Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[teletiger]

Nice one.

Naam.

Be careful,

It might start a new thread.

Where do you hide your gold?

in my pond protected by some crocodiles

You moved it from the swimming pool then?

Regards.

[Naam]

Nice one.

Naam.

Be careful,

It might start a new thread.

Where do you hide your gold?

in my pond protected by some crocodiles

You moved it from the swimming pool then?

Regards.

swimming pool is for silver only.

[midas]

Could gold be the next Libor scandal?

US regulator considering an inquiry into London's gold and silver markets to check if prices are open to manipulation

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/mar/13/london-financial-sector-gold-market

[mccw]

Could gold be the next Libor scandal?US regulator considering an inquiry into London's gold and silver markets to check if prices are open to manipulationhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/mar/13/london-financial-sector-gold-market

Of course it is manipulated; everything is manipulated.

[mania]

The World's Biggest Gold Storage Company Is Now Turning Away American Clients

[Naam]

The World's Biggest Gold Storage Company Is Now Turning Away American Clients

that was to be expected.

[churchill]

China May Limit Gold to 2% of Foreign Reserves, PBOC’s Yi Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-13/china-may-limit-gold-to-2-of-foreign-reserves-pboc-s-yi-says.html

[mccw]

China May Limit Gold to 2% of Foreign Reserves, PBOCs Yi Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-13/china-may-limit-gold-to-2-of-foreign-reserves-pboc-s-yi-says.html

On the one hand he's saying we can import 5-600 tons a year; but on the other we'll limit ourselves to 1-2% of total reserves. The two statements don't really add up. Looks like he's just trying to talk down any impact thier buying might have on the gold market so they can keep on accumulating a current or less prices.

[mccw]

China May Limit Gold to 2% of Foreign Reserves, PBOCs Yi Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-13/china-may-limit-gold-to-2-of-foreign-reserves-pboc-s-yi-says.html

On the one hand he's saying we can import 5-600 tons a year; but on the other we'll limit ourselves to 1-2% of total reserves. The two statements don't really add up. Looks like he's just trying to talk down any impact thier buying might have on the gold market so they can keep on accumulating a current or less prices.

If they are saying 5-600 ton a year is what can physicaly be sucked out of the market without upsetting the price; and they have been doing this since last reported gold reserves in 2009 (1054 tons quoted in the article) = reserves of 3-4000 tons today. That's if only counting imported; since they consume all of thier own production its reasonable to add another thousand or more on to that number.

[Naam]

China May Limit Gold to 2% of Foreign Reserves, PBOCs Yi Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-13/china-may-limit-gold-to-2-of-foreign-reserves-pboc-s-yi-says.html

On the one hand he's saying we can import 5-600 tons a year; but on the other we'll limit ourselves to 1-2% of total reserves. The two statements don't really add up. Looks like he's just trying to talk down any impact thier buying might have on the gold market so they can keep on accumulating a current or less prices.

-he said "we can import" not "we are importing" and not "we will import".

-but even if China imports 500-600 tons equivalent value $26/32 billion then there is no need to "talk down any impact" because it's an increase of 25-25% but still less than the average quantity that India imports.

-correct is that the two statements do not add up. the average increase of reserves of the last 5 years was $325 billion per annum. a 2% share (assuming a price per ounce of $1,600) would equate to a mere $6.5 billion value, i.e. 152 tons.

[Naam]

China May Limit Gold to 2% of Foreign Reserves, PBOCs Yi Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-13/china-may-limit-gold-to-2-of-foreign-reserves-pboc-s-yi-says.html

On the one hand he's saying we can import 5-600 tons a year; but on the other we'll limit ourselves to 1-2% of total reserves. The two statements don't really add up. Looks like he's just trying to talk down any impact thier buying might have on the gold market so they can keep on accumulating a current or less prices.

If they are saying 5-600 ton a year is what can physicaly be sucked out of the market without upsetting the price; and they have been doing this since last reported gold reserves in 2009 (1054 tons quoted in the article) = reserves of 3-4000 tons today. That's if only counting imported; since they consume all of thier own production its reasonable to add another thousand or more on to that number.

your calculation shooting from the hip does make sense at all "mccw".

-AU 3000 tons = $156 billion = ~4.87% of reserves

-AU 4000 tons = $208 billion = ~6.50% of reserves

adding another 1000 tons of own production: AU 5000 tons = $260 billion = ~8.12% of reserves

[Naam]

it should of course read

your calculation shooting from the hip does not make sense at all "mccw".

[mccw]

China May Limit Gold to 2% of Foreign Reserves, PBOCs Yi Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-13/china-may-limit-gold-to-2-of-foreign-reserves-pboc-s-yi-says.html

On the one hand he's saying we can import 5-600 tons a year; but on the other we'll limit ourselves to 1-2% of total reserves. The two statements don't really add up. Looks like he's just trying to talk down any impact thier buying might have on the gold market so they can keep on accumulating a current or less prices.

If they are saying 5-600 ton a year is what can physicaly be sucked out of the market without upsetting the price; and they have been doing this since last reported gold reserves in 2009 (1054 tons quoted in the article) = reserves of 3-4000 tons today. That's if only counting imported; since they consume all of thier own production its reasonable to add another thousand or more on to that number.

your calculation shooting from the hip does make sense at all "mccw".

-AU 3000 tons = $156 billion = ~4.87% of reserves

-AU 4000 tons = $208 billion = ~6.50% of reserves

adding another 1000 tons of own production: AU 5000 tons = $260 billion = ~8.12% of reserves

The 6-8 % with a target of ten + makes perfect sense.

I'm pointing to the 2% claim being the one that doesn't make any sense and is a statement made only to talk down the true extent of holdings as said before.

Finite commodities/ rescourses; gold being the one talked of like money in reserves terms, but also I think the much reported on "over supply" / overflowing warehouses full of copper, iron ore, steel, etc etc is part of the same strategy to acquirer / horde all kinds of physical over endlessly printed western currencies.

Of newly issued US, UK, Jap, EU debt/ last 2 years or so china has massively decrease purchases and they all have been forced to purchase thier own bonds. US at 80% etc. links provided previously.

Same on going trend

[Naam]

The 6-8 % with a target of ten + makes perfect sense.

keep on dreaming.

[midas]

Could gold be the next Libor scandal?US regulator considering an inquiry into London's gold and silver markets to check if prices are open to manipulationhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/mar/13/london-financial-sector-gold-market

Of course it is manipulated; everything is manipulated.

” The Guardian was referring to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission questioning whether the daily setting of gold and silver prices in London is open to manipulation. Why now? Simply to desensitize the people of the world to the rampant illusion that is their society.

Why would the banks adhere to the law in one part of their business model and not the other? They would not. It is very clear that the foundation of the modern world is manipulation, not only of markets, but, most importantly, of minds.”

http://silvervigilante.com/libor-gold-silver-fix-manipulation/

[churchill]

A new era for gold?

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2013/03/15/1424472/a-new-era-for-gold/

Izabella Kaminska has been bearish gold and correct for a while but not so sure at this time

'the shifting pattern in demand amongst non-official buyers and gold prices have now fallen for five months in succession – the last time this happened it was 1996 and the great gold rush of the 21st century lay some years away.'

& this could turn very quickly

Edited March 15, 2013 by churchill

[siamamerican]

The run is long in the tooth. For some odd reason some investors think it is always different this time around. Gold will plummet in value and the only question is when. Personally I think Gold is one of the riskiest investments out there but I have believed this for years and obviously have been wrong.

Had people coming into my office back in 2006 asking about real estate investments. Told them I wouldn't dream of investing at the inflated prices. It was a sucker investment and gold is now unless the sky is falling and history is meaningless.

[midas]

The run is long in the tooth. For some odd reason some investors think it is always different this time around. Gold will plummet in value and the only question is when. Personally I think Gold is one of the riskiest investments out there but I have believed this for years and obviously have been wrong.

Had people coming into my office back in 2006 asking about real estate investments. Told them I wouldn't dream of investing at the inflated prices. It was a sucker investment and gold is now unless the sky is falling and history is meaningless.

So where do you recommend people should be putting their money?

[churchill]

Not Cyprus ...Here today gone before tomorrow ....This is theft by the EU ....

Your bank next

take taxes on earned income & then raid earned pensions , then bank accounts then when you die grab the lot

& of course watch out for your house ...

Ulster Bank sending home repossession notices

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ulster-bank-sending-home-repossession-notices-588132.html#.UUQ__0iMa_g.twitter

'Cyprus will impose a levy of 6.75 percent on deposits of less than 100,000 euros -- the ceiling for European Union account insurance -- and 9.9 percent above that.'

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-16/euro-area-takes-aim-at-depositors-in-cyprus-bailout.html

summary here ... http://pawelmorski.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/cyprus-a-brutal-lesson-in-realpolitik-2/

Edited March 16, 2013 by churchill

[Naam]

The run is long in the tooth. For some odd reason some investors think it is always different this time around. Gold will plummet in value and the only question is when. Personally I think Gold is one of the riskiest investments out there but I have believed this for years and obviously have been wrong.

Had people coming into my office back in 2006 asking about real estate investments. Told them I wouldn't dream of investing at the inflated prices. It was a sucker investment and gold is now unless the sky is falling and history is meaningless.

So where do you recommend people should be putting their money?

[Naam]

Not Cyprus ...Here today gone before tomorrow ....This is theft by the EU .... Your bank next

Midas will like it!

[siamamerican]

The run is long in the tooth. For some odd reason some investors think it is always different this time around. Gold will plummet in value and the only question is when. Personally I think Gold is one of the riskiest investments out there but I have believed this for years and obviously have been wrong.

Had people coming into my office back in 2006 asking about real estate investments. Told them I wouldn't dream of investing at the inflated prices. It was a sucker investment and gold is now unless the sky is falling and history is meaningless.

So where do you recommend people should be putting their money?

Not sure in the short term but in the long term I like Asian equities. If the USA recovery gains some momentum Chinese valuations seem enticing. No guarantees but my stance now is the sky isn't falling and look for bargains in all markets I's all part luck and mostly sticking to a solid plan. My luck was stellar during the crisis and pathetic after. My 2 highest dollar investment were BP and GS. Now after 3 years I've recovered most my losses. Both were good investments at the time that went terribly bad.

Basically, I can complain about everything or realize I'm part of everything. The world marches on and it will probably be a much wealthier place 10 years from now. No guarantees but I'll play the odds.

We have disagreed 100% in the past. I can only hope I'm right and the world will keep improving economically as it has for 1000's of years. Some day in the future you will be correct but I doubt today or any time in the next 20 years the global economy will crumble.

[midas]

The run is long in the tooth. For some odd reason some investors think it is always different this time around. Gold will plummet in value and the only question is when. Personally I think Gold is one of the riskiest investments out there but I have believed this for years and obviously have been wrong.

Had people coming into my office back in 2006 asking about real estate investments. Told them I wouldn't dream of investing at the inflated prices. It was a sucker investment and gold is now unless the sky is falling and history is meaningless.

So where do you recommend people should be putting their money?

If I had something like that it would be too much of a temptation to live in a permanent drunken stupor

[midas]

Not Cyprus ...Here today gone before tomorrow ....This is theft by the EU .... Your bank next

Midas will like it!

Sounds bleak. someone suggested it is a trial balloon. If it goes well expect it next in nations with larger deposits.

Gold bugs get the last laugh. Ha ha ha paperbugs!

"With the first light of day after the unprecedented decision to the Eurogroup on the terms of the Memorandum of Agreement and the taxation of savings, hundreds of people flocked to Cyprus stores credit cooperatives Larnaca to withdraw their deposits.

With the opening of stores found they could not withdraw all their money, because the electronic system of credit cooperatives was not working. And when it became possible, writes the Daily Cyprus, the system seemed to finally hit the appropriate amount of the new tax, which provoked strong reactions. Even after the government ordered the stores eventually closed."

http://www.iefimerida.gr/news/95332???????-????-=

Edited March 16, 2013 by midas

[mccw]

Before I saw this I put a link to the Cyprus story in the FC thread.

Seriously; it is strait out thievery. That's money earned through work snatched to pay back money created at the press of a button. It's sickening. Never was there a stronger case for keeping physical over trusting any this system; especially for such poxy returns as what the banks offer.

Never mind the devaluation risks of all the paper creation; the thieves are legalised! As if excessive taxation wasn't enough; just strait out snatching! I am genuinely shocked; <deleted>. I bet this is a test and we see this shit used again and again going forward.

I'm not keeping more than an operating minimum in the bank anywhere. They, the banks, the governments, none can be trusted.

This is from the EU the same EU as France Germany etc, meant to be on a par of civilisation as the US and UK. If it can go down like this in Cyprus it can be done to any of our home countries when the SHTF.

[ronz28]

In the US, the banksters Federal Reserve coordinated price fixing pays depositors 0.025% for deposits now rather than the former usual and customary 5% annually, and this steals a lot more than 10% from savers over several years.

[Naam]

Seriously; it is strait out thievery.

no it is not, it is the done thing. if you invest your money, whether in cash, shares, bonds or whatever, you have to consider potential losses. that also applies to the money under your mattress of which inflation eats up a part and it applies to the physical gold which people bought at higher prices than it trades today.

welcome to reality!

on a side note... tomorrow monday is a legal holiday in Cyprus. i wonder how much cash will be withdrawn on tuesday or transferred to banks abroad. i also wonder how depositors in Italy, Spain and Portugal will react. somehow i have the feeling that the EU has opened a Pandora box.

[Naam]

i wonder how much cash will be withdrawn on tuesday or transferred to banks abroad.

that also depends whether there is enough liquidity in Cyprus banks to meet the transfer demands. i bet my [not so] sweet butt that there is not sufficient liquidity and the answer is "corralito"!

for those who don't speak Spanish:

http://www.economist.com/node/21555972

Edited March 17, 2013 by Naam

[mania]

on a side note... tomorrow monday is a legal holiday in Cyprus. i wonder how much cash will be withdrawn on tuesday or transferred to banks abroad. i also wonder how depositors in Italy, Spain and Portugal will react. somehow i have the feeling that the EU has opened a Pandora box.

I note from the article,

Funds to pay the levy were frozen in accounts immediately, ECB Executive Board Member Joerg Asmussen said.

The levy will be assessed before Cypriot banks reopen on March 19 after a March 18 national holiday.

Sarris said electronic transfers will also be limited until then.

So it is a done deal & these folks have been robbed of 6.75 to 9.9% of their savings in one fell swoop.

I cannot imagine anyone will leave anything of their remaining balance in the hands of the thieves after the banks reopen on Tuesday.

Surely they know this?

Edit: Just saw the "Corralito" explanation & assume it will be the same.

So theft & kidnapping all in one

Edited March 17, 2013 by mania

[Naam]

I cannot imagine anyone will leave anything of their remaining balance in the

hands of the thieves after the banks reopen on Tuesday. Surely they know this?

Mania,

surely you know that no bank on this planet can survive even if only

a small percentage of creditors withdraw their cash deposits.