Apt Mgr Now Thinks He Is An Immigration Official

[Maestro]

…Copies of his passport were given and that is totally enough for the manager to comply with the current Immigration rules about foreigners residing in their buildings in the glorious "Land 'O Thais"..

You are right, copies were given, but you have to see it in the context of the original post: on the first two occasions he adamantly refused to show his passport for inspection and only on the third occasion did he give copies and show his passport. So the first two times the OP was wrong and the third time he acted correctly.

All’s well that ends well.

--

Maestro

[ballzafire]

…Copies of his passport were given and that is totally enough for the manager to comply with the current Immigration rules about foreigners residing in their buildings in the glorious "Land 'O Thais"..

You are right, copies were given, but you have to see it in the context of the original post: on the first two occasions he adamantly refused to show his passport for inspection and only on the third occasion did he give copies and show his passport. So the first two times the OP was wrong and the third time he acted correctly. All's well that ends well. -- Maestro

Whoa... whoa...

What say ye? I was "wrong" for not surrendering my passport to a non-immigration official, a mere over-zealous apt. mgr. who already had a copy of my passport vitals from a year ago, and who expressly wanted to check to see if my stamp was current?

I think not.

Again, if they were somehow legally entitled to demand my passport, at any time, for "inspection of current status", then they would not have objected to my, yes, my request to call immigration (or the police... remember, I gave them a choice) and have them stop by and investigate the situation.

I still maintain that they had no legal right to act as impromptu immigration officials, and so I still maintain that, in this instance, I was in the right to withhold my passport. I believe this will stand up to legal scrutiny, too.

Again, I made a copy of my stamp only to show them that I was, indeed, legal tourist material, so as to avoid unnecessary escalation of the matter, and also prevent the all-important Thai "loss of face."

Also, for those of you still following this thread and who would like to hear a bit of humor about this incident, I didn't mention in my original post that these three apt officials actually had to confer about the date on the stamp!

Yes, one of them (the middle mgr) wasn't quite sure if the date was in the future or in the past. She had to think about it for a few moments...

After further consultation with the receptionist, all three finally reached a consensus -- yes, the date of the stamp was, indeed, in the future, and I was free to stay.

Whew, what a relief!

As Bernard Trink used to say, "More cases of T.I.T."

Edited November 9, 2008 by ballzafire

[rabmail]

I have seen many a thread on this forum where paranoia is running rampant.

But right from the OP, I reckon this one takes the cake.

I totally agree with you.

[ballzafire]

Rather, it is about whether every hotel, apt., guesthouse, etc. becomes secondary immigration checkpoints, flipping thru the pages of foreigners' passports, checking to see if "your papers are in order", as if they were some kind of Thai Gestapo.

I agree. The only people I'll allow to thumb their way through my passport are immigration officials and police. The other people can get a photo copy of the relevant page showing my status. What's in the rest of the passport is personal.

Yes.

I think the people posting here saying "what's the big deal" prolly originate from countries where they've been conditioned to just "surrender their papers" to whomever asks for them......

Edited November 9, 2008 by ballzafire

[jackspratt]

I think the people posting here saying "what's the big deal" prolly originate from countries where they've been conditioned to just "surrender their papers" to whomever asks for them......

Ahh! yes................. those sensible, non-paranoid types

[Alwaysright]

I'll go ahead and post a contrarian perspective. I've never had a problem giving landlords

a copy of my passport data page. I'm not really comfortable giving exact and constantly

updated visa information and I'll tell you why. Suppose for example my tourist visa runs-

out on NOV 15 and I just happen to be quite ill for 2-3 days that week and unable to travel?

Do you really want them to be in that position over you? Some of them ARE too nosy.There.

They should check everybody's passport,too many illegals here making it harder for everybody else!!

[tropo]

I'll go ahead and post a contrarian perspective. I've never had a problem giving landlords

a copy of my passport data page. I'm not really comfortable giving exact and constantly

updated visa information and I'll tell you why. Suppose for example my tourist visa runs-

out on NOV 15 and I just happen to be quite ill for 2-3 days that week and unable to travel?

Do you really want them to be in that position over you? Some of them ARE too nosy.There.

They should check everybody's passport,too many illegals here making it harder for everybody else!!

And a member of the moral brigade chimes in too. I don't find it hard, what's your problem?

[kconor]

Comment to the comments:

The apartment manager is 'culpable', jailable, if he permits an alien to reside in his building; the manager is driven by fear and paranoia. A 'managed' building, usually requests a xerox copy when appling for a room.

The afair becomes more slimy and dank for small, small, nearly invisible rooms. My wife, is thai-ishan and part burmese; as she looks more burmese, she gets strange looks from

real 'thai'. We found a cheap, 1k/ month room in prakanong area, woman manager was

'overjoyed' to have a couple with children, she even offered the usual 'lucky' dead chicken upon our move in. However, she continued to visit at all hours, to socialize and

view...and as the youngest child was often with babysitter and sometimes overnighted,

this 'manager' became too curious. The curiosity advanced to her sneaking into the room

and searching for identity cards [my wife discovered this]. Later the manger said: 'she

is not supposed to let burmese stay, but she would make an exception to help us, if we

would pay and extra months rent deposit,...every month,....as she also had some other

burmese staying in her building' [that was actually true] However, as she wanted the

money quickly, I found she was also prone to maliciousness,...as tossing my sneakers

off the rooftop, or tossing my laundry to her dogs that were housed on the roof.

Outcome. Late night, fast exit via taxi to a cheap hotel. The people, who live in

T-land, and pass themselves off as 'civilized' or 'helpful' are more abundant than most

realize.

As for a passport belonging technically to an embassy, this is technically true, but

if thai police or someone wants to see it, mine is as thick as my arm from all the in/outs

[mr thaksin implimented]...I never carry it, I never show it...to anyone, and just say

a simple, direct NO.

[Maestro]

…if they were somehow legally entitled to demand my passport, at any time, for "inspection of current status"…

I still maintain that they had no legal right to act as impromptu immigration officials, and so I still maintain that, in this instance, I was in the right to withhold my passport. I believe this will stand up to legal scrutiny, too.

The building owner, respectively his representative, had the legal obligation to inspect your passport for the purpose of copying information from it onto the form he must submit to the immigration office. Please, don’t believe this because I say so; read section 38 of the Immigration Act, which you can find at this link:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/act_imm_2522.html

If you have difficulty reading or understanding it, submit it to a lawyer for legal scrutiny and see if your stance stands up to it.

I can’t say why the building manager did not act on your request to call the police. Perhaps he meant to be kind to you and spare you an embarrassment. Next time, you should call the police yourself.

--

Maestro

[abdulrahman]

…if they were somehow legally entitled to demand my passport, at any time, for "inspection of current status"…

I still maintain that they had no legal right to act as impromptu immigration officials, and so I still maintain that, in this instance, I was in the right to withhold my passport. I believe this will stand up to legal scrutiny, too.

The building owner, respectively his representative, had the legal obligation to inspect your passport for the purpose of copying information from it onto the form he must submit to the immigration office. Please, don’t believe this because I say so; read section 38 of the Immigration Act, which you can find at this link:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/act_imm_2522.html

If you have difficulty reading or understanding it, submit it to a lawyer for legal scrutiny and see if your stance stands up to it.

I can’t say why the building manager did not act on your request to call the police. Perhaps he meant to be kind to you and spare you an embarrassment. Next time, you should call the police yourself.

--

Maestro

Two weeks ago,Bangkok,a cheap GH near Hualampong.The old harridan wanted to look at my PP,Visa and entry card.F*** her.

Went 20 m farther,Thai DL,same price,no problem!For me(paranoid?)worth the effort!

[ballzafire]

…if they were somehow legally entitled to demand my passport, at any time, for "inspection of current status"… I still maintain that they had no legal right to act as impromptu immigration officials, and so I still maintain that, in this instance, I was in the right to withhold my passport. I believe this will stand up to legal scrutiny, too.

The building owner, respectively his representative, had the legal obligation to inspect your passport for the purpose of copying information from it onto the form he must submit to the immigration office. Please, don't believe this because I say so; read section 38 of the Immigration Act, which you can find at this link: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/act_imm_2522.html If you have difficulty reading or understanding it, submit it to a lawyer for legal scrutiny and see if your stance stands up to it. I can't say why the building manager did not act on your request to call the police. Perhaps he meant to be kind to you and spare you an embarrassment. Next time, you should call the police yourself. -- Maestro

I have no problem with that. As I have already stated twice now, first-page info was taken over a year ago when I first moved in. A very understandable procedure, and one that I fully complied with. And my information should still be on file, too.

But did they also flip thru my passport and check for the validity of my stamp at that time? No, not that I recall. That wasn't necessary.

Again, the question remains: does a non-governmental official and/or private Thai citizen have the legal authority to demand inspection of any foreigner's passport at any time with the intent to determine current visa status, as if he were a bonified immigration official?

I still say no.

And yes, I tried explaining the situation to the Tourist Police but it was just more of the same sheepishness and giggles from them for not understanding English too well, so it was a waste of time...

[ballzafire]

Looking at this thread why hasn't anyone mentioned that it is ESSENTIAL to cross out your passport with 2 heavy dark lines, to deface the "BAD" copy you give so it cannot be scanned and manipulated. Then write on the passport something like this: This passport copy was given to ABC Apartment Khun Somchai on 1/12/2008. This is standard procedure for "in the know" wealthy Thai's giving photocopies of their ID cards, and is legally acceptable in this country! It is after all being given for identification only. After you have been in Thailand for a while, you will get into a habit of doing this, some even do it at immigration, to ensure that your passport copy is not fraudulently used to cash a cheque or be used in a manner other than the way you originally intended it to be used. Bad experience not to be repeated! Badbanker

You mean put a giant 'X' over it to invalidate it? I don't know if that's necessary.

Give us an example of what a Thai with criminal intent can do with a mere photocopy of the first page of your passport.

This I have to hear...

[Sophon]

I have no problem with that. As I have already stated twice now, first-page info was taken over a year ago when I first moved in. A very understandable procedure, and one that I fully complied with. And my information should still be on file, too.

But did they also flip thru my passport and check for the validity of my stamp at that time? No, not that I recall. That wasn't necessary.

But as you can see from the attachments in Maestro's post (no. 38) the apartment owner/manager has the obligation to report information that he could not find in the copy they have on file:

Date of arrival

Type of visa

Expire date of stay

Point of entry

Arrival card T.M. No.

How do you propose that he find that information if you are not willing to let him see your passport?

I'm sure that the apartment manager could have been more flexible, but from the tone of your original (and subsequent) posts I would guess that the same could be said about yourself. Had you immediately told the manager that you would supply photocopies with all the pertinent data I believe it's more than likely that he would have been happy with that.

They may not have checked for the same data when you moved in, but they have recently started enforcing this old rule more strictly. So the apartment manager could get in trouble for not reporting your stay.

I am also one of those who would have no problem at all with allowing an apartment manager to look through my passport. And no, I don't come from a country where anyone have ever asked to see my passport (except when I'm leaving the country). But when I'm in Thailand I have to follow the rules of the land and allow others (like the apartment manager) to do the same.

So with a little flexibility from both sides this would never have become a problem. No need to look for conflicts, enough will come your way on their own.

Sophon

[Maestro]

…

I have no problem with that. As I have already stated twice now, first-page info was taken over a year ago when I first moved in…

First-page info is not enough. Please read this earlier post in this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2321094

But I guess when you’re on a crusade you are blind to everything else.

--

Maestro