Near Slave Wages Are Common In Parts Of Thailand

[brahmburgers]

17 year old lady Thai lady I know just lost her job:

She was working at Shell petrol station

10 hours a day, 7 days a week = 280 hours per month.

her salary, 4,000 baht per month = a shade over 14 baht per hour. Considered a good job in northern Thailand.

Immigrant laborers consider themselves lucky to get a menial job at 3,000 baht per month.

though they usually get Sundays off, so it's 10 hours per 6-day week = 12.5 baht per hour

Among the closest to slave wages are the young women who work for Chinese-run homes or businesses.

The Chinese have a deep tradition of indentured servants, so it's not uncommon for a worker to

be obliged to be active 12 to 16 hours per day, 7 days a week. ..essentially all their waking hours.

Indeed, some are not allowed off the premises. They work for virtually nothing, as it's an arrangement between their parents and their employers - and thought of (by parents) as a way for the young person to live in the city and/or gain some experience in life. There is sometimes a stipend of roughly 2,000 baht per month.

So, at 16 hrs/day, 7 days/week, a 2,000 baht/month gal would garner about 4 baht per hour. It sounds outrageous, but it's actually rather common arrangement.

It's also not uncommon for sexual misconduct and beatings to take place, but that's another few chapters.

[Geroc]

Yes, it's true. Small farmers earn around 35/50000 baht per year. A building worker 4500/5000 for 6 or 7 days per week.

Even in town, a secretary can get 5000/per month for 6 days per week and 9 hours per day.

A teacher gets 15000 per month. A certified optometrist working every day (1 day off per month) 12 hours per day can get 20000, included sale bonus (Top Charoen).

Salaries are low in Thailand for the most part of workers and employees. But we can't compare to salaries in very industrialised countries where the life is really more expensive.

Economic growth is pretty good for many years, and life will be more and more comfortable for thai people.

Some Thai-Chinese people abuse of young housekeepers working as "slaves". Yes, surely. For me, I often see western tourists or expats querelling with a seller on the market, or a taxi-bike driver, for getting a 20 baht cheaper price...

And I really don't like it.

Geroc

[GuestHouse]

It's worse than that, if a customer does a bunk without paying the owners deduct the cost of the stolen fuel from the pump attendant's salary.

[h90]

Yes, it's true. Small farmers earn around 35/50000 baht per year. A building worker 4500/5000 for 6 or 7 days per week.

Even in town, a secretary can get 5000/per month for 6 days per week and 9 hours per day.

A teacher gets 15000 per month. A certified optometrist working every day (1 day off per month) 12 hours per day can get 20000, included sale bonus (Top Charoen).

Salaries are low in Thailand for the most part of workers and employees. But we can't compare to salaries in very industrialised countries where the life is really more expensive.

Economic growth is pretty good for many years, and life will be more and more comfortable for thai people.

Some Thai-Chinese people abuse of young housekeepers working as "slaves". Yes, surely. For me, I often see western tourists or expats querelling with a seller on the market, or a taxi-bike driver, for getting a 20 baht cheaper price...

And I really don't like it.

Geroc

I think the farmer is better than the usual 5000 Baht/month office-worker in Bangkok. The farmer has a place to live and if he is smart he has fish, chicken, rice (and some smart one even pork) for free and can keep the money.

One girl without own land who makes rubber has 200.000 on her bank account. She told she spend 0 Baht, food for free, living for free.

While in Bangkok, if a family has children and say 10.000 Baht per month it is not easy.

[rishi]

I think the farmer is better than the usual 5000 Baht/month office-worker in Bangkok. The farmer has a place to live and if he is smart he has fish, chicken, rice (and some smart one even pork) for free and can keep the money.

One girl without own land who makes rubber has 200.000 on her bank account. She told she spend 0 Baht, food for free, living for free...

You're quite right on this one. I couldn't believe it when my parents-in-law suggested that a job working in the rice fields for 100 Baht a day were a reasonable way of making a living in Thailand. However, in small communities where a large portion of inhabitants are some sort of family member, noone needs cash to survive - and who the heck needs a car or a skytrain ticket when all basic needs (included work to yield pocket money) are covered within sensible walking distance?

I pity the tribal people, the Burmese immigrant-workers, and others to whom the term 'slaves' actually does fit and of which there are an abundance of in Thailand, though.

[VegasVic]

17 year old lady Thai lady I know just lost her job:

She was working at Shell petrol station

10 hours a day, 7 days a week = 280 hours per month.

her salary, 4,000 baht per month = a shade over 14 baht per hour. Considered a good job in northern Thailand.

Immigrant laborers consider themselves lucky to get a menial job at 3,000 baht per month.

though they usually get Sundays off, so it's 10 hours per 6-day week = 12.5 baht per hour

Among the closest to slave wages are the young women who work for Chinese-run homes or businesses.

The Chinese have a deep tradition of indentured servants, so it's not uncommon for a worker to

be obliged to be active 12 to 16 hours per day, 7 days a week. ..essentially all their waking hours.

Indeed, some are not allowed off the premises. They work for virtually nothing, as it's an arrangement between their parents and their employers - and thought of (by parents) as a way for the young person to live in the city and/or gain some experience in life. There is sometimes a stipend of roughly 2,000 baht per month.

So, at 16 hrs/day, 7 days/week, a 2,000 baht/month gal would garner about 4 baht per hour. It sounds outrageous, but it's actually rather common arrangement.

It's also not uncommon for sexual misconduct and beatings to take place, but that's another few chapters.

Apparently this has been going on for many years, my wife use to tell me about how families in Issan would send their daughters to BKK when they were 12 years old to be indentured servants for these wealthy chinese families, just as you pointed out. The cost of land in Thailand always amazed me, given the fact that the workers make such meager wages. It must take a rural family many years of savings just to be able to purchase 1 rai of land (even paddy land)! No wonder so many Thais drean of coming to America or Europe to make a decent wage. As for the poster who talked about the farang or tourist arguing with the thai taxi driver or merchant about a few baht, that type of behavior always angers me as well. I see it all the time on our cruises and trips to Mexico and it gets me so angry at times that I have wound up intervening.

[brahmburgers]

one irony to the paltry wage scenario, is many of the lowest wage earners have nicer mobile phones than well-off farang.

Motorbikes also: I drive a 10-year old Yamaha 100cc with cracks and epoxy smudged fixings. My workers all have late model Hondas, and they keep them shiny new. The sad part is, because they insist on buying things brand new, they get caught in the web of paying 18 to 20% interest payments to the sharks at the dealerships. So, those at the lowest rungs are compelled to pay a sum total of about 58,000 baht for a 33,000 baht bike. They don't understand the usury of high interest rates.

As for buying land. Most rural land-holding Thais get their land via some sort of hand-out - either by family or village arrangement. Often, those holdings are without title. I just bought a beautiful 4 rai unimproved piece for Bt.320,000 total. It doesn't have title, but I'm willing to take the chance, as I have firm friends who have been lifelong friends with the seller and his family. The clincher is, the seller got the land 18 years ago for 65 baht. Yes that's right, I didn't omit any zeros. I have that the paper receipt. The seller made a 319,935 baht profit, but I'm not complaining.

But none of that excuses the near slave wages paid by opportunistic cold-hearted employers. The same employers who drive around in expensive cars and live lavish lifestyles. In a similar vein, Thaksin magnanimously gave money away to peasants, and got them to believe it was his personal money, when it was gov't money, (much of it from lottery proceeds, as he was in charge of the 3 person oversight committee).

If there's a massive peasant uprising, it won't come to soon - in my view.

[henryalleman]

17 year old lady Thai lady I know just lost her job:

She was working at Shell petrol station

10 hours a day, 7 days a week = 280 hours per month.

her salary, 4,000 baht per month = a shade over 14 baht per hour. Considered a good job in northern Thailand.

Immigrant laborers consider themselves lucky to get a menial job at 3,000 baht per month.

though they usually get Sundays off, so it's 10 hours per 6-day week = 12.5 baht per hour

Among the closest to slave wages are the young women who work for Chinese-run homes or businesses.

The Chinese have a deep tradition of indentured servants, so it's not uncommon for a worker to

be obliged to be active 12 to 16 hours per day, 7 days a week. ..essentially all their waking hours.

Indeed, some are not allowed off the premises. They work for virtually nothing, as it's an arrangement between their parents and their employers - and thought of (by parents) as a way for the young person to live in the city and/or gain some experience in life. There is sometimes a stipend of roughly 2,000 baht per month.

So, at 16 hrs/day, 7 days/week, a 2,000 baht/month gal would garner about 4 baht per hour. It sounds outrageous, but it's actually rather common arrangement.

It's also not uncommon for sexual misconduct and beatings to take place, but that's another few chapters.

A waitress in the outdoors restaurant at Pimarn hotel Nakhon Sawan gets 2500 Baht a month, for a 6 day a week from 10am till 11pm, if she alway's gets on time and don't get sick she have a bonus of 500 Baht at the end of the month. Her husband works in Uthai Thani as an musician for the same salary. They have one daughter 3 years old, who stay with grand parents.

A shoe salesman in Big C Nakhon Sawan gets 7000 Baht a month(1 day a week off) include sales bonus. A handyman in some condo complex gets about 3000 Baht a month for a 12 hour working 7 day's a week, his wife is a maid in some Thai housekeeping and gets 2000 baht a month also 7 day working week. All laundry she have to make by hand. They are Burmees fugitives and their daughter can not intend school because she is not a Thai National.

And they are still the lucky ones. The Thai national statistic office shows that nearly 50% of the farm and houseworkers in Isan not even get a salary. This explaines why vote buying is so popular in Isan. This year I made a tour in the Mae Hong Song Valley. The living conditions and housing are

terrible. But everywhere I went, I saw that they spend useless money for new temples and erect expensive arches for the Kings sister, and the celebration for the 60 years ruling of the king. I realy don't understand how Thai people still proclaim they live in a wonderfull country.

LOS is still a feudal country where religion and ruling classs walk hand in hand to keep the people docile and stupid.

//Edit: deleted last two sentences because they were in violation of forum rules. -- Maestro

Edited October 26, 2008 by Maestro

[Soutpeel]

ruling classs walk hand in hand to keep the people docile and stupid.

You could use this description for many countries in the world, not just Thailand....the UK and US spring to mind...

[longtom]

Most of the above mentioned wages are clearly below the minimum salary in Thailand. How is that possible (resons other than TIT)?

[Goyave]

http://www.d-trac.org/en/average_thai_wages

http://www.thailand-focus.com/thailand.htm

A few years ago (in 2005 or 2006), I read that the average monthly salary in Thailand was a little bit more than 7000 baht. In the rural parts of this country, most of the locals could easily live with as little as 3000 baht per month... provided that nobody (marketing companies for instance) makes them believe that they must have the latest model of cell phone, a brand new home theater system, a powerful pickup truck, etc.

Fulfilling the essential needs is not a real problem there, but it's all the other artificially created (often by multinational companies such as Nokia, Sony, Toyota, Isuzu...) needs that lead them to borrow money to the loan sharks... and that's also why many girls from I-San choose (yes, choose!) to work as prostitutes as it's a way to earn usually much more than the average monthly salary. They are then able to help their families to reimburse their debts and/or buy other non essential products of our mercantile society.

Anyway, they could not earn high salaries as the local public educational system does not really help (IMHO) to acquire the knowledge and skills to apply for the well-paid jobs. They will know much about Buddhism, but still count with their fingers at the end of their schooling! And the various successive local governments do not seem to care nor do much to change this in the rural areas. As if they want that an important percentage of the population remains poor for there is still a large pliable and cheap labour force available (to work in the rice fields, for instance).

So, can you name the real major pimps in third world and developing countries now? Isn't it Nokia, Sony, Toyota, Isuzu (etc.) with the help of local governments? Just think about it...

Edited October 26, 2008 by Goyave

[soundman]

So, can you name the real major pimps in third world and developing countries now? Isn't it Nokia, Sony, Toyota, Isuzu (etc.) with the help of local governments? Just think about it...

AIS, CP, Shinawatra.....

and yes you are right - the marketing companies

and the politicians who make cheap loans available to people who cannot afford them, so they can buy products from those same politician's businesses......

[Jingthing]

Yes, surely. For me, I often see western tourists or expats querelling with a seller on the market, or a taxi-bike driver, for getting a 20 baht cheaper price...

And I really don't like it.

Why does this bother you more than seeing any other "type" of person haggle. I really don't understand what you are saying. All people from the "west" are rich and should pay more, is that it? BTW, I personally avoid haggling situations as much as possible as culturally I don't find it pleasant, but I don't see the point of making assumptions about the motivations or ethics of other people without knowing their specific situation or specific level they may have been overcharged by the Thai merchant, and I don't care enough to find out either. Any price negotiation is a private matter between the potential seller and potential buyer regardless of race, nationality, visa type, tourism classification -- end of story in my book.

That said, I have noticed non-Thais here are often not versed in how to negotiate in a soft, smiling, non-obnoxious way but I have also noticed some hardened Thai merchants who aren't interested in interacting with foreigners in a Thai way either, so it goes both ways. That is just a clash of cultures and part of the scenery.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[monty]

Hmm,

My wife just started back in construction, she pays salaries between 200 and 290 Baht/day. They work 8 hours a day, anything more is overtime at 150%.

They take days of as they wish since they are paid per day (not a monthly fixed salary).

Couple of boxes of Chang a month to keep them happy as well, and free pig on spit on New Years eve

[henryalleman]

Yes, surely. For me, I often see western tourists or expats querelling with a seller on the market, or a taxi-bike driver, for getting a 20 baht cheaper price...

And I really don't like it.

Why does this bother you more than seeing any other "type" of person haggle. I really don't understand what you are saying. All people from the "west" are rich and should pay more, is that it? BTW, I personally avoid haggling situations as much as possible as culturally I don't find it pleasant, but I don't see the point of making assumptions about the motivations or ethics of other people without knowing their specific situation or specific level they may have been overcharged by the Thai merchant, and I don't care enough to find out either. Any price negotiation is a private matter between the potential seller and potential buyer regardless of race, nationality, visa type, tourism classification -- end of story in my book.

That said, I have noticed non-Thais here are often not versed in how to negotiate in a soft, smiling, non-obnoxious way but I have also noticed some hardened Thai merchants who aren't interested in interacting with foreigners in a Thai way either, so it goes both ways. That is just a clash of cultures and part of the scenery.

You are correct, if you find it too expensive, just don't buy it or don't use the service. But on the other hand its the Thai official organisations like Musea, wild parks and others who ask a much more higher price from Farangs(up to 200%),hotels also use dual pricing, and this is allien for Europeans because over here all prices ar adverised, and bargaining don't exists in our culture.The common Thai shopkeeper and in the market its not so bad, anyhow I never felt cheated with them.

[think_too_mut]

17 year old lady Thai lady I know just lost her job:

She was working at Shell petrol station

10 hours a day, 7 days a week = 280 hours per month.

her salary, 4,000 baht per month = a shade over 14 baht per hour. Considered a good job in northern Thailand.

Immigrant laborers consider themselves lucky to get a menial job at 3,000 baht per month.

though they usually get Sundays off, so it's 10 hours per 6-day week = 12.5 baht per hour

Among the closest to slave wages are the young women who work for Chinese-run homes or businesses.

The Chinese have a deep tradition of indentured servants, so it's not uncommon for a worker to

be obliged to be active 12 to 16 hours per day, 7 days a week. ..essentially all their waking hours.

My friend, those people (like the young lass) last a week or two at a petrol station. They are in for that basic pay plus whatever tips they get - usually doubles the money that makes them happy for a 2 weeks stunt.

Before you declare it as "slave work", consider MacDonalds that pays 18 baht per hour for high school students on holiday work.

[Jingthing]

Any time you are paid some wages and still retain the free will choice to leave your employment, you are not technically a slave. Technically.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[think_too_mut]

Any time you are paid some wages and still retain the free will choice to leave your employment, you are not technically a slave. Technically.

Kids (17 in this example) working jobs with no training, of the street, their holidays or general idling, free to leave at any time (as they do)...what is the slavery here?

[Goyave]

Hmm,

My wife just started back in construction, she pays salaries between 200 and 290 Baht/day. They work 8 hours a day, anything more is overtime at 150%.

They take days of as they wish since they are paid per day (not a monthly fixed salary).

Couple of boxes of Chang a month to keep them happy as well, and free pig on spit on New Years eve

A few years ago (2004), construction workers were usually paid in large construction projects around 150-160 baht in Northeastern Thailand (10 hours of work per day). It was possible to later recruit some of these workers for an individual house construction project and pay them by task (a fixed amount paid once a specific phase is finished).

[Jingthing]

Any time you are paid some wages and still retain the free will choice to leave your employment, you are not technically a slave. Technically.

Kids (17 in this example) working jobs with no training, of the street, their holidays or general idling, free to leave at any time (as they do)...what is the slavery here?

I am talking more of the millions stuck in dire poverty for their entire lifetimes. There are strong elements of feudal society here and not a whole lot of hopeful options for someone from a poor family with no education.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[benjamat]

Yes, surely. For me, I often see western tourists or expats querelling with a seller on the market, or a taxi-bike driver, for getting a 20 baht cheaper price...

And I really don't like it.

Why does this bother you more than seeing any other "type" of person haggle. I really don't understand what you are saying. All people from the "west" are rich and should pay more, is that it? BTW, I personally avoid haggling situations as much as possible as culturally I don't find it pleasant, but I don't see the point of making assumptions about the motivations or ethics of other people without knowing their specific situation or specific level they may have been overcharged by the Thai merchant, and I don't care enough to find out either. Any price negotiation is a private matter between the potential seller and potential buyer regardless of race, nationality, visa type, tourism classification -- end of story in my book.

That said, I have noticed non-Thais here are often not versed in how to negotiate in a soft, smiling, non-obnoxious way but I have also noticed some hardened Thai merchants who aren't interested in interacting with foreigners in a Thai way either, so it goes both ways. That is just a clash of cultures and part of the scenery.

Agreed, the comments about people who haggle being some sort of lesser species are plainly insulting and show a complete lack of knowledge and experience in these things.

The facts are that in many world locations haggling is expected and is part of the culture. The initial asking price is no more than a starting point. In addition the haggling can be an interesting and enjoyable experience to many people.

In the end you can be sure that no matter what you pay you will have given the seller a profit.

[henryalleman]

Any time you are paid some wages and still retain the free will choice to leave your employment, you are not technically a slave. Technically.

Kids (17 in this example) working jobs with no training, of the street, their holidays or general idling, free to leave at any time (as they do)...what is the slavery here?

"Before you declare it as "slave work", consider MacDonalds that pays 18 baht per hour for high school students on holiday work."

and the reactions above are showing a very sad mentality. Its the typical Thai mentality of kissing the feet of the one of an higher position and step on the head of the one who have lower position.

[LaoPo]

Any time you are paid some wages and still retain the free will choice to leave your employment, you are not technically a slave. Technically.

Kids (17 in this example) working jobs with no training, of the street, their holidays or general idling, free to leave at any time (as they do)...what is the slavery here?

"Before you declare it as "slave work", consider MacDonalds that pays 18 baht per hour for high school students on holiday work."

and the reactions above are showing a very sad mentality.

Its the typical Thai mentality of kissing the feet of the one of an higher position and step on the head of the one who have lower position.

That's not just typical Thai; it's a world wide behavior mentality.

LaoPo

[bankei]

I know of one young lady who has a European boyfriend who allegedly sends her 100,000B per month. Not satisfied with this low wage, she also has other boyfriends who also send money.

Its just not fair!

[cclub75]

You want to know more about average monthly wages of employees, per industry, in Thailand ?

Agricultural = 3 473 THB - Non agricultural = 9 270 THB

(figures Q4 2007)

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/2008/04/03...m-2002-to-2007/

[cclub75]

Any time you are paid some wages and still retain the free will choice to leave your employment, you are not technically a slave. Technically.

Same for someone living in a western country... when he takes a loan on 25 or 30 years (Spain, Uk etc.) to buy a house/apartment (shoebox size) at horrendous price.

He isn't a slave.

Technically .

Edited November 2, 2008 by cclub75

[piewarmer]

I have flower sellers coming through the bar every night

even during weekdays, when schools are supposed to be attended

we get mum sitting outside sending her very young kiddies to sell flowers,

sometimes beyond 2am. I consider these children slaves.

I just wonder what I can do, buying flowers encorages them too much.