Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[midas]

What is more important? propping up one's share portfolio or giving the next generation at least a better chance of getting work and enjoying their lives?

i'd say propping up one's (not necessarily share) portfolio because that possibility exists. giving the next generation a better chance to enjoy their lives without going through a rough time is impossible. they will have to manage and cope with similar problems i had to cope growing up as a poor son of impoverished parents in post-war Germany.

by the way, i don't think it's right what the next one (or more generations) will be facing. being a realist and pragmatic i'm just stating facts.

better to take the medicine now than to take it later because I don't believe it's going to work anyway for very long

and when it does stop working there will be a lot of angry young people around

[midas]

" “Comex was ready to default on gold and silver in November, and rather than honor the notices for delivery, JP Morgan stole the funds in the accounts that were calling for delivery…notices for delivery were replaced by stolen accounts.” The evidence of this according to Jim is that, “JPM increased the amount of silver in their registered vaults by precisely the amount that was suppose to be delivered…JPM effectively averted both a Comex default and a European Sovereign Debt implosion.

“Several million private accounts may vanish–Brokerage accounts, Pension funds, Mutual funds, they’re all at risk. We are getting into the middle stages of implosion, where I believe the public will not wake up until at least one million private accounts are stolen, and completely vanish.“

http://bullmarketthinking.com/exclusive-interview-jim-willie-the-public-will-not-wake-up-until-at-least-1-million-private-accounts-are-stolen/

Edited December 7, 2011 by midas

[Naam]

JP Morgan stole the funds in the accounts that were calling for delivery… notices for delivery were replaced by stolen accounts.

stolen funds were traded against unknown quantities of Unobtainium adulterated with low grade Quadlithium and then sold to the Cardassians?

don't these stories belong to the Grimm Brothers collection of fairy tales Midas? i agree that a lot of shit has been going on and is still going on. but courts of law with judges possessing integrity still exist in the U.S. of A. and so do lawyers who'd jump on these stories even if they were only partly true.

[fritter1970]

What is more important? propping up one's share portfolio or giving the next generation at least a better chance of getting work and enjoying their lives?

i'd say propping up one's (not necessarily share) portfolio because that possibility exists. giving the next generation a better chance to enjoy their lives without going through a rough time is impossible. they will have to manage and cope with similar problems i had to cope growing up as a poor son of impoverished parents in post-war Germany.

by the way, i don't think it's right what the next one (or more generations) will be facing. being a realist and pragmatic i'm just stating facts.

Ah, you are German. That explains a lot.

[midas]

JP Morgan stole the funds in the accounts that were calling for delivery… notices for delivery were replaced by stolen accounts.

stolen funds were traded against unknown quantities of Unobtainium adulterated with low grade Quadlithium and then sold to the Cardassians?

don't these stories belong to the Grimm Brothers collection of fairy tales Midas? i agree that a lot of shit has been going on and is still going on. but courts of law with judges possessing integrity still exist in the U.S. of A. and so do lawyers who'd jump on these stories even if they were only partly true.

only in your world Naam... only in your world

You don't seem to be aware what Bill Black ( from the savings and loan era ) has been jumping up and down

because of this very thing you are saying -there are no charges, no prosecutions - nothing is happening for anyone.

Oh i forgot Karl Denninger has also been saying the same thing as Bill Black for the last 1-2 years.

[fritter1970]

JP Morgan stole the funds in the accounts that were calling for delivery… notices for delivery were replaced by stolen accounts.

stolen funds were traded against unknown quantities of Unobtainium adulterated with low grade Quadlithium and then sold to the Cardassians?

don't these stories belong to the Grimm Brothers collection of fairy tales Midas? i agree that a lot of shit has been going on and is still going on. but courts of law with judges possessing integrity still exist in the U.S. of A. and so do lawyers who'd jump on these stories even if they were only partly true.

Negatory. New York City is a soveriegnty unto itself. It is totally separate from the United States when it comes to the rule of law. It is a boys club that makes Russia look like a Sunday school picnic. Your comments prove you are a member of the flock. The comments of midas show that he is not with the blind. Unfortunately his kind are very, very rare.

[Naam]

Ah, you are German. That explains a lot.

right you are!

[Naam]

JP Morgan stole the funds in the accounts that were calling for delivery… notices for delivery were replaced by stolen accounts.

stolen funds were traded against unknown quantities of Unobtainium adulterated with low grade Quadlithium and then sold to the Cardassians?

don't these stories belong to the Grimm Brothers collection of fairy tales Midas? i agree that a lot of shit has been going on and is still going on. but courts of law with judges possessing integrity still exist in the U.S. of A. and so do lawyers who'd jump on these stories even if they were only partly true.

only in your world Naam... only in your world

You don't seem to be aware what Bill Black ( from the savings and loan era ) has been jumping up and down

because of this very thing you are saying -there are no charges, no prosecutions - nothing is happening for anyone.

Oh i forgot Karl Denninger has also been saying the same thing as Bill Black for the last 1-2 years.

my world is detached from the world you are describing Midas. i couldn't care less if another dozen commodity brokers go down or the Comex defaults. in fact i wish that all commodity speculators who write naked deals go belly-up. they are parasites hurting the poorest of the poor of this planet.

logic tells me if there are no charges, then a legal basis for charges does not exist, no matter how much the righteous ones are salivating around their mouths or talking incoherent ridiculous rubbish, e.g. Ms "Hundreds of Trillions" Barnhardt the ex-cattle future broker(ess).

[Naam]

for what it's worth, some (Citi) anals' view on gold:

While we retain a positive medium to long term view on Gold (12-24 months) the chart below continues to suggest that we can see a better buying opportunity in the coming months.

●Gold against other (paper) currencies

●Gold: Testing the base of the triangle consolidation.

●Gold versus currencies in the DXY Index: Setup still similar to 2008.

●Gold / Oil Ratio: Testing important support at 17.00. A weekly close below would suggest further losses for Gold against Oil.

●Gold / London Metals Ratio: Triple weekly divergence warns of Gold underperformance.

●Gold / Dow Ratio: Below the 55 day moving average and should test the 200 day.

●Gold / Bonds Ratio: Triple monthly divergence still shows the trend is stretched and that Bonds should outperform Gold in the near term.

[midas]

JP Morgan stole the funds in the accounts that were calling for delivery… notices for delivery were replaced by stolen accounts.

stolen funds were traded against unknown quantities of Unobtainium adulterated with low grade Quadlithium and then sold to the Cardassians?

don't these stories belong to the Grimm Brothers collection of fairy tales Midas? i agree that a lot of shit has been going on and is still going on. but courts of law with judges possessing integrity still exist in the U.S. of A. and so do lawyers who'd jump on these stories even if they were only partly true.

only in your world Naam... only in your world

You don't seem to be aware what Bill Black ( from the savings and loan era ) has been jumping up and down

because of this very thing you are saying -there are no charges, no prosecutions - nothing is happening for anyone.

Oh i forgot Karl Denninger has also been saying the same thing as Bill Black for the last 1-2 years.

my world is detached from the world you are describing Midas. i couldn't care less if another dozen commodity brokers go down or the Comex defaults. in fact i wish that all commodity speculators who write naked deals go belly-up. they are parasites hurting the poorest of the poor of this planet.

logic tells me if there are no charges, then a legal basis for charges does not exist, no matter how much the righteous ones are salivating around their mouths or talking incoherent ridiculous rubbish, e.g. Ms "Hundreds of Trillions" Barnhardt the ex-cattle future broker(ess).

But Naam I put it to you that the whole system incorporating the financial system and the political system is rotten to the core and if you think that the fallout would just be confined to “ another dozen commodity brokers going down “ I would find it very that hard to believe and that would belong to the “ Grimm Brothers collection of fairy tales “ just based on what has happened over the last three years?

I have no idea why you seem to be prepared to indirectly attach any credence to these people but in my book they are in a lower category than used-car salesmen and real estate agents. Just take a look around you Naam .To me it looks exactly like they know exactly there isn't much time left and they are raiding the cookie jar while they still have time.

The risk the whole financial system will implode and people will lose all their money is growing all the time because of an exponential growth in criminality by bankers and politicians working in collaboration with each other. And that is no fairytale! In my view the risks described in the article which you dismissed are much much greater than a whole list of “ unlikely but insurable risks “ that you probably have in your standard home and contents insurance policy and for which you were even prepared to pay an insurance premium to be covered against.

Edited December 8, 2011 by midas

[midas]

JP Morgan stole the funds in the accounts that were calling for delivery… notices for delivery were replaced by stolen accounts.

stolen funds were traded against unknown quantities of Unobtainium adulterated with low grade Quadlithium and then sold to the Cardassians?

don't these stories belong to the Grimm Brothers collection of fairy tales Midas? i agree that a lot of shit has been going on and is still going on. but courts of law with judges possessing integrity still exist in the U.S. of A. and so do lawyers who'd jump on these stories even if they were only partly true.

Negatory. New York City is a soveriegnty unto itself. It is totally separate from the United States when it comes to the rule of law. It is a boys club that makes Russia look like a Sunday school picnic. Your comments prove you are a member of the flock. The comments of midas show that he is not with the blind. Unfortunately his kind are very, very rare.

fritter I thought Chicago set the standards?

[binjalin]

1323254452[/url]' post='4896940']

1323252177[/url]' post='4896848']

1323251766[/url]' post='4896835']

JP Morgan stole the funds in the accounts that were calling for delivery… notices for delivery were replaced by stolen accounts.

stolen funds were traded against unknown quantities of Unobtainium adulterated with low grade Quadlithium and then sold to the Cardassians?

don't these stories belong to the Grimm Brothers collection of fairy tales Midas? i agree that a lot of shit has been going on and is still going on. but courts of law with judges possessing integrity still exist in the U.S. of A. and so do lawyers who'd jump on these stories even if they were only partly true.

only in your world Naam... only in your world

You don't seem to be aware what Bill Black ( from the savings and loan era ) has been jumping up and down

because of this very thing you are saying -there are no charges, no prosecutions - nothing is happening for anyone.

Oh i forgot Karl Denninger has also been saying the same thing as Bill Black for the last 1-2 years.

my world is detached from the world you are describing Midas. i couldn't care less if another dozen commodity brokers go down or the Comex defaults. in fact i wish that all commodity speculators who write naked deals go belly-up. they are parasites hurting the poorest of the poor of this planet.

logic tells me if there are no charges, then a legal basis for charges does not exist, no matter how much the righteous ones are salivating around their mouths or talking incoherent ridiculous rubbish, e.g. Ms "Hundreds of Trillions" Barnhardt the ex-cattle future broker(ess).

Agree - they should ban futures trading and lend against real investments - banker parasites

[Naam]

Agree - they should ban futures trading and lend against real investments - banker parasites

please use the correct spelling of "bankster"

[Naam]

I have no idea why you seem to be prepared to indirectly attach any credence to these people but in my book they are in a lower category than used-car salesmen and real estate agents. Just take a look around you Naam .To me it looks exactly like they know exactly there isn't much time left and they are raiding the cookie jar while they still have time.

an unwarranted assumption Midas. i abhor the bàstàrds as much as you do but at the same time i claim that among the rotten crowd you still find honest people possessing integrity.

[Naam]

The risk the whole financial system will implode and people will lose all their money is growing all the time because of an exponential growth in criminality by bankers and politicians working in collaboration with each other. And that is no fairytale!

there's a flaw in this logic, namely if the whole financial system explodes or implodes those who raided the cookie jar won't be able to enjoy their illgotten gains and the fraudsters 'des toutes couleurs' are intelligent enough to know that. perhaps i'm wrong but there's nothing we can do except doing our best to make hay as long as the sun shines and prepare for a potential worst case scenario.

as far as the latter is concerned i have reached the 'top of the lamp post' and lack any additional ideas... short of buying a rope and shoot myself with it

Edited December 8, 2011 by Naam

[midas]

I have no idea why you seem to be prepared to indirectly attach any credence to these people but in my book they are in a lower category than used-car salesmen and real estate agents. Just take a look around you Naam .To me it looks exactly like they know exactly there isn't much time left and they are raiding the cookie jar while they still have time.

an unwarranted assumption Midas. i abhor the bàstàrds as much as you do but at the same time i claim that among the rotten crowd you still find honest people possessing integrity.

Naam of course there are........... but they haven't got any power?

I mean I have to admit I used to naïvely believe politicians wanted to be elected

through a philanthropic desire to serve the people and be prepared to accept

a modest salary with fringe benefits. I refused to believe it was so that the

greedy bàstàrds could line their pockets at our expense

[midas]

The risk the whole financial system will implode and people will lose all their money is growing all the time because of an exponential growth in criminality by bankers and politicians working in collaboration with each other. And that is no fairytale!

there's a flaw in this logic, namely if the whole financial system explodes or implodes those who raided the cookie jar won't be able to enjoy their illgotten gains and the fraudsters 'des toutes couleurs' are intelligent enough to know that. perhaps i'm wrong but there's nothing we can do except doing our best to make hay as long as the sun shines and prepare for a potential worst case scenario.

as far as the latter is concerned i have reached the 'top of the lamp post' and lack any additional ideas... short of buying a rope and shoot myself with it

Get down from the lamp post right now

There will be work to be done afterwards if there is some kind of scaling down.

I think it could be rather refreshing to be able to rewrite the rule book

And I asked myself this very same question about how they will use their ill gotten gains

but I can't answer that although I'm sure they have already thought far ahead and used it

in ways that many of us have not even thought about....

For example look at this new business which apparently after being established in 1995

is now flourishing...............

Although I don't know of any in Pattaya

http://www.missilebases.com/about

Edited December 8, 2011 by midas

[midas]

an unwarranted assumption Midas. i abhor the bàstàrds as much as you do but at the same time i claim that among the rotten crowd you still find honest people possessing integrity.

Naam I have borrowed this paragraph from an article I just posted from Reuters over in the other " Fred " but I think it's so

good and epitomises so exactly why I have such little faith in the integrity of the cartel in power

" If anyone thought that you couldn’t have your cake and eat it too in the world of finance, MF Global shows how you can have your cake, eat it, eat someone else’s cake and then let your clients pick up the bill. Hard cheese for many as their dough goes missing. "

Edited December 8, 2011 by midas

[gregb]

The risk the whole financial system will implode and people will lose all their money is growing all the time because of an exponential growth in criminality by bankers and politicians working in collaboration with each other. And that is no fairytale!

there's a flaw in this logic, namely if the whole financial system explodes or implodes those who raided the cookie jar won't be able to enjoy their illgotten gains and the fraudsters 'des toutes couleurs' are intelligent enough to know that. perhaps i'm wrong but there's nothing we can do except doing our best to make hay as long as the sun shines and prepare for a potential worst case scenario.

as far as the latter is concerned i have reached the 'top of the lamp post' and lack any additional ideas... short of buying a rope and shoot myself with it

The people at the very top of the food chain are not ignorant to this problem at all. They know the current system is fundamentally broken and can not be revived. There is a reason for the new push towards triple bottom line balance sheets and social impact investing. But it takes decades or centuries to establish new social narratives that can be used during the coming age of decline and collapse of the global industrial civilization.

So the current attack is on two fronts. One, take everything you can possibly get now while it is still available for the taking. Two, begin the long process of shifting society away from wealth through consumerism and onto identifying wealth through some other metrics. As long as those at the top still remain at the top in the new system, they don't really care much what the new system is. Human societies are built as a hierarchy, and all anyone really cares about is relative wealth. Absolute wealth is an intangible concept anyway.

One thing is for sure and that is the existing system is unsustainable, and the laws of economics that were based upon this nebulous system are going to have to be rewritten to adjust to the new world dynamic. The people who are at the top of the current food chain know what is coming and that revolutionary change is inevitable, but like an addict they just can't pass up one more hit on the wealth sucking machine. What is happening right now doesn't surprise me at all, including some of the blatantly criminal activities that are likely going on. All of us would probably be doing the same thing if we had the resources to pull it off.

One thing that is almost certain to come out of this collapse and redesign of the myths that bind society is the death of fiat currencies and a return to gold as the basis of money. When economic growth is no longer possible, there is also no reason to grow the money supply and thus no foundation for debt based paper money. This is not really a secret either. But the transition to get from here to there is not going to be smooth, and the rest of our natural lives of everyone on this forum are going to be spent in this rather chaotic transition. The uncertainty in this is great for speculators who like to gamble, but it sucks for the rest of us.

BTW, recovery to most people means a return to an extended period of relative stability, where the future can be assumed to be substantially similar today but with more opportunities. By this definition and recognizing the realities of energy and resource depletion, only your grandchildren should be talking about a recovery. Anything earlier than that will be temporary at best.

[Naam]

an unwarranted assumption Midas. i abhor the bàstàrds as much as you do but at the same time i claim that among the rotten crowd you still find honest people possessing integrity.

Naam I have borrowed this paragraph from an article I just posted from Reuters over in the other " Fred " but I think it's so

good and epitomises so exactly why I have such little faith in the integrity of the cartel in power

" If anyone thought that you couldn’t have your cake and eat it too in the world of finance, MF Global shows how you can have your cake, eat it, eat someone else’s cake and then let your clients pick up the bill. Hard cheese for many as their dough goes missing. "

Midas, i repeat and insist that if the MF Global story did happen as described by certain sources then there will be consequences.

[churchill]

Printing presses getting warmed up - One way or another

Banks Prep for Life After Euro

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203413304577084483874422516.html?mod=WSJEurope_hpp_LEFTTopStories

Nomura Presents The Fair-Value Of European Currencies In A Euro Breakup Scenario

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2011/12/20111205_NMA_EU%20depr.png

from .. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/nomura-presents-fair-value-european-currencies-euro-breakup-scenario

[churchill]

Gold recycling gains pace in India as prices rise

"There is no investment demand as well. In fact, people are selling coins, bars and jewellery," said Prithviraj Kothari, president of the Bombay Bullion Association, a trade body, adding "demand is slow as people don't have money and inflation is high and they don't have savings."

http://in.news.yahoo.com/gold-recycling-gains-pace-india-prices-rise-085236635.html

[churchill]

Negative Gold Lease Rates ... mean as I understand that banks need to raise cash so lease their gold which can lead to depressed prices ..

'One of the things we failed to notice prior to the unexpected beatdown in gold in September was that lease rates had moved significantly into negative territory '

from http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/3103/no-rest-turd

Probably exactly the opposite will happen this time - as the gold price is a game of poker ..

[Naam]

Gold recycling gains pace in India as prices rise

"There is no investment demand as well. In fact, people are selling coins, bars and jewellery," said Prithviraj Kothari, president of the Bombay Bullion Association, a trade body, adding "demand is slow as people don't have money and inflation is high and they don't have savings."

http://in.news.yahoo.com/gold-recycling-gains-pace-india-prices-rise-085236635.html

Indians selling Gold? hey bhagwaan... ab hum hindustaniyon ko sona bechne ki naubat aa gayi?!?

[churchill]

Gold recycling gains pace in India as prices rise

"There is no investment demand as well. In fact, people are selling coins, bars and jewellery," said Prithviraj Kothari, president of the Bombay Bullion Association, a trade body, adding "demand is slow as people don't have money and inflation is high and they don't have savings."

http://in.news.yahoo.com/gold-recycling-gains-pace-india-prices-rise-085236635.html

Indians selling Gold? hey bhagwaan... ab hum hindustaniyon ko sona bechne ki naubat aa gayi?!?

and so are the Japanese

Gold Exports From Japan Most Since 1985 as Individuals Sell Jewelry, Bars

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-08/japan-s-gold-exports-most-since-1985-as-individuals-sell-jewelry-bars.html

But what about the Euro Zone ....

[edgarfriendly]

Despite ALL this waffle, twaddle, claptrap and <deleted>.....

With the recent slight drop in price, ARE WE BUYING OR SELLING?

Regards!

ef

[Naam]

Despite ALL this waffle, twaddle, claptrap and <deleted>.....

With the recent slight drop in price, ARE WE BUYING OR SELLING?

Regards!

ef

yes we are.

regards!

wf

[lannarebirth]

an unwarranted assumption Midas. i abhor the bàstàrds as much as you do but at the same time i claim that among the rotten crowd you still find honest people possessing integrity.

Naam I have borrowed this paragraph from an article I just posted from Reuters over in the other " Fred " but I think it's so

good and epitomises so exactly why I have such little faith in the integrity of the cartel in power

" If anyone thought that you couldn't have your cake and eat it too in the world of finance, MF Global shows how you can have your cake, eat it, eat someone else's cake and then let your clients pick up the bill. Hard cheese for many as their dough goes missing. "

Midas, i repeat and insist that if the MF Global story did happen as described by certain sources then there will be consequences.

Finally a good use to put America's water boarding skills to.

[edgarfriendly]

Despite ALL this waffle, twaddle, claptrap and <deleted>.....

With the recent slight drop in price, ARE WE BUYING OR SELLING?

Regards!

ef

yes we are.

regards!

wf

A - DESPITE....

B - OR....

NAAM - MUPPET

[fletchsmile]

Just added to my gold exposures. 1650's/ 1,660's looks a reasonable level to add. Happy to have sold previously 1750+ on majority of trades. This looks like the pullback had been waiting for, as gold had gone nowhere for a few weeks. With 2x leverage, that means over 10% cheaper than when sold out last time. If the 200 day MA holds will add more, but let's see first, as it's already thru all the other MAs 5 day to 100.

Also added to silver. Given the daily volatility, this trade hasn't gone away in the last few weeks, unlike gold, and has been enough movement to trade almost daily in ranges. 31 looks cheap. Below all moving averages and indicators all showing sell, but this feels like a buying opportunity to me, and a time to disagree with the chartists... let's see

My views: AG higher by y/e and should be close to 34 if not above. AU higher by y/e and 1750+. Q1 2012 I think both higher still, so shan't be too worried if I'm a bit out on timing...

Edited December 12, 2011 by fletchsmile