Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[mccw]

Interesting...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/special-report-after-libor-where-will-the-next-scandal-be-7946899.html

Gold fixing

Twice a day the price of the precious metal is set – or (and it's a rather unfortunate term) fixed – by five banks: Bank of Nova Scotia, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Soci鴩 G骩rale and (wait for it) Barclays.

The leader of the fix begins by proposing a price and the five then simulate trading, by looking at their own and client's buy and sell orders, around it until the price is set.

All transactions in gold in London are based on this price. It's an arcane process to say the least and until 2004 used to be done in conditions of high secrecy at the offices of NM Rothschild in St Swithin's Lane. The price was only set when all five members lowered little Union Jack flags.

Since Rothschild sold its interest in the market (to Barclays) a teleconference has been set up and members simply call out "flag" to indicate a change in position or "flag down" when they are ready to complete. Seriously.

The market itself is not regulated as such. It's done under the auspices of the London Bullion Market Association and follows a code of conduct.

There are also silver and platinum fixes.

Still waiting for usual comments along the lines of trying to discredit author or news source; denial; ostrich syndrome

[Naam]

Interesting...

http://www.independe...be-7946899.html

Gold fixing

Twice a day the price of the precious metal is set – or (and it's a rather unfortunate term) fixed – by five banks: Bank of Nova Scotia, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Soci鴩 G骩rale and (wait for it) Barclays.

The leader of the fix begins by proposing a price and the five then simulate trading, by looking at their own and client's buy and sell orders, around it until the price is set.

All transactions in gold in London are based on this price. It's an arcane process to say the least and until 2004 used to be done in conditions of high secrecy at the offices of NM Rothschild in St Swithin's Lane. The price was only set when all five members lowered little Union Jack flags.

Since Rothschild sold its interest in the market (to Barclays) a teleconference has been set up and members simply call out "flag" to indicate a change in position or "flag down" when they are ready to complete. Seriously.

The market itself is not regulated as such. It's done under the auspices of the London Bullion Market Association and follows a code of conduct.

There are also silver and platinum fixes.

Still waiting for usual comments along the lines of trying to discredit author or news source; denial; ostrich syndrome

price fluctuations, sometimes big ones within minutes, are proof that international spot gold trading cares a flying fart what the London fixers are fixing.

[mccw]

Interesting...

http://www.independe...be-7946899.html

Gold fixing

Twice a day the price of the precious metal is set – or (and it's a rather unfortunate term) fixed – by five banks: Bank of Nova Scotia, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Soci鴩 G骩rale and (wait for it) Barclays.

The leader of the fix begins by proposing a price and the five then simulate trading, by looking at their own and client's buy and sell orders, around it until the price is set.

All transactions in gold in London are based on this price. It's an arcane process to say the least and until 2004 used to be done in conditions of high secrecy at the offices of NM Rothschild in St Swithin's Lane. The price was only set when all five members lowered little Union Jack flags.

Since Rothschild sold its interest in the market (to Barclays) a teleconference has been set up and members simply call out "flag" to indicate a change in position or "flag down" when they are ready to complete. Seriously.

The market itself is not regulated as such. It's done under the auspices of the London Bullion Market Association and follows a code of conduct.

There are also silver and platinum fixes.

Still waiting for usual comments along the lines of trying to discredit author or news source; denial; ostrich syndrome

price fluctuations, sometimes big ones within minutes, are proof that international spot gold trading cares a flying fart what the London fixers are fixing.

Very large fluctuations with in minutes doesn't doesn't make much sense with in the bounds of normal supply and demand to my mind.

What is the reason other than institutions seeking to manipulate the price momentarily for gain?

Suddenly for a couple minutes that many more buyers or sellers are desperate to trade?

According to the article 2004 is when the infamous Rothchilds stopped "fixing" the market. Just before the start of this bull run. Hmm

[Jayman]

I think to deny that major financial institutions are involved with rigging multiple financial markets in light of all the evidence that has been surfacing is surely living in denial. Look at how much the LIBOR rates effect. If they are rigging those with such ease for their own gains, why would you think any other market they have control in would be different?

[Naam]

I think to deny that major financial institutions are involved with rigging multiple financial markets in light of all the evidence that has been surfacing is surely living in denial. Look at how much the LIBOR rates effect. If they are rigging those with such ease for their own gains, why would you think any other market they have control in would be different?

nobody in his right mind denies that rigging in markets has been going on and is still going on. that applies not only to financial markets but to any markets and prices of any product or services.

why would you not be able to comprehend the simple English i have used in my single sentence comment? or are you deliberately trying to distort/misinterprete my comment?

[Jayman]

I think to deny that major financial institutions are involved with rigging multiple financial markets in light of all the evidence that has been surfacing is surely living in denial. Look at how much the LIBOR rates effect. If they are rigging those with such ease for their own gains, why would you think any other market they have control in would be different?

nobody in his right mind denies that rigging in markets has been going on and is still going on. that applies not only to financial markets but to any markets and prices of any product or services.

why would you not be able to comprehend the simple English i have used in my single sentence comment? or are you deliberately trying to distort/misinterprete my comment?

Excuse me.. but where exactly did I misquote you? Not every comment I make is addressed at you. I know this is hard for you to fathom since your ego seems to be so dam_n big I'm not sure how you even fit it in your mansion of a house.

[Naam]

Interesting...

http://www.independe...be-7946899.html

Still waiting for usual comments along the lines of trying to discredit author or news source; denial; ostrich syndrome

price fluctuations, sometimes big ones within minutes, are proof that international spot gold trading cares a flying fart what the London fixers are fixing.

Very large fluctuations with in minutes doesn't doesn't make much sense with in the bounds of normal supply and demand to my mind.

What is the reason other than institutions seeking to manipulate the price momentarily for gain?

Suddenly for a couple minutes that many more buyers or sellers are desperate to trade?

According to the article 2004 is when the infamous Rothchilds stopped "fixing" the market. Just before the start of this bull run. Hmm

the Rothschilds withdrew in 2004 being a member of the fixing parties, their place was taken by Barclays Cap and the fixing is done twice a day. conspiracy theories have no explanation why a London fixing at GMT 15.00hrs at price "x" does not prevent hours later a considerably high price spike or drop, e.g. when tthe Right Honourable Benjamin Shalom Bernanke speaks, Chancellor Merkel adds her personal spice to the crisis soup cooking in Europe or a leading Greek politician mentions in a speech "we are going to default again on the restructured debt!"

commodities, shares, bonds, currencies can and do fluctuate heavily in minutes based on a variety of news which have an impact on investors' sentiment and decisions. anybody not aware of that fact has either not done his homework or has not the faintest idea of markets and investing.

[Naam]

I think to deny that major financial institutions are involved with rigging multiple financial markets in light of all the evidence that has been surfacing is surely living in denial. Look at how much the LIBOR rates effect. If they are rigging those with such ease for their own gains, why would you think any other market they have control in would be different?

nobody in his right mind denies that rigging in markets has been going on and is still going on. that applies not only to financial markets but to any markets and prices of any product or services.

why would you not be able to comprehend the simple English i have used in my single sentence comment? or are you deliberately trying to distort/misinterprete my comment?

Excuse me.. but where exactly did I misquote you? Not every comment I make is addressed at you. I know this is hard for you to fathom since your ego seems to be so dam_n big I'm not sure how you even fit it in your mansion of a house.

please explain whom you were addressing when writing "why would you think..?" following my quoted comment. the tooth fairy?

[yoshiwara]

The problem for LIBOR is that is actual setting is/was so archaic. A lot of attention at the House of Commons committee meeting focussed on the period towards the end of 2008 when the context was the extreme stress in the financial markets. The MP 'Gotcha' crew (mostly Labour) studiously ignored this reference point when having a go at Barclays and the BoE. It was pointed out to them on a number of occasions that the attempted nudging of the Libor rate downwards helped in the dousing of the crisis flames. The reported rates from banks had little meaning anyway as the market was completely frozen. So now they have to change the Libor setting procedure. Life goes on. The question to ask the bombast gold bugs is this: what changes to the setting of the gold rate would have changed the 19% dropping of the gold price since last September? In their conspiratorial world it is difficult to know what is up or down.

[Jayman]

I think to deny that major financial institutions are involved with rigging multiple financial markets in light of all the evidence that has been surfacing is surely living in denial. Look at how much the LIBOR rates effect. If they are rigging those with such ease for their own gains, why would you think any other market they have control in would be different?

nobody in his right mind denies that rigging in markets has been going on and is still going on. that applies not only to financial markets but to any markets and prices of any product or services.

why would you not be able to comprehend the simple English i have used in my single sentence comment? or are you deliberately trying to distort/misinterprete my comment?

Excuse me.. but where exactly did I misquote you? Not every comment I make is addressed at you. I know this is hard for you to fathom since your ego seems to be so dam_n big I'm not sure how you even fit it in your mansion of a house.

please explain whom you were addressing when writing "why would you think..?" following my quoted comment. the tooth fairy?

Was addressing to all listening... not specifically to you. If you read it like that then maybe you are one of the "you" I was referring to. If I was from the south I might have said y'all instead.

[ronz28]

HUI at 1400? NUGT parabolic? http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/precious-metals/articles/stock-prices-earnings-valuations-gold-precious/7/18/2012/id/42527

...or am I having wet dreams?

[Naam]

Was addressing to all listening... not specifically to you. If you read it like that then maybe you are one of the "you" I was referring to. If I was from the south I might have said y'all instead.

then you told all who were listening the wisdom that "two plus two equals four". keep up the good job!

[mccw]

commodities, shares, bonds, currencies can and do fluctuate heavily in minutes based on a variety of news which have an impact on investors' sentiment and decisions. anybody not aware of that fact has either not done his homework or has not the faintest idea of markets and investing.

I'm aware of that fact.

My point is mostly I don't believe it's true investor sentiment; more aucistrated moves followed by robots and people jumping on the band waggon. Like all this resistance numbers from charts etc is self fulfilling prophesy; ready to be broken with concerted effort. So many ways to influence for profit; but Many Manipulators and real market forces all at work so of course it's all over the shop and how much control is really there we can never really know unless it all comes crashing down and is rebuilt on physical exchange. But if you look at gold as a monetary value over centuries its movements mostly took a very long time to adjust, along with most other commodities, save for natural disasters, wars and such interruptions. Now is most volatile point in history?

You seem to accept that markets are widely manipulated but don't think it has any great effect. Where as I accept I can't possibly know the true extent but suspect it could be small and massive in more ways than one.

So we can agree to disagree on our agreement

[Naam]

You seem to accept that markets are widely manipulated but don't think it has any great effect. Where as I accept I can't possibly know the true extent but suspect it could be small and massive in more ways than one.

having no idea or access to facts which show what and how big or small the effect is i'm not willing to speculate. basically i am only interested in "how does it affect my investments?" yes, market manipulation has quite often affected my investments in both negative and positive ways. i'm well aware of that fact.

but i'm also aware that there very little i can do about except howling with the wolves and trying to collect a few crumbs which fall from tables at which the big shots are feasting. i can neither fight them nor can i outsmart them. the only thing i can do is trying hard to avoid their hooves trampling on me when they are stampeding.

the proverbial silver bullets to shoot the werewolves (in this thread the golden bullet) will not stop the manipulators. and the times when our politicians had the power to stop them are long gone. fact is the politicians are at the mercy of the big financial hyenas and have to come up with trillions of tax Dollars-Pound-Euros, to be paid by future generations, to shove it up their <deleted> to avoid "systemic" chaos.

[binjalin]

You seem to accept that markets are widely manipulated but don't think it has any great effect. Where as I accept I can't possibly know the true extent but suspect it could be small and massive in more ways than one.

having no idea or access to facts which show what and how big or small the effect is i'm not willing to speculate. basically i am only interested in "how does it affect my investments?" yes, market manipulation has quite often affected my investments in both negative and positive ways. i'm well aware of that fact.

but i'm also aware that there very little i can do about except howling with the wolves and trying to collect a few crumbs which fall from tables at which the big shots are feasting. i can neither fight them nor can i outsmart them. the only thing i can do is trying hard to avoid their hooves trampling on me when they are stampeding.

the proverbial silver bullets to shoot the werewolves (in this thread the golden bullet) will not stop the manipulators. and the times when our politicians had the power to stop them are long gone. fact is the politicians are at the mercy of the big financial hyenas and have to come up with trillions of tax Dollars-Pound-Euros, to be paid by future generations, to shove it up their <deleted> to avoid "systemic" chaos.

this is true... even though their poo smells the same as yours and mine they sit on a better seat... alas...

edit: I do wonder, though, if this is a small buying opportunity? largely got out recently and might be low enough to precede a rise to 1650 ish?

Edited July 23, 2012 by binjalin

[yoshiwara]

.....Where as I accept I can't possibly know the true extent but suspect it could be small and massive in more ways than one.

Well that's sorted then.

[churchill]

PM's seems to be twitching.....

CFTC’s Chilton Sees Silver Probe Concluding This Year

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-23/cftc-s-chilton-sees-silver-probe-concluding-this-year.html

Central Bank Gold-Grab Intensifies Further

http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/gold-commentary/25683-central-bank-gold-grab-intensifies-further-part-i

[Jayman]

back to 1600... do we go up or down from here?

[yoshiwara]

back to 1600... do we go up or down from here?

wherever the Euro goes.........

[churchill]

'The Basel Committee on Banking Supervision is an international regulatory agency that brings together banking regulators from 27 nations including the US, the UK, and China. This past week they published a draft of standards which creates “International consistency” with regards to margin requirements and seek tougher rules for non-centrally cleared swaps in the over-the-counter derivatives market. This proposal helps to align rules for the $648 trillion market for OTC derivatives in which regulators are seeking tougher oversight after the 2008 collapse. The proposal sets out a partial list of assets that companies can use as collateral for trading in the OTC derivatives market. It includes a range of financial instruments to be used as collateral, including cash, government debt, “high-quality corporate and covered bonds,” gold and equities listed on “major” stock exchanges. This is just another example of how the gold role in the financial system is changing; it is becoming viewed as a safe asset class to hold as collateral. If implemented, financial firms trading in the OTC derivative market will be able to use gold as collateral for posting and meeting margin requirements.

The evidence is clear as day when you look at the facts. Gold is moving towards the financial system, not away from it. The bankers and regulators are now considering rule changes to introduce gold back into the financial system. If these proposals take effect in January 2013, the world will realize that gold is here to stay; maybe even MSM will warm up to the idea that gold is a safe asset to own. The only question is at what price gold will be trading at when all this happens.'

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/2012/07/25/bullion-moving-towards-the-financial-system?t=precious-metals

[Naam]

here we go again, nice shot in the foot, best of this year's knickers twister:

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/2012/07/25/bullion-moving-towards-the-financial-system?t=precious-metals

"yada, yada, yada... bullion-moving-towards-the-financial-system? considering reclassifying gold as a risk-free asset... can be treated as cash and therefore risk-weighted at 0%."

moving toward? considering? reclassifying? same as (worthless fiat paper?) cash risk-weighted at 0%?

[yoshiwara]

here we go again, nice shot in the foot, best of this year's knickers twister:

http://www.resourcei...precious-metals

"yada, yada, yada... bullion-moving-towards-the-financial-system? considering reclassifying gold as a risk-free asset... can be treated as cash and therefore risk-weighted at 0%."

moving toward? considering? reclassifying? same as (worthless fiat paper?) cash risk-weighted at 0%?

The article completely misreads what is being proposed and makes a fallacious conclusion. There can be no conclusion whatsoever that gold can be viewed as a risk-free asset. The dumbo author is a fool at best. The Basel proposal adopts gold as a recognised asset class because in periods of stress it is liquid. Liquid does not mean risk-free. An article playing to the gallery. Churchill swallowed it whole.

[Naam]

The article completely misreads what is being proposed and makes a fallacious conclusion. There can be no conclusion whatsoever that gold can be viewed as a risk-free asset. The dumbo author is a fool at best. The Basel proposal adopts gold as a recognised asset class because in periods of stress it is liquid. Liquid does not mean risk-free. An article playing to the gallery. Churchill swallowed it whole.

it's one of "these" websites which use the slightest sliver of reference that can be twisted/misinterpreted and presented as a positive view on Gold. that the essence of the misinterpretations is contrary par excellence ("as risk-free as cash") what the average goldbug believes but is presented by a goldbug² makes me chuckle.

[churchill]

OK I give up ...... but what asset is risk free .. certainly not cash .

I think probable that this will increase not decrease the demand for Gold

Basel Group Seeks Tougher Rules For Non-Centrally Cleared Swaps

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-06/basel-group-seeks-tougher-rules-for-non-centrally-cleared-swaps.html

Basel Proposal Could Mean Big Gains For Gold

http://www.forexlive.com/blog/tag/basel/

[Naam]

Basel Proposal Could Mean Big Gains For Gold

Under today’s proposal, regulators would allow companies

to use a range of instruments as collateral, including cash, government debt,

“high quality corporate and covered bonds,” gold and equities listed on

“major” stock exchanges.

Placing gold alongside the most-secure assets makes sense and will

boost its allure as banks diversify reserve capital to avoid the sovereign bond bubble.

another clown who has no bloody idea but is hallucinating and shooting off his toes.

government debt most secure but sovereign bond bubble?

he does not know that sovereign bonds are government bonds?

"gold alongside most-secure assets like high quality corporate bonds and equities"?

can it get more ridiculous? i think not!

Captain Picard! long-range sensors detected gold alongside most secure... ahm...

corporate bonds and equities.

OH NO! not this... don't waste any ammunition

[Jayman]

OK I give up ...... but what asset is risk free .. certainly not cash .

I think probable that this will increase not decrease the demand for Gold

Basel Group Seeks Tougher Rules For Non-Centrally Cleared Swaps

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-06/basel-group-seeks-tougher-rules-for-non-centrally-cleared-swaps.html

Basel Proposal Could Mean Big Gains For Gold

http://www.forexlive.com/blog/tag/basel/

Thanks for that. Just reminded me I needed to sell the GBP against the USD before the Olympic games kick off.

Forexlive is a great site.

[Naam]

Forexlive is a great site

indeed! the article "...could mean big gains for gold" reminded me to tell the gardener that the lawn should be cut and the sprinklers shut off because we had ample rain last night.

[Jayman]

Forexlive is a great site

indeed! the article "...could mean big gains for gold" reminded me to tell the gardener that the lawn should be cut and the sprinklers shut off because we had ample rain last night.

Actually Forexlive is a real-time blog and after reading the gold article I went to the main page and that's where I was reminded to sell the GBP before the games kick off. But you are such a smart ASS I'm sure you knew that and needed another reason to talk about your gardener. What an elitist.

[Naam]

personal insults from "investors" who pay 13,483 Baht for airconditioner in four instalments because "This makes it much easier on the budget" make me smile

[Jayman]

personal insults from "investors" who pay 13,483 Baht for airconditioner in four instalments because "This makes it much easier on the budget" make me smile

Your an arrogant idiot who knows little more than how to count to 3. We bought the aircon on our SCB credit card as it gives us 1% back on all purchases and we get a discount for using it at power buy. As for the installments, they are mandatory. There is no way to pay it off in one go. The bank actually charges a portion per month and they do so with 0% interest.

For a guy that claims to be such a financial master you are a tired old fool naam. That you bring up how much I paid for a new aircon to try and embarrass me is truly sad. You must seriously be running out of ideas. I hear that comes on quickly at your age.

That you started threats of exposing my aircon purchase a few months ago, I'm surprised it took you this long to actually being yourself to do it. It just makes you look the fool.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Jayman