Was Adopted And Wish To Have My Thai Nationality Back

[CWMcMurray]

It will simply boil down to this.... the more simple and routine the transaction appears to be the more likely the amphur is to help you. The reverse is also true...

So once you have your passport get a senior Thai person to go with you and help to put you in their Tabien Baan and then once you are in the Tabien Baan then get your ID on the same day.

[wintermute]

The problem is you're doing things the ethical way when you should be lying your ass off to the authorities because that's how it's done in Thailand.

[Comehome]

Thanks guys, that sounds like the only solution at the moment.

Yes i know i was naive to think that the Thai authorities would actually help me, for speaking the truth.

I understand what i must do.

Thanks a lot for your time, appreciate it.

Take care,

comehome

[eggomaniac]

Is there such a thing as making a petition to the Palace? When I found out that my 'mix' daughter, born in Canada, would be given a Thai Birth Certificate, the official explanation was, "the King loves all his children".

Maybe there is a way to get a Royal policy that over rides Civil Immigration!?.

---------------

On the DNA question, regardless of your maternal parents, you can possibly prove you are Thai via the The Genographic Project.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...encerwells.html

Edited October 25, 2009 by eggomaniac

[bkk_mike]

Can't you simply get added to the Tabien Baan, then ask for a replacement Thai ID card. (I know this is possible with just the birth certificate for children as you don't get an ID until 15? - not sure if it's feasible for adults.)

i.e. It's basically what Thai children born outside Thailand sometimes have to do as they don't get issued an ID card automatically, but if they're on a Tabien Baan, they can ask for a replacement once they're old enough on the basis that the original card was "lost".

Your birth certificate should have your ID card number on it. (although not certain of this as I have never seen a Thai BC from the 70s).

But I will agree, you grow up in Europe, you expect to tell the truth to get things sorted out, as telling a lie will cause far bigger problems down the line.

Thailand seems to be the opposite. You tell what is the easiest thing for the person behind the desk to deal with as they generally don't want to do anything outside what they normally deal with.

i.e. Once you're on a Tabien Baan, a lost ID card must be a reasonably regular occurence. And once you have the Thai ID, a Thai passport is straightforward. And once you have the ID, they would need to prove that you were ineligible in a court to take it away. (Instead of you having to prove your right to a Thai nationality. They would have to prove you don't have one...)

[Comehome]

Hey guys!

I am back to tell a new chapter of my story...

I recently went to the Sweden embassy to have a note saying that the embassy witness that I am the person I say I am according to Sweden and Thai government papers and adoption documents.

I had the note made for me, I had it translated and then legalized at the foreign ministry.

Yesterday I went to the Laksi district office and showed my papers again, and after a 2 hour long talk with the lady she still said NO!.

She said that the statement from the Sweden embassy is not evidence enough!

She also spoke with my friend who works in the Thai foreign ministry who helped me explaining things over the phone to this lady. And still she said no.

She wants me to find biological witnesses, mother, father or cousin. That is impossible for me and she knows it!

Every time I go there she makes me tell my story from the beginning and I am so tired of opening up this wound over and over again and never get any help.

She kept asking me why I want to be thai citizen and I told her that I wish to stay and live here.

She does not seem to understand why I want to be here when all other thais rather want to move to europe than staying here.

She also says there one documentside and one biological person-side of these things.

So when I have my documents in order she will still need proof for the biological side, which means I must find relatives.

What if my parents are dead and there are no relatives?

How do they deal with the biological side then?

I have brought the persons on my birth certificate to her once and as you know from previous posts she just yelled that my papers are false.

Yesterday the office lady asked me to bring them there AGAIN!

This lady has also asked me to bring my swedish parents to her office to testify that I am me. She also had me contacting the Thai embassy in Stockholm and ask them to let my parents testify in the embassy but the thai embassy said no.

If Laksi wants this kind of thing the order must go the right way, not through a private person. If this is what they want they must go through the foreign ministry who will forward the specific request to the embassy.

So obviously this lady at the district office is just making things up to make things harder for me.

That is where I am now.

Isn't there any rules for what an district office officer is allowed to do and ask for???

Perhaps the press would be interested in writing about how some sadistic government officers are torturing returning adopted Thais who only want to come back to live and work in Thailand....

[Mario2008]

Sorry to hear you are still having trouble. The best solution might be to go to another district office and try it there. If necesarry move to another district.

There are some documents regarding Thai nationality that you can find here:

There is a lot of information in there, more for hill tribe persons, but I hope some might be of help to you.

http://www.scribd.co...hip-in-Thailand (in English)

http://unesdoc.unesc...1/162153tha.pdf (in Thai)

Good luck!

[Comehome]

Thank you for the link Mario, I have read it and it was very interesting.

I hope I will be granted my citizenship soon.

I have also spoken to the Thai embassy in Sweden and they refuse to let me make a new passport because the last name in my thai passport is not the same as in my thai birth certificate. I was originally going to be adopted by another couple but then there was obviously a change in the plan. My thai passport was made before the lawyer decided to give me to my present swedish parents and that is why there is a different last name in my thai passport.

Am I a victim of human trafficking then?

Would my case qualify within the definitions of human trafficking?

[samran]

the logjam does appear to be a biological witness which is commonly requested when people are applying for ID. As far as I am understanding, they are refusing to put you on the house registry, and issue you with an ID card, is this correct? It doesn't appear they are questioning your nationality, more just that they can't register you on the tabieen baan.

Have you specifically asked them who acceptable altetnatives might be as a witness? At least it will force them to go look at the rules.

If you have running into a brick wall, I suggest you hire a proper law firm, it will be pricy. Names that come to mind include Dej Udom, LS Horizon, Siam Premier.

These guys bring with them connections and the ability to scare the bejeezus out of a run of the mill bureaucrat.

Sorry to hear that you are having problems. I'm sure it will get there!

[Comehome]

Thank you so much Samran, you are correct!

I am currently put in the Tabien Glaang, the register where they put people who have been away from Thailand for a long time.

The now refuse to take me out of Tabien Glaang, and put me into the normal register.

When I was born I was written in to "my aunties", Tabien Baan.

Then they for some reason made a new Tabien Baan and when they made the new one, my name is not there anymore. It looks like i dissapeared.

I have seen the old one with my name, and the new one without my name in it.

This is how they got away with making false birth certificates and selling children through private illegal adoptions during 1976-79.

1979 the new law came and government had to clean things up and make proper laws for adoptions from Thailand. Then Thailand was closed for adoption for several years.

Once again, I am not here to punish or to bring anyone down for what they did so many years ago. I have no wish for revenge or suffering of others.

All i want is to have my thai citizenship back and if possible find my thai family.

When I have finisihed my studies I want to be able to work without the workpermit-issue hanging over me.

I want to have a closure with this and move on with my life. I have a 3 yearold girl who does not want her mommy to be sad over things she not yet understand. I just want a normal life for me and my family here.

[gijoe]

Hi everyone,

I was also adopted from Thailand in 1976. My adopted mother have always said to me that my papers are not 100% correct. But I have always heard that a Thai national never looses his/hers Thai citizenship, without renouncing it yourself. So, when my wife and I started thinking about adopting a child of our own, I started thinking about renewing my Thai passport since we would like to adopt a child from Thailand and maybe someday get a vacation home or something there. I live in Norway, and the Thai Embassy is in Oslo, but it was very very hard to get in contact with the embassy. I have tried for several years, but no answers to my e-mails. But to make a long story short, we adopted a girl from Thailand in 2008, and then it was not difficult to come in contact with the embassy. When it came to send in papers to the Thai Embassy in Oslo, I also included the papers I have from my adoption. When I called them, they said I was out of time. When I was at the embassy, they said they did not have the time to talk to me about my Thai nationality, "No more time!". The information you now get regarding adoption and Thai nationality from the adoption organizations is that the adopted person must come to the Thai Embassy when he/she turns 20 years old, to either renew the Thai passport or to renounce the Thai nationality.

BUT, I have heard about other people adopted from Thailand to other countries, that have just come to their Thai Embassy and gotten their Thai passport renewed even when they have passed 30 years of age. I have e-mailed the Thai Embassy in South-Africa, and the Consular Officer has said that they renew Thai passports even when the person is over 30 years old.

Any clues to how to get a Thai passport?

[moe666]

Hi everyone,

I was also adopted from Thailand in 1976. My adopted mother have always said to me that my papers are not 100% correct. But I have always heard that a Thai national never looses his/hers Thai citizenship, without renouncing it yourself. So, when my wife and I started thinking about adopting a child of our own, I started thinking about renewing my Thai passport since we would like to adopt a child from Thailand and maybe someday get a vacation home or something there. I live in Norway, and the Thai Embassy is in Oslo, but it was very very hard to get in contact with the embassy. I have tried for several years, but no answers to my e-mails. But to make a long story short, we adopted a girl from Thailand in 2008, and then it was not difficult to come in contact with the embassy. When it came to send in papers to the Thai Embassy in Oslo, I also included the papers I have from my adoption. When I called them, they said I was out of time. When I was at the embassy, they said they did not have the time to talk to me about my Thai nationality, "No more time!". The information you now get regarding adoption and Thai nationality from the adoption organizations is that the adopted person must come to the Thai Embassy when he/she turns 20 years old, to either renew the Thai passport or to renounce the Thai nationality.

BUT, I have heard about other people adopted from Thailand to other countries, that have just come to their Thai Embassy and gotten their Thai passport renewed even when they have passed 30 years of age. I have e-mailed the Thai Embassy in South-Africa, and the Consular Officer has said that they renew Thai passports even when the person is over 30 years old.

Any clues to how to get a Thai passport?

Read this thread and donot complicate your story. apply for a passport in the country you live in now with old passport and birth cerificate

[lopburi3]

The age 20 rule has nothing to do with keeping Thai nationality but if you want to not be Thai that is the time you are expected to declare it. Under current laws there is no loss of Thai nationality. But in 1976 there may have been a requirement to do so and have no idea if Norway may require. That you know your paperwork is false it may also have extreme consequences as you can read on another thread with a young lady trying to prove her nationality. Hopefully those with knowledge will see this thread and provide better information.

You may want to read this thread and others from same poster.

Edited July 28, 2010 by lopburi3
add link

[gijoe]

Read this thread and donot complicate your story. apply for a passport in the country you live in now with old passport and birth cerificate

Well, I have read this post many times over and over again, but the Thai Embassy in Oslo still says "NO!". They do not give me any good reason, only that I am too late and they do not have the time to help me.

I will try to call them again this week, and see how things work out. I live about 6 hours away from Oslo, but I will try to get to the embassy next time I am in Oslo.

[Mario2008]

Ask them to put the refusal in writing, so you can make a complaint to the foreign ministry.

Contact the consular department of the foreign ministry about your problem, with a copy of the emails to the embassy in Bangkok.

[tombkk]

I read this whole thread, but maybe I am missing an important point.

1. Comehome has a Thai birth certificate with a family name.

2. She has a Thai passport with another family name.

My question: Is there a document for the change of name? I would think there is, as otherwise how could this passport have been issued.

3. She cannot prove that she is the person in the documents. She is considering DNA tests.

My question: The passport should have a picture. If that is not clear enough, the passport also shows a fingerprint, as we hear. Now, a fingerprint is unique to a person and should suffice for positive ID.

4. The Thai authorities don't recognise her as Thai.

My question: Some authority will have issued the passport (which has now expired). That same authority (which I believe from context could have been the Thai embassy in Sweden) should be contacted. They had proof of her Thai nationality then, and if for some reason they don't have the old documents anymore, the passport issued by them at the time should suffice. Even if they don't believe witnesses and affidavids, they should believe themselves.

As I said, I may be missing something. But I hope she gets what she desires: Official recognition as a Thai citizen.

By the way, I am quite shocked to hear that Thai babies were adopted in such a fashion (sounds like "sold") in the seventies. I never knew that.

[samran]

Read this thread and donot complicate your story. apply for a passport in the country you live in now with old passport and birth cerificate

Well, I have read this post many times over and over again, but the Thai Embassy in Oslo still says "NO!". They do not give me any good reason, only that I am too late and they do not have the time to help me.

I will try to call them again this week, and see how things work out. I live about 6 hours away from Oslo, but I will try to get to the embassy next time I am in Oslo.

Can you tell us what Thai documentation you do have? Do you have a Thai birth certificate? Do you have an old Thai passport?

I wouldn't complicate matters...ie don't tell them you are adopted etc. Just tell them you were born in Thailand, moved to Norway when you were a child and would like to get a Thai passport to go back to Thailand. See how that goes.

[lopburi3]

As has been said there were false documents used so names/documents can not be relied on and those involved will 'not remember' to protect others. Only when the 'others' have gone will the pieces normally start to fall into place. I expect results would require both funding and lawyers before that time.

[samran]

double post..

Edited July 29, 2010 by samran

[gijoe]

Can you tell us what Thai documentation you do have? Do you have a Thai birth certificate? Do you have an old Thai passport?

I wouldn't complicate matters...ie don't tell them you are adopted etc. Just tell them you were born in Thailand, moved to Norway when you were a child and would like to get a Thai passport to go back to Thailand. See how that goes.

Well, I have a old Thai passport and a birth certificate. I also have documents where "my legal guardians" gives me up for adoption. But again, these documents may or may not be correct.

The Royal Thai Embassy in London, states that I only need the Thai passport and a birth certificate to get a new passport. I have also e-mailed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Thailand, and they state that a Thai national never looses his/hers Thai nationality unless they renounce it themself. Another country may not automatically renounce a Thai nationality.

So, armed with this new information I will have to talk to the Thai Embassy in Oslo, Norway, again. After I renew my passport, I will have to apply for a Thai ID card, if I can get one.

[samran]

I'd just take the Thai BC and old passport to the embassy and try and apply with that. Don't tell them you were adopted as that would only confuse matters for them. See how you go.

[Comehome]

GIjoe:

Hi!

It is a sad situation we are in, isn't it?

IF your name is the same in your birthcertificate and your thai passport, it shouldn't be any problem.

I have heard that the Thai embassy in Amsterdam (not 100%sure) and the Thai embassy in Sydney are specialized in adoptees wanting new thai passports, as long as your papers are correct.

In my case they can't help me.

I suggest you contact the Child adoption centre in Bkk. I guess you already know them since you have adopted a thai girl already.

That is where I started and I had a lot of help from their former chief, who now is retired.

Tombkk:

Thanks a lot for your thoughts and your time.

The only document I have of the explanation of the name changes is one that the lawyer made for my swedish father so that he

would be able to take me through the thai customs.

The document say that my swedish father has 100% allowanace by the other swedish

couple, to take me to Sweden on their behalf.

When we came to Sweden, they authorities sorted the rest out with documents of the

Swedish court saying that I will take my swedish parents name.

Regarding the fingerprint:

Yes you are right, the thai passport has a small fingerprint of my left thumb. It is very black and

not very clear, but perhaps there is a chance of proof there.

Very good suggestion, thank you!

More about the thai passport:

The thai passport is issued by the Thai ministry of foreign affairs and according to my

friend who works there now, they did not have any databases or register at that time, as they have now.

I have also been thinking about this and I understand that the person issuing these passports have made a lot

of money on them. The person who signed it should not be too hard to find, although I am afraid this might be

dangerous for me and my family. This person might go to jail for issuing several passports on false grounds.

All the thai passports I have seen from children who came to Sweden by that lawyer, has passports written with the EXAKT same handwriting and the

exact same black ink pencil. Scary, isn't it!

Reg. Ministry of foreign affairs:

You are right again, my thai friend at the minstry of foreign affairs said that there is no doubt

according to my documents and my supplemental documents from the Sweden embassy that I have thai

nationality. The sad thing is that the district office lady still doubts me and she even doubt

The Sweden Embassy and her own government by refusing the documents I have translated and legalized in Thailand.

As I sat at the district office talking and explaining things to the district office lady again, we both realized something.

There is no SIGNATURE anywhere in my adoption documents by the lawyer who handled the adoption. There are several stamps everywhere but no handwritten signature anywhere except for ONE place but the name is writtten in western letters and not in thai letters.

The distric office lady said she can't see how his name should be pronounced and that makes it hard for her to try to contact him.

Could this be some sort of legal loop-hole so that he can say "I never signed anything" if anyone ever question him.

I am not sure if I ever mentioned this, but I have figured out how they got us registred in the first place.

When I was born i was written into a house paper.

Later they made a new housepaper and my name is not written in there and that is why I was put in the Tabien Glaang, the register for people who have left Thailand.

It looks like I dissapeared and I could just have died without anyone ever knowing or noticing that I ever existed.

If they are allowed to put me in Tabien Glaang based on the facts they and I have, shouldn't they be able to put me back on the same grounds???

Talk about LOOP-HOLE for human trafficking!!!!

This is so, excuse my language, F-KING scary!! This just has GOT TO STOP NOW!!!

Shit.......can't hold my tears back anymore.

Human lives are not worth anything here! Not back then and not now!

I am sure these things still happen and the government can't stop it!

[Comehome]

I forgot to ask..

Where can I have a fingerprint analyzed in Bangkok and how much would it cost?

I am willing to do this, to give that district office lady proof beyond all reasonable doubts.

I get the feeling she is trying to stall things for me for some reason and I can't imagine why.

I have been studying until recently and I am about to start looking for work now. It would be really good for me to have my thai citizenship and thai Id card to avoid the problems with workpermit in Thailand.

I do have my 13 digit thai Id-number, but am I allowed to use it unless I have a Thai ID-card?

Thanks for all support, forgot to thank you all, got a bit emotional in my prev. post. So sorry.

Take care now and stay safe,

Best,

Comehome

[Mario2008]

Never give up. Have you thought about contacting the Pavanee foundation?

http://www.pavenafoundation.or.th/

[Mario2008]

Regarding the finger print I suggest you contact the Royal Thai Police headquarters.

[gijoe]

Comehome: It is only my first name that is the same in my passport and on my birth certificate. In my Thai passport I have my Thai first name and my Norwegian last name. I have a document stating the name change of my name to my full Norwegian name, but that is in Norwegian.

How can I locate the people who signed my birth certificate? I can not find any good phone books in Thailand. What I know is that my birth certificate states I was born in Tambon Na Charoen, Det Udom District, Ubon Ratchathani Province, and village nr 7 (104-7). I know the name of the Chief of Tambon. There is also a number on my birth certificate: 279/19. I do not know what that means, but it is located on the top righ corner of the document.

We did not have any contact with the Child adoption centre in Bkk. What kind of center is that?

[Comehome]

No, I will never give up, I promise.

Thank you for the link, do they speak english if I phone them?

Why isn't anyone promoting this organization??? I didn't even know they existed.

Mario, may I ask something personal?

If not, stop read now.

Are you a lawyer?

/comehome

[Mario2008]

No, I will never give up, I promise.

Thank you for the link, do they speak english if I phone them?

Why isn't anyone promoting this organization??? I didn't even know they existed.

Mario, may I ask something personal?

If not, stop read now.

Are you a lawyer?

/comehome

Almost right. I worked as a social worker for juveniles.

Yes, some there also do speak English, some members have contacted them about problems. But Thai would be much easier.

Take care.

[lopburi3]

Comehome: It is only my first name that is the same in my passport and on my birth certificate. In my Thai passport I have my Thai first name and my Norwegian last name. I have a document stating the name change of my name to my full Norwegian name, but that is in Norwegian.

How can I locate the people who signed my birth certificate? I can not find any good phone books in Thailand. What I know is that my birth certificate states I was born in Tambon Na Charoen, Det Udom District, Ubon Ratchathani Province, and village nr 7 (104-7). I know the name of the Chief of Tambon. There is also a number on my birth certificate: 279/19. I do not know what that means, but it is located on the top righ corner of the document.

We did not have any contact with the Child adoption centre in Bkk. What kind of center is that?

Were you born in 2519 (34 years ago)? That is normally the last two digits on such a number and the first three would be the registered birth number in the area served I would suspect. Presenting evidence to a real lawyer should get answers/action as officials know answers need to be found then.

[gijoe]

Were you born in 2519 (34 years ago)? That is normally the last two digits on such a number and the first three would be the registered birth number in the area served I would suspect. Presenting evidence to a real lawyer should get answers/action as officials know answers need to be found then.

Yes, that is the correct (2519) year. It also says Month 8 and Year of the Serpant, and Waxing moon.

My mother came to Ubon Ratchathani to get me. And the person responsible for "getting me", picked me up about 1-1,5 hour drive with a motorcycle outside Ubon. The birth certificate states Tambon Na Charon, 104 Village no.7