Police: Bad Boys Or The "fonzie" Factor

[HorseDoctor]

Recently I posted about the cop neighbor kicking my cat ( closed just as it was getting interesting too ) and I got a lot of comments about how afraid I should be, I should move, I'm a pre - op Katoey , etc .. ( btw I am a woman, natural born too !)

Most of the post were genuinely concerned that this guy was going to make my life hel_l, or worse kill me..

I like Sir Burr's post about being polite and firm and how acting lilke a mouse will get you stepped on .

But really , please name me one time a cop has interfered in a violent way in a foreigner's life aside from the Chang Mai drunken episode ??

I really think we enjoy an immunity that Thai folks don't.

Like the Fonzie factor from a TV show n US where a character, Fonzie has everyone afraid but no one can remember or really knows why.

Like the fear itself is all there is to fear..( Gosh, what a great saying!! ) Fear is ..fun. Fear relieves the boredom. Fear is well , a power.

Even on these forums- it just seems to be a way to be better to assert dominance - if you can make me afraid.

( Come to think of it yet another reason left US was I couldn't stand Americans anymore , they were so afraid of well ...just everything. And as I referred to before the Total Police State was bourgeoning. ( sic? ) )

But as an aside and referring to the original post I think this cat kicking cop dislikes having a woman living next to him who is independent, it's setting s a very bad example to his wife and daughter...

He was very nice at first, when I had a male friend staying with me. The subtle and not so subtle hostilities started after he left ..

Oh and there was the trash burning episode ...

Edited October 24, 2008 by HorseDoctor

[jdinasia]

Feeding your need for drama jut doesn't seem wise.

[HorseDoctor]

Feeding your need for drama jut doesn't seem wise.

Yes , good advice taken and thank you but, topic is when have cops killed legally residing foreigners they don't like . Or beat them up ? Or broken other laws to get back at them?

[huggybear]

Recently I posted about the cop neighbor kicking my cat ( closed just as it was getting interesting too ) and I got a lot of comments about how afraid I should be, I should move, I'm a pre - op Katoey , etc .. ( btw I am a woman, natural born too !)

Without seeming rude can I ask why you did not just post this on the original thread?

[HorseDoctor]

Actually I will amend this as was just pointed out from behind the left shoulder , WESTERN foreigners enjoy immunity from Bad Boy Behavior .. we all know how the Burmese are treated.. OK so ...

[HorseDoctor]

Recently I posted about the cop neighbor kicking my cat ( closed just as it was getting interesting too ) and I got a lot of comments about how afraid I should be, I should move, I'm a pre - op Katoey , etc .. ( btw I am a woman, natural born too !)

Without seeming rude can I ask why you did not just post this on the original thread?

Not rude at all , the thread was closed by a person who was not asked to do so by me..

[huggybear]

Recently I posted about the cop neighbor kicking my cat ( closed just as it was getting interesting too ) and I got a lot of comments about how afraid I should be, I should move, I'm a pre - op Katoey , etc .. ( btw I am a woman, natural born too !)

Without seeming rude can I ask why you did not just post this on the original thread?

Not rude at all , the thread was closed by a person who was not asked to do so by me..

my bad, hadn't noticed the closed thread.

Would it be possible for you to be more concise in what you are saying (?), this is not clear for me.

At one point you mention fear, then you go onto say you don't like Americans, then you say you believe the hostility is due to the policemen feeling an independent woman is a bad example for the women in his house (?) (this one I find a bit "out there").

Is there a specific point you are trying to make?

[HorseDoctor]

Recently I posted about the cop neighbor kicking my cat ( closed just as it was getting interesting too ) and I got a lot of comments about how afraid I should be, I should move, I'm a pre - op Katoey , etc .. ( btw I am a woman, natural born too !)

Without seeming rude can I ask why you did not just post this on the original thread?

Not rude at all , the thread was closed by a person who was not asked to do so by me..

my bad, hadn't noticed the closed thread.

Would it be possible for you to be more concise in what you are saying (?), this is not clear for me.

At one point you mention fear, then you go onto say you don't like Americans, then you say you believe the hostility is due to the policemen feeling an independent woman is a bad example for the women in his house (?) (this one I find a bit "out there").

Is there a specific point you are trying to make?

Can you name one instance where cops killed a westerner for any reason?

[jdinasia]

google 'killed by police Thailand'

I can think of several instances. Not to mention more that are questionable.

But really ... don't believe the folks that give you somewhat decent advice.

[PhilHarries]

huggybear, don't worry she is a bit rambling in her posts. However she has a point, it is often stated that us farangs shouldn't mess with the cops or hi-so's or we will end up feeding the fishes.

Okay, other than the Canadians in Pai and the two Brits (?) in Kanchananburi (?) [sorry bad memory on that one], how many other cases are there where farangs were targetted by the BiB?

I must admit I treat the cops with respect, well to their face anyway, antwhere in the world for the plain simple reason that they have the power to turn a good day into a day from hel_l. My advice to anyone in Thailand or anywhere is avoid contact with the police but if you do have to deal with them keep calm and don't insult them.

But can anybody quantify the risk?

[jdinasia]

How many instances of planted evidence etc are there? Deaths that are less than transparent etc etc... who knows ...

There are all kinds of options for harassment that don't include killing. There are also those random things that happen to people that aren't liked, like the ""random"" beatings by tuk tuk drivers etc.

What are the chances for the average farang of getting into this type of situation? Probably slim! What are the chances for someone that is already in conflict with a police boss etc? Probably far far far higher!

[HorseDoctor]

google 'killed by police Thailand'

I can think of several instances. Not to mention more that are questionable.

But really ... don't believe the folks that give you somewhat decent advice.

Yes , what several instances have western foreigners been killed or victimized by Thai police?

See the Googling reference reinfores my point , that it really doesn't happen , that somehow , for some reason this fear shared by many residing here is fed a steady diet of inference that has no real grounding ...

Googling it gets a bunch of Thai visa posts that aren't based on any evidence, either . Like an article in a paper that just recyles the same ol bad piece of information.

What instances if there are so many , just name one.

[HorseDoctor]

Yes, the Fonzie fear factor

[HorseDoctor]

huggybear, don't worry she is a bit rambling in her posts. However she has a point, it is often stated that us farangs shouldn't mess with the cops or hi-so's or we will end up feeding the fishes.

Okay, other than the Canadians in Pai and the two Brits (?) in Kanchananburi (?) [sorry bad memory on that one], how many other cases are there where farangs were targetted by the BiB?

I must admit I treat the cops with respect, well to their face anyway, antwhere in the world for the plain simple reason that they have the power to turn a good day into a day from hel_l. My advice to anyone in Thailand or anywhere is avoid contact with the police but if you do have to deal with them keep calm and don't insult them.

But can anybody quantify the risk?

Sorry I thought this happened in Chaing Mai .. But even then it was more of a random, drunken episode on both sides , no?

Well if you guys read about me ending up dead, cause a cop kicked my cat and I didn't pack up the stable and household and move away the next day- I feel sure you'l inform the Embassy as you're all so fond of me, right? Make sure to tell 'em it was the guy on the west side ' cause the cops on the east side are sweet ( and handsome..) and we get along fine.

[LivinLOS]

So you mean except the kanchanaburi killer ??

Or except the pai canadian killer ??

Or you mean phuket specific ?? Like the 2 armed plain clothes cops that came to my mates house after he broke up with his crazy local wife ?? They turned up and he happened to have a very strong set of locked bars closed with the door open.. They waved cop ID's and said to open the bars.. He asked what for and asked to see the ID closely and they pulled guns and aimed at him.. As he had them outside the house with bars blocking the door he wasnt letting anyone in.. Made a dive for the bedroom.. They told him if he stayed here that he would end up shot or found with drugs.

Or you mean gov types with power not police.. Like the Gov council guy that turned up with 2 hired guns and kidnapped tornados wife in full daylight.. Bag over the head, handcuffs, and took her to his own house (shows how much he cared about being caught) where she was then held and drugged.. Forced to sign papers saying she had been given cash and sign land papers.. They left her locked there and she escaped. When this was reported to the police Tornado was informed there were 2 nakhon hitmen lose and his name was on a contract.. Police advice "Dont go home then"..

A certain Soi Eric bar owner who has been taken into the cells and given a good going over for undisclosed reasons..

Another guy I know was told to leave the island or be found with drugs in his house..

Your not in Kansas anymore Dorothy !! I suspect your one of those women that thinks equal rights and not hitting women extends to the third world. If that fascade ever lifts for you it will all come crashing down rather rapidly..

[LivinLOS]

Ohh and forgetting the random drunken cop gunfight in Phuket town a year or two back.. Tho that was Thai on Thai..

In general I agree with SB.. Act like a mouse and you will get stepped on.. But starting grievances with local cops isnt something I would take lightly.

[slackula]

(snip)My advice to anyone in Thailand or anywhere is avoid contact with the police but if you do have to deal with them keep calm and don't insult them.(/snip)

Sage words.

In my occasional dealings with the BiB over the years (10) that I have lived here I have found them to be generally fair(ish), provided that people don't bring up the old "but that's not how it works in the West" canard. That is a red rag to a bull for them.

The other thing I have learned is that contrition, be it on either side of a dispute, is highly regarded and can go a long way in the resolution/mitigation of a situation.

[Slip]

It strikes me the 3 murders and 1 attempted murder, by police, in one 3 year period is already quite a lot. It would certainly be enough to make me think twice about getting into disputes with the bib, regardless of other situations that may have happened that we don't know about or situations where no murder occurred.

How may foreigners get into disputes with Thai policemen? Who knows but I would imagine most people have more sense.

As jdinasia says there are plenty of other avenues open to a rozzer with a grudge not involving violence. Planted evidence is not even unique to Thailand.

[joskydive]

huggybear, don't worry she is a bit rambling in her posts. However she has a point, it is often stated that us farangs shouldn't mess with the cops or hi-so's or we will end up feeding the fishes.

Okay, other than the Canadians in Pai and the two Brits (?) in Kanchananburi (?) [sorry bad memory on that one], how many other cases are there where farangs were targetted by the BiB?

I must admit I treat the cops with respect, well to their face anyway, antwhere in the world for the plain simple reason that they have the power to turn a good day into a day from hel_l. My advice to anyone in Thailand or anywhere is avoid contact with the police but if you do have to deal with them keep calm and don't insult them.

But can anybody quantify the risk?

Sorry I thought this happened in Chaing Mai .. But even then it was more of a random, drunken episode on both sides , no?

Well if you guys read about me ending up dead, cause a cop kicked my cat and I didn't pack up the stable and household and move away the next day- I feel sure you'l inform the Embassy as you're all so fond of me, right? Make sure to tell 'em it was the guy on the west side ' cause the cops on the east side are sweet ( and handsome..) and we get along fine.

To be honest, I'd be more worried about the animals being attacked and/or poisoned than an attack on yourself. If a few horses or cats and dogs are killed it wouldn't start an international incident, or even get into the international news, would it? Whereas an attack on yourself would.

The cop sounds like he's one of them that wishes to show off his superiority with the minimum of effort, hence kicking the cat, whining about the fence and burning garbage so the offensive smell goes directly into your home.

If you're really worried about your security, I'd invest in some hidden camera's and although that evidence would be after the fact, at least they would confirm the perpetrator. Personally, I'd take the fence down, build a wall, ignore him and stay good friends with the cops on the other side.

[MisterMan]

What I found interesting about your original thread was that everyone seemed to assume HOrseDoctor was a male.

[HorseDoctor]

What I found interesting about your original thread was that everyone seemed to assume HOrseDoctor was a male.

Yes I 've noticed that, even been referred to as a Katoey.

I do guess most of the TV posters are male, but really - women do make up half the population on the planet.

As for poisoning the cats , yes that is usually how it's done here , isn' it . Kinda suprised he didn't do that right off. Maybe he really is a nice guy.

As for hurting the horses , he's on his own with their owners.

I have other neighbors, fat, loud worker types who keep birds in cages out in the sun all day, you know the type, Well the nice cops have cats too and apparently one of them , ( recognizable as testicles intact, no collar ) went up on their porch and " Let a 1000 baht bird out of the cage.." so there was a big hallaboo over that this morning .

Nice cop just looked at me and we smiled together ...

(Mmm get rid of that shrew girlfriend who shrieks in that hideous Thai way all the time , nice, handsome cop )

[HorseDoctor]

So you mean except the kanchanaburi killer ??

Or except the pai canadian killer ??

Or you mean phuket specific ?? Like the 2 armed plain clothes cops that came to my mates house after he broke up with his crazy local wife ?? They turned up and he happened to have a very strong set of locked bars closed with the door open.. They waved cop ID's and said to open the bars.. He asked what for and asked to see the ID closely and they pulled guns and aimed at him.. As he had them outside the house with bars blocking the door he wasnt letting anyone in.. Made a dive for the bedroom.. They told him if he stayed here that he would end up shot or found with drugs.

Or you mean gov types with power not police.. Like the Gov council guy that turned up with 2 hired guns and kidnapped tornados wife in full daylight.. Bag over the head, handcuffs, and took her to his own house (shows how much he cared about being caught) where she was then held and drugged.. Forced to sign papers saying she had been given cash and sign land papers.. They left her locked there and she escaped. When this was reported to the police Tornado was informed there were 2 nakhon hitmen lose and his name was on a contract.. Police advice "Dont go home then"..

A certain Soi Eric bar owner who has been taken into the cells and given a good going over for undisclosed reasons..

Another guy I know was told to leave the island or be found with drugs in his house..

Your not in Kansas anymore Dorothy !! I suspect your one of those women that thinks equal rights and not hitting women extends to the third world. If that fascade ( sic ) ever lifts for you it will all come crashing down rather rapidly..

Uh, I'd settle for this in the " first " world . Women are in more danger from their own mates than any other source , ALL OVER THE WORLD.

[joskydive]

So you mean except the kanchanaburi killer ??

Or except the pai canadian killer ??

Or you mean phuket specific ?? Like the 2 armed plain clothes cops that came to my mates house after he broke up with his crazy local wife ?? They turned up and he happened to have a very strong set of locked bars closed with the door open.. They waved cop ID's and said to open the bars.. He asked what for and asked to see the ID closely and they pulled guns and aimed at him.. As he had them outside the house with bars blocking the door he wasnt letting anyone in.. Made a dive for the bedroom.. They told him if he stayed here that he would end up shot or found with drugs.

Or you mean gov types with power not police.. Like the Gov council guy that turned up with 2 hired guns and kidnapped tornados wife in full daylight.. Bag over the head, handcuffs, and took her to his own house (shows how much he cared about being caught) where she was then held and drugged.. Forced to sign papers saying she had been given cash and sign land papers.. They left her locked there and she escaped. When this was reported to the police Tornado was informed there were 2 nakhon hitmen lose and his name was on a contract.. Police advice "Dont go home then"..

A certain Soi Eric bar owner who has been taken into the cells and given a good going over for undisclosed reasons..

Another guy I know was told to leave the island or be found with drugs in his house..

Your not in Kansas anymore Dorothy !! I suspect your one of those women that thinks equal rights and not hitting women extends to the third world. If that fascade ( sic ) ever lifts for you it will all come crashing down rather rapidly..

Uh, I'd settle for this in the " first " world . Women are in more danger from their own mates than any other source , ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Well, frankly, I'm a woman too and I've lived here for more than 10 years in Pattaya. You know the place, I think they call it sin city for some reason and I can tell you - third world or not. If someone wallops me they will get it straight back and I won't give a fig who or what they think they are!!!

[PCA]

So you mean except the kanchanaburi killer ??

Or except the pai canadian killer ??

Or you mean phuket specific ?? Like the 2 armed plain clothes cops that came to my mates house after he broke up with his crazy local wife ?? They turned up and he happened to have a very strong set of locked bars closed with the door open.. They waved cop ID's and said to open the bars.. He asked what for and asked to see the ID closely and they pulled guns and aimed at him.. As he had them outside the house with bars blocking the door he wasnt letting anyone in.. Made a dive for the bedroom.. They told him if he stayed here that he would end up shot or found with drugs.

Or you mean gov types with power not police.. Like the Gov council guy that turned up with 2 hired guns and kidnapped tornados wife in full daylight.. Bag over the head, handcuffs, and took her to his own house (shows how much he cared about being caught) where she was then held and drugged.. Forced to sign papers saying she had been given cash and sign land papers.. They left her locked there and she escaped. When this was reported to the police Tornado was informed there were 2 nakhon hitmen lose and his name was on a contract.. Police advice "Dont go home then"..

A certain Soi Eric bar owner who has been taken into the cells and given a good going over for undisclosed reasons..

Another guy I know was told to leave the island or be found with drugs in his house..

Your not in Kansas anymore Dorothy !! I suspect your one of those women that thinks equal rights and not hitting women extends to the third world. If that fascade ( sic ) ever lifts for you it will all come crashing down rather rapidly..

Uh, I'd settle for this in the " first " world . Women are in more danger from their own mates than any other source , ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Well, frankly, I'm a woman too and I've lived here for more than 10 years in Pattaya. You know the place, I think they call it sin city for some reason and I can tell you - third world or not. If someone wallops me they will get it straight back and I won't give a fig who or what they think they are!!!

well, that works only until you are messing with the wrong one. I am not advocating to take and swallow everything but turning the back in certain situations is definitely the safer play. Messing with the cops is the most stupid thing one can do in thailand regardless if foreigner or thai. All a face issue as soon the story goes around and if that is happening the thais just switch to braindead mode and accellerate their actions to unpredictable levels.

I didnt read the cat thread and dont know facts but anyway - you mess around, you get uncomfortable consequences to bear with.

Edited October 25, 2008 by PCA

[LivinLOS]

So you mean except the kanchanaburi killer ??

Or except the pai canadian killer ??

Or you mean phuket specific ?? Like the 2 armed plain clothes cops that came to my mates house after he broke up with his crazy local wife ?? They turned up and he happened to have a very strong set of locked bars closed with the door open.. They waved cop ID's and said to open the bars.. He asked what for and asked to see the ID closely and they pulled guns and aimed at him.. As he had them outside the house with bars blocking the door he wasnt letting anyone in.. Made a dive for the bedroom.. They told him if he stayed here that he would end up shot or found with drugs.

Or you mean gov types with power not police.. Like the Gov council guy that turned up with 2 hired guns and kidnapped tornados wife in full daylight.. Bag over the head, handcuffs, and took her to his own house (shows how much he cared about being caught) where she was then held and drugged.. Forced to sign papers saying she had been given cash and sign land papers.. They left her locked there and she escaped. When this was reported to the police Tornado was informed there were 2 nakhon hitmen lose and his name was on a contract.. Police advice "Dont go home then"..

A certain Soi Eric bar owner who has been taken into the cells and given a good going over for undisclosed reasons..

Another guy I know was told to leave the island or be found with drugs in his house..

Your not in Kansas anymore Dorothy !! I suspect your one of those women that thinks equal rights and not hitting women extends to the third world. If that fascade ( sic ) ever lifts for you it will all come crashing down rather rapidly..

Uh, I'd settle for this in the " first " world . Women are in more danger from their own mates than any other source , ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Well, frankly, I'm a woman too and I've lived here for more than 10 years in Pattaya. You know the place, I think they call it sin city for some reason and I can tell you - third world or not. If someone wallops me they will get it straight back and I won't give a fig who or what they think they are!!!

ha ha ha.. Yeah sure you would..

Dont confuse a slap with what real violence is.. Theres a reason male and female boxers dont compete against each other.

Jesus equality issues get silly.. Now we have women wanting to outfight men..

[joskydive]

I don't think you read what I said carefully either. I stated that if someone wallops me they would get it straight back. At no time would I start anything like that as I have no interest in aggression or bullying and do not think it is big or an advantage at any time.

Is what you are suggesting that although you are being attacked and beaten you should just lie down and take it? When do you start protecting yourself? When you have been beaten unconscious or dead?

[joskydive]

So you mean except the kanchanaburi killer ??

Or except the pai canadian killer ??

Or you mean phuket specific ?? Like the 2 armed plain clothes cops that came to my mates house after he broke up with his crazy local wife ?? They turned up and he happened to have a very strong set of locked bars closed with the door open.. They waved cop ID's and said to open the bars.. He asked what for and asked to see the ID closely and they pulled guns and aimed at him.. As he had them outside the house with bars blocking the door he wasnt letting anyone in.. Made a dive for the bedroom.. They told him if he stayed here that he would end up shot or found with drugs.

Or you mean gov types with power not police.. Like the Gov council guy that turned up with 2 hired guns and kidnapped tornados wife in full daylight.. Bag over the head, handcuffs, and took her to his own house (shows how much he cared about being caught) where she was then held and drugged.. Forced to sign papers saying she had been given cash and sign land papers.. They left her locked there and she escaped. When this was reported to the police Tornado was informed there were 2 nakhon hitmen lose and his name was on a contract.. Police advice "Dont go home then"..

A certain Soi Eric bar owner who has been taken into the cells and given a good going over for undisclosed reasons..

Another guy I know was told to leave the island or be found with drugs in his house..

Your not in Kansas anymore Dorothy !! I suspect your one of those women that thinks equal rights and not hitting women extends to the third world. If that fascade ( sic ) ever lifts for you it will all come crashing down rather rapidly..

Uh, I'd settle for this in the " first " world . Women are in more danger from their own mates than any other source , ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Well, frankly, I'm a woman too and I've lived here for more than 10 years in Pattaya. You know the place, I think they call it sin city for some reason and I can tell you - third world or not. If someone wallops me they will get it straight back and I won't give a fig who or what they think they are!!!

ha ha ha.. Yeah sure you would..

Dont confuse a slap with what real violence is.. Theres a reason male and female boxers dont compete against each other.

Jesus equality issues get silly.. Now we have women wanting to outfight men..

I'm not confusing anything! I had 24 years with a lovely English wife batterer. I do know what I'm talking about. That's why I'd rather be here with a nice chilled out lifestyle than live there with all that crap but I wouldn't take it on the chin from anyone again. That's for sure!

[huggybear]

huggybear, don't worry she is a bit rambling in her posts. However she has a point, it is often stated that us farangs shouldn't mess with the cops or hi-so's or we will end up feeding the fishes.

I guess my point to the OP would be, if you make noise with this guy don't be surprised with the consequences. Me? I prefer to lay low and fly under the radar as best as possible.

As Mickey Rourke said in Barfly " I don't hate cops, I just feel better when they are not around".

[HorseDoctor]

huggybear, don't worry she is a bit rambling in her posts. However she has a point, it is often stated that us farangs shouldn't mess with the cops or hi-so's or we will end up feeding the fishes.

I guess my point to the OP would be, if you make noise with this guy don't be surprised with the consequences. Me? I prefer to lay low and fly under the radar as best as possible.

As Mickey Rourke said in Barfly " I don't hate cops, I just feel better when they are not around".

Agreed

I am making an effort to keep my cats on my property and I certainly am not going to engage him in any way. I"m also not going to tuck tail and move just because he's an asshol_e pig neighbor. It's ridiculous to even suggest that is my only option or else, as some were saying .

However, I will put a very powerful Celtic Curse on his household next new moon.

dam_n , I'm fresh outta eye of newt.

[HorseDoctor]

So you mean except the kanchanaburi killer ??

.............

Your ( sic ) not in Kansas anymore Dorothy !! I suspect your (sic) one of those women .......

Good grief!!

Edited October 25, 2008 by HorseDoctor