Farang

[Thaddeus]

Could it be because some of us look like this.

[Maigo6]

Dave, you are the most obnoxious, arrogant SOB on this forum.

Never !

I am.

[bkkjames]

Dave, you are the most obnoxious, arrogant SOB on this forum.

Never !

I am.

No arguments from me on this point.

[zorro1]

Could it be because some of us look like this.

Bendix wont be happy being exposed

[midasthailand]

I think a topic ... "using the search function" would be worthy of a pinned thread

So essentially you are the self appointed thread monitoring nazi? What you are suggesting is that there should never be any new threads regarding questions about Visa's as I would think every possible question about visa's has been asked and answered at some stage. We should also have no threads about relationships between farang and Thai, as over the years every possible scenario would have been covered.

Jesus, just ignore the thread if you have nothing to contribute! Just like I ignore the annoying threads on three word stories/ 5 word stories etc...

Dave, you are the most obnoxious, arrogant SOB on this forum.

Hey, no need to beat around the bush mate! Which half of you decided that? The Thai half or the US half? dam_n what a meteoric rise from anonymous poster to the most obnoxious, arrogant SOB on the forum. Fortunately you only get one vote. Cheers, hope to meet up some time over a friendly beer.

[midasthailand]

As for the guave theory, the guava fruit is native to Central America. It was brought to Thailand by European traders, much the same way the chilli pepper was. The guava was named after the people who brought it.

So using that theory, the guy that introduced the chilli pepper was a prick?

[bkkjames]

As for the guave theory, the guava fruit is native to Central America. It was brought to Thailand by European traders, much the same way the chilli pepper was. The guava was named after the people who brought it.

So using that theory, the guy that introduced the chilli pepper was a prick?

Not bad Midas, not bad at all. I would have though the the farang that brought chillis here would have been called farang pet mak mai owww aroi kee nok aroi guava farang. Later it was just reduced to farang.

Which begs the question, why to thais refer to black pepper as prick thai?

[onzestan]

Which begs the question, why to thais refer to black pepper as prick thai?

Maybe because white pepper is also prick Thai?

onzestan

[midasthailand]

As for the guave theory, the guava fruit is native to Central America. It was brought to Thailand by European traders, much the same way the chilli pepper was. The guava was named after the people who brought it.

So using that theory, the guy that introduced the chilli pepper was a prick?

Not bad Midas, not bad at all. I would have though the the farang that brought chillis here would have been called farang pet mak mai owww aroi kee nok aroi guava farang. Later it was just reduced to farang.

Which begs the question, why to thais refer to black pepper as prick thai?

Not sure I can answer that here, perhaps I should answer it in the Thai language forum, after searching to make sure no one has ever asked the same question. It is a great pity there is no emoticon to signify tongue-in-cheek, or is this it?

[bkkjames]

Which begs the question, why to thais refer to black pepper as prick thai?

Maybe because white pepper is also prick Thai?

onzestan

I concur with that logic.

[Payboy]

why to thais refer to black pepper as prick thai?

pepper = prick thai

black pepper = prick thai dum

[bkkjames]

why to thais refer to black pepper as prick thai?

pepper = prick thai

black pepper = prick thai dum

ok thanks but my question is (seriously), why to thais call pepper prick thai, I mean is it native to Thailand or discovered here first?

[Stephen Cleary]

The first Persian (Farangi) merchants to arrive in Siam were during the reign of King Naresuan the Great (1555-1605) and it was Naresuan himself who allowed the initial migration of Persians to permanently settle in Thailand. And it was these original Persian trader immigrants a century before the French who were the original 'Farangs'.

The Portuguese were trading in Siam in the early 1500s and were the first 'farang' in Siam. Portuguese diplomats and traders made contact and began relations with Siam soon after the Portuguese conquest of Malacca in 1511. They built a church in Ayuttaya and helped with fortifications, and Portuguese mercenaries even fought in the Siamese army against the Burmese.

Yeah... i know all that. I used the wording 'original farangs' as before the Persian traders arrivals there was no word for 'Farangs'. Portuguese were known simply as portuguese. Associating only with the nobles and royals, the Portuguese had very little influence on the average Siamese. This is unlike the Persians who immigrated to Siam en-masse. As mentioned earlier, the French and Portuguese first came to Siam 'sporadically'.

If you really want to delve into the history books to see who the first westerners in Thailand were, then you may find the possibilty that it was in fact the Venetians and Marco Polo in the early Sukhothai era!. Some historians have argued this!!

Edited October 21, 2008 by Stephen Cleary

[Stephen Cleary]

This is definitely worth reading and it's not from Wikipedia! Persians = Original Farangs

"Persian influences are particularly discernible in the vocabulary of the two dominant languages of this region, i.e. Malay (the lingua franca of the Muslims in the Malay-Indonesian archipelago), and Thai or Siamese (from the 16th century and the Ayutthaya period onwards). To begin with Siam, present-day Thailand, it is deplorable that to the knowledge of the present writer, there exists no comprehensive study of Persian elements in this language. Modern Thai does contain several words of Persian origin which are in current use: for example, the Thai words dork kulaap or kulaap ("rose," from Persian gola@b, "rosewater"), or angun ("grape," from Persian angur). The Thai words for "cabbage," kalam plii, and "cauliflower," kalam dork, contain the Persian loanword kalam, "cabbage." The Persian word for "cauliflower" is gol-e kalam, literally "the flower of the cabbage" which is the exact meaning of the Thai equivalent kalam dork. However, the most widely used Persian loanword is the Thai expression farang, meaning "European." Its origins date to the conflict between the early Arab Muslims and their "Frankish" adversaries. The guava fruit, for instance, brought to Siam by the Portuguese, is still called in Thai ton farang ("Frank's tree"; Harris, "The Persian Connection: Four Loanwords in Siamese", pp. 9-12). As pointed out in THAILAND-IRANIAN RELATIONS, these Persian elements in the Thai vocabulary are to be traced back to the time of the establishment, in the 16th century, of a highly influential and thriving resident colony of Persian-speaking merchants in Siam's then capital of Ayutthaya (see Subrahmanyam, "Iranians Abroad: Intra-Asian Elite Migration and Early Modern State Formation")"

"It is significant that since the 15th century Ayutthaya itself has been known by a Persian epithet, i.e. ˆahr-e na@v (q.v., "City of Boats and Canals") among Persian and other Muslim merchants around the rim of the Indian Ocean (Browne, pp. 397-98; Ebn Mohammad Ebra@him, The Ship of Sulayman, tr. John O'Kane)"

PERSIAN PRESENCE IN ISLAMIC COMMUNITIES OF SOUTHEAST ASIA.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Stephen Cleary

[Moonrakers]

I am sure the term "Deja vu" originates from France, so perhaps France is the link because everytime I read one of these threads I experience deja vu.

[DP25]

This is definitely worth reading and it's not from Wikipedia! Persians = Original Farangs

However, the most widely used Persian loanword is the Thai expression farang, meaning "European." Its origins date to the conflict between the early Arab Muslims and their "Frankish" adversaries.

Which is what I said in my first post. It is a loan word from Crusades. The Persians weren't the farang like you had said, farang was the Persian word for European that they in turn loaned. It is a loan word that is used all over the ME, central Asia, and SEA and had it's origins in the Crusades.

[bkkjames]

When will someone answer my prick thai question?

[DP25]

Black pepper comes from Asia but I don't know exactly where it is native, but would have been in Thailand long before the chilli pepper was.

[bkkjames]

Black pepper comes from Asia but I don't know exactly where it is native, but would have been in Thailand long before the chilli pepper was.

Thank you.

[Payboy]

why to thais refer to black pepper as prick thai?

pepper = prick thai

black pepper = prick thai dum

ok thanks but my question is (seriously), why to thais call pepper prick thai, I mean is it native to Thailand or discovered here first?

same reason as "phat thai" or "muay thai"....

if they were all ancient thai origin - shouldn't they be called "prick siam", "phat siam" and "muay siam"...?

[phaethon]

An interesting account of the use of 'farang-like' words around the region can be found at:

http://www.nectec.or.th/thai-yunnan/20.html

(~3/5 of the way down, heading: The Word Barang)

However it does not answer the question where/when was the first recorded use of the word farang in Thai and with respect to whom?

Edited October 21, 2008 by phaethon

[benjamat]

farangi is an arabic or persian word meaning "foreign"...

I thought it was men with bald heads and big ears.

[JetsetBkk]

I just cannot believe that Jingthing hasn't posted in this thread. Is he OK?

[junki3korean]

fwench

[MetroGirl]

Before mr Jingthing is due to show up,.....

Ok let's conclude this thread from one of the experts

In Thailand - generally here.......(exclude at the gov't level, ex visa thingy)

A Farang is given an automatic "hi-so status"….welcome to any places -

Until proven otherwise…….that he's a

jerk, rat, Wacko, Cracker jack, pyromaniac, Blazing idiot, firestarter, Fire-Bug,CYKO, off tap, BANANA,

screw loose, Loser tosser, eedjit (idiot), nuts, nutty as a fruitcake, not playing with a full deck, one brick shy of a load, loopy,daft, stupid, foolish, nutty, dippy, mad dash, ditsy,whacka doos,insane, Iggy, Headbanger, Nutter,Loony.............etcs

Well U all get my drift....here

[njpski]

What is this word "farang" anyway?

I have heard a similar word from my GF (she is from Khon Kaen) = falung (insert tongue-in-cheek icon here) lol

[sabaijai]

It's a corruption of the word 'Frank', which the term given by locals in the middle east to all Western Europeans during the Crusades. White people are called some version of Farangi, Farang, Barang, Farengi, etc all the way from the middle east to Persia, India, Thailand, Cambodia, etc. It has nothing to do with the French being the first to colonize SEA. The Portuguese were here first anyway.

Best one yet

[Payboy]

It's a corruption of the word 'Frank', which the term given by locals in the middle east to all Western Europeans during the Crusades. White people are called some version of Farangi, Farang, Barang, Farengi, etc all the way from the middle east to Persia, India, Thailand, Cambodia, etc. It has nothing to do with the French being the first to colonize SEA. The Portuguese were here first anyway.

Best one yet

frank - as in the recent ex-owner of man c....

[polecat]

This is definitely worth reading and it's not from Wikipedia!

Hey, moderators! This schmuck is quoting from a source other than Wikipedia. Ban him!

(Regular TVers know that you can't trust anything unless it's been previously uploaded by a Wiki-geek)

[JetsetBkk]

... White people are called some version of Farangi, Farang, Barang, Farengi...

Does Naam know about this?