an obligation to check whether Degrees are false or not.

Its up to all of us as Professional Teachers I believe, to ensure that the Farang Teaching profession as it currently stands stems the tide of tainted qualifications by fraudsters.

All comments re: this post welcomed.

[meithai]

A few months ago, I applied to a college in Korat for a Tjob. I am qualified with 10 yrs experience, certificate in hand & recent, 04 genuine degree from the UK. As I had kept my certificates framed on the wall of my office previously & also filed away in a stiff envelope, they were still in perfect condition. I had taken good care of them as they are extremely valuable documents to me..... Well, the Thai interviewers insulted me four times by saying that my documents look like they were made last week. That infurrianted me, the arrogant & rude Bas***rds, but then again I bet they had seen loads of applications from unqualified falang Ass**oles from the UNI of KSR.

[dunrudin]

degreediscussion dot com has an interesting forum that discusses unaccredited universities and degree mills.

I had a young yank come in once with his resume/CV and a CDRom with a scanned copy of his 'degree' from the University of Queensland! He didn't know anything about the university and he had even written on his Resume that he was working in Starbucks or somewhere in the States while he was supposed to be studying in Australia! He didn't get a job from me but he is still in Chiang Mai and is doing quite well.

How dare he. I myself graduated with a Bachelor of Arts from UQ (University of Queensland), Australia. One of the best Academic Institutions in Australia. A great Sandstone and Research University. I say, if we can, we should expose all those with Dogie Degrees who attempt to pass themselves off as "University Qualified Teachers". Surely, heads of English Dept's at Thai Schools have a responsibility and indeed an obligation to check whether Degrees are false or not.

Its up to all of us as Professional Teachers I believe, to ensure that the Farang Teaching profession as it currently stands stems the tide of tainted qualifications by fraudsters.

All comments re: this post welcomed.

Would a "Dogie" degree have anything to do with livestock (in particular, cattle), management?

[PeaceBlondie]

Read Loaded's statement again. A young Yank came in. Not an Aussie. He knew nothing about the Australian degree he claimed to have earned, and his CV said he was working at a Starbucks in the States at the time. In other words, nothing he said made sense.

[aussiestyle1983]

A few months ago, I applied to a college in Korat for a Tjob. I am qualified with 10 yrs experience, certificate in hand & recent, 04 genuine degree from the UK. As I had kept my certificates framed on the wall of my office previously & also filed away in a stiff envelope, they were still in perfect condition. I had taken good care of them as they are extremely valuable documents to me..... Well, the Thai interviewers insulted me four times by saying that my documents look like they were made last week. That infurrianted me, the arrogant & rude Bas***rds, but then again I bet they had seen loads of applications from unqualified falang Ass**oles from the UNI of KSR.

People who take good care of their certificates and diplomas do so most likely because they put a lot into earning them. I know quite a few Thai's with degrees that would require the same ammount of work and intelligence as a high school student in the West; one person lost her degree (diploma) and said she wasn't interested in obtaining a new one? Okay. Perhaps because they put so little effort into their own degree, they take little care of the paper that doccuments it and doubts those who actually had to put in the hard yards and take care of their papers. Afterall, it is not to hard to frame a diploma and keep it in mint condition; Thais might rather prefer to spent the few hundred baht a good frame would cost on alcohol? When I finish uni, and if I ever teach in Thailand again, my degree (diploma) will be framed when I need to show it to anyone. I don't want suspicious people tampering with it and trying to deconstruct it. If anyone ever asks me to take it out of the frame I will tell them where to go... Mai pen rai, contact the uni if you have a problem, if not, I'd prefer to look for work elsewhere

[otherstuff1957]

^ Not Necessarily! I graduated from Stanford, one of the top 10 Universities in the world. I left most of my important papers with my mother thinking that they would be safer there. After she had a stroke, I couldn't find (and never did find) my Birth Certificate or my B.S!

[aussiestyle1983]

^ thinking that they would be safer there.

Exactally what I meant! You did what you did to protect them (you weren't to know what was going to happen to them).

Edited November 8, 2008 by aussiestyle1983

[phaethon]

Would a "Dogie" degree have anything to do with livestock (in particular, cattle), management?

Leave the poor English teacher alone, he can't help it

[phaethon]

Turning the tables from East to West:

Dozens of foreign [mostly Chinese] students have been told to leave Newcastle University after the certificates they used to gain entry were found to be forged.

...

"We would strongly advise other universities to look very carefully at the systems they have in place to detect fraudulent applications"

Newcastle University

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/7722943.stm

[Loaded]

Turning the tables from East to West:

Dozens of foreign [mostly Chinese] students have been told to leave Newcastle University after the certificates they used to gain entry were found to be forged.

...

"We would strongly advise other universities to look very carefully at the systems they have in place to detect fraudulent applications"

Newcastle University

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/tyne/7722943.stm

IELTS has a big problem in China with cheating Chinese.

[Viking7113]

The fake degree industry is a real problem. Would you like to be operated on by a doctor or dentist with a fake degree? I read in the Post the other day about a business student in Thailand who passed himself off as a dentist. The best fake I have seen and still chuckle at is one from "The Sheffield United Bachelor of Arts" You would think he would have chose a premier league club!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

I need to watch out for a degree from the Univ. of Nebraska at Cornhusker. Or Alaskan Husky Dog University.

[tig28]

degreediscussion dot com has an interesting forum that discusses unaccredited universities and degree mills.

I had a young yank come in once with his resume/CV and a CDRom with a scanned copy of his 'degree' from the University of Queensland! He didn't know anything about the university and he had even written on his Resume that he was working in Starbucks or somewhere in the States while he was supposed to be studying in Australia! He didn't get a job from me but he is still in Chiang Mai and is doing quite well.

Loaded, the University of South Queensland is an accredited distance learning outfit sort of like the Open University in the UK. I completed a PGCE with them previously.

Not too proud to say that I now look stupid.

ummm.

The University of Queensland and the University of South Queensland are 2 TOTALLY different unis.

jeez, now I'm totally lost

One organizations version of world university rankings:

The Australian Universities which made the top 100 are:

• 16. Australian National University (ANU)
  
• 37. University of Sydney
  
• 38. University of Melbourne
  
• 42. University of Queensland (founded 100 years ago--- with some EXCEPTIONAL grads. )
  
• 45. University of NSW
  
• 47. Monash University
  
• 83. University of Western Australia
  
• 106. University of Adelaide
  
• 182. Macquarie University
  

And not to worry ---there is a University of Southern Queensland also.