Was Adopted And Wish To Have My Thai Nationality Back

[Comehome]

Hi!

I was born in Bangkok 1976 and was adopted to Sweden at early age.

I have been trying to have my thai citizenship back for a while but with no success.

I have:

-Thai birth cirtificate

-Thai passport (expired 1982), a fingerprint as my signature since I couldn't sign

-Adoption papers

-Paper from Teesabaan where it says that both my mother and father is thai.

The problem is now that I was adopted by a lawyer, Mr. Prajak Chouylai, who also was known for kidnapping and selling children at that time.

I have found the lady who is my "mother" on my birhtcertificate, but in real life, she is not. She gave birht to a son only a few months before I was born according to my records. She also agressivly refused to go with me and make a DNA-test.

When I came to Laksi in Bkk to ask to be re-entered into the thai national system, they said that my case was "veeery difficult" and from what my thaifriend told me they meant they wanted some money for it. At that time I didn't want to give them any money, which I have regretted one or two times. I just wasn't ready to do that then and I didn't know then what I know now.

I am in Thailand at the moment and my daughter is born here too.

I wish to stay here, since I feel that I truely have come home again.

Any suggestions on what more I can do?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

/comehome

Edited October 25, 2008 by Comehome

[jdinasia]

Get a good lawyer

[Comehome]

Believe me, I had a lawyer and he just dissapeared one day without a word.

When I finally got in touch with him, he send me to his collegues, since he had quit the firm.

I will not say the lawfirm here but I will never go back to them again.

They tried to charge me 15000 baht only to go with me from their office to Laksi.

I didn't do it. I thanked them politely and went there myself.

But I guess the lawfirm had already called them so they knew I was coming there. That is probably why they wanted money for helping me.

[Comehome]

I know I am not the only one trying to have my thai citizenship back.

Over 1000 children came to sweden from Thailand born around 1976-77 and most of us came with fake papers.

[Mario2008]

The qeustion is are you sure you lost your Thai nationality? How did you lose your Thai nationality.

Might be easier to apply for a Thai passport at an embassy with your birth certificate and old passport. Then come back and have you registered in the tabien baan and ask for a Thai ID.

[Comehome]

Hmm.... havn't thought about that!

Sounds like a good idea.

I shall give it a try.

Do I need any housepapers? Because I don't have any housepapers.

comehome

[Comehome]

I don't think I have lost my thai nationlality.

Sweden now allows two nationalities, but I am not sure they did in 1976.

The paper I have from Teesabaan says that I was registred in the thai register until 2005 I think, and now I am taken out of it since I have not been back for a long time.

So I guess they only have to put me back in the register again.

[Mario2008]

Don't think so. But you can check the websites from various embassies. http://www.thaiembassy.org/

Hope you can read Thai, but otherwise have a look at the embassy in the UK.

Edit:

http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/e_passport_en.html

Embassy in UK says ID-card and household registration not needed, but than you need a birth certificate. Some other suggest you need Thai ID card.

Edited October 25, 2008 by Mario2008

[RAZZELL]

I think you've got two questions.

1) Getting your Thai passport - which should be relatively straightforward...

And 2) finding out who you really are. This is going to be very difficult and take time and money...Plus do you really want or need top know the answer...?

If your adopted parents were good people..Just be thankful for that...You might open -up a whole lot of pain.

Good luck in your journey...

RAZZ

[ubonjoe]

When I came to Laksi in Bkk to ask to be re-entered into the thai national system, they said that my case was "veeery difficult" and from what my thaifriend told me they meant they wanted some money for it. At that time I didn't want to give them any money, which I have regretted one or two times. I just wasn't ready to do that then and I didn't know then what I know now. Any suggestions on what more I can do?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

/comehome

I would start at the Amphur (district office) where you are living now. Show them your birth certificate and passport. If you are in an area that has a local village headman they can also help at the the office, they will normally know all the people there. It is part of their job to help with such matters. If you don't own your own home you may have to be put on somebody else's house book it can be a friend willing to let it be done.

Your case is different but not that much from what they deal with a lot. My wife (she is our village head person) recently had to go with a lady that had never applied for a Thai ID in 39 years. It took almost all day but it got done.

Lawyers can help but are not always the best solution.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Joe

Edit: I don't think a consulate will be much help they may just tell you to come here and sort it out. They tend to make decisions based upon what is easiest for them.

Edited October 26, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Mario2008]

THat Sweden didn't allow double nationality is of not important. The Swedish govenrment can't revoke your Thai nationality, only your Swedish nationality. Unless your adoptive parents have denounced your Thai nationality you still have it. Your story so far makes that clear.

The problem for you is to get a Thai passport and ID-card, without a household registration (tabien baan).

That's why it is probably easier to apply for a Thai passport abroad and then have you registered at someones household registration. I rememebr another person a few months ago with the same problem, for whom it was also easier to apply for a Thai passport abroad.

[Comehome]

Hi!

Here we go again....

I am trying to retreiving my thai nationality again.

Have been to Bkk with all my documents and they only tell me they can´t find enough proof that i am the person i claim to be, according to my birth certificate.

Since my adoption papers are false i have no chance what so ever to ever find my biological parents i Thailand.

I have tried to find my family since year 2000.

My best friend is more than happy to sign me into her housepapers but i still need to be re-entered into the thai register for thai nationals and for that i need witnesses.

They asked if my adoptive parents could fly to bkk to testify for me at Laksi district office in Bkk.

After a lot of phonecalls and talking they finally agreed on letting them testify or someone who knew me more than 10 years and knew my story to testify at the Royal thai embassy in Sweden.

Today i got a call from the Thai embassy in Sthlm.

A man told me he could not help me with this case, since i am not in Sweden at the moment.

He said he does not know me and can not be sure i am the person who sent all my documents to them earlier in an email.

He suggested i apply for thai nationality like everyone else.

The thing is that i HAVe thai nationality, it is just that they can not proove it.

If I had thai family who could testify that i am the person i am they would agree.

I wonder if it could be possible for the embassy to verify me with a webcamera?

I can show them all the documents in original, that i already send to them, because i have them here with me as well as my swedish passport.

It is a longshot but perhaps i can call and ask him. Perhaps he could take screenshots?

The only thing the lady in Laksi wants is a statement with the stamp from the Thai embassy in Sweden that i am me.

I am so tired and sad of all these "no:s"..

How many times do i have to be reminded of that i can never ever find my biological family.

It HURTS like crazy and i cry everytime i think of it.

I didn´t really have any choice when i was left by my biological parents only 1 month old and given to europeans.

Why then do I have to struggle so hard to get back what is rightfully mine?

I want to come home...and find inner peace in my heart and soul, instead of having this wound being ripped open over and over again.

I am sorry if i sound too emotional, i just can´t help it.

Please don´t be rude to me, all want is to come home.

Any help humbly appreciated.

Sincerely

Comehome

[TaoNow]

Comehome:

I sympathize with your plight and hope you find a solution. Until then, why not follow the advice of a previous post and get a Thai passport in Stockholm (if you can afford the round-trip air fare)?

[TaoNow]

(Sorry, I didn't finish my post before accidentally hitting the 'send' key).

With a Thai passport you could then re-enter Thailand and stay here indefinitely while you work on getting a Thai ID card and your name and daughter's name on a local tabian bahn document. This strategy assumes that you have adequate means of support from Swedish sources or from local Thai sources that don't require a Thai ID card.

Best of luck and let the Forum know how things work out.

[TerryLH]

Why is it that people ask for answers to their problems, then don't even try to follow advice when they get it? That assumes the advice is any good.

In this case, OP was given good advice, but is apparently ignoring it.

Maybe he can't afford to leave the country to get a passport in another country?

I think once you start getting a lot of offices involved, you often are hurting yourself. Not always, but sometimes.

This might be a good example. OP was advised to get a passport at a consulate or embassy in his own country. He has decided to ignor that, and is now having problems with another solution (he hopes it is).

If he now tries to go for the simple solution, his name might well be known, and looked upon as a problem case. That might make a simple solution turn into something way more complex.

Whatever, hope this works for you OP.

[Comehome]

Thank you for your concern TerryLH.

Well....a roundtrip to Sweden and back IS certainly an option, you are right about that Mr/Ms TerryLH.

It will cost rather much though.

THAT IS WHY i ask for more help and options regarding this matter.

I just thought it would be easier for me to solve this issue while being in Thailand rather than in Sweden but i guess thai democracy beats me there.

THAT is also why i ask for more help with this.

Understand me better now?

And by the way...I am a lady, a she and not a "he".

Thank you.

/comehome

[Arkady]

I think the general advice given here by Mario and others is probably correct that getting a new Thai passport should be easier from a consulate abroad using your birth certificate and expired passport because consulates don't require ID card or tabian baan. But that requires you to be back in Sweden and you will need an ID card and tabian baan, if you plan to stay in Thailand. For these Ubonjoe's advice is sound and is the best place to start since you are here. Go the district office where your friend lives who has a house and is willing to register you on their tabian baan. Tell the staff that you are Thai and have come back to live in Thailand after being adopted and growing up abroad but you never got an ID card because you were living overseas. Show them all your documents but don't tell them you suspect the people on your birth certificate are not your parents. Just say you have never met them and have been unable to contact them, if they ask. Take a respectable older Thai person with you who is good at dealing with government officials (not a lawyer) and not willing to be fobbed off. As Ubonjoe says they deal with a lot of cases of people who have never had ID cards or have let them lapse, so your case is not entirely unusual. Some district offices are corrupt and may ask for money. Having an experienced Thai friend will help in dealing with this issue, if it comes up. If this doesn't work, you still have the option to try to get a passport abroad and you could stay in Thailand indefinitely with this but probably not work and certainly buy land, vote or claim free healthcare for what that's worth without an ID card. You can also try another district office, if you have another friend with a house in another district. They seem to have a lot of autonomy and often have their own interpretations of the law and government policy. The passport office in Laksi is part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and is quite efficient and not known to be corrupt at all. The official there was not asking you for a bribe. She was just telling you the truth as Laksi, unlike Thai consulates abroad, has little or no leeway to issue passports without an ID card and tabian baan because there is no reasonable explaination why a Thai living in Thailand doesn't have them.

If it doesn't work at the district office, you will have to prove who your real parents were through DNA testing and may need to go through Special Branch which handles nationality applications at Police HQ in Bangkok. The Siamamerican explained how he did this in another thread but he had no problem in contacting cooperative blood relatives in Thailand.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Arkady

[Comehome]

Thanks a lot Taonow for you constructive thinking regarding my case.

Will look into my economy and check up flightprices for a roundtrip to Sweden.

Arkady:

I went to the district office last month with my best friend to sign me in to her house papers but they said i must go to Laksi district office in Bkk to be re-entered first.

I have a printed page from Teesabaan (excuse my spelling), saying i am born by thai mother and thai father and there is also an ID-number that i was given at birth.

They printed this out for me when i showed them my birth certificate.

I have from what i understand an elder birth certificate and have no ID-number inprinted on it.

The new ones (after 1978 or 1979), has the persons ID-number inprinted on them directly.

There were a lot of false adoptions during the years of 1976-77 in Thailand and i am sure i am not the only one struggeling for my true nationality.

However, i have never heard of anyone succeeding in a case like this.

Thank you for all the help, i really appreciate it.

It might be easy to act by the facts i agree on that but to really look for your family and over and over again be reminded that you might never ever find them is really not that easy.

I take one step at the time, the emotional part might seem silly to some of you, but we are different and to me it is a huge part of life.

Sometimes it is not so easy to just accept facts and let go. Guess this is my "western heart" feeling too much, instead of forgetting and just move on like many others would do here.

This is also the reason i left Sweden. I came to Thailand to find my family, not for the beach or the bars, simply to come home.

Take care now!

Sincerely

/comehome

[tommybkk]

With a Thai birthcertificate and an expired Thai passport, it should be possible to get back your Thai nationality!

[Arkady]

I think I had misunderstood that you had been to the passport office in Laksi to be re-entered based on your expired passport, not the District Office. So presumably Laksi was the place you were entered on a tabian baan before. Since it is a district office, you may have been right that some tea money was needed there. If so, this might be worth investigating with some one who knows how to do these things, as it could possibly be negotiated down to a reasonable level. Otherwise, going to Sweden to get the confirmation from the Thai embassy may do the trick. Special Branch at Police HQ can help with these things but they would definitely ask for DNA tests, so is not practical for your case. I would go back to Laksi with a friend and ask to find out: 1) if you come back with a document from Sweden will they definitely re-enter you and, if so, exactly what document would they need? 2) is there any way they can make a special case and re-enter you anyway to save you the trouble and expense of going back to Sweden for just one piece of paper?

[harrry]

It was my understanding that adoption formally ends all rights of descent. I know in my case I could not get entry to britain as a granchild of a british citizen because my grandmother ( Australian) adopted me on the death of my mother and I hence lost the right I would have had through my grandfather thai law may be different though.

[MJo]

I think I had misunderstood that you had been to the passport office in Laksi to be re-entered based on your expired passport, not the District Office. So presumably Laksi was the place you were entered on a tabian baan before. Since it is a district office, you may have been right that some tea money was needed there. If so, this might be worth investigating with some one who knows how to do these things, as it could possibly be negotiated down to a reasonable level. Otherwise, going to Sweden to get the confirmation from the Thai embassy may do the trick. Special Branch at Police HQ can help with these things but they would definitely ask for DNA tests, so is not practical for your case. I would go back to Laksi with a friend and ask to find out: 1) if you come back with a document from Sweden will they definitely re-enter you and, if so, exactly what document would they need? 2) is there any way they can make a special case and re-enter you anyway to save you the trouble and expense of going back to Sweden for just one piece of paper?

Exactly my thoughts.

You also mention in first post that your expired Thai passport has your fingerprint as signature. Maybe you could get them to dig up the records for the expired passport to prove they have issued it in first place and then it's easy to prove that your fingerprint is in the original passport.

Dunno, maybe worth trying. Any case i hope it all works out for you.

[samran]

Easiest option I think is to go back to Sweden.

My sister, an Australian citizen, living in London, got her Thai passport back in December 2008 from the embassy there. She hadn't lived in Thailand since 1981.

She had her old Thai passport, and a photocopy of her Tabieen Baan (albeit current) since she had no ID. She also had her birth certificate.

In combination with your Swedish passport, which proves your current identity, it should be very possible to get the Thai passport there.

Once obtained, you can return to Thailand on your Thai passport, and go to ANY ampur where the house owner is willing to take you on and you can go on the house register and get your ID card.

I dare say much simpler - and probably cheaper when you think about it.

The requirements are much simpler at embassies. You only need to prove that you are a Thai citizen to issue you a passport. Your birth certificate and previous Thai passport already prove this.

Edited March 20, 2009 by samran

[Jimjim]

It was my understanding that adoption formally ends all rights of descent. I know in my case I could not get entry to britain as a granchild of a british citizen because my grandmother ( Australian) adopted me on the death of my mother and I hence lost the right I would have had through my grandfather thai law may be different though.

Yes, but it doesn't necessarily apply as she's talking about Thai citizenship, not British. Different countries have different rules.

[Arkady]

It was my understanding that adoption formally ends all rights of descent. I know in my case I could not get entry to britain as a granchild of a british citizen because my grandmother ( Australian) adopted me on the death of my mother and I hence lost the right I would have had through my grandfather thai law may be different though.

Yes, but it doesn't necessarily apply as she's talking about Thai citizenship, not British. Different countries have different rules.

Exactly. Thais who are adopted by foreigners and taken to live abroad do not lose any of the rights (including Thai citizenship) they are entitled to through their biological parents, even though the biological parents give up their parental rights in respect of the children they have given for adoption. This is in the Thai Civil and Commercial Code.

[Comehome]

Hi all!

Thank you so much for all your help and thoughts.

This is more response and help that i could ever dream of to get on a forum!

The problem is still to proove i am the person on the paper, since i have no relatives to guarantee for me.

I will go to Bangkok tomorrow to meet with a lady in the district office again.

This time i have an old friend with me from the thai embassy in Stockholm. He knows me and my history well.

He also knows the stories about how children were stolen and adopted away with false papers.

I have supportive documents for all my name-changes in english so i only hope they will accept them.

You see, there is one surname in my birth ceritificate and one in my ai thpassport.

For some reason they put the adoptive parents surname in my thai passport.

Then...here is the real issue...

My adoptive parents were going to have another baby originally but she got sick and had to be sent to the hospital. No-one knows what happend to her after that.

So they got me instead. Therefor is the name in my thai passport not the same as my actual adoptive parents. It is the same of the sweidsh couple i was originally going to be adopted by.

Are you with me?

A bit confusing, i know even to me.

So i have fully supportive documents for all the times they changed my surname, but this seems to be very confusing to the thai authoriries. And to me too to be honest.

How could they just treat young innocent infants like some sort of items who could one day be given to one couple and the next day to another.

After that i changed surname again when i got married.

Normal procedure to me but obviously the authorities feel suspicious about that too.

This is what i will discuss tomorrow with the lady in the district office.

If this do not work out, i will go abroad and apply for a new passport.

Sometimes i just want to lay down and give it all up. Just forget everything and pretend it never happened.

But what if my daughter wants to find out one day where her mother is coming from. Then it will all come back on me again.

So, I will not give up on this. Even if i never find out the whole truth about this but i can not give up hope.

I do not feel that i shall be punished for the rest of my life for something that was beyond my control and knowing. I have struggled in my own way to be where i am today. I know i can not change anything that has already happened, and no matter what i do, it will never be undone. All i actually CAN do is to try and understand and accept the situation as it is now, and do try to do the best of it here and now. Have to think about my own little family and do the best i can for them.

Wish me luck, i think i will need it.

Best,

comehome

[astral]

This time i have an old friend with me from the thai embassy in Stockholm. He knows me and my history well.

I hope that works.

Otherwise take Samran's advice and apply in Stockholm.

Good luck.

[mahtin]

Never surrender!

Let us know too

[Comehome]

Hi guys!

Just wish to thank you once again for all your support.

Some things have happened since i wrote here the last time.

I have been to Bkk and i did find my mother, at least the woman who signed as my mother on my birth certificate.

She told me she had not given birth to me but she loves me as her own daugther.

She also followed me to Laksi district office to witness for me. In the car on the way over there she asked me if i wanted her to lie, (to say she did give birth to me), or tell the truth. (that she only signed my papers.)

Stupid as i was..or perhaps naive, i thought the truth was the right thing to do, so i asked her to tell the truth and when she did the Laksi government officer just said my papers are false and they can not help me anymore.

"My mother" also said her neighbour gave me to her. I asked about the neighbour but she could not remember.

She also made up stories about how long i had lived with her before she gave me up for adoption. These are facts that just can not be true.

Any parent would know that there is a difference in a newborn babys weight and a 3 months old baby.

I asked her to tell me the truth but she insisted she was already telling me the truth, but i know she doesn't.

She said she can not tell me the truth because it would only hurt me.

She wants me to forget about my true past and live on as if she was my real mother.

I just can not do that. Everything in my body says that is the wrong thing to do and i trust in my gut-feeling there.

Now i wonder if there would be possible to take my "mother" with me to another District office (with a little money of course),

and ask her to lie (i know it is bad), and let her say she gave birth to me, instead of going to a thai embassy and apply for a new passport.

Can i go to another office and be put back as a Thai citizen even if i am "written in" in another office?

Thank you for your time and help, it would make a lot of things easier for me and my family.

Take care of yourselves and your loved ones,

/comehome

[CWMcMurray]

Sorry to hear that this still hasn't been sorted out, I still belive that the advise previously given will still be the best.

Go back to Sweden and get your new Passport... and what ever you do , DO NOT expalin the whole story to any govenment official anywhere.. it will not get you any simpathy and will just make them want to find a reason why they can't help you.

You do not need to lie, just keep it simple (the basic facts)

In Sweden:

1. You were adopted

2. Moved to Sweden

3. Changed your names to that of your adoptive parents

4. Changed your last name once married

5. Now you want to get your passport, so you can move back to Thailand

----------------------------------

In Thailand:

1. You were adopted

2. Moved to Sweden

3. Changed your names to that of your adoptive parents

4. Changed your last name once married

5. You renewed your passport in Sweden because you want to come back home to live

6. Your friend offered to put you in her Tabien Baan

You will probably have to go to a different Amphur ... I am sure that every person you spoke with up to this point is terrified of doing something shouldn't and doesn't want to loose face by asking their superiors and to find a solution, so will not want to help.

Much better to make you go away then to make a mistake