Totally Frustrated With Stupid People

[surinmike]

oh i love the country and after 16 years of coming to Surin its good to here that these parts and people have not changed at all,so chief...live with it or get some cheeese for your whine......

[farangconnection]

But in most cases the Thais are perfectly right.

Last week I decided our menu's needed up-grading, and I had seen the perfect menu's belonging to a local Prawn Restaurant. I borrowed the book and went along to the local supplier, who I knew stock these things by the thousand. It was a covered folder with 20 plastic pages inside to fit your menu pages in.

I showed them the basic book, and was greeted by the usual Mai Mee. I took the manager and her assistant and showed them where the books were. Thousands of them. Of course the manager pointed out to me that these did not have dishes from the Prawn restaurant inside.

See what I mean. Perfectly right.

[prakhonchai nick]

UPDATE

1) Car Aircon.

Whilst deliberating upon my next move re the air con, I suffered a loss of engine power and took the car to the local garage for new spark plugs. problem solved. But when they tested the car the boss commented on the unsatisfactory aircon. He produced all the parts necessary to repair it, and did it there and then. Total cost 2000bt as against Toyota's 5200bt for parts + labour + tax.. Now working perfectly - as new.

2) IPSTAR

Despite saying I had no problem, the engineer arrived Monday - unannounced- and checked the thing over. Even though he could open only 1 web site he nevertheless stated once again "No problem" However, for a temporary period (not sure how long) I have been upgraded to 500+mps. Download speed still very low, but at least web sites are opening.

So to all the naysayers I would say it does pay to complain, and also to shop around.

[affen02]

i understand, most days i come to town with one problem and i go home with five. good luck with ac

[artbottomup]

I've only lived in Isaan for a year now having come from the USA. I've gone through similar frustrating situations (yes, I have ipStar). However, I often stop to remind myself that this is Thailand (not the USA or anywhere else) & regardless of all this, we made the big decision to live here...nobody forced us. Yes, there is a lot of crap to take at times, but let's not forget the reasons why we decided to move here in the first place. Hence, I've quickly learned the mantra, "The Thai way or the highway..." Our choice... Hope you get your car's AC fixed & hope ipStar becomes more reliable. Chok dee kup...

[Dave the Dude]

I've only lived in Isaan for a year now having come from the USA. I've gone through similar frustrating situations (yes, I have ipStar). However, I often stop to remind myself that this is Thailand (not the USA or anywhere else) & regardless of all this, we made the big decision to live here...nobody forced us. Yes, there is a lot of crap to take at times, but let's not forget the reasons why we decided to move here in the first place. Hence, I've quickly learned the mantra, "The Thai way or the highway..." Our choice... Hope you get your car's AC fixed & hope ipStar becomes more reliable. Chok dee kup...

Sensible approach&post from Mr(orMrs) artbottomup

and good luck with the AC & IPStar

Dave

[prakhonchai nick]

I've only lived in Isaan for a year now having come from the USA. I've gone through similar frustrating situations (yes, I have ipStar). However, I often stop to remind myself that this is Thailand (not the USA or anywhere else) & regardless of all this, we made the big decision to live here...nobody forced us. Yes, there is a lot of crap to take at times, but let's not forget the reasons why we decided to move here in the first place. Hence, I've quickly learned the mantra, "The Thai way or the highway..." Our choice... Hope you get your car's AC fixed & hope ipStar becomes more reliable. Chok dee kup...

Sensible approach&post from Mr(orMrs) artbottomup

and good luck with the AC & IPStar

Dave

Whilst I agree, it is not just us foreigners who have to put up with bad service. We are the minority, yet by complaining, we are helping not only ourselves but the Thai majority. If people don't complain (as most Thais choose not to do) then crap service will always be what's available in Thailand.

TOT and CS Loxinfo both know that their IPSTAR service is pretty useless, yet they choose to market it and have it oversubscribed, rather than try and improve it. If most accept it and happily pay for it, why bother to change?

[Totster]

Whilst I agree, it is not just us foreigners who have to put up with bad service. We are the minority, yet by complaining, we are helping not only ourselves but the Thai majority. If people don't complain (as most Thais choose not to do) then crap service will always be what's available in Thailand.

TOT and CS Loxinfo both know that their IPSTAR service is pretty useless, yet they choose to market it and have it oversubscribed, rather than try and improve it. If most accept it and happily pay for it, why bother to change?

Nick,

While I am happy that you seem to have had better luck than most with TOT, I would hardly consider it a win, or that it has paid for you to complain.

The truth is that the service is still substandard even after the temporary upgrade, and the engineer has again told you there is no problem, even after seeing it for himself.

With business people are free to choose to use a service or product that they think is good, any services or products that don't meet consumers standards will not be used. The problem with CrapStar is that most users do not have any alternatives, and I'm sure TOT know this, which is why they can be complacent. If people are paying for the service even when it does not meet standards because they have no other choice, where is the incentive for TOT to improve.

One last point, you made the point about us being the minority and we are helping ourselves and Thais by complaining. Well I do complain where necessary, and sometimes it gets an improvement in service, but if only the minority are complaining then I wonder if we are seen as being unreasonable, after all the majority who are Thai are seemingly quite happy with the service.....

Totster

[RayBan]

Whilst I agree, it is not just us foreigners who have to put up with bad service. We are the minority, yet by complaining, we are helping not only ourselves but the Thai majority. If people don't complain (as most Thais choose not to do) then crap service will always be what's available in Thailand.

TOT and CS Loxinfo both know that their IPSTAR service is pretty useless, yet they choose to market it and have it oversubscribed, rather than try and improve it. If most accept it and happily pay for it, why bother to change?

Nick,

While I am happy that you seem to have had better luck than most with TOT, I would hardly consider it a win, or that it has paid for you to complain.

The truth is that the service is still substandard even after the temporary upgrade, and the engineer has again told you there is no problem, even after seeing it for himself.

With business people are free to choose to use a service or product that they think is good, any services or products that don't meet consumers standards will not be used. The problem with CrapStar is that most users do not have any alternatives, and I'm sure TOT know this, which is why they can be complacent. If people are paying for the service even when it does not meet standards because they have no other choice, where is the incentive for TOT to improve.

One last point, you made the point about us being the minority and we are helping ourselves and Thais by complaining. Well I do complain where necessary, and sometimes it gets an improvement in service, but if only the minority are complaining then I wonder if we are seen as being unreasonable, after all the majority who are Thai are seemingly quite happy with the service.....

Totster

I have been continually returning to this post with interest, as although it seems at initial face value to be totally insignificant other than a whinge by a local farang, really it has produced quite a neighbourly response from others in similar circumstances.

Prakhonchai Nick is one of my closest friends in the area, I think I know him well. Therefore I am pretty sure that his bitch is not about money, he is certainly not a whiner and for sure he is not one of these guys who rants and raves about the differences between our western standards and the Thai way.

He is though a man of principal, whether it be in the world we left behind, or here in Thailand. Because I know him well, I take the liberty on this thread to say with confidence that Nick understands the Thai way more than most of us. I am a short timer, just 8 years in LOS, but my mind has always been open and I too have started dare I say to understand the Thai way.

I beg to disrespectfully differ with you Totster when you say "While I am happy that you seem to have had better luck than most with TOT, I would hardly consider it a win, or that it has paid for you to complain". ................. That was most certainly a win. Thai mentality cannot allow loss of face, this is not an individual thing, it is an institution of Thai tradition and inbred practice. I am positive that the IPstar engineer was aware that there was a problem, couldn't fix it, but because Nick handled the situation correctly, the engineer felt obligated to recompense him. That may sound like a load of cr*p to some, but for the not so understanding.............well that really is the Thai way.

My statement is not about complaining, it is about how one handles a protest or disagreement. For sure you will not get anywhere if one goes beating the western drum. Most Thai people do remonstrate at injustices, but in a way we as Europeans will never perceive or understand, it is subtle and concealed in their own way. Do not ever underestimate them....................if loss of face is involved..............they will bite back "BIG TIME!!"

Take care everyone

[johnsurin]

Whilst I agree, it is not just us foreigners who have to put up with bad service. We are the minority, yet by complaining, we are helping not only ourselves but the Thai majority. If people don't complain (as most Thais choose not to do) then crap service will always be what's available in Thailand.

TOT and CS Loxinfo both know that their IPSTAR service is pretty useless, yet they choose to market it and have it oversubscribed, rather than try and improve it. If most accept it and happily pay for it, why bother to change?

Nick,

While I am happy that you seem to have had better luck than most with TOT, I would hardly consider it a win, or that it has paid for you to complain.

The truth is that the service is still substandard even after the temporary upgrade, and the engineer has again told you there is no problem, even after seeing it for himself.

With business people are free to choose to use a service or product that they think is good, any services or products that don't meet consumers standards will not be used. The problem with CrapStar is that most users do not have any alternatives, and I'm sure TOT know this, which is why they can be complacent. If people are paying for the service even when it does not meet standards because they have no other choice, where is the incentive for TOT to improve.

One last point, you made the point about us being the minority and we are helping ourselves and Thais by complaining. Well I do complain where necessary, and sometimes it gets an improvement in service, but if only the minority are complaining then I wonder if we are seen as being unreasonable, after all the majority who are Thai are seemingly quite happy with the service.....

Totster

I have been continually returning to this post with interest, as although it seems at initial face value to be totally insignificant other than a whinge by a local farang, really it has produced quite a neighbourly response from others in similar circumstances.

Prakhonchai Nick is one of my closest friends in the area, I think I know him well. Therefore I am pretty sure that his bitch is not about money, he is certainly not a whiner and for sure he is not one of these guys who rants and raves about the differences between our western standards and the Thai way.

He is though a man of principal, whether it be in the world we left behind, or here in Thailand. Because I know him well, I take the liberty on this thread to say with confidence that Nick understands the Thai way more than most of us. I am a short timer, just 8 years in LOS, but my mind has always been open and I too have started dare I say to understand the Thai way.

I beg to disrespectfully differ with you Totster when you say "While I am happy that you seem to have had better luck than most with TOT, I would hardly consider it a win, or that it has paid for you to complain". ................. That was most certainly a win. Thai mentality cannot allow loss of face, this is not an individual thing, it is an institution of Thai tradition and inbred practice. I am positive that the IPstar engineer was aware that there was a problem, couldn't fix it, but because Nick handled the situation correctly, the engineer felt obligated to recompense him. That may sound like a load of cr*p to some, but for the not so understanding.............well that really is the Thai way.

My statement is not about complaining, it is about how one handles a protest or disagreement. For sure you will not get anywhere if one goes beating the western drum. Most Thai people do remonstrate at injustices, but in a way we as Europeans will never perceive or understand, it is subtle and concealed in their own way. Do not ever underestimate them....................if loss of face is involved..............they will bite back "BIG TIME!!"

Take care everyone

What a superb, well rounded and sensible post.

I myself have just had a similar problem in the UK with my broadband service, and, after having spent over 40 minutes on the phone, talking very politely (I might add), I had the same response from so called "tech support" there's nothing wrong with our service they said, obviously trying to fob me off.

After telling them I also have mobile broadband that I can switch too, and, that has no problems so obviously the problem is their line they finally backed down, done a few more test and hey presto. Finally, they admitted that there was a problem with their line.

Hence the moral of the story. Sometimes there's no point shouting and screaming just be polite and listen to their trained verbal buffalo sh*t. Yet, being cleverer and more patient than the sub-human troglodite on the end of the phone you can always turn it into a (so called) winning situation.

Oh, just remembered Totster trains them to be that way.

John.....

[Totster]

I beg to disrespectfully differ with you Totster when you say "While I am happy that you seem to have had better luck than most with TOT, I would hardly consider it a win, or that it has paid for you to complain". ................. That was most certainly a win. Thai mentality cannot allow loss of face, this is not an individual thing, it is an institution of Thai tradition and inbred practice. I am positive that the IPstar engineer was aware that there was a problem, couldn't fix it, but because Nick handled the situation correctly, the engineer felt obligated to recompense him. That may sound like a load of cr*p to some, but for the not so understanding.............well that really is the Thai way.

My statement is not about complaining, it is about how one handles a protest or disagreement. For sure you will not get anywhere if one goes beating the western drum. Most Thai people do remonstrate at injustices, but in a way we as Europeans will never perceive or understand, it is subtle and concealed in their own way. Do not ever underestimate them....................if loss of face is involved..............they will bite back "BIG TIME!!"

Take care everyone

Thanks for your reply Rayban.

I wholeheartedly agree with your comments regarding the way a situation is handled greatly affects the outcome in Thailand, but also throughout the rest of the world. Problems are rarely solved by shouting, threatening and losing ones temper where ever you are, but yes.. Thailand is definitely more complicated.

While I concede that PN may have had what could be called a win, please consider this - I would imagine that even with the upgrade to 512, PN is still not getting the 256 download speed he is paying for, especially during business hours. This means that the show of goodwill from TOT is worthless. But at least they didn't loose face !

And btw, hats off to Prakonchai Nick for persevering with it.. it does us all good to have a moan sometimes and quite entitled to it also. I reckon the reason for the neighbourly responses is that we all have and are still facing the same challenges of living in paradise due to differences in culture etc... All part of the experience I suppose

Oh, just remembered Totster trains them to be that way.

John.....

Yes, I may have a little experience when it comes to customer support...

Totster

[prakhonchai nick]

I would like to express my thanks to Rayban for his support, and to Totster for his concession. Also to Claus Frank who took much time and trouble to introduce me to an air con specialist (albeit not too helpful) and to Thaddeus who introduced me to EDGE, which may result in my being able to ditch IPstar in the forseeable future. Thai Visa Forums have provided many members with invaluable advice and long may they continue to do so.

Totster is indeed correct in saying that even with an upgrade to 512, I still get nowhere near the 256 I am paying for (except around 8pm when I am almost there) During the daytime, I am lucky to get a download speed of 45/50! But even that is better than before, and web sites do now reluctantly open. So yes, I see it technically as a win, but I am likely to be put back on 256 within a few days unless I agree to pay the higher fee (which I will not do).

Edited October 16, 2008 by prakhonchai nick