Uk Or Thailand

[vrsushi]

My friend was planning to come and live in Thailand but I think he has been a bit spooked by the recent exchange rate movements. So what do the forum members think.

He retires this year at 65. He has no assets whatsoever, but no debt. No family either. He will collect a gov pension of roughly 450GBP a month. He is a likeable guy, a non smoker, a moderate drinker. He exercises daily and apart from a bad back has no history of illness. He never wastes money. He would need to live in a city as he does have a need for some kind of intellectual stimulation that I don't think he could find in some Thai village. He would like to have a girlfriend though no desire to pay for play.

If he lives in the UK the gov would pay his rent and of course there is the free hospitals and bus pass. In Thailand rent would come out of the 450GBP

But currently 450GBP is only 25000bht.

He does have a 5000GBP bailout fund that he would use as a medical fund in Thailand with the last 1000 being a plane back to the UK.

So do you think he should live in the UK or come and live in Thailand?

[vrsushi]

Please remember, this is not a "can you be happy on 25kbht post. This is a where should a retiree on a UK govpension live?

[citizen33]

I'd say that on 25,000 per month things would be too tight for comfort, especially if the exchange rate worsened any further. The medical aspect is a big worry for most older expats, though the costs of routine treatments are cheap. Also the UK pension will not be increased with inflation because Thailand is a country where this does not apply. I do know one man in a similar situation, who built up a greater comfort margin by doing part-time English teaching in a school (no qualifications), but this is in a smaller NE city. P.S wrote this before seeing post 2 but I will leave it as it is.

Edited October 12, 2008 by citizen33

[CroBiker]

25k baht? Better stay in UK.

[vrsushi]

Ah thansk for bringing up the lack of inflation adjustment for pensions. But my friend is willing to assume that the UK gov wont find him out and besides every 5 years he would go back to the UK and stay a week or two with his friend which would legally put him back onto the current pension anyways.

Yes 450 is tight......but then surely its even tighter in the UK? Even given the rent he will have to pay in Thailand.

[Chaimai]

I don't think it is enough for Thailand and his success in the Pattaya Darby & Joan club will be limited on that sort of money.

BUT - how the hel_l will he manage in the UK ?

If he has lead such a (relatively) frugal life, how come he has <deleted> all to show for it at 65 - no works pension ?

[Dave the Dude]

Ah thansk for bringing up the lack of inflation adjustment for pensions. But my friend is willing to assume that the UK gov wont find him out and besides every 5 years he would go back to the UK and stay a week or two with his friend which would legally put him back onto the current pension anyways.

Yes 450 is tight......but then surely its even tighter in the UK? Even given the rent he will have to pay in Thailand.

Hi vrsushi

As you say yourself GBP450 per month will be tight and I would suggest that is likely not to be enough particularly if he want to live in a city. I live in Rural N.E. Thailand where life is cheaper and could'nt cope with that figure.

You say he is willing to live here 'under the HMRC radar' then why not suggest to him to get a 6 month visa and have a 'dry run.' There is nothing like first hand experience especially comparing it to advise from 'strangers'

I wish him good luck BTW

Dave

[dumball]

Ah thansk for bringing up the lack of inflation adjustment for pensions. But my friend is willing to assume that the UK gov wont find him out and besides every 5 years he would go back to the UK and stay a week or two with his friend which would legally put him back onto the current pension anyways.

Yes 450 is tight......but then surely its even tighter in the UK? Even given the rent he will have to pay in Thailand.

That is as maybe , but he has all kinds of safety nets in the UK , but absolutely none in Thailand , as to going back every 5 years , this will not cut the custard , assume nothing . Should he have subsidised accomodation which he retains on coming to Thailand , a friend he signs up as 'Power of attorney' to look after his banking , he may stand a chance , but I HATE CHEATERS , they are a blight on society , advise him to stay where he is .

[vrsushi]

He was a small business owner who had a good life for 30 years but then he got hit. The business went bankrupt. He lost a lot in a divorce and he spent 10's of thousands on a hospital bill for his son who eventually died in America without medical insurance.

Dumball....the 5k is his safety net. Not much but it would get hime back to the UK. He is not a cheater either. He wouldn't have any place in the UK and his pension which goes into his Nationwide bank account would be his only tie to the country.

[bendix]

What about visa issues? He wouldnt qualify for a retirement visa on that income, and his cash fund isnt enough to satisfy the capital requirement either. I certainly wouldnt relish perpetual visa runs at that age.

[MrPot]

Absolutley mad to come over here on a 25,000 k, better off to stay in the UK; will not even get a retirement visa. Maybe he should try Cornwall they have palm trees down there too.

[Ricardo]

Ah thansk for bringing up the lack of inflation adjustment for pensions. But my friend is willing to assume that the UK gov wont find him out and besides every 5 years he would go back to the UK and stay a week or two with his friend which would legally put him back onto the current pension anyways.

Yes 450 is tight......but then surely its even tighter in the UK? Even given the rent he will have to pay in Thailand.

That is as maybe , but he has all kinds of safety nets in the UK , but absolutely none in Thailand , as to going back every 5 years , this will not cut the custard , assume nothing . Should he have subsidised accomodation which he retains on coming to Thailand , a friend he signs up as 'Power of attorney' to look after his banking , he may stand a chance , but I HATE CHEATERS , they are a blight on society , advise him to stay where he is .

I recommend that he puts his banking onto an online-account basis, rather than hand it over to a friend, he should continue to act for himself.

I'm positive that he will, on a minimum government-pension, have a pretty poor life back in the UK, but it wouldn't be that great here either. "No Money ... No Honey" !

I would definitely recommend an exploratory-trip, perhaps for 3-6 months, to find out how he can expect to live here, on that little money. I would also recommend, at least short-term, getting a job to boost his savings or spending-money for the trip. Just because he is 65 years old, doesn't mean he can't work in security or shelf-stacking or B&Q. He might even meet a rich widow !

Edited October 12, 2008 by Ricardo

[terrier123]

What about visa issues? He wouldnt qualify for a retirement visa on that income, and his cash fund isnt enough to satisfy the capital requirement either. I certainly wouldnt relish perpetual visa runs at that age.

Sadly he MUST stay in the UK and possibly enjoy 2 winter months out here every year. Already 65 so a bit optimistic to plan a trip to UK every 5 years. I think most of us struggle on more than double his amount.

[pop_corn]

I think is better to be poor in your own country than poor, lonely and far from home. Who will take care of him if he gets ill? a bar girl? naaaaaaaaaaah... minimum they will rip him off the short money he have, he will end up depressed, alone, poor and wanting to go back. Stay there, it is safer.

[spiderman2]

On average he has another 10yrs to live, he might aswell enjoy them days in LOS then spend the rest of his days waiting to die in Blighty.

Wherever he is he is going to be fairly skint so IMO its better to be skint in the sunshine.

[Gary A]

I could live on 25,000 baht per month, BUT, it cost me several million baht to get set up this way. I'm afraid that's cutting it entirely too close.

[Gravelrash]

Isaan will be more cost effective, Even in Chiang Mai you can rent at 5k including electric and internet, That leaves 5k a week to socialize and eat...it is doable. Don't really know how comfortable he would be in the UK on that. Find some part time teaching to help out.

I am sure he is a rational adult and can do the numbers.

[denboy]

Isaan will be more cost effective, Even in Chiang Mai you can rent at 5k including electric and internet, That leaves 5k a week to socialize and eat...it is doable. Don't really know how comfortable he would be in the UK on that. Find some part time teaching to help out.

I am sure he is a rational adult and can do the numbers.

He will never have comfortable time here on that amount. at his age he needs to have nedical insurance even it is only Thailand cover, that will put a big hole in his pension.

As for misleading the pension service, forget it, when they catch up you have to pay any annual increments back to them.( I speak from experience).

better he saves a little of his pension and do's the three to four month winter break over here, that way he will stay in UK compliance.Hopefully the exchange rate will creep back up after the govenment get their act together and he can revaluate again prehaps next year.

Good luck

[Penkoprod]

Anything above a minimum State Pension (and, going on the OPs figures of £450 a month that IS above it) and this so called safety net starts to get threadbare more and more. Yes, he may well get rent paid, and possibly some help towards Council Tax, but any other help will depend on his means......which, according to the figures stated is more than the minimum.

He will soon be too old to get any health related benefits like IB or DLA (for which you need to be at deaths dood to qualify for tbh)

In short, he is fuc_ked. i am afraid to say, no matter where he lives. He's already into whats called fuel poverty, and, with the arse about to fall out of the economy i fear for people like him tbh.

Its OK people saying he should save up a little each month and come over for a short time each year, but i would like to see ANYONE save a viable ammount out of a weekly pension of just over £100 a week, in order to funs a holiday ANYWHERE. The plane fare alone would eat up about 5 weeks full pension, <deleted>!!!!

Is there no way he could get SOME sort of work, to supplement his pension....even at his age?

That, IMO would be the only way out of this horrible mess life has pushed him into.

Penkoprod

[simon43]

What about relocating within the EU to a wamer climate? If he stayed within the EU, then his pension would be index-linked and so increase each year in line with inflation. A warmer climate in southern Europe would mean no heating bills. Plus it's the EU, so no visa problems and able to work if necessary without work permits etc.

There are still some cheap places to be found. I spent a few years living in the French Pyrenees. The mayor of the village where I lived would literally give away empty farm houses to anyone who was willing to live in his village...

Simon

PS- But I don't recall seeing any local 'babes', only toothless old women

[G54]

Have to agree with what Penkoprod said.

Life can be sh*t. Living on £100 a week with the current risies of food, heating and electric in the UK is extremely difficult. Then to expect the guy to save some of that to fund time here in LOS is asking almost the impossible. And if he gets caught living here and not notifying the government dept in the UK, he will then be prosecuted and have to pay back any monies.

He would be better off having the odd week away on a coach trip to somewhere in Europe.

Work? He could get work. Maybe part time. As others have said in B&Q or similar. Tescos also hire older, more reliable people for some work. That seems his best option. Either that or win the lottery and the odds of winning the lottery are 14 million to one or something?.

[Jingthing]

He does not qualify for a Thailand retirement visa. There are alternatives for people with lower incomes and no assets such as your friend where he could qualify for legal retirement residence. Some ideas: Nicaragua, Panama, and Ecuador. He doesn't even have enough to qualify for Mexico though. Panama is probably the best of that list for creature comforts and safety but also not that cheap and he wouldn't be rich there, but could get by living la vida local. The plus side is that Spanish is easier to learn than Thai.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Jingthing

[dumball]

You know , i posted an extensive account of how i lived comfortably on this low income as i am a 2 finger typist , it was quite time consuming , where did it go ?

Hey mods , can you find this hidden some place and repost it , not asking for a miracle .

In my profession i told customers , the imposible i do at once , miracles take a litle longer .

Patience is one of my virtues .

[Brigante7]

I'd say that on 25,000 per month things would be too tight for comfort, especially if the exchange rate worsened any further. The medical aspect is a big worry for most older expats, though the costs of routine treatments are cheap. Also the UK pension will not be increased with inflation because Thailand is a country where this does not apply. I do know one man in a similar situation, who built up a greater comfort margin by doing part-time English teaching in a school (no qualifications), but this is in a smaller NE city. P.S wrote this before seeing post 2 but I will leave it as it is.

If he opens a Nationwide account to get his pension paid into then he will get the inflation increases and use his cashline card in Thailand.

Not 100% legal but if he's paid his NI contributions all his working life then why not?

Edited October 12, 2008 by Brigante7

[desertrat]

A WALK ALONG THE BEACH ROAD (caps lock sorry) Promenade in Pattaya demonstrates how many of the luckless and foolhardy are here.There appear to be many nationalities, clearly boracic. Perhaps a sociological survey along there ?. On the other hand there are retired expats whose sole activity, (besides waiting to die), is to go to their meetings for the week's buffet leftovers, and anxiously seek advice on where they might get a cheap deal on false teeth repairs.Both seem to be existing in their own purgatories...But as someone said "There but for the grace of god, Go I" Of course Burns "Wad the gift thepower gie us, to see worsels as others see us"

Edited October 12, 2008 by desertrat

[Dave the Dude]

A WALK ALONG THE BEACH ROAD (caps lock sorry) Promenade in Pattaya demonstrates how many of the luckless and foolhardy are here.There appear to be many nationalities, clearly boracic. Perhaps a sociological survey along there ?. On the other hand there are retired expats whose sole activity, (besides waiting to die), is to go to their meetings for the week's buffet leftovers, and anxiously seek advice on where they might get a cheap deal on false teeth repairs.Both seem to be existing in their own purgatories...But as someone said "There but for the grace of god, Go I" Of course Burns "Wad the gift thepower gie us, to see worsels as others see us"

I'd still prefer that type of lifestyle (as an ol' Git) than live in The United Kingdom of Benifits.

Dave

[Ricardo]

Of course Burns "Wad the gift thepower gie us, to see worsels as others see us"

Burns was a Geordie ?

[ignis]

Unlike the UK here has plenty of busses...

Also unlike the UK, the more you go away for a City/large Town the cheaper it is..

OK I own a car and house, but in this area there are that I know personally 2 English and a Dutch that rent + go everywhere by bus, and another that owns his house but cannot drive..

Rents for an Appartment are 2- 3,000, Bungalow or Townhouse 2,500 -4,000 even Detached houses 5 - 6,000 per month. these are very good places with all mod cons, some are even brand new......... just a warning/thought renting an appartment is difficult to have a phone/internet connection + you get charged by the owner for water & Electric [= much higher]

There is a Service charge for public lighting, cleaning, rubish collection, repairs, pool if there is one etc... [while I was waiting for my house to be built I rented a Condo for 6 months, the Service charge was 980 baht... now in my own house for over 4 years, the service charge here is 500 baht per month]

Almost all Villages have a 7/11, some have Tesco Express, most have a local market a couple of times a week..

The cost of living is 1/2 that of a City

I don't think he could live in a City on a UK pension, but could live well out in the sticks.

On the main road about 8km away near 'Bang Bua Thong' they have been working hard for the past 6 months under the road + buildings this in a year or so will be the end station for the Metro underground, so maybe the rented prices will go up as it would make it easier and fast to get to BKK

[ThaiPauly]

At some stage he is gonna get sick...thats really gonna cost him.

As has previuosly been stated, at least he won't have any medical bills in the UK.

Getting old and dying can be an expensive business out here. Even if he could get insurance ,at his age the payments would just be too much

Personally I think the idea is out of the question for him...unfortunatley

[G54]

I'd still prefer that type of lifestyle (as an ol' Git) than live in The United Kingdom of Benifits.

Dave

At least in the UKOB he will have the benefit of help. If he needs it he can get IS top ups. He will get his free health care. Help with his bills. If his falsies do break he can get them fixed for free. In his case maybe also free prescriptions.

Then - as Bedix said - (OOps! I am in agreement with him????) What about visa runs? Paying the 'extras' over the border to get his visa stamped. Then there is the money to fly back to the UK to get his new 'O' visa. Now the 'O' visa is over £100 - a weeks money to him. The return flight, 7 weeks money.

Maybe he could go to Spain or wherever has a reciprocal agreement with the UK on health and benefits but I am sure he would find that a struggle too.