Cambodia Threatens War With Thailand Within 24 Hours

[bergen]

How intolerable that a pipsqueak country like Cambodia should contemplate the military might of Thailand.Do they not understand what would be in store for them?They should bear in mind what happened last time when an inferior former vassal state i.e Laos took on the finest of Thailand's military......Oh well, perhaps that's not a very good example.

i think you may have answered my question..................

Surely the miltary force and equipment in Cambodia doesnt

even come close to that in Thailand.? Do they have an airforce and

have they bought any decent equipment in Cambodia even for their army ?

NO , but word is out to the local ears , China and Vietnam have huge investment in Cambodia , and Hun SEn is not the brightest spark in the fire , but he is not stupid when it comes to armed confrontation . Sgtpeppers , what makes you think Thais have a strajegic advantage ? they are on the low land and it is all jungle where they sit , large guns and tanks are useless in jungle warfare .

The Thais are not on low land....................unless the Cambodians choose to fight from the top of the temple

[jdinasia]

NO , but word is out to the local ears , China and Vietnam have huge investment in Cambodia , and Hun SEn is not the brightest spark in the fire , but he is not stupid when it comes to armed confrontation . Sgtpeppers , what makes you think Thais have a strajegic advantage ? they are on the low land and it is all jungle where they sit , large guns and tanks are useless in jungle warfare .

Better take a look at the geography there ......... wrong again

[bergen]

How is this solution(s)- Why not destroy the whole temple instead of lives or just devide it into two halves, one for Thailand, one for Combodia?! Funny how it shows when people think material things are worth more than life.

The dispute is not over the temple , but a mere piece of scrubland .

Actually it is about neither.

Hun Sen and Taksin are long-time business buddies and have a "sweetheart" deal for the development of the temple site for their mutual (personal) enrichment. Among many other deals.

The Taksin-affiliated government is beset by internal troubles, as we all know. They asked their friend Hun Sen to help them stage a diversion. He's willing to because he and his cronies have a financial stake in how the Thai political crisis ends.

Hiowever, what they've staged can easily spin out of control. Nationalist sentiments on both sides of the border run high.

It would be interesting to have some source backup on this statement........especially since it comes from a sup mod!

[Scott]

I think people have to remember that there are different 'fronts' to this situation. The politicians and the generals may have one thing to say, but the situation on the ground may be very different. Soldiers do things like accidently shoot weapons, or shoot at something moving in the bushes. The otherside sees this as hostile fire. Soldier's also stray in their patrols. And sometimes, they deliberately provoke the other side, just to end the boredom.

I was once in a conflict area in the Middle East and all my possessions were on the other side of a closed border. Made arrangements for the stuff to be brought to the well guarded and closed border, so it could be gotten accross. Waited for hours, but it didn't come. Finally one of the soldiers asked what I was doing and I told him. I also told him the officials in the capital would not grant permission to cross. His remark was, "I control this border, they don't. Go ahead and cross." He wasn't a high ranking official either.

[bulmercke]

The days of constantly moving borders has come to an end. The area in dispute falls in Cambodian territory making a far stretch to be considered Thai. Besides, as I understand it Thailand failed to represent their case in the UNESCO decision, missing all deadlines and extensions to file the papers needed to participate in the process.

If Thais are on Cambodian soil and refusing to retreat when asked to, they are only asking for an escalation. How can a government be so high on itself, to risk the lives of its citizens, its reputation on a world stage.

I love Thailand, but they continue to baffle me with their unique form of logic.

Sorry Thai people.....but on this one you're in the wrong.........good post........

[AlKing]

I listen to Sonthi speaks tonight. This guy is constantly asking the Thai to use its superior arms against Cambodia. It has been suggested that a couple of rusty old Cambodian phanes is no match for 3 squdrans of Thai F16. I do not have fact in hand, but I am assuming that Sonthi is under estimating the Cambodia. The speech is very provocative, often suggesting using force. I am very disappointed that the Thai audiance absolutly cheers and pump-up on the suggestion of waring with Cambodia.

IMHO, I would rather support Thailand giving up 1.8 sq miles of waste jungle then to go into a confrontation. Of cause I would also like to hear view from other who think that Thailand should not even give up a sq inch of the dispute area.

Sonthi also call for the Navy to give one week notice to Chevron who is alleged to be drilling in the dispute sea. Failling that deadline, he suggest that the Navy should just blow up Chevron rigs. Does anyone has information if Chevron in really having such activities in the dispute sea? I hope not. If they do, that will be stealing.

[h90]

I listen to Sonthi speaks tonight. This guy is constantly asking the Thai to use its superior arms against Cambodia. It has been suggested that a couple of rusty old Cambodian phanes is no match for 3 squdrans of Thai F16. I do not have fact in hand, but I am assuming that Sonthi is under estimating the Cambodia. The speech is very provocative, often suggesting using force. I am very disappointed that the Thai audiance absolutly cheers and pump-up on the suggestion of waring with Cambodia.

IMHO, I would rather support Thailand giving up 1.8 sq miles of waste jungle then to go into a confrontation. Of cause I would also like to hear view from other who think that Thailand should not even give up a sq inch of the dispute area.

Sonthi also call for the Navy to give one week notice to Chevron who is alleged to be drilling in the dispute sea. Failling that deadline, he suggest that the Navy should just blow up Chevron rigs. Does anyone has information if Chevron in really having such activities in the dispute sea? I hope not. If they do, that will be stealing.

Depends what they understand under disputed area. If Cambodia has the opinion it is Cambodian area and some guy in London as well, than Chevron is drilling for Cambodia. That seems to be the next secret deal with Cambodia.

[dumball]

NO , but word is out to the local ears , China and Vietnam have huge investment in Cambodia , and Hun SEn is not the brightest spark in the fire , but he is not stupid when it comes to armed confrontation . Sgtpeppers , what makes you think Thais have a strajegic advantage ? they are on the low land and it is all jungle where they sit , large guns and tanks are useless in jungle warfare .

Better take a look at the geography there ......... wrong again

Isn't the top of a mountain considered strategic for view and fire power by an army , the Khymer rouge found it to their advantage for some years . Never been to the area but read a few reports to this effect .

[mdechgan]

I listen to Sonthi speaks tonight. This guy is constantly asking the Thai to use its superior arms against Cambodia. It has been suggested that a couple of rusty old Cambodian phanes is no match for 3 squdrans of Thai F16. I do not have fact in hand, but I am assuming that Sonthi is under estimating the Cambodia. The speech is very provocative, often suggesting using force. I am very disappointed that the Thai audiance absolutly cheers and pump-up on the suggestion of waring with Cambodia.

IMHO, I would rather support Thailand giving up 1.8 sq miles of waste jungle then to go into a confrontation. Of cause I would also like to hear view from other who think that Thailand should not even give up a sq inch of the dispute area.

Sonthi also call for the Navy to give one week notice to Chevron who is alleged to be drilling in the dispute sea. Failling that deadline, he suggest that the Navy should just blow up Chevron rigs. Does anyone has information if Chevron in really having such activities in the dispute sea? I hope not. If they do, that will be stealing.

Cambodia doesn't really have an air force other than a squadron of Vietnam era MiG 21s. But their air bases have been abandoned so they will be taking off from a civilian airport.

The 4.6sqkm of land is not readily accessible since Thais have to go over hill to get to the area in dispute. The land has no commercial value or development other than landmines. I don't think there is any oil under it also.

If Thaksin really loved Thailand he would of just offered to buy it off Cambodia with interest his own personal fortune.

However there is that principle than not 1 inch should be given away. Its the principle!

Its kinda like if your neighbor moves his wall a meter in your direction. You wouldn't be happy.

[Moonrakers]

I listen to Sonthi speaks tonight. This guy is constantly asking the Thai to use its superior arms against Cambodia. It has been suggested that a couple of rusty old Cambodian phanes is no match for 3 squdrans of Thai F16. I do not have fact in hand, but I am assuming that Sonthi is under estimating the Cambodia. The speech is very provocative, often suggesting using force. I am very disappointed that the Thai audiance absolutly cheers and pump-up on the suggestion of waring with Cambodia.

IMHO, I would rather support Thailand giving up 1.8 sq miles of waste jungle then to go into a confrontation. Of cause I would also like to hear view from other who think that Thailand should not even give up a sq inch of the dispute area.

Sonthi also call for the Navy to give one week notice to Chevron who is alleged to be drilling in the dispute sea. Failling that deadline, he suggest that the Navy should just blow up Chevron rigs. Does anyone has information if Chevron in really having such activities in the dispute sea? I hope not. If they do, that will be stealing.

Cambodia doesn't really have an air force other than a squadron of Vietnam era MiG 21s. But their air bases have been abandoned so they will be taking off from a civilian airport.

The 4.6sqkm of land is not readily accessible since Thais have to go over hill to get to the area in dispute. The land has no commercial value or development other than landmines. I don't think there is any oil under it also.

If Thaksin really loved Thailand he would of just offered to buy it off Cambodia with interest his own personal fortune.

However there is that principle than not 1 inch should be given away. Its the principle!

Its kinda like if your neighbor moves his wall a meter in your direction. You wouldn't be happy.

With no disrespect to those who do reply to the posts of this...errrrm... (Keep it clean)..poster.

Why react to something that somebody has said that he has seen/heard? It is pure here-say.

What's more, do you seriously believe that should Sonthi or whomever would have actually said such things without the international press be jumping all over this by now? And that this AlKing chap is the first source of information to a threat against an international company such as Chevron?

I have chosen to ignore 'Alkings' posts', although unfortunately I can still read them once they are quoted.

*By 'ignore' I mean through the forum "Ignore this poster" option.

Edited October 16, 2008 by globalj

[jdinasia]

NO , but word is out to the local ears , China and Vietnam have huge investment in Cambodia , and Hun SEn is not the brightest spark in the fire , but he is not stupid when it comes to armed confrontation . Sgtpeppers , what makes you think Thais have a strajegic advantage ? they are on the low land and it is all jungle where they sit , large guns and tanks are useless in jungle warfare .

Better take a look at the geography there ......... wrong again

Isn't the top of a mountain considered strategic for view and fire power by an army , the Khymer rouge found it to their advantage for some years . Never been to the area but read a few reports to this effect .

You really should go there then Or better yet get a good topo of the area .... and figure out how to set emplacements You live in Cambodia, you could give us first hand info after your visit!

[DP25]

Cambodia doesn't really have an air force other than a squadron of Vietnam era MiG 21s.

Even that's being generous, they have 4 Mig21s and who knows if they can even get off the ground. The Thais have almost 60 F16s, they'd be foolish to even both risking their Migs.

[DP25]

I wonder if this conflict could affect the deal to buy 12 Gripens or if it's already too late. I can't imagine the Swedes would be very happy with Thailand using their shiny new jets to beat up on tiny Cambodia.

[sabaijai]

Thailand and Cambodia, Two Buddhist Nations, Battle on Their Border

Thursday, 16 October 2008, 1:23 pm

by Richard S. Ehrlich

BANGKOK, Thailand -- The latest gunfire and two deaths along the

disputed Thai-Cambodian border on Wednesday (October 15) threaten to

escalate into open warfare between these two Buddhist countries,

pitting Bangkok's U.S.-trained military against some of the late Pol

Pot's former Khmer Rouge forces.

Thailand is a non-NATO military ally of America, and is bigger,

wealthier, and better armed than Cambodia.

But Cambodian soldiers are perceived as tougher jungle fighters after

decades of guerrilla war amid that country's horrific "killing fields".

In fresh skirmishes, at least two Cambodian soldiers died, and two

were injured, during a gun fight on Wednesday (October 15) near the

11th century stone ruins of Preah Vihear temple, Cambodian Foreign

Minister Hor Namhong told reporters.

Cambodian officials also claimed they captured several Thai soldiers.

Five Thai soldiers were injured in battle, Thai army spokesman

Sansern Kaewkumnerd said.

Assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades were used during the 40- minute clash, though both sides denied firing the first shot.

Unfortunately for Thailand, its Army Commander-in-Chief, Gen. Anupong

Paochinda, is embroiled in Bangkok's crippling domestic politics,

despite his repeated denials that he is plotting a coup.

Anti-government protestors in Bangkok have pointed to the border

dispute to condemn Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat for not

protecting Thai territory, and expressed hopes for an army coup.

Preah Vihear's ruins received World Heritage Site status earlier this

year by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural

Organization (UNESCO).

The award immediately sparked outrage in Thailand, fueling distrust

between the two countries.

"UNESCO acted as if its World Heritage status was some God-given

right, and ignored the fact that a strongman [Cambodian Prime

Minister Hun Sen] in Phnom Penh was exploiting it for political

gain," the English-language Nation newspaper said in a Wednesday

(October 15) editorial.

Bangkok was not happy with a 1962 World Court judgment which ruled

Cambodia owns the Preah Vihear ruins, about 100 miles northeast of

Cambodia's fabled Angkor Wat temple complex, near Siem Reap.

Preah Vihear offers majestic stone architecture, ravaged by time and

neglect, sprawling across a flat outcropping of land jutting above

Cambodia.

Thanks to border maps written by French colonialists when Paris ruled

Indochina, the temple appears to hover over northern Cambodia on a

mountaintop ledge.

It can be easily approached across relatively flat land from the Thai

side, but Cambodians must climb a steep cliff to reach the temple.

Thais insist the flat outcropping is an obvious extension of

northeast Thailand, though historians say the temple was built by

Cambodia's Khmer rulers.

While the ruins may be Cambodian, Thailand claims 1.8 square miles

(4.6 sq km) of jungle alongside the temple were never clearly

demarcated.

Bangkok and Phnom Penh have traditionally been uneasy neighbors,

though Thai businesses have expanded in Cambodia during recent years.

During the 1970s, Thailand allowed the U.S. military to use Thai

territory as a base to attack Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.

As part of America's failed Vietnam War, the U.S. lost its fight

against Cambodia's Khmer Rouge communist guerrillas in 1975.

Cambodia's recently re-elected Prime Minister Hun Sen was a mid-

level Khmer Rouge commander during the guerrilla war against the U.S.

Hun Sen defected from Pol Pot in 1977, mid-way through Pol Pot's

infamous 1975-79 "killing fields" reign, which left more than one

million Cambodians dead from starvation, disease, slavery, torture

and other abuses.

After helping to defeat Pol Pot, Hun Sen incorporated many former

Khmer Rouge guerrillas into Cambodia's army.

The Preah Vihear area is "a life-and-death battle zone," Hun Sen told

an economic forum in Phnom Penh on Tuesday (October 14) while hoping

for millions of dollars in loans from China.

"The problem is not about withdrawing or not withdrawing -- it's our

territory. How can they tell us that it is their territory?" Thai

Foreign Minister Sompong Amornwiwat told reporters on Tuesday

(October 14) after an unsuccessful meeting with his Cambodian

counterpart.

"What can we do? We are in our own homeland, and they want us to

evict us from our own home," Sompong said.

"If Cambodia does resort to the use of force in accordance with its

so-called ultimatum, Thailand will have to exercise its right of self- defense as provided for under the Charter of the United Nations, in

order to protect our de-mining personnel and Thailand's sovereignty

and territorial integrity," the Thai Foreign Ministry said in a

statement on Tuesday (October 14).

"Thailand has always called for, and remains committed to, resolving

its boundary issues with Cambodia peacefully," the Foreign Ministry

said.

Hidden land mines exploded near Preah Vihear temple on Oct. 3,

causing two Thai soldiers to lose legs, and gunfights during the past

several weeks injured troops on both sides.

www.scoop.co.nz

[sriracha john]

someone asked earlier about Chevron... which gets down to a lot about what this is all about... drawing the border lines at sea is much more critical than these land ones... but the land ones are where the precedents are set...

anyway, from the closed thread on the issue....

Samran mentioned this earlier, but the linked article and below map made things a lot clearer and certainly adds a whole new jumble to the on-going mess... 27,000 square kilometers of "jumble"....

The scrap of land on which our future lies

The implications of the Thai-Cambodian border dispute reach far beyond the 4.6 sq km of scrub around Preah Vihear

The disputed area adjacent to Preah Vihear covers only 4.6 square kilometres - a very small area when compared to the total size of the countries of Thailand and Cambodia. But neither of the countries can afford to lose any of this land. This is not only because the area carries with it the issue of territorial sovereignty, which no modern state can bear to lose, but also because the final fate of the area could signify the future of other overlapping areas still to be demarcated, particularly those in the sea, military analysts say. While a lot of people are concerned about the possible loss of territorial sovereignty over the disputed land to Cambodia, Vice-Admiral Pratheep Chuen-arom (retired) has been pondering what will happen to the disputed areas in the Gulf of Thailand, which cover about 20,000 square kilometres. For months, the vice-admiral has reviewed the information to hand and applied the lessons he learned when commander of a patrol fleet in the Gulf. He has decided to make public his concerns. "If we lose the claimed land again, there is very much more at stake to be lost." Over a hundred years ago, Thailand was forced to demarcate its borders with two imperial powers, Britain and France, which had colonised Indo-China, including Cambodia. Some maps helping define the borders between Thailand and states under protection of those imperial countries were drawn up. However, these were not officially accepted by Bangkok, especially those covering the border between Thailand and Cambodia.While Cambodia continues to use the French maps, Thailand has its own versions and has used them as its border references. And because they use different maps, the two countries claim different borderlines. So, if the French-drawn maps were accepted, much of the area containing oil and gas deposits would go to Cambodia, Vice-Admiral Pratheep said. Last year, Cambodia's Deputy Prime Minister Sok An, who is chairman of the Cambodian National Petroleum Authority (CNPA), declared a "breakthrough" regarding the petroleum exploration by Chevron Overseas Petroleum (Cambodia) Ltd, which obtained permission from Cambodia to explore petroleum resources in 2002. He said, "The overlapping area covers around 27,000 sq km that is thought to be highly prospective for petroleum accumulations."

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/290708_News/29Jul2008_news015.php

==================================================================

Cambodia's line was, to put it mildly, outrageously drawn by the French...

Chevron has been drilling and has found oil.... there's millions of dollars at stake here and it starts with the "scrubland" around the temple.

Edited October 16, 2008 by sriracha john

[Scott]

When you start talking about oil, it all starts making sense. Now, there's a lot of money to be made by someone.

[AlKing]

I listen to Sonthi speaks tonight. This guy is constantly asking the Thai to use its superior arms against Cambodia. It has been suggested that a couple of rusty old Cambodian phanes is no match for 3 squdrans of Thai F16. I do not have fact in hand, but I am assuming that Sonthi is under estimating the Cambodia. The speech is very provocative, often suggesting using force. I am very disappointed that the Thai audiance absolutly cheers and pump-up on the suggestion of waring with Cambodia.

IMHO, I would rather support Thailand giving up 1.8 sq miles of waste jungle then to go into a confrontation. Of cause I would also like to hear view from other who think that Thailand should not even give up a sq inch of the dispute area.

Sonthi also call for the Navy to give one week notice to Chevron who is alleged to be drilling in the dispute sea. Failling that deadline, he suggest that the Navy should just blow up Chevron rigs. Does anyone has information if Chevron in really having such activities in the dispute sea? I hope not. If they do, that will be stealing.

Cambodia doesn't really have an air force other than a squadron of Vietnam era MiG 21s. But their air bases have been abandoned so they will be taking off from a civilian airport.

The 4.6sqkm of land is not readily accessible since Thais have to go over hill to get to the area in dispute. The land has no commercial value or development other than landmines. I don't think there is any oil under it also.

If Thaksin really loved Thailand he would of just offered to buy it off Cambodia with interest his own personal fortune.

However there is that principle than not 1 inch should be given away. Its the principle!

Its kinda like if your neighbor moves his wall a meter in your direction. You wouldn't be happy.

With no disrespect to those who do reply to the posts of this...errrrm... (Keep it clean)..poster.

Why react to something that somebody has said that he has seen/heard? It is pure here-say.

What's more, do you seriously believe that should Sonthi or whomever would have actually said such things without the international press be jumping all over this by now? And that this AlKing chap is the first source of information to a threat against an international company such as Chevron?

I have chosen to ignore 'Alkings' posts', although unfortunately I can still read them once they are quoted.

*By 'ignore' I mean through the forum "Ignore this poster" option.

Call me a lair? Listen for yourself. You may need to get your bg or bather to translate for you. This guy is really calling for war and blasting Chevron out of the sea. LISTEN FOR YOURSELF on Sonthi last night speach. The links are here.

http://www.managerradio.com/Radio/DetailRa...rogram_id=19649

http://www.managerradio.com/Radio/download...2/1002-6965.wma

[Plus]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sondhi really said all those things.

Someone on the Thai side is bound to raise up nationalist rhetoric, Thais would be total wussies if they didn't.

[jackyseymour]

This is what's all really been about. From the Editor of BahtSold:

Ed note:

Wasn't even going to give this any fuel or even a mention as it appeared a mere cynical political diversion by design (on top of ridiculous but damaging headlines stating 'war'). This all oddly blows up as both Thailand and Cambodia were in off/on talks on the semi-resolved issue. Some are wondering what influence (if any) the London HQ boss may have had in this and what his Cambodia golfing/casino buddy may want in return?

Regardless, unfortunately there's now reportedly been one death and a few injuries inflicted on more disposable 'pawns' in the broader ongoing big-picture bloody charade.

-The PAD didn't help either, recklessly blowing this border non-issue out of all proportion a few months back, following Thaksin's former lawyer/Foreign Minister Noppadon pulling out all the stops to side with Cambodia (all whilst the boss was reportedly dealing for casinos/golf resorts/undersea gas concessions in Cambo).

-The timing of this escalation smacks of 'Wag the Dog' and continues to "create" even more world alarm about Thailand all over global newscasts (but 'might' create an ideal time to slip through a rubber-stamped constitution revisal or revive an old one;)

-Bottom line, the reality at this moment is, passage and trade continues on as 'normal' at every main Thai/Cambo border point but doubt this will make world news headlines...

Wag the Dog: www.wag-the-dog.com/Story/index.html

_____________________________________________________

[AlKing]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sondhi really said all those things.

Someone on the Thai side is bound to raise up nationalist rhetoric, Thais would be total wussies if they didn't.

Sonthi also ask the Thai government to summon The American Ambassador to account for Chevron action. With the election back home, I think the Ambassador have better things to do.

Some backgroud info I have googled. Non bias, I just pick a couple that appears on top of my search list.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IF13Ae05.html

http://www.readbangkokpost.com/business/oi...s_rights_in.php map

Edited October 17, 2008 by AlKing

[sriracha john]

a dated and sourced POW photo...

Wern Champasak (center), Thailand's chief of border communication, sits with a Cambodian soldier after surrendering at Sekha Kirisvarak pagoda near the disputed 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple in Preah Vihear province, 543 km (337 miles) north of Phnom Penh October 15, 2008. Cambodia's army captured 10 Thai soldiers on Wednesday after a battle along a disputed stretch of border near the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said.

REUTERS

.........Thailand's chief of border communication, sits with a Cambodian soldier after surrendering at Sekha Kirisvarak pagoda........

Help me find my face. I have lost it somewhere!!

they didn't surrender... they just wanted some coffee and watch television...

Thai troops 'did not surrender'

One of the 10 Thai soldiers reported to have surrendered to Cambodian troops during Wednesday's border skirmishes yesterday denied they had been detained. He said the team was a communications unit coordinating with a similar Cambodian unit, and they were still working freely in the disputed area. ''We are not being detained. We did not surrender,'' Apichart Pupuak told Reuters by telephone from the shrine on Preah Vihear. Capt Apichart said he was a member of the team that had been stationed at the Keo Sikha Kiri Svara chedi near Preah Vihear for three months liaising with Cambodian troops on communication matters. Under the agreement with Cambodia, 10 soldiers from each country stay at the chedi, in the 4.6-square-kilometre disputed area. Another 20 are stationed there for joint patrolling. Capt Apichart said pictures of him waving his hands without weapons were taken by Cambodian photographers. But he said he was gesturing to tell troops from both sides stationed at the shrine not to shoot after they heard gunshots. ''That wasn't a surrender sign. I waved one arm to the Thai troops and to the Cambodians to hold their fire,'' he said. The Thai soldiers had not been disarmed by the Cambodian troops as claimed by Phnom Penh. ''We have been asked not to carry weapons around at the shrine, but all our rifles and other weapons are still with us,'' he said. ''They are treating us well. We drank coffee and watched news on TV together last night,'' he added.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/171008_News/17Oct2008_news08.php

[bergen]

NO , but word is out to the local ears , China and Vietnam have huge investment in Cambodia , and Hun SEn is not the brightest spark in the fire , but he is not stupid when it comes to armed confrontation . Sgtpeppers , what makes you think Thais have a strajegic advantage ? they are on the low land and it is all jungle where they sit , large guns and tanks are useless in jungle warfare .

Better take a look at the geography there ......... wrong again

Isn't the top of a mountain considered strategic for view and fire power by an army , the Khymer rouge found it to their advantage for some years . Never been to the area but read a few reports to this effect .

The top of the temple is on higher level than the Thai side.

However...... for the Cambodians to get any heavy material up to a superior level, it need to be lifted up by helicopter.

The road access on the Thai side is excellent with plenty of parking space and room for logistcis.

The Cambodians on their side either have to walk or drive in small 4wd vehickles (jeeps) to the temple/cliff which is approximately 500 meters higher than the planes.

There are only dirt roads on the nearby Cambodian flat land, and no regular communication.

The area between the Thai border crossing and the temple entrance is an open sandstone landscape, while the area around the cliff is hilly and junglelike.

To me who have been to the area many times, it seems the Thais have all the advantages.

[Farma]

Bergen I believe the national park is still full of uncleared mines. That would slow down any Khmer attempts to come in around the sides.

[stepenwolf1958]

Ok guys...Here i found the answer about background of this mess all.Thanks a lot and as i can see now the problem is really stupid acting of Thais.

The problem is,as i saw here about understandin and translating maps from 1907 or years ago. That mean Thais should not to put the nose there at all. There was some period of 50 years they didn't even try to complain so French maps are accepted. So,that was base for ICJ also, to decide that temple belongs to Cambodians. That international institution should be respected. If Thais have some reason to complai about, they have a way.In this world is some order,right? They should not take"justice"in their hands,even they disagree with that decission of ICJ. Nobody, no any country should to do this way, if disagree with some international institution. We all know sometimes decissions of international institutions could be as kind of dictate of powerful countries-interested for some region but all of that is not excuse to make such a mess as i see Thais are making.

If i understood well all posters here in explaining past,background,should be clear to all of us now. Any country should to respect international rules and there is always some way to complain. Not to make things as this.That is also for Thais. I think Thais should to learn to respect international laws and regulations,at least as much as they insist about respecting their law and regulations(even mny of them make a huge damage for foreigners here,even to themselves).

Today i saw newspapers.Local newspapers and i can't read it but 2 pictures on the fron page shocked me.

Face in crying of a girl who lost the father on the border.Her crying over fater;s body,her face,should to see many politicians here...I still remember pictures from Vietnam,Cambodia and i will.This is one more to that gallery.Face of that crying gir,over her father's body,l i will not forget,it is for sure....

Next picture is about died or killd baby elephant,in a huge stain of blood...There is smaller photo of some young man...All happend in Buriram. i was need to know more about it but people couln't say anything to me because they don't have any English...

Ok,here is one who can say...That happened in BANGKOK...Driver,drunk i guess,killed an elephant and it's rider-young man on that smaller photo.

This 2 pictures is quite a shock for me and one more time,thanks to all posters here for explanation of that mess with Cambodia.

Regards to all of you people...

[LongThaimer]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

one thing come to mind is that the world has not seen the surgical strike capability of the thai air force in real battle....never.....but although it helps that cambodia hasn't got any air defense to speak of....

for their own benefit hopefully they wouldn't attempt any of it around the 700 years old temple that both are willing to kill each other for...............

by the way if thais driving ethics are of any indication of their flying then one has to fear that chances of temple coming out in one piece is indeed slim.............very slim

[Payboy]

Isn't the top of a mountain considered strategic for view and fire power by an army

it's not if your only supply routes are through enemy territory....

[bergen]

Bergen I believe the national park is still full of uncleared mines. That would slow down any Khmer attempts to come in around the sides.

That is quite correct!

It would not only slow them down, but reduce them in numbers as well

There has been several mine clearing projects in the area during the last years, funded by the French, Japanese and Australians.

However the areas that have been cleared are limited, and you still see signs saying "Danger Mines" all around!

This has been a common sight during the years I have lived here.

Edited October 17, 2008 by bergen

[Bagwan]

you are just another f00l. they just dress up like uni girls but they are also from cowboy/nana.

Connect brain sunshine, or are you a fool spelt f00l?

The important thing is that the punter THINKS they are Uni girls. If you exchange bodily fluids with a lady whom you think is 22 years will you ask for a refund if you discover that she is in reality 30? In most sexual matters reality takes a back seat. It is all in the mind you know.

[Bagwan]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

one thing come to mind is that the world has not seen the surgical strike capability of the thai air force in real battle....never.....but although it helps that cambodia hasn't got any air defense to speak of....

Thai pilots are tutored by the US - and we all know what their capabilities are in the area of target identification. If I was a Thai soldier anywhere near the probable battle zone I should be very worried indeed.

[LongThaimer]

seen many people on internet showing off photos of polished rtac's F16s in their hangers..........

one thing come to mind is that the world has not seen the surgical strike capability of the thai air force in real battle....never.....but although it helps that cambodia hasn't got any air defense to speak of....

Thai pilots are tutored by the US - and we all know what their capabilities are in the area of target identification. If I was a Thai soldier anywhere near the probable battle zone I should be very worried indeed.

from friendly fire...i presume