Thaksin Begs For "Royal Kindness"

[Koo82]

Hope you are not one of those idiots who believed that he paid IMF from his own pocket.

He was the one who could pay the loan by circulating money in Thailand. Not his pocket money for sure. But he cleared the loan.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Koo82

[Koo82]

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

It's nice to be happy, but 90,000 people is neither a minority or a majority. It's simply the number of people who were bussed into the stadium through whatever incentives and strategies were required for that purpose.

The 90,000 might represent the voice of the poor farmers, or perhaps just their local grandees - those who wield the power and have the real voice in the countryside. It would appear from the Bangkok gubernatorial elections, however, that the 90,000 represent only about 25% of the Bangkok electorate. Do the 90,000 represent a majority of Thai citizens with a secondary or higher education? Does this number represent a majority of Thais who are no longer tolerant of flagrant and gross levels of corruption? Perhaps the 90,000, who presumably believe criminality is an acceptable aspect of populism, reflect those who say they don't care.

We are starting to hear the language of moral equivalence, as we did during the Cold War, when Soviet dictatorship was seen to be morally equivalent to US imperialism. Now we are presented with the UDD as the legitimate equivalent of PAD, but the PAD leaders have not been charged or convicted on any grounds of corruption or theft. The middle-aged and elderly people, women and families that comprise the bulk of daily PAD attendances (from my observation) have not been bussed in in large numbers for a one-off Nuremberg-style rally such as we've seen tonight. The PAD have been invariably right in their analysis, though most agree their "New Politics" needs more discussion. The UDD and their PPP backers seem to have only one agendum, to overturn the law and the constitution in favour of their Leader, a man whose criminality has been established, but whose resources can buy him loyalty in a patronal society.

Well-resourced political leaders throughout the world have always been able to mobilize the numbers. It tells us nothing about minorities or majorities.

The place only holds 70,000 and was reported not full.

90,000 is <deleted>. Best inflated estimate 50k

There were 50,000 red people in the first meeting and PAD's side reported 500!

[bunnaag]

One day he will be back. People power will dictate that.

He was the legally elected P.M that was ousted by a fasist minority gang of thugs.

This is what the ruling elite, that is backed by the army, does when the common people start to get some power in Thailand.

And they have the audacity to call themselves "Peoples alliance for Democracy"

What a joke.

Long live Khun Thaksin

Did you go to school in BULILAM and was your teachers name NEWIN by any chance?

[animatic]

Hope you are not one of those idiots who believed that he paid IMF from his own pocket.

He was the one who could pay the loan by circulating money in Thailand. Not his pocket money for sure. But the cleared the loan.

Yeah right no one ELSE every circulates money around the country...

Only Thaksin? You must be from another economy or planet for sure.

Such foolishness.

[midas]

How can you ask for forgiveness from the very establishment you once talked about dispensing with ?

Quite ridiculous and bizarre

[animatic]

One day he will be back. People power will dictate that.

He was the legally elected P.M that was ousted by a fasist minority gang of thugs.

This is what the ruling elite, that is backed by the army, does when the common people start to get some power in Thailand.

And they have the audacity to call themselves "Peoples alliance for Democracy"

What a joke.

Long live Khun Thaksin

Did you go to school in BULILAM and was your teachers name NEWIN by any chance?

He was ousted so that the control over the check and balances could return to normal hands,

not his since he used them as a weapon against others.

And so that he could be prosecuted for the crimes people knew he had done, but couldn't touch him for

because he used the checks and balances as weapons against ALL dissenters..

Once checks and balances had been partly restored, he was investigated and prosecuted

and in two case there have been judgments. Both against him or his interests.

He is now a criminal on the run in another country.

His crimes have anulled his right to return and become a legally elected dog catcher.

He was ousted because his crimes were well known and had become intolerable.

And because he was looking very instable and paranoid in the last 3-4 months of his premiership..

Fascists get power and keep power.

This junta returned it rather quickly as junta's go historically.

They were as benign a "bunch of thugs and fascists" as ever out on a uniform.

Edited November 2, 2008 by animatic

[webtv]

Hope you are not one of those idiots who believed that he paid IMF from his own pocket.

He was the one who could pay the loan by circulating money in Thailand. Not his pocket money for sure. But he cleared the loan.

I was under the impression that he took a bigger loan to pay the loan... Im nearly positive on that.

[Koo82]

Hope you are not one of those idiots who believed that he paid IMF from his own pocket.

He was the one who could pay the loan by circulating money in Thailand. Not his pocket money for sure. But the cleared the loan.

Yeah right no one ELSE every circulates money around the country...

Only Thaksin? You must be from another economy or planet for sure.

Such foolishness.

He and the people in his cabinet did. Not done by Democrat Party.

[JAG]

....Fascists get power and keep power.

This junta returned it rather quickly as junta's go historically.

They were as benign a "bunch of thugs and fascists" as ever out on a uniform.

There is nothing benign about parking tanks downtown to announce that you have deposed an elected governement.

This Junta handed back power when they thought that they had fixed the system to ensure that their people would win the election. They made a mess of that!

[andyc2006]

How about some reality? Does anyone think the court proceedings that found him guilty were fair and open?

Does anybody think the elections that put him in power were fair and open?

Live by the sword, die by the sword. That's the reality in Thailand, and every other country.

[andyc2006]

Hope you are not one of those idiots who believed that he paid IMF from his own pocket.

He was the one who could pay the loan by circulating money in Thailand. Not his pocket money for sure. But he cleared the loan.

I was under the impression that he took a bigger loan to pay the loan... Im nearly positive on that.

The Thai people don't know that. It was part of the restructuring deal. It's probably not even legal for you to be pointing it out on a website that's readable in Thailand.

[RigPig]

One day he will be back. People power will dictate that.

He was the legally elected P.M that was ousted by a fasist minority gang of thugs.

This is what the ruling elite, that is backed by the army, does when the common people start to get some power in Thailand.

And they have the audacity to call themselves "Peoples alliance for Democracy"

What a joke.

Long live Khun Thaksin

Livinginexile, you weren't in Britain recently were you, give us a hint initials TS (this is only humor)

[coconutmonkey]

Read these again; this one by xangsanhua (or something! Sorry bro-) great post

It's nice to be happy, but 90,000 people is neither a minority or a majority. It's simply the number of people who were bussed into the stadium through whatever incentives and strategies were required for that purpose.

The 90,000 might represent the voice of the poor farmers, or perhaps just their local grandees - those who wield the power and have the real voice in the countryside. It would appear from the Bangkok gubernatorial elections, however, that the 90,000 represent only about 25% of the Bangkok electorate. Do the 90,000 represent a majority of Thai citizens with a secondary or higher education? Does this number represent a majority of Thais who are no longer tolerant of flagrant and gross levels of corruption? Perhaps the 90,000, who presumably believe criminality is an acceptable aspect of populism, reflect those who say they don't care.

We are starting to hear the language of moral equivalence, as we did during the Cold War, when Soviet dictatorship was seen to be morally equivalent to US imperialism. Now we are presented with the UDD as the legitimate equivalent of PAD, but the PAD leaders have not been charged or convicted on any grounds of corruption or theft. The middle-aged and elderly people, women and families that comprise the bulk of daily PAD attendances (from my observation) have not been bussed in in large numbers for a one-off Nuremberg-style rally such as we've seen tonight. The PAD have been invariably right in their analysis, though most agree their "New Politics" needs more discussion. The UDD and their PPP backers seem to have only one agendum, to overturn the law and the constitution in favour of their Leader, a man whose criminality has been established, but whose resources can buy him loyalty in a patronal society.

Well-resourced political leaders throughout the world have always been able to mobilize the numbers. It tells us nothing about minorities or majorities.

This one by animatic (great post)

He was ousted so that the control over the check and balances could return to normal hands,

not his since he used them as a weapon against others.

And so that he could be prosecuted for the crimes people knew he had done, but couldn't touch him for

because he used the checks and balances as weapons against ALL dissenters..

Once checks and balances had been partly restored, he was investigated and prosecuted

and in two case there have been judgments. Both against him or his interests.

He is now a criminal on the run in another country.

His crimes have anulled his right to return and become a legally elected dog catcher.

He was ousted because his crimes were well known and had become intolerable.

And because he was looking very instable and paranoid in the last 3-4 months of his premiership..

Fascists get power and keep power.

This junta returned it rather quickly as junta's go historically.

They were as benign a "bunch of thugs and fascists" as ever out on a uniform.

And a reply to this statement by JAG

There is nothing benign about parking tanks downtown to announce that you have deposed an elected governement.

------- Yes, there is. It was only a symbol to convince the public on 'moral' grounds; making Taksin look like a criminal even more

I agree with both posts in many ways. There is also a rift between the expat pol]population based on these political events. It's not really about politics, its about cheques and balances and media.

Cheers

[Journalist]

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

Is this correct. Is there a protocol to be followed or legal pro forma?

Or are you surmising this is the way you'd expect to see a pardon application being submitted?

[Bangyai]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

Exactly....was it really necessary to give the thread this title.??

I think we should let that lay. We don't want to have to prefix Thaksin with "The vile criminal despot robber barron country selling.." every time we utter his name do we? Nor the PAD supporters prefix Sonthi with "The devine righteous representative on earth of God, Buddha, Allah, Jehova .."

This is a sign of how polaised this debacle has become

True enough, but on another thread Animatic did condescend to call Sondhi ' a snake ' which was very liberal of him and much appreciated

Where can you get the idea that all or most anti-Thaksin people are

a ) pro PAD 100%

b ) Think of Sondhi as some sort of godhead figure.

c ) that any one expects him to head a government if PPP goes,

d ) that there is this unified PAD = all anti-Thaksin grouped together.

Sorry Charlie no sale doesn't exist, just a PPP boggieman to slam at.

It is more likely that many have finally woken up to the danger of Thaksins,

and so are not AGAINST PAD as a consequence, since they are actively

preventing Thaksin from coming back to take revenge.

The man is a dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator,

with a proven vengeful streak, and 76 billion reasons to not care

if people die top let him get his way.

He is not coming back, if he can, to act democratically, but to rule.

Defend him, and you defend the destruction of society in any image, but the one he chooses.

Eeeee oop chuck, sorry....I missed this riposte of yours earlier as I was rushing out for some seafood so I've only just noticed it.

Now lets see ...... from this I gather that :

a) You are not pro Pad 100 %

You don't think Sondhi is a Godhead ( just a means to an end ?? )

c) That you don't think he'll ever lead a govournment ( phew )

d) Er...a bit vague this...that not everyone who hates Thaksin likes PAD ??

Well, I'm glad to hear it !! As for the rest....well

a ) Not everyone who hates the PAD loves Thaksin

A lot of people who don't trust Thaksin trust the PADs ideas even less.

c) Not every anti PAD remark is a pro Thaksin one

d ) Seafood is good for you if you don't have to wait half an hour for it.

As for the dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator with a proven vengeful streak etc etc.......blimey....thats old Sondhi in one !!! GOAAAAAAAALLLL

P.S. My apologies for the smileys ??? I didn't put them there ???

Edited November 2, 2008 by Bangyai

[jitagon]

So Jonathan Head concluded that Thaksin remains the most populart politician. Great news.

Now let it sink for a while - what has it got to do with democracy? The guy's a thief and a convict on the run from the law.

People who support his return are still stuck in the old, traditional Thai feudal system, which our revolutionary Thaigene so abhors.

In those days guilt or innocence where decided not on the basis of actions, proof and evidence, but on the position on social ladder and resources one was able to pull in front of the court, be it wealth or connections.

Despite all the rhetoric from the likes of Thaigene, nothing, absolutely nothing has changed - except Thaksin wants to measure his status on the ladder by the number of folks who adore him.

The guy is guilty of the crime - no amount of votes can override that, people power can't make him innocent either. They can only break him out of jail.

And the same quesiton once again - what is this circus with avoiding prison time has got to do with democracy?

This is something I find very interesting. He knows, there's absolutely no way he would Go Straight To Jail, Do Not Pass Go, so why doesn't he just, well, board the next flight back and see what happens? Can't possibly be worse (or more expensive) then conducting this extraordinary proxy government from overseas? He'd quite probably be given a slightly embarrassed reception, quickly followed by a photo opportunitied leading off to some semblance of serving jailtime, same as Chamlong ... and then after a night or two, let go free to carry on with whatever mayhem he thinks he might be able to get away with visiting upon the Thai populace. Hmmmm. I think there's something much more to all this ...

[animatic]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

Exactly....was it really necessary to give the thread this title.??

I think we should let that lay. We don't want to have to prefix Thaksin with "The vile criminal despot robber barron country selling.." every time we utter his name do we? Nor the PAD supporters prefix Sonthi with "The devine righteous representative on earth of God, Buddha, Allah, Jehova .."

This is a sign of how polaised this debacle has become

True enough, but on another thread Animatic did condescend to call Sondhi ' a snake ' which was very liberal of him and much appreciated

Where can you get the idea that all or most anti-Thaksin people are

a ) pro PAD 100%

b ) Think of Sondhi as some sort of godhead figure.

c ) that any one expects him to head a government if PPP goes,

d ) that there is this unified PAD = all anti-Thaksin grouped together.

Sorry Charlie no sale doesn't exist, just a PPP boggieman to slam at.

It is more likely that many have finally woken up to the danger of Thaksins,

and so are not AGAINST PAD as a consequence, since they are actively

preventing Thaksin from coming back to take revenge.

The man is a dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator,

with a proven vengeful streak, and 76 billion reasons to not care

if people die top let him get his way.

He is not coming back, if he can, to act democratically, but to rule.

Defend him, and you defend the destruction of society in any image, but the one he chooses.

Eeeee oop chuck, sorry....I missed this riposte of yours earlier as I was rushing out for some seafood so I've only just noticed it.

Now lets see ...... from this I gather that :

a ) You are not pro Pad 100 %

b ) You don't think Sondhi is a Godhead ( just a means to an end ?? )

c ) That you don't think he'll ever lead a govournment ( phew )

d ) Er...a bit vague this...that not everyone who hates Thaksin likes PAD ??

Well, I'm glad to hear it !! As for the rest....well

a ) Not everyone who hates the PAD loves Thaksin

b ) A lot of people who don't trust Thaksin trust the PADs ideas even less.

c ) Not every anti PAD remark is a pro Thaksin one

d ) Seafood is good for you if you don't have to wait half an hour for it.

As for the dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator with a proven vengeful streak etc etc.......blimey....thats old Sondhi in one !!! GOAAAAAAAALLLL

P.S. My apologies for the smileys ??? I didn't put them there ???

Letter b space key then ) voila no smilies.

I won't dispute that Sondhi and Thaksin are two sides of a similar personality coin.

I got to say though that Thaksin lit the match first. He could have kept a valuable ally,

or created a vengeful enemy with skills. He did the latter. To his detriment.

Who was it said this great quote for those in power :

"Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."

Sondhi is 'Thaksinsteins Monster'!

He created this grotesque and it terrified the towns folk

who tore down Thaksin's castle and ran him off.

Edited November 2, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

Is this correct. Is there a protocol to be followed or legal pro forma?

Or are you surmising this is the way you'd expect to see a pardon application being submitted?

I have heard a discrete letter to the Privy Council is the correct protocol form for this.

It puts you on the list to be vetted for later royal birthday approval.

No other method would fit protocol requirements.

[jdinasia]

Hope you are not one of those idiots who believed that he paid IMF from his own pocket.

He was the one who could pay the loan by circulating money in Thailand. Not his pocket money for sure. But the cleared the loan.

Yeah right no one ELSE every circulates money around the country...

Only Thaksin? You must be from another economy or planet for sure.

Such foolishness.

He and the people in his cabinet did. Not done by Democrat Party.

LOL .. and who benefitted from Thaksin paying off the IMF fund ... and what businesses did he bail out?

The IMF was a low interest loan that should have been paid off in time .. as paying it off early actually cost the country $$

[Journalist]

^Well certainly then making the request in in a football stadium in the form of a rock concert doesn't fit with that nicety !

Still he was always going to do it in a transparent way that smashed convention.

Thailand is certainly changing its style and being dragged into territory it has never encountered. And anyone who thinks Thaksin is not going to be around in ten years time - or more naively think he should come home and serve his time in Klong Prem, will have a rude awakening !

[thaigene2]

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

Is this correct. Is there a protocol to be followed or legal pro forma?

Or are you surmising this is the way you'd expect to see a pardon application being submitted?

I have heard a discrete letter to the Privy Council is the correct protocol form for this.

It puts you on the list to be vetted for later royal birthday approval.

No other method would fit protocol requirements.

How warm and nice. I know of guys in this country (personally) who stole 200$ worth of stuff and got 3 years in prison. No pardons yet. Maybe they didn't know how to write a discrete letter or who to ask for the vetting procedure?

If any Mod deletes this they'd better delete the Animatic post too!

[Journalist]

^Thailand treats its dodgy fallen politicos fairly well.

Tax evasion and land diddles........kind of small stuff in the big picture, -s'not as if he had thousands of people extrajudicially killed.

Like it or not, Thaksin is rewriting the rule book.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Journalist

[Koo82]

We wanted to go yesterday, but couldn't. Yesterday "hoai ook" (Had results for the not official lucky draw tickets) No one ever mentioned paying us. We wanted to go ourselves.

[sabaijai]

Wonder what happened to his promise never to get involved in politics again?

[Koo82]

It's a shame that such an historical event doesn't get its own thread (that's it largely deserves) but it's a reminder that when it comes to communication, Sondhi's boys are much more organized that Thaksin supporters.

On the other hand, it gives us the opportunity to compare PAD protests and Thaksin support rally.

- First, the HUGE difference of number of people who attend these rallies. It doesn't matter for PAD supporters who don't give a d@mn about democracy but for others it's a warm reminder that when it comes to count its own, Thaksin still come first, and by far.

- A peaceful rally. From the BP : "Security fears fade : Good-natured supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra ...". Where were the heavily armed thugs who populate PAD rally ? I'm sure Sondhi's boys who are never short of pictures to tell us "their" side of the story will have already published them. Or maybe it takes longer to "photoshop" a peaceful crowd in a hostile mob. Honestly the easiest way would be to take a picture of a PAD rally and "paint" the yellow shirts in red .

- A legal rally. When PAD thugs highjack government buildings and turn peaceful neighborhood into war zone, Thaksin supporters rent a stadium. When PAD thugs, like a plague of locusts, trash whatever place they say, Thaksin supporters "were camping on the football pitch and running track, which were covered for protection." Then after the rally, the place weas returned to the public and the crowd peacefully dispersed. Definitively NOT a PAD rally.

Well said.

[thaigene2]

Yes clearly they (admin) are coralling everything into a smaller tent. No surprise - shows how scared they TV owners are, not to mention the corrupt Thai upper classes who spent generations ensuring they'd have a family member in every arm of the bureaucracy..til Thaksin came along.. Now they are REALLY freaked out! Look at the army trying to control thought and speech now through ISOC! Maybe the next slogan for Thailand should be "Thailand - don't think - Obey!" A friend of mine from Burma, now working overseas, said it was like deja vu - "Thailand is becoming Burma" - not tomorrow, but 5 or 10 years from now.

[jdinasia]

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

Is this correct. Is there a protocol to be followed or legal pro forma?

Or are you surmising this is the way you'd expect to see a pardon application being submitted?

I have heard a discrete letter to the Privy Council is the correct protocol form for this.

It puts you on the list to be vetted for later royal birthday approval.

No other method would fit protocol requirements.

How warm and nice. I know of guys in this country (personally) who stole 200$ worth of stuff and got 3 years in prison. No pardons yet. Maybe they didn't know how to write a discrete letter or who to ask for the vetting procedure?

If any Mod deletes this they'd better delete the Animatic post too!

Why does it not surprise me you personally know thieves?

[thaigene2]

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

Is this correct. Is there a protocol to be followed or legal pro forma?

Or are you surmising this is the way you'd expect to see a pardon application being submitted?

I have heard a discrete letter to the Privy Council is the correct protocol form for this.

It puts you on the list to be vetted for later royal birthday approval.

No other method would fit protocol requirements.

How warm and nice. I know of guys in this country (personally) who stole 200$ worth of stuff and got 3 years in prison. No pardons yet. Maybe they didn't know how to write a discrete letter or who to ask for the vetting procedure?

If any Mod deletes this they'd better delete the Animatic post too!

Why does it not surprise me you personally know thieves?

Well, I know you don't I?

[Koo82]

Koo82, you're entitled to love whom you please, but I for one, have trouble loving someone who so effectively turned Thailand in to his personal fiefdom, squeezing ever larger amounts of lucre toward his own purse.

I can't fail to see how much he developed Thailand. He took the chance to be rich at the same time. Not strange. He's human being. But others became rich and couldn't do anything for the country. That's the difference.

[uptou]

Who in there right mind would turn up for this party.I mean what has this particular thai PM ever done to warrant the effort for people to turn up???

I understand that the majority of the crowd were north easterners......90,000 x 500 baht + travel expenses + 90,000 lovely red tshirts.