Apt Mgr Now Thinks He Is An Immigration Official

[Lite Beer]

You are temporary until you apply for and get permanent residence (PR). Staying on a 1 year extension is temporary.

Yes. Most of us are here temporary. It makes no difference if you have a Thai Spouse , your own home or have been here for years.

[vagabond48]

I was here about 1 year when I went for the 1st time to a DTAC store in CM airport central to get my sim card topped, they asked for my passport to make a copy. Although I thought it was strange, I gave them a copy to make a copy. When I came back a month later, they asked me again and I politely told them you already have a copy. When I came back the 3rd time, they asked again, but since then I haven't been asked. I am not sure why they think they have to have a passport copy to transact business at this low level.

Edited November 4, 2008 by vagabond48

[Mario2008]

^ That was probably a few years ago, when they wanted to register every sim-card.

[rabmail]

Situation:

Earlier this week, my apt manager comes to my door along with one of the receptionists demanding that I hand over my passport so he could "inspect" it. I said no. He persisted, raising his voice a little, saying to the effect that he "just wanted to see if everyting all right, then no poblem, I give back and you can stay."

I politely said no again and that if they had an urgent question about my status (which is current, BTW) that they should call immigration and have them come and check. I told them I would wait there.

Now, this guy is really starting to get agitated and the receptionist started giving me a real mistrustful look. Several more requests to just hand over my passport to these people and then, exasperated, they both leave. Nothing else happens that day.

Two days later, the same scenario plays out, only this time he is agitated from the gitgo, and receptionist is giving me a real dirty look this time. I asked why he did not call immigration. He said he tried but "phone always busy" I then suggested that he simply call the police (that I know how to say in Thai), and again I would wait right there. Some hemming and hawing, more of the same demands, and then they both leave again.

A few more days transpire and now it's time to pay my rent. In the interest of trying to defuse the situation and prevent the all-important "loss of face", I decided to make a copy of my current visa stamp and show that and my passport while I paid my rent -- but still NOT surrender my passport. Instead, I just held open the corresponding page so they could verify the copy.

Receptionist calls middle manager. Middle manager inspects the copy, then calls this prick of a main manager. All three play immigration official, and then, "determine" I'm legit.

Then, instead of an apology, the main manager turns to me before he leaves and says,

"As soon as you get new visa and stamp, you make copy and give to me right away, then you can stay, no poblem."

<deleted>?

For the record, I've been in good standing with them all the time that I've been there. No problems that I can think of.

Some questions (for those that know): what is the legality of the situation here? Is this a "new rule" or something? Can they demand a copy of every current visa and stamp or should I just ignore their requests (and maybe move on)?

Their country, their laws. You either accept them or you leave.

The apartment manager is required by law to have up to date information on all foreigners residing in the apartment. This law has existed as far back as I can remember. I have apartments in Bangkok and Phuket and each time I return to Thailand I supply the management with my passport so they can copy it for their records. It takes a few minutes to do this and keeps everybody legal. What is the problem.

As for not wanting to let anyone have possession of your passport, you have to be practical. You send your passport for a Visa, it is much easier to let the travel agent do the running so he takes your passport and a few days later he comes back with the Visa. You go into an Office Building with good Security you have to surrender your Passport to get in. Not a big deal in my opinion.

I have been in and out of Thailand for the past 38 years and in all that time I have not had any problem with my passport being misused. I am happy to comply with any request to inspect my passport, I am a foreigner and I have nothing to hide. If by chance something happens to the passport while it is out of my hands, I simply file a police report, take the copy's of my old passport and go to the Embassy and get a new passport one week later. Then I do down to Immigration and get them to chop my new passport.

Dick

[asiawatcher]

Under no circumstances do you EVER hand your passport to anyone other than Immigration and Embassy Officials. Not even Police. The Passport is the property of your Embassy and your country of origin and the Police also know they have no right to demand, take or keep it. This also applies outside of Thailand. Show yes, copy yes and endorse the copy for the use it is intended i.e. for reporting purposes only with a large line thru the copy and sign the copy (which may actually match your signature in the passport!). If you rent a motorbike and are stupid enough to leave your passport with the vendor, be prepared to suffer the consequences of copies of the number and different faces turning up in immigration in another passport with your number and try work that one out with Immigration. It happens!

[raro]

Reports to Immigration require current visa type, current TM card number, arrival date and visa expiration date. If you have left the country within that past year then all of your current information would be different than the information the manager had. There is a fine for not reporting, btw.

honestly, I never heard about the details of this requirement, also because no landlord in 11 years has ever bothered to ask me anything about it.

I for one would (just as the OP) not have shown my passport referring to officials to do so. Not their business. My passport number is in the rental contract I think the landlord has a copy of the passport picture page (which I feel is reasonable to ask for, even though it is not legally required).

If they have any doubts about my legal status, they can report this to the immigration and they will be more than happy to do the check on the landlord's behalf.

[eljeque]

He should have had your passport front page copy from the time you moved in.

Let him know you have not change your passport so nothing has changed.

You could even show him the same front page, if he lost the first one.

He is supposed to report to Immigration that you = your passport number is staying at his residence.

Immigration will determine if anything needs to be done, including looing at your visa pages.

Never give your passport to anyone (ex. airlines for tickets or at the bank.)

If you show it to anyone, hold it tight, and do not allow them to get their hands on it (especially this manager!)

[Maestro]

…honestly, I never heard about the details of this requirement, also because no landlord in 11 years has ever bothered to ask me anything about it…

This is the form the house owner is required by law to fill in and submit to the competent authority:

As you can see, nine pieces of information are required about the foreigner staying at the owner's place.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

Under no circumstances do you EVER hand your passport to anyone other than Immigration and Embassy Officials…

It looks like you have never stayed at a hotel in Thailand.

When I checked in at the Sofitel Centara in Hua Hin the check-in staff did not record the nine required pieces of information on the form TM.30 immediately while I checked in and to do so would obviously not have been practical. Therefore, they needed to get my passport into their hands and make copies of page 00 (name and surname, nationality, passport number), page 09 (date of arrival, expiration date of stay, point of entry), page 15 (type of visa), and the departure card stapled to page 09 (TM number)

The type of visa could also be gleaned from the arrival stamp but often that handwritten note is barely legible and a look at the visa itself gives clearer information.

--

Maestro

[aussimike]

While I do agree that this obsession with passports is extremely annoying, I think the apt manager's request isn't too "far out" considering that even some private OFFICE BUILDINGS security ask foreigners to surrender passport to gain entry...

...they say either "passport or Govt. I.D." and no other type of I.D. is valid. Not all countries issue a Govt. I.D. like Thailand does so that means in that case you'd have to surrender your.... PASSPORT!

an

there is no way know on this earth that i would ever surrender my passport to any building security guard - ok driver lic if i had it one me but anyone who even considered that these guys have any right to ever ask = let alone demand are out of their minds --- and my pass port belong to the Aust govt not me -- and its the most valuable thing i have in the LOS = without it - well i hate to think -- i even have my 3 previous passport all macked together -- and they never leave my side - and on the point of reporting foreign residents - the local police check often - the apartment must keep a daily register of farang staying either over nite or long term -- but i have never been asked to show my passport - and yes am legal - non- imm B - always have been -

[Maestro]

…the apartment must keep a daily register of farang staying either over nite or long term -- but i have never been asked to show my passport - and yes am legal - non- imm B - always have been -

Yes, you are legal. Nothing for you to worry about if the apartment owner does not comply with legal requirements; apparently many do not, with impunity.

--

Maestro

[Kaojai]

Turns out, that they had received notification that it was their sole duty and responsibility to get a current updated list of all the foreigners residing on their premises. In this letter it stated that failure to do so would subject them to a fine and possible punishment. Not a big deal, and better this thatn actually having the imigration showing up at your door saying howdy doody, show

Yes, in our building they posted some letter from Immigrations requiring them to get passport/visa details. There was some punishment mentioned for managers who failed to do this, but it also stated that if the foreigner's information hadn't been reported to Immigrations, your annual visa extension would be ... I forget now...either delayed or refused or something along those lines.

I took my passport to the manager and he photocopied the first pages and the current visa & most recent extension. No operatic histrionics or proclamations of "I know my rights!" involved. Two minutes time and we then both went on with our lives.

While the manager mentioned by the OP may have been less than tactful, there are times when a limited ability to express themselves in English (and a non-existent ability of the farang to speak Thai) can easily lead to misunderstandings and frustration. Unfortunately the arrogant response of too many farang just escalates the frustration level.

Some of the responses referring to "grubby mitts" and the possibility he might go berserk and shred the passport or demand cash to return it are just provocative nonsense. Rather than assuming all these ridiculous scenarios, why not just comply. If you didn't want to part company with the passport, which is reasonable, show him the passport and bring in a photocopy of the needed pages or go to the office and ask them to photocopy it.

Every little thing doesn't need to be blown up out of proportion. It isn't the Thais who seem to be always worried about saving face. It's the farang with an exaggerated vision of their own importance that's the problem.

[Crash999]

Rather, it is about whether every hotel, apt., guesthouse, etc. becomes secondary immigration checkpoints, flipping thru the pages of foreigners' passports, checking to see if "your papers are in order", as if they were some kind of Thai Gestapo.

Have you stayed at a hotel in Thailand? They do in fact flip through your passport to check the visa and make photocopies as they're obliged to do under Thai law.

I regards to the original post, it's probably the local coppers leaning on condo owners in the area to ensure their paperwork is in order or get fined.

No reason to hide the passport unless, in fact, there's something to hide.

[HorseDoctor]

...As for not wanting to let anyone have possession of your passport, you have to be practical. You send your passport for a Visa, it is much easier to let the travel agent do the running so he takes your passport and a few days later he comes back with the Visa. You go into an Office Building with good Security you have to surrender your Passport to get in. Not a big deal in my opinion...

This is illegal, only the passport holder is to present it for a visa stamp, Big signs in Bangkok Immigration stated it when I got my visa .

But of course it's done, until it's convenient to enforce the law, it's not

I

[DegenFarang]

You remind me of that guy who got arrested after not wanting to show his receipt when leaving Circuit City.

Sometimes in life you are going to have to deal with people who enjoy the little power they get in their jobs and who take their jobs way too seriously. Learn from the Thai people on how to deal with them...just smile and do as they ask you to do, and hate them in private.

Sometimes you have to take a stand, but this is not one of those times. Now they are all going to talk about what a jerk you are behind your back. The people who run your building are not people you want to hate you.

Edited November 9, 2008 by DegenFarang

[sniffdog]

Yes, might be stated, but it's a common site to see these agents carrying 50 or more passports around at Suan Phlu.

[mangostays]

What's the problem? Just let him see your passport. I think he has the right.

He, like any other non immigration/police/government official has no rights to demand to see your passport. As a building manager he does have the legal right (and requirement) to ask you to complete a simple form stating passport number, visa number, home address, length of stay, next address etc etc. This is mainly in case you go missing in Thailand and helps the cops track down your corpse.

Like a lot of people in authority, he probably thinks, as a foreigner, you're way too stupid to fill out the official form correctly, and besides, he's in charge so really wants his gimp secretary to fill the form in on both yours and his behalf to make himself to important.

She was p*ssed because you, by refusing to surrender the passport, probably made her feel inadequate as an 'administrator' or something equally lame and basically told her boss to go stick it up his a£se.

Please remember, it really REALLY is against the law to hand over your passport to anybody, simply because foreigners by law are required to carry their passport with them at all times. And that includes renting a motorbike and hand over your passport as security.

However, for the sake of an easy life, it is far better to humour the moron with a bit of inane smiling and head stooping (and yes, let the fool look at your passport - I wouldn't worry, he cant' understand any of the writing actually in the passport), as opposed to digging in your heals and eventually punching out the 20 watt light bulb he probably has for a brain.

Edited November 9, 2008 by mangostays

[snowy]

Rather, it is about whether every hotel, apt., guesthouse, etc. becomes secondary immigration checkpoints, flipping thru the pages of foreigners' passports, checking to see if "your papers are in order", as if they were some kind of Thai Gestapo.

Have you stayed at a hotel in Thailand? They do in fact flip through your passport to check the visa and make photocopies as they're obliged to do under Thai law.

I regards to the original post, it's probably the local coppers leaning on condo owners in the area to ensure their paperwork is in order or get fined.

No reason to hide the passport unless, in fact, there's something to hide.

Here Here,

Whenever i have stayed in any hotel or condo in Los i have always had to produce my passport,

Los is not alone here, most countries have the same policy, and in most cases you are not surrendering your pp to the manager but to the check in clerk, refuse and there is no room.

Try as a foriegner to check into a hotel in london without producing your pp.

As a foriegner visiting your wonderful country called the US as in any other country try renting a car from Dollar or Alamo without surendering your pp to the clerk and see if you get a rental.

I really do not know what all the fuss is about.

[jdinasia]

This is illegal, only the passport holder is to present it for a visa stamp, Big signs in Bangkok Immigration stated it when I got my visa .

But of course it's done, until it's convenient to enforce the law, it's not

I

No, it isn't

[loganberry]

I completely agree with group member "Sophon" on this one. I have never had rented anything under my own name here in Bangkok, but a few years ago when signing a new lease elsewhere I heard that the property management company/owner must register all foreigners with the government office (maybe Land Department or something or other). Subsequently, I have kept everything in the name of my fiance since then (who is a Thai national).

So yeah, I would say that they could justly ask you for your papers, but then again their strategy of doing so was probably more rude than service-oriented. That situation must have been a complete bummer though. I would have lost my mind and called some immigration officers if they had acted like that to me.

[jackspratt]

While the manager mentioned by the OP may have been less than tactful, there are times when a limited ability to express themselves in English (and a non-existent ability of the farang to speak Thai) can easily lead to misunderstandings and frustration. Unfortunately the arrogant response of too many farang just escalates the frustration level.

Some of the responses referring to "grubby mitts" and the possibility he might go berserk and shred the passport or demand cash to return it are just provocative nonsense. Rather than assuming all these ridiculous scenarios, why not just comply. If you didn't want to part company with the passport, which is reasonable, show him the passport and bring in a photocopy of the needed pages or go to the office and ask them to photocopy it.

Every little thing doesn't need to be blown up out of proportion. It isn't the Thais who seem to be always worried about saving face. It's the farang with an exaggerated vision of their own importance that's the problem.

:D

[Badbanker]

Looking at this thread why hasn't anyone mentioned that it is ESSENTIAL to cross out your passport with 2 heavy dark lines, to deface the "BAD" copy you give so it cannot be scanned and manipulated. Then write on the passport something like this:

This passport copy was given to ABC Apartment Khun Somchai on 1/12/2008.

This is standard procedure for "in the know" wealthy Thai's giving photocopies of their ID cards, and is legally acceptable in this country! It is after all being given for identification only.

After you have been in Thailand for a while, you will get into a habit of doing this, some even do it at immigration, to ensure that your passport copy is not fraudulently used to cash a cheque or be used in a manner other than the way you originally intended it to be used.

Bad experience not to be repeated!

Badbanker

Edited November 9, 2008 by Badbanker

[rabmail]

…This is illegal, only the passport holder is to present it for a visa stamp, Big signs in Bangkok Immigration stated it when I got my visa …

I was not referring to getting a Thai Visa, I understand that, but I get my Thai Visa's outside of Thailand and have never ever been present at the Thai Embassy when they are issued. I was referring to getting a Visa from an Embassy of another country that I wished to visit. It is common practice to use a Travel Agent/Visa Agent to process Visa Applications. I have been doing this for 38 years so I have some idea about this.

Dick

[rabmail]

While the manager mentioned by the OP may have been less than tactful, there are times when a limited ability to express themselves in English (and a non-existent ability of the farang to speak Thai) can easily lead to misunderstandings and frustration. Unfortunately the arrogant response of too many farang just escalates the frustration level.

Some of the responses referring to "grubby mitts" and the possibility he might go berserk and shred the passport or demand cash to return it are just provocative nonsense. Rather than assuming all these ridiculous scenarios, why not just comply. If you didn't want to part company with the passport, which is reasonable, show him the passport and bring in a photocopy of the needed pages or go to the office and ask them to photocopy it.

Every little thing doesn't need to be blown up out of proportion. It isn't the Thais who seem to be always worried about saving face. It's the farang with an exaggerated vision of their own importance that's the problem.

:D

Very well stated

[puipuitom]

My passport is my government's property, with me allowed too use this as a travel document, to hand over only and exclisivey to the proper authorities.

Abn appartment manager does NOT belong to the group of "proper authorities", so he can forget it to get my passport. Theat's why I always make a.s.ap a copy of passport + immigration card. That is what they can get.

Remind: it is NOT the first time a non-official keeps that pasport and sells it. Aks your embassy in whatever country about their experience ...

I travel to Thailand since 1993 and NEVER got this problem. Even in a hotel, they want to make a copy WHERE I CAN SEE MY passport continously.

Simply a appartment manager, who wants to be important, and when failed, lost face for his staff

[tropo]

WISteve,

If you read my initial post, you'll see that I did exactly that: made a copy of the page with the current stamp and handed it to them. That's all that was necessary.

But do they have the right to act as immigration officials in this case? I still say no.

What they did succeed in doing, however, is create a pending vacancy...

I wouldn't take that kind of treatment from a manager at a place I've been staying for a year. I would have vacated before paying more rent.

I don't know where you live, but in Pattaya its easy to find apartments owned by farang who don't grill their good tenants like that.

[tropo]

Rather, it is about whether every hotel, apt., guesthouse, etc. becomes secondary immigration checkpoints, flipping thru the pages of foreigners' passports, checking to see if "your papers are in order", as if they were some kind of Thai Gestapo.

I agree. The only people I'll allow to thumb their way through my passport are immigration officials and police. The other people can get a photo copy of the relevant page showing my status. What's in the rest of the passport is personal.

Edited November 9, 2008 by tropo

[jackspratt]

I have seen many a thread on this forum where paranoia is running rampant.

But right from the OP, I reckon this one takes the cake.

[Tod Daniels]

I see the card carrying, color coordinated shirt and/or bracelet wearing members of the "we-b-thai" camp are out in force on this post weighing in with the same old rhetoric of "luv it or leave it".

I commend the O/P for standing up for what he felt was wrong, and I would pay little mind to the posters who sided with the mindless answer of "their country their rules ".

While I will agree it is their country and they can make the rules as they see fit; the last time I checked even this tiny insignificant developing third world country had designated people whose job it is to enforce said rules. Sadly an apartment manager falls far short of the illustrious category of 'rule enforcer'.

Every once in a while here someone in a position of 'semi-authority' will get a little too full of themselves and "demand" to see some document or other of mine. Sadly (for them) I don't do demands, and rarely comply with requests that aren't couched politely.

I think the O/P was well within his rights. Just as I am SURE, had he not been, the Police and/or Immigrations would have been called by the all powerful manager forthwith. Copies of his passport were given and that is totally enough for the manager to comply with the current Immigration rules about foreigners residing in their buildings in the glorious "Land 'O Thais"..

[Maestro]

…I was not referring to getting a Thai Visa, I understand that, but I get my Thai Visa's outside of Thailand and have never ever been present at the Thai Embassy when they are issued. I was referring to getting a Visa from an Embassy of another country that I wished to visit. It is common practice to use a Travel Agent/Visa Agent to process Visa Applications. I have been doing this for 38 years so I have some idea about this.

Yes, that’s exactly how I understood it when I read it. I have a friend who owns a travel agency in Switzerland and her agency does a lot of visa applications for customers who travel to other countries. Of course, the traveller has to sign the visa application form, but that’s all.

--

Maestro