Living In A Mooban Developement..

[lukamar]

My wife expressed concern for my safety recently when we move back to Thailand (Chiang Mai) for good. She thinks we should buy a house in a gated community rather than just land and house. We do not come off as looking like we have much (because we don't...LOL) and I've never felt threatened in Thailand.

Does anyone have any feedback on this type of living? Do you actually ever use any of the facilities that they offer or do they wear off fast? And is it actually any safer????

Any feedback would be appreciated..

[pedro01]

Why risk it ? Go gated, especially if it keeps the wife happy....

If you travel a lot, it makes double-sense to go gated.

[lopburi3]

Mooban is just a village. It may or may not be gated and may or may not have any facilities. Mine was gated when opened in 1974 but theft was as bad then as it is now and probably worse. The gate does help with snatch type robbery but not much for planned house entries (where guards often conspire).

That said; as a foreigner your home is likely to be a prime target if not in a development and there is no 911 response here so I would make the wife happy and move where she feels safe. Having (occupied) houses around you will help. As will a good dog.

[ProThaiExpat]

Your question raises many important issues to newly arriving farang. Not only is security issues involved in a "development" house vs. countryside or city-lot purchase , but construction, privacy, maintenance and expense are important factors.

Security is nominally better, but gate guards are merely decorative and development walls can be easily scaled. However, if your house is modest compared to your neighbors, any "hit" will be to your neighbors. Our middle class, by Thai standards development, hasn't had a "hit" in its five year history, and my farang neighbor is such a far more attractive "target", I rest easy.

Having the developer build your house makes sense as he has a "track record" and there are many examples available of what he builds for what price.

The downside of developments is their lack of privacy, houses built so close together, however, I solved that problem by orienting my house toward a large estate adjoing the development where the main house is not even visible. I built built my house so high up the wall windows only face the street and neighbors, with sliding glass doors looking out on "my estate", maintained by the owner of the estate. I built a "free-standing condo" concept house with the only planting areas being planter boxes under the sliding glass doors. Abundant tree planting and screenining plants also work to provide privacy if you have a yard surroounding your house.

Your monthly maintenance fee will be substantially higher, as will be the cost of your house, if you buy into a development that has common area facilities that must be maintained or not and it is your decision if you want to share such facilities with your neighbors. My guess is most developements, except for extremely high-end expensive developments, can count on the common areas to be a negative after five years, due to the common practice of developers abandoning maintenance aftr all units are sold and common area laws are so poor and unenforced in Thailand.

I count myself lucky that my developer was willing to build a custom, western style house for the same cost per sq. meter as his standard development model. Perhaps it was not luck but profit, as my open floor plan requires far less walls and electrical "points" than the standard. I was lucky in making my lot selection when there were many options available and I was able to build a house that

incorporated most of my dream features.

Developments usually have more infrastructure improvements than countryside houses and so my advice is to go development, if you can customize the product to meet your needs.

[thaiflyer1]

I live in a gated village (Pattaya), when i first moved in 3 years ago we had a guard on the gate , rubbish collection, street lighting etc.........however the village i/m in is 90% thai occupied and they simply wont pay for the services, consequently for the last year we have had no guard or refuse collection (we pay for it to be collected privately) .I/m moving to a new village later this month with all facilities. What i/m trying to say is, just because you may have guards etc now thats no guarantee you will in the future so watch where you buy.

[lopburi3]

I  live  in  a  gated  village (Pattaya), when  i  first  moved  in  3  years  ago  we  had  a  guard  on  the  gate , rubbish  collection, street  lighting  etc.........however  the  village  i/m  in  is  90%  thai  occupied  and  they  simply  wont  pay  for  the  services, consequently  for  the  last  year  we  have  had  no  guard  or  refuse  collection  (we  pay  for  it  to  be  collected  privately)  .I/m  moving  to  a  new  village  later  this  month  with  all  facilities. What  i/m  trying  to  say  is, just  because  you  may  have  guards  etc  now  thats  no  guarantee  you  will  in  the  future  so  watch  where  you  buy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very valid point. Do not buy anything, anywhere, anytime on the basis of current "facilities". This is especially true here were very few are willing to pay for what they feel should be free and have very little appreciation of maintenance. And this is one of the great downfalls of condo ownership here also.

[Ajarn]

I've never felt threatened in Thailand

Neither have I...

But, I've lived here a few years and hear at least a couple of 'farang murdered in home' stories every year- in/around Chiang Mai!

Many are likely killed/setup by the wife, but not all. In this society, killing someone (not just farangs) for financial gain isn't in any way very unusual...

I don't think Chiang Mai is dangerous, per se, but, like most of the 'farang murdered' stories, most never knew what hit them...

I think the most important thing is to not feel afraid or get into a 'paranoid' situation. I've created a relatively 'safe' situation for myself by taking some basic security steps at home so that my home doesn't appear to be an easy mark. A dog and a mean-looking housekeeper have kept all the riff-raft at bay, so far. I also have a couple of security cameras quite visible (I can't see our front gate from inside the house when guests ring the bell) and I hope that would also give the impression that the house owner is security consience and not a likely a safe candidate for robbery...

Many Thais are overly paranoid, but there are cetainly plenty of reasons to be cautious here. If it was me, I'd probably listen to the wife and take her concerns with more than a grain of salt. As a Thai, she's likely in a better position to make an more accurate take on most any situation here, I feel.

A gated community is almost pointless without decent guards 24 hours per day. There should be at least one at every entrance, and another cruising on a bicycle constantly. And the guards at the entrance should stop and get the ID for EVERY visitor, not just the Thais...

I live in a muubaan that was gated w/guards when I first moved in, but later, the owner just gave up on that and tore down the guard box and fired the guards. In response, a few houses got together and hired their own 24 hour security guard for their section of the muubaan. Each home pays 200 baht per month... No thefts in their area yet, while other areas in the muubaan have been robbed (always in the daytime)

[astral]

A gated estate is only as good as the guards who man the gate.

Generally they are lazy.

It is not as good as it used to be, but generally Thailand is still a very

safe place to live.

[tuky]

I live in a moobaan, we paid 200k initially for the public spaces (swimming pool, gym etc) and 150 baht per month for up keep.

May I point out that there were several households that used a particulr scurity company to install their alarm systems. A week later all those houses were robbed. Turned out to be the security people. Be careful. The moobaan now has stickers for your car, if you do not have a sticker you have to leave your id card at the gate and get a visitors pass.

But moobann life is very good, we have 150 dtalang wah of land and 91 dtalang wah of living space in our house, we are comfy enough.

lukamar, I recommend a moobaan.

Safety, however is the same as everywhere else. My nephew came home the other day with his mate (6ft +) and he was waving his hand gun around. I sh1t myself as I did not know this guy.Since then I have been a little more aware of who enters my house.

[Backpack_thailand]

Living in a Mooban is great!

It's always good to have human interaction and living on an estate has a real community atmosphere. Plenty of parties, events etc. etc. You'll meet a few people who are always good for a favour as well.

Spending 24 hours a day with the "better half" can only cause problems, that's the same all over the world!

Thoroughly recommend it though. Just one word of warning, you will more than likely get a few really nosey people who will be in and out of your house, poking into your rooms, fridge, cupboards...

...STOP IT AT THE EARLIEST POSSIBLE STAGE! Your wife/GF will not confront these nosey buggars but if you do it they will have respect for you believe it or not.

Thais generally can't grasp the concept of "Knock-knock, come in!"

It's your place, keep it that way!

[ZOVOX]

Living in a Mooban is great!

It's always good to have human interaction and living on an estate has a real community atmosphere. Plenty of parties, events etc. etc. You'll meet a few people who are always good for a favour as well.

Spending 24 hours a day with the "better half" can only cause problems, that's the same all over the world!

Thoroughly recommend it though. Just one word of warning, you will more than likely get a few really nosey people who will be in and out of your house, poking into your rooms, fridge, cupboards...

...STOP IT AT THE EARLIEST POSSIBLE STAGE! Your wife/GF will not confront these nosey buggars but if you do it they will have respect for you believe it or not.

Thais generally can't grasp the concept of "Knock-knock, come in!"

It's your place, keep it that way!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Totally agree with you, except for the nosey neighbours: haven't experienced those yet. Having many people about keeps the wife occupied with all the gossiping, which leaves me time to do my thing.

Also, my mooban has swimming pool and gym. At first, i used it all the time, but now i just use it once a week - it's great for the kids !!

[lukamar]

Thanks for all the great input. My wife and I both read the comments and wil take them all into account when we start to look a bit more seriously. I think we will definatly go the MooBan route.

.

Thais generally can't grasp the concept of "Knock-knock, come in!"

It's your place, keep it that way!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At my wife's house in Phayao, her parents live in it, it's an open door policy and it took me a bit to get used to it. The first time that I went there The house was full of people ( to see the farange I think). There were people that no one knew at the wedding and actually it was quite nice. The Pol. Sgt lives a few houses away and he was a great guy, waved us through the roadblock when i was not wearing a helmet a few days later. When we took the family out for dinner the only person that was not brother ,sister , ma Pa was one cousin. I think that is a northern custom and I think that as long as the front door is open everyone is welcome to visit.

[udon]

Wait till those nosey buggers start helping themselves to your food in the fridge and borrowing items without asking.

Nip it in the bud immediately.

Enjoy yourself and good luck.

[Ajarn]

Even in Thailand, it would be considered quite rude to go through drawers in someone else's house. It's never happened to me or anyone else I know.

Coming in the house unanounced, yes. Searching the house, no.

[astral]

Wait till those nosey buggers start helping themselves to your food in the fridge and borrowing items without asking.

Nip it in the bud immediately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I endorse this view point!!!

[nogutsnoapplepie]

http://home.hetnet.nl/~khunrob/paradise/index.htm

Looks Good.

[lopburi3]

Wait till those nosey buggers start helping themselves to your food in the fridge and borrowing items without asking.

Nip it in the bud immediately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I endorse this view point!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not see it that way and in 30 years have never experienced any such actions. If you have something, like a tall ladder, people will ask to use it but have never had a problem getting things back and they are more than willing to extend the same curtesy. Moobhan living is all about sharing (larger-extended family) and if you do not accept this I fear life will not be too great for the Thai party and you should probably not live in a group environment. If people become too familiar the Thai party can be very subtle and get the word out that you do not appreciate intrusions to your private zone.

My point being that you should be very careful to consult with your Thai half or they may end up being shut out of normal relationships trying to please you.

[RamdomChances]

I've never come across Thais, helping themselves to food from the fridge or going through stuff. I would be considered very unpolite. Ours is a small village, not a development and every one knows each other, most are related.

About half of our living space is outside, and you have to come up stairs, we dont even usually get anyone coming upstairs, they would usually wait down stairs and call one of us before coming up. I've been to loads of other peoples houses but rarely inside, as the inside is usually only used for sleeping.

If you cut yourself off to much you can become very isolated.

[think_too_mut]

Last year I inspected one gated estate, about 10km before Pattaya, can't remember the name.

It had a large green area, it's own large pond, a separate communal hall for parties...

However, there were about 50 people working on the lawns and internal roads plus security guard.

What happens when the developer leaves (they said 3 years from then), who is going to maintain such a demanding landscape and the pond? They said 2K baht per month per house will do it all but I doubt decay will wait too long before engulfing it.

[Ijustwannateach]

Agree with both sides about the "open house" arrangements- it's a delicate balance. While our Thai partners may understand that we don't act the same way with our property that Thais do, they can't really communicate this with THEIR friends- who will assume that the 'your home is my home' arrangement common in many villages continues in YOUR home because of their friendship with your partner...

Have had friends who were surprised to discover that their partners' friends had !keys! to their homes....

"Steven"

[RDN]

....They said 2K baht per month per house will do it all but I doubt decay will wait too long before engulfing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the reminder - just called my local grass cutter to come on Friday. 300 baht to cut, trim, prune, and take all the rubbish away.

Now, if I could just find someone to fill in the pot-holes in the road.....

[turbo]

You might check out my house and surroundings here at expat builders' guide and stories . We've lived in a number of places in Thailand, never in a gated community. The only trouble I've ever had is in this development there were some teenagers who were trying to get into the house next door at 2 AM while the neighbors were still in the house. They were at it for an hour and then the neighbors got up and shooed them away. We basically have a pretty good idea which group it is...

This house is in a moo baan kind of off by itself in a country setting. Now everyone looks out for each other, and we got a dog.

The way I look at it is this: the most dangerous place here in Thailand is probably safer than the safest place back in the states. A gated community isn't necessary if you have a proper permiter wall and a dog. That being said, crime is definitely on the rise in places like Pattaya.

One other note; Thai wife's tend to be very sensitive to crime because up country there is so little. We moved here from a low crime area and the wife was real concerned about crime. We were listing to the Pattaya radio news and there was a story about someone stealing a motorcycle. She said 'see what I mean there'. I thought 'thank god we don't live in Los Angeles'.

[Backpack_thailand]

Wait till those nosey buggers start helping themselves to your food in the fridge and borrowing items without asking.

Nip it in the bud immediately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I endorse this view point!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not see it that way and in 30 years have never experienced any such actions. If you have something, like a tall ladder, people will ask to use it but have never had a problem getting things back and they are more than willing to extend the same curtesy. Moobhan living is all about sharing (larger-extended family) and if you do not accept this I fear life will not be too great for the Thai party and you should probably not live in a group environment. If people become too familiar the Thai party can be very subtle and get the word out that you do not appreciate intrusions to your private zone.

My point being that you should be very careful to consult with your Thai half or they may end up being shut out of normal relationships trying to please you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree 100% percent. I have lived in a few Moobans and this did only happen to me once but I have heard of a few foreigners experiencing this.

There is a HUGE difference between being friendly, living as a community which I love - and the flip side of being shown no repect and treated as some kind of circus freak.

Your point about "getting the word out" via wife/GF I cannot agree with. No way in the world will a Thai think about confronting another Thai about their behaviour.

Loss of face, fear of confrontation etc. etc.

[fourbaht]

You might check out my house and surroundings here at expat builders' guide and stories .

Nice idea but you must have too much free time..

[moziman]

In my experience and from the falang moobahns I have visited there is nothing but problems, too many people sitting around with nothing better to do than gossip and stir up ill feeling, my advice avoid like the plague, much better to visit than live, plus as stated the services always break down, eventually everyone leaves and the place disitingrates becoming unsellable.

I used to run a realestate and I have seen many reduced to overgrown rubble. Best advice is to buy a run down house with a good size land plot and do it up, cheap as chips, fast, and great value for money and plenty of spare cash to sort out good security. You can always visit the falang villages to socialise rather than have it in your face 24 hour. Check the court repossesions for the best deals, if you use a lawer at all they usually have access to house details held in the courts, the prices can be unreal.

PS. A dog is the best deterent for the crims and ###### good company to boot.

[lopburi3]

Your point about "getting the word out" via wife/GF I cannot agree with. No way in the world will a Thai think about confronting another Thai about their behaviour.

Loss of face, fear of confrontation etc. etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I used the word subtle for reason. Of course you do not use confrontation. But there are other methods.

One was slow returning electric drill several times so wife keeps an old one with dull bits for their use when asked - don't get asked anymore. Thai are very expert at this type of thing - just give them a chance.

[tuky]

My point being that you should be very careful to consult with your Thai half or they may end up being shut out of normal relationships trying to please you.

How very true. I have been in discussions with my wife about where are social boundaries are. She also feels the need for some privacy, but explained to me that if she does not make our place available no one will come at all, in her book that is a worse fate that being over run.

We eventually came to an agreement, I am building a very nice outdoor entertainment area where non family guests are most welcome, family are allowed inside, but upstairs is my domain and mine only.

Of course we will be subtle about these rules, but her family and friends understand the most important one, UPSTAIRS IS WHERE THE FARANG LIVES!!!

it is where I keep my "farang fridge", my pc, my spa etc...

[Ajarn]

Your point about "getting the word out" via wife/GF I cannot agree with. No way in the world will a Thai think about confronting another Thai about their behaviour.

Never say never in Thailand. Over the years. I've witnessed a number of very loud and public confrontations over someone elses behaviour. Normally, they complain (gossip) to others about another person's behavior, but not always

[Darknight]

Of course we will be subtle about these rules, but her family and friends understand the most important one, UPSTAIRS IS WHERE THE FARANG LIVES!!!

it is where I keep my "farang fridge", my pc, my spa etc...

Very true tuky, they will also easely accept that " the farang things" need to be left alone. but your wife has to tell them first plitely and they will never try to break those rules.

I lived with an ex once in an village in sakhonakhon were everything was shared, everybody came to look at the strange farang. I told my girlfriend then that they could take a part of the shopping but they couldn't touch my bottles of coke i bought. They were in the fridge for three weeks and nobody dared to touch them , even if i offered a glass they politely declined.

[ZOVOX]

I told my girlfriend then that they could take a part of the shopping but they couldn't touch my bottles of coke i bought. They were in the fridge for three weeks and nobody dared to touch them , even if i offered a glass they politely declined.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have the same arrangement with my Pepsi. And ice-cream, and pizza, and crisps and chocolate .........................