Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[midas]

Ron Paul Calls for Audit of US Gold Reserves

Texas -- U.S. Rep. Ron Paul , R-Tex., plans to introduce a new bill next year that will allow for an audit of US gold reserves, he told Kitco News in an exclusive interview.

Paul dropped the news in the interview, indicating that the bill still does not have an official name yet but will be unveiled at the start of the new U.S. Congress.

“If there was no question about the gold being there, you think they would be anxious to prove gold is there,” he said of the Federal Reserve.

This is not the first time the congressman has made his pitch. “In the early 1980s when I was on the gold commission, I asked them to recommend to the Congress that they audit the gold reserves – we had 17 members of the commission and 15 voted not to the audit,” said Paul. “I think there was only one decent audit done 50 years ago,” he said.

http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNews20100824DC.html

[Naam]

latest prices of physical precious metals. perhaps of interest for the resident aficionados? prices in CHF, divide by 1.0235 to obtain USD price.

So how many of those 1000 gram bars is the Mrs. getting for her Birthday present?

none. she got her present one month in advance worth around 600g. a small "SUV" because she thinks it's inappropriate to go vegetable shopping using her beloved #1 car. women!

[flying]

Ron Paul Calls for Audit of US Gold Reserves

If Vegas were taking bets on that one .......I would put $$$ on it surely being less than the supposed 8000 tons they claim to hold.

[churchill]

The true value of gold

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e9378c6c-b0b8-11df-8c04-00144feabdc0.html

"It is not surprising, then, that people are returning to gold. Arguably, buyers’ interest is not so much a vote of confidence in precious metals as a lack of confidence in central banks and governments. We may be witnessing nothing less than a populist uprising against the financial system"

[LivinLOS]

Does anyone here buy and sell gold on a week-week/month-month basis taking advantage of small rises/falls..or do most investors just buy and hold on to have a long term store of wealth?

I have my hoard which is savings (gold and silver).. And I spread bet (trade) with very high leverage..

Mostly I trade with silver simply as its been nicely rangebound and easier to 'feel' its resistance for the last year or two IMO. Cashed out on Friday a nice run from 17:7x which was highly geared, 5 or so years living expenses in that one trade.

[Chunky1]

nam do u buy from a particular shop in bangkok? i am very paranoid of being ripped off. thanks.

[Naam]

nam do u buy from a particular shop in bangkok? i am very paranoid of being ripped off. thanks.

our gold business is handled by Mrs Naam who normally buys gold in Singapore (where it is also stashed). she has bought gold in Thailand too and i don't think you have to worry about any rip off... as long as you don't buy gold bars from a street vendor.

[LivinLOS]

nam do u buy from a particular shop in bangkok? i am very paranoid of being ripped off. thanks.

www.GoldMadeSimple.com

But and use their storage system, its 100% allocated gold (as long as you dont opt to buy pool) with no counter party and can be collected / delivered any time.

[cloudhopper]

and can be collected / delivered any time.

Until some government emergency decree says it can't....

[LivinLOS]

and can be collected / delivered any time.

Until some government emergency decree says it can't....

That is of course true.. Tho they would need to surprise the move and secure the multiple separate locations of storage globally. I personally feel there is far less risk of that than your house being robbed, falling down, a vengeful ex, etc.. Then again I have had all the above happen.

But yes if you truly think the world is going to end.. Then the trade to be in is long xanex and ammunition.

Edited August 29, 2010 by LivinLOS

[cloudhopper]

.. Then the trade to be in is long xanex and ammunition.

Yeah I guess prices can only go up as they are both being exhausted.

I think it will end with a single global fiat reserve currency of some kind, suddenly and universally imposed on (and happily accepted by) a world in chaos.

Those least dependent on a functioning financial system as a store of wealth (and its retrieval) will do best during the transition IMO.

[Chunky1]

In Thailand there is no VAT tax. Is there a commission beyond the commission already added into the price listed in the window? Do you get any discount for purchasing a larger quantity? Do they give you documentation to make it easier to trade the gold back in the future? Why does your wife prefer to buy gold in Singapore as opposed to Thailand? Thanks.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Chunky1

[Naam]

1. In Thailand there is no VAT tax.

2. Is there a commission beyond the commission already added into the price listed in the window?

3. Do you get any discount for purchasing a larger quantity?

4. Do they give you documentation to make it easier to trade the gold back in the future?

5. Why does your wife prefer to buy gold in Singapore as opposed to Thailand?

1. Singapore VAT applies only to gold brought into the country. when buying locally VAT applies on coins and jewelry, not bars. VAT is refunded when exporting locally purchased coins, jewelry.

2. there is no price list in any window as the international gold price can move within seconds.

3. no discount, but big bars have a slightly cheaper per ounce price.

4. Credit Suisse 999 bars do not require any documentation.

5. our banks and bank lockers are located in Singapore.

[flying]

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/08/sp-500-gold-silver-charts.html

[lannarebirth]

Like H&S patterns the C&H is largely a function of huge increases in transactional volume when resistance falls. That remains to be see. As for your second chart, well, I note there is still time to use the edit function.

[flying]

Like H&S patterns the C&H is largely a function of huge increases in transactional volume when resistance falls. That remains to be see. As for your second chart, well, I note there is still time to use the edit function.

heheh yeah you know me & I am not a techy/cyclist but I like to look.

Those charts are both from Jesse's & I did have to laugh when i saw the "you bought here"

PS: if that projection were proving to be true I would sell towards the end of 2013

Edited August 30, 2010 by flying

[LivinLOS]

4. Credit Suisse 999 bars do not require any documentation.

Are those readily available in Sing ??

I note many local buyers opt for the baht bars and multiples of, but I see liquidation issues for those outside of the baht weight system.

5. our banks and bank lockers are located in Singapore.

I am always concerned about the possibility of banking failure.. I have read that its possible that safety deposit boxes can become the property of the bank to be used in settlement with creditors if the bank collapses. Tho I understand this is regional rules etc the whole thing can be messy, no FDIC for those of course. Does singapore make this clear ??

[sonicdragon]

CS 999 bars are available in Singapore to clients of CS.

The combination of a Swiss bank in Singapore is a good one as far as safety is concerned. Personally I'm quite cautious in this regard. I only keep original documents in my box, and I spread my dealings among many banks in several jurisdictions.

I'd avoid Thai bars unless you are 100% sure you will be selling them in Thailand.

[churchill]

Like H&S patterns the C&H is largely a function of huge increases in transactional volume when resistance falls. That remains to be see. As for your second chart, well, I note there is still time to use the edit function.

heheh yeah you know me & I am not a techy/cyclist but I like to look.

Those charts are both from Jesse's & I did have to laugh when i saw the "you bought here"

PS: if that projection were proving to be true I would sell towards the end of 2013

Silver's projection also looking strong

Focus on Silver

http://www.gotgoldreport.com/2010/08/focus-on-silver-.html

[Naam]

4. Credit Suisse 999 bars do not require any documentation.

Are those readily available in Sing ?? yes

I note many local buyers opt for the baht bars and multiples of, but I see liquidation issues for those outside of the baht weight system.

5. our banks and bank lockers are located in Singapore.

I am always concerned about the possibility of banking failure.. I have read that its possible that safety deposit boxes can become the property of the bank to be used in settlement with creditors if the bank collapses. Tho I understand this is regional rules etc the whole thing can be messy, no FDIC for those of course. Does singapore make this clear ??

you must be joking! by the way, compared to the M.A.S. (Monetary Authority of Singapore) the SEC is a bunch of choir boys.

[Naam]

CS 999 bars are available in Singapore to clients of CS.

The combination of a Swiss bank in Singapore is a good one as far as safety is concerned. Personally I'm quite cautious in this regard. I only keep original documents in my box, and I spread my dealings among many banks in several jurisdictions.

I'd avoid Thai bars unless you are 100% sure you will be selling them in Thailand.

long time no hear from you Dragon. we missed your professional input! in our case "many" banks, i. e. more than those three we are banking with, would involve too much organisational hassle. reason: all our holdings are in corporate portfolios, integrated in a trust, which is administered by a singaporean company for fiduciary services.

as far as the risk of a bank failure is concerned there is nothing to worry because losses in case of a bank failure can only occur if cash is not guaranteed by the government of the relevant jurisdiction (i don't know of any jurisdiction where this is the case presently).

all our non-cash assets (bonds) are not held with any bank but with Euroclear, Brussels respectively Clearstream, Frankfurt. the only possibility to touch these assets is fraud in combination with the bank's failure. to the best of my knowledge this has never happened with any multinational bank but there was an "incident" a few years ago with the broker house "REFCO". in this context i repeat for the umpteenth time that i wouldn't entrust any broker with a value that exceeds an excellent dinner for two accompanied by a good bottle of wine.

[sonicdragon]

Hi Doc ! I missed you too. Yes, it's been a while since I inhabited these parts. Just on vacation for 3 months, hence a bit of time on my hands.

Indeed, dealing with "many" banks does have it's hassles, though I sleep better because of it. Having worked in banks and other financial institutions most of my adult life, in various roles from trading to internal audit, I have an unshakable distrust of them *all*, including your beloved CS, haha (worked for CSFP/FB in the late 80s / early 90s - actually it was my first job !). If I had to choose one I distrust the least it would be Julias Baer. All my assets and general banking business is presently split among 7 institutions in 4 jurisdictions. Your arrangements seem pretty solid.

The problem with bank failure is not such a problem if it's isolated - the problem could be in the case of a systemic failure precipitated by: the implosion of China, a big war (or nuclear event) in the Middle East, hyperinflation in the US, a G7 sovereign default, or something else entirely that no one expects or is talking about - a black swan event or whatever. Who knows what's going to happen in the next 5 years let alone the next 50 ? And it's the next 50+ that I'm thinking about, for my kids futures.

I can't help but chuckle at your comparison of MAS/SEC. The SEC make themselves look like choirboys (and that would be a flattering comparison) without any help whatsoever from MAS ! The US regulatory enviironment is a shambles these days. Buiter was spot on when he talked about "cognitive regulatory capture" a couple of years ago. Shame he sold out and works for C now !!!

I don't remember you being much of a fan of gold (other than via your wife's jewelry). When did you start buying 999 bars ?

[sonicdragon]

Not sure if the supposed intra-day gold manipulation has got much coverage in this thread (I don't fancy reading through 104 pages) but here's a practically-oriented article that also appeared on ZH (de-rigueur reading IMHO) that highlights the "problem":

http://www.skoptions...-gold-fund.html

Everyone knows that gold has performed very well in the last 10 years. Detractors naturally and understandably point to cherry-picking the starting point (naturally they would prefer 1980 as the start !) but anyway, one point of this article is: if you had shorted gold every day at the morning fix and covered at the afternoon fix you would be up 200% in the last 10 years. Quite remarkable really.

Edited August 30, 2010 by sonicdragon

[sonicdragon]

nam do u buy from a particular shop in bangkok? i am very paranoid of being ripped off. thanks.

If you want internationally tradeable gold bullion bars or coins then go to HK or Sing and buy them from a bank - in HK I have personally used Hang Seng Bank and Bank of China, and in Sing I have used UOB.

[Naam]

Indeed, dealing with "many" banks does have it's hassles, though I sleep better because of it. Having worked in banks and other financial institutions most of my adult life, in various roles from trading to internal audit, I have an unshakable distrust of them *all*, including your beloved CS, haha (worked for CSFP/FB in the late 80s / early 90s - actually it was my first job !). If I had to choose one I distrust the least it would be Julius Baer.

Dragon, take a wild guess which (out of three) is our really beloved bank but J.B. has its limitations too. trading in slightly exotic/illiquid assets is too sluggish for my liking and any indicative prices a trader reads from a Bloomie or Reuters screen are of no interest to me. in this respect nobody beats UBS in obtaining tradeable prices/volumes within minutes. with CS we are still because of a long relationship, private connections and some special services which other banks do not offer.

[Naam]

1. I can't help but chuckle at your comparison of MAS/SEC. The SEC make themselves look like choirboys (and that would be a flattering comparison) without any help whatsoever from MAS ! The US regulatory enviironment is a shambles these days. Buiter was spot on when he talked about "cognitive regulatory capture" a couple of years ago. Shame he sold out and works for C now !!!

2. I don't remember you being much of a fan of gold (other than via your wife's jewelry). When did you start buying 999 bars ?

1. i am happy that somebody with indepth knowledge agrees with my statement :jap: and i can't help smiling when somebody mentions FDIC

2. i am still not a fan of gold and i am not buying any (except for a short excursion to chinese goldmine shares). our gold business is handled by stubborn and pigheaded Mrs Naam who started to buy physical gold in 2007 and who has not stopped buying since then... and may go on buying till we have to live like paupers

[george]

What do you guys think of buying "paper gold" at HSBC?

Pros & cons?

http://www.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/hk/investments/mkt-info/gold?pwscmd=cmd_init

[cloudhopper]

What do you guys think of buying "paper gold" at HSBC?

Pros & cons?

http://www.hsbc.com....pwscmd=cmd_init

If you want to trade gold, with the intention of selling for a profit should the price rise, it should work well for that.

If you want to own gold as insurance against some of the possible calamities listed by Sonic Dragon yesterday, or waking up one morning to find you can no longer log in to the HSBC web site, then IMO there is no substitute for private possession of bullion.

[flying]

What do you guys think of buying "paper gold" at HSBC?

Pros & cons?

http://www.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/hk/investments/mkt-info/gold?pwscmd=cmd_init

Depends on your premise for buying gold George.

Many buyers of gold & silver are of the..."You don't own it if you don't mindset" ( I count myself as one of them )

Others are investor/traders & buy metals/commodities as trade instruments & are happy to hold paper IOU's

Because theirs is a short term deal.

Edit: I see cloudhopper & I posted at the exact same time & basically the exact same answer....

Edited August 30, 2010 by flying

[sonicdragon]

What do you guys think of buying "paper gold" at HSBC?

Pros & cons?

http://www.hsbc.com....pwscmd=cmd_init

For short term trading/hedging, I think it's fine. But for long term investing / disaster protection etc, I would only consider physical. If governments tried to confiscate private gold, you can almost guarantee that paper gold issued by banks would be gone instantly. HSBC is a sound bank overall but it is at the centre of the supposed intra-day manipulation in London. It's also "interesting" that they don't sell physical gold in HK. Beware of the gold ETF GLD. They do not own the physical asset - PHYS is much better and a good alternative to bank paper gold.