Uk Cancel Thaksin's Visa And Wife's

[Plus]

I excpect her next port of call to be Thailand, not the UK.

I might be wrong, but wouldn't that be great?

She'll recieve pardon in no time, maybe a quick glance at the prison cell and that's it.

[Thai at Heart]

I excpect her next port of call to be Thailand, not the UK.

I might be wrong, but wouldn't that be great?

She'll recieve pardon in no time, maybe a quick glance at the prison cell and that's it.

I agree with this completely.

[mc2]

I excpect her next port of call to be Thailand, not the UK.

I might be wrong, but wouldn't that be great?

She'll recieve pardon in no time, maybe a quick glance at the prison cell and that's it.

could be right, december 4th is a big day for pardons.

if it happened like that it would help the national reconcilliation - no one, even the most rabid ant-thaksin fans could argue with a pardon.

Edited November 16, 2008 by mc2

[frodo]

I could be wrong on this, but isn't a pardon granted for those who have served time already? She hasn't served a single second of time yet. She's still a criminal and still a fugitive on the run and has yet to answer for her crimes here. I still doubt she'll be able to return to the UK given her criminal record much like others who had served their time and were denied entry. No sympathy here.

[rixalex]

if it happened like that it would help the national reconcilliation - no one, even the most rabid ant-thaksin fans could argue with a pardon.

Pardons are given for good behaviour, for showing remorse, for being rehabilitated... on what grounds do either one of them qualify?

[Thai at Heart]

I could be wrong on this, but isn't a pardon granted for those who have served time already? She hasn't served a single second of time yet. She's still a criminal and still a fugitive on the run and has yet to answer for her crimes here. I still doubt she'll be able to return to the UK given her criminal record much like others who had served their time and were denied entry. No sympathy here.

One minute would be all it could take. The beauty and concept of pardons is that they are absolutely discretionary. A granted pardon would rehabilitate her status for visas (please correct me if wrong) and get her back into Thailand. Her conduct thereafter, would be of great importance for the future stability of the country.

[Kerryd]

It's almost laughable to even think about a pardon, for either of them. I highly doubt either of them thinks they would have much success in getting one any ways.

As mentioned, they are convicts fleeing the sentences handed down by Thai courts. Not only that, there are still outstanding court cases against at least one of them.

Imagine the "egg on the face" if a pardon (for current convictions) was granted, only to have one or both of them convicted and sentenced to prison (again) on different charges ?

There's no hope in a hot spot that they will be given "blanket pardons" covering all past, present and future offenses, so chances are they could still end up going to prison if they ever return.

[mc2]

if it happened like that it would help the national reconcilliation - no one, even the most rabid ant-thaksin fans could argue with a pardon.

Pardons are given for good behaviour, for showing remorse, for being rehabilitated... on what grounds do either one of them qualify?

Grounds of national reconciliation - to help the country move on.

but these type of concepts are alien to the rabid anti-thaksin mobs who just thinking about a lynching.

[ratcatcher]

Given the status of "The Pardoner" in the Kingdom, is it likely that this could happen?

[frodo]

What good would a pardon possibly serve? In the short-run, national reconciliation perhaps, but I doubt it. In the long-run it would continue to complicate Thailand's progress. The only message that will send is that it is fine to be corrupt, it is acceptable for a privileged few who have been convicted of crimes to go on the run knowing that they will be pardoned. It's been mentioned before that when the courts, by one vote, acquitted him, the courts were fair and impartial. Now that he's been found guilty, they are corrupt. He can't have it both ways. He and his wife are guilty and must do their time. Nothing rabid about that. Fair is fair. Thaksin wanted to give the impression that he was for the poor which turning out to be rubbish. The poor and non-privileged do their time and don't get the luxuries afforded of being able to travel while being a convicted criminal facing jail terms. For a man that is so wrapped in pro-democracy, he certainly doesn't show it through his actions.

[Thai at Heart]

What good would a pardon possibly serve? In the short-run, national reconciliation perhaps, but I doubt it. In the long-run it would continue to complicate Thailand's progress. The only message that will send is that it is fine to be corrupt, it is acceptable for a privileged few who have been convicted of crimes to go on the run knowing that they will be pardoned. It's been mentioned before that when the courts, by one vote, acquitted him, the courts were fair and impartial. Now that he's been found guilty, they are corrupt. He can't have it both ways. He and his wife are guilty and must do their time. Nothing rabid about that. Fair is fair. Thaksin wanted to give the impression that he was for the poor which turning out to be rubbish. The poor and non-privileged do their time and don't get the luxuries afforded of being able to travel while being a convicted criminal facing jail terms. For a man that is so wrapped in pro-democracy, he certainly doesn't show it through his actions.

I think it is far more complex than that, but unfortunately cannot be discussed due to forum rules.

[mc2]

What good would a pardon possibly serve? In the short-run, national reconciliation perhaps, but I doubt it. In the long-run it would continue to complicate Thailand's progress. The only message that will send is that it is fine to be corrupt, it is acceptable for a privileged few who have been convicted of crimes to go on the run knowing that they will be pardoned. It's been mentioned before that when the courts, by one vote, acquitted him, the courts were fair and impartial. Now that he's been found guilty, they are corrupt. He can't have it both ways. He and his wife are guilty and must do their time. Nothing rabid about that. Fair is fair. Thaksin wanted to give the impression that he was for the poor which turning out to be rubbish. The poor and non-privileged do their time and don't get the luxuries afforded of being able to travel while being a convicted criminal facing jail terms. For a man that is so wrapped in pro-democracy, he certainly doesn't show it through his actions.

most likely there would be strings attached.

[Plus]

Pojamarn has only been convicted for tax evasion. What she wants is to escape prison, which is fairly easy.

Divorcing Thaksin and coming back to beg forgiveness and mercy is a pretty good reason to commute her sentence to suspended or something.

It's not an complete flip flop for her - she has been very consistent with her attempts to come back, this latest one might just work. Timing is great.

The details and conditions will be worked out before she flies back, she'd just have to do her part and appear genuinely sorry on TV, that's all.

Thaksin will be left out in the cold, but with similar options still open.

[Thai at Heart]

Pojamarn has only been convicted for tax evasion. What she wants is to escape prison, which is fairly easy.

Divorcing Thaksin and coming back to beg forgiveness and mercy is a pretty good reason to commute her sentence to suspended or something.

It's not an complete flip flop for her - she has been very consistent with her attempts to come back, this latest one might just work. Timing is great.

The details and conditions will be worked out before she flies back, she'd just have to do her part and appear genuinely sorry on TV, that's all.

Thaksin will be left out in the cold, but with similar options still open.

Exactamundo

[Kerryd]

I don't see how granting a pardon (for either or both of them) would have any effect on "national reconciliation". More likely to create further divisions in the country.

Can you imagine it ? A man who was duly tried, convicted and sentenced, flees the country to avoid prison, gets a pardon without doing a minute of time behind bars, and then is allowed to waltz back into the country to carry on business as before. And that is going to reconcile the country ?

And if the wife were to be given a pardon, how would that "reconcile" the country ? By allowing her (and her billions) back into the country to foment more problems ?

Who thinks that groups like PAD (and others) would just quietly accept this ?

Not to mention what kind of image that would create of Thailand in the eyes of the world.

And anyone who thinks that Thaksin (et al) would adhere to any "strings attached" is naive. The man who previously said he was through with politics has blatantly shown otherwise. The man who had faith in the Thai justice system (when he thought he could bribe it) and then months later determined the system was unfair (when his bribery attempts failed).

If anything, there should be an Interpol Warrant issued for his arrest, not a pardon. Put the cuffs on him, put him in prison and after he has served 50% or more of his sentence, then apply for a pardon. He should also be slapped with a lifetime ban from politics, and any attempt to circumvent that should see the pardon revoke and him back in prison.

Of course, should he be found guilty and sentenced to additional prison terms for the other charges he faces, then any chance of a pardon would have to wait until he did at least 50% of the additional time.

This man is not a "saviour". He is not a "champion of the people". He is not going to reconcile the current problems (except perhaps, by trying to "eliminate" them). He is in fact, a root cause of the problems. How would pardoning him and letting him back in the country change anything ?

[old wanderer]

Go back and review the conviction and the lecture the judge gave to her......He lit into her for a lengthy period about how she should have set an example, and it was not about just tax evasion but forgery as well, why do you think her brother and personal secretary were sentenced as well....

[rixalex]

I don't see how granting a pardon (for either or both of them) would have any effect on "national reconciliation". More likely to create further divisions in the country.

Can you imagine it ? A man who was duly tried, convicted and sentenced, flees the country to avoid prison, gets a pardon without doing a minute of time behind bars, and then is allowed to waltz back into the country to carry on business as before. And that is going to reconcile the country ?

And if the wife were to be given a pardon, how would that "reconcile" the country ? By allowing her (and her billions) back into the country to foment more problems ?

Who thinks that groups like PAD (and others) would just quietly accept this ?

Not to mention what kind of image that would create of Thailand in the eyes of the world.

And anyone who thinks that Thaksin (et al) would adhere to any "strings attached" is naive. The man who previously said he was through with politics has blatantly shown otherwise. The man who had faith in the Thai justice system (when he thought he could bribe it) and then months later determined the system was unfair (when his bribery attempts failed).

If anything, there should be an Interpol Warrant issued for his arrest, not a pardon. Put the cuffs on him, put him in prison and after he has served 50% or more of his sentence, then apply for a pardon. He should also be slapped with a lifetime ban from politics, and any attempt to circumvent that should see the pardon revoke and him back in prison.

Of course, should he be found guilty and sentenced to additional prison terms for the other charges he faces, then any chance of a pardon would have to wait until he did at least 50% of the additional time.

This man is not a "saviour". He is not a "champion of the people". He is not going to reconcile the current problems (except perhaps, by trying to "eliminate" them). He is in fact, a root cause of the problems. How would pardoning him and letting him back in the country change anything ?

You are 100% correct in everything you say.

The only people who are in favour of giving him and his ex a pardon are those like MC2 who, like the great man himself, remain defiant and unrepentant, and would love nothing more than to see him get off scot-free on the pretence of "for the good of the country".

[mc2]

I don't see how granting a pardon (for either or both of them) would have any effect on "national reconciliation". More likely to create further divisions in the country.

Can you imagine it ? A man who was duly tried, convicted and sentenced, flees the country to avoid prison, gets a pardon without doing a minute of time behind bars, and then is allowed to waltz back into the country to carry on business as before. And that is going to reconcile the country ?

And if the wife were to be given a pardon, how would that "reconcile" the country ? By allowing her (and her billions) back into the country to foment more problems ?

Who thinks that groups like PAD (and others) would just quietly accept this ?

Not to mention what kind of image that would create of Thailand in the eyes of the world.

And anyone who thinks that Thaksin (et al) would adhere to any "strings attached" is naive. The man who previously said he was through with politics has blatantly shown otherwise. The man who had faith in the Thai justice system (when he thought he could bribe it) and then months later determined the system was unfair (when his bribery attempts failed).

If anything, there should be an Interpol Warrant issued for his arrest, not a pardon. Put the cuffs on him, put him in prison and after he has served 50% or more of his sentence, then apply for a pardon. He should also be slapped with a lifetime ban from politics, and any attempt to circumvent that should see the pardon revoke and him back in prison.

Of course, should he be found guilty and sentenced to additional prison terms for the other charges he faces, then any chance of a pardon would have to wait until he did at least 50% of the additional time.

This man is not a "saviour". He is not a "champion of the people". He is not going to reconcile the current problems (except perhaps, by trying to "eliminate" them). He is in fact, a root cause of the problems. How would pardoning him and letting him back in the country change anything ?

You are 100% correct in everything you say.

The only people who are in favour of giving him and his ex a pardon are those like MC2 who, like the great man himself, remain defiant and unrepentant, and would love nothing more than to see him get off scot-free on the pretence of "for the good of the country".

If it does happen, it certainly wont be handed to him on a platter.

[ratcatcher]

From a legal standpoint, the Thai justice system could throw the proverbial"book" at him.

He is guilty of fraud, perjury, jumping bail, lying, ordering extra judicial killings, bribery, etc etc,, the list goes on but you get the point......?

There are thousands of Thais in jail at this very moment doing time for petty crimes and they received longer sentences than Thaksin.

He is a coward and a petulant bully who uses the sympathy card to great effect on the masses who worship him. Watching him in action when he returned to Thailand earlier this year he was grovelling and waiing anything that moved.

Surely no-one in Thailand with half a brain can honestly expect him to come back and serve no jail time.

IF however he did some time, offered to donate 50 percent of his "hidden wealth" to social causes, he would become an instant hero, particularly among some of his doubters. And after doing all that, he would still be a wealthy man with enough money for several lifetimes.

However he should never be allowed back into politics. He's just too controversial.

But, Thaksin moves in mysterious ways and if he pushes this too far, he may end up as another entry in the police department body count statistics.

He may be powerful (at least in his own mind) but there are also many more powerful figures within Thailand who would like to shut him up.....for good.

[animatic]

His head is being handed to him on a platter so far,

anything would be an improvement.

[jdinasia]

I excpect her next port of call to be Thailand, not the UK.

I might be wrong, but wouldn't that be great?

She'll recieve pardon in no time, maybe a quick glance at the prison cell and that's it.

could be right, december 4th is a big day for pardons.

if it happened like that it would help the national reconcilliation - no one, even the most rabid ant-thaksin fans could argue with a pardon.

Actually most academics, judges, lawyers, people that believe that being a fugitive from the courts is bad, accountants, farmers, business people, etc etc etc could argue with a pardon in the case of a woman that has shown blatant contempt of court and the legal process could argue that a pardon would be bad.

Edited November 16, 2008 by jdinasia

[rixalex]

IF however he did some time, offered to donate 50 percent of his "hidden wealth" to social causes, he would become an instant hero, particularly among some of his doubters. And after doing all that, he would still be a wealthy man with enough money for several lifetimes.

This is absolutely true. If he did this, he could so easily avoid facing justice, but this sort of option has been open to him since he began his career in politics, and he's never taken it, for what one can only assume to be reasons of greed.

Take when he was first elected as PM. He could have put his business interests to one side and worked for the good of the country. He could have served his time in office, and then left politics to return to business. He would have still been a wealthy man and what's more he would have been a hero with a lasting legacy. Instead he chose to use his time to amass further wealth for him and his family.

When it came to light that he had sold some of his business interests without paying tax, once again he could have turned things around with ease simply by saying that although he felt he had done nothing wrong, he was going to donate a large sum to a charity. All would have been forgiven and forgotten in an instant.

And even now, having done so much wrong and having put the country into such a mess, he could so easily win enough favour to avoid justice just by showing humility and using his still considerable power and wealth to do good (by that i mean actually doing good, not just being seen to do it).

It all really makes you wonder just how intelligent the man is that he has never taken any of these options that ultimately would have actually made him all the more powerful and wealthy; two things which obviously come close to his heart.

[Plus]

Pojamarn has only ONE legal problem - tax evasion. She gets pardoned for this, it's over.

Thaksin has a lot more to answer, there's no possibility of one blank pardon to cover it all.

In terms of reconciliation, letting Pojamarn back in will surely won't make situation any worse. She commands respect of legions of ex-TRT politicians, if she can sway Northern faction + Bangkok to abandon fight - who's left with Thaksin? Is he going to turn to Newin to mobilise crowds after giving a cold shoulder just two months ago? Newin himself is at odds with Isan Pattana - the only faciton that is ideologically close to Thaksin and would support him through thin and thick.

If she can persuade Yongyuth and Yawopa - Thaksin's revolution is as good as over.

Will PAD accept it? If she really abandons Thaksin - sure they will.

[ratcatcher]

Pojamarn has only ONE legal problem - tax evasion. She gets pardoned for this, it's over.

Thaksin has a lot more to answer, there's no possibility of one blank pardon to cover it all.

In terms of reconciliation, letting Pojamarn back in will surely won't make situation any worse. She commands respect of legions of ex-TRT politicians, if she can sway Northern faction + Bangkok to abandon fight - who's left with Thaksin? Is he going to turn to Newin to mobilise crowds after giving a cold shoulder just two months ago? Newin himself is at odds with Isan Pattana - the only faciton that is ideologically close to Thaksin and would support him through thin and thick.

If she can persuade Yongyuth and Yawopa - Thaksin's revolution is as good as over.

Will PAD accept it? If she really abandons Thaksin - sure they will.

So, are we to believe that this divorce is not a"financial arrangement" but a definite parting of the ways. Surely we aren't to believe she's hanging him out to dry?

This is starting to sound like something William Shakespeare might have created.

[sriracha john]

the not-so-subtle differences between yellow-shirts and red-shirts...

Burning effigies today

Some 150 pro-Thaksin protesters rallied on Friday in front of UK Embassy in Bangkok, condemning the country for revoking Thaksin's visa.

Wearing red shirts, they burnt effigies of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Foreign Secretary of State David Miliband to show their anger after UK revoked visas of Thaksin and his wife Pojaman.

About 150 police were deployed to provide security at the embassy.

The protesters showed banners which read, "Why the United Kingdom which is icon of democracy revoke Thaksins' visa?," and "Why the United Kingdom did not respect the UN Conventions."

All Hail Britannia...

Edited November 16, 2008 by sriracha john

[ratcatcher]

the not-so-subtle differences between yellow-shirts and red-shirts...

Burning effigies today

Some 150 pro-Thaksin protesters rallied on Friday in front of UK Embassy in Bangkok, condemning the country for revoking Thaksin's visa.

Wearing red shirts, they burnt effigies of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Foreign Secretary of State David Miliband to show their anger after UK revoked visas of Thaksin and his wife Pojaman.

About 150 police were deployed to provide security at the embassy.

The protesters showed banners which read, "Why the United Kingdom which is icon of democracy revoke Thaksins' visa?," and "Why the United Kingdom did not respect the UN Conventions."

All Hail Britannia...

Just simple bumpkins having fun. Did they bring wieners?

Edited November 16, 2008 by ratcatcher

[mc2]

I excpect her next port of call to be Thailand, not the UK.

I might be wrong, but wouldn't that be great?

She'll recieve pardon in no time, maybe a quick glance at the prison cell and that's it.

could be right, december 4th is a big day for pardons.

if it happened like that it would help the national reconcilliation - no one, even the most rabid ant-thaksin fans could argue with a pardon.

Actually most academics, judges, lawyers, people that believe that being a fugitive from the courts is bad, accountants, farmers, business people, etc etc etc could argue with a pardon in the case of a woman that has shown blatant contempt of court and the legal process could argue that a pardon would be bad.

well its not a topic for discussion

[Slip]

Pojamarn has only ONE legal problem - tax evasion. She gets pardoned for this, it's over.

Thaksin has a lot more to answer, there's no possibility of one blank pardon to cover it all.

In terms of reconciliation, letting Pojamarn back in will surely won't make situation any worse. She commands respect of legions of ex-TRT politicians, if she can sway Northern faction + Bangkok to abandon fight - who's left with Thaksin? Is he going to turn to Newin to mobilise crowds after giving a cold shoulder just two months ago? Newin himself is at odds with Isan Pattana - the only faciton that is ideologically close to Thaksin and would support him through thin and thick.

If she can persuade Yongyuth and Yawopa - Thaksin's revolution is as good as over.

Will PAD accept it? If she really abandons Thaksin - sure they will.

So, are we to believe that this divorce is not a"financial arrangement" but a definite parting of the ways. Surely we aren't to believe she's hanging him out to dry?

This is starting to sound like something William Shakespeare might have created.

Lol just wait for the murders to start- I don't know which is more apt - et tu Brute? or C-C-C_Caliban the beast (sorry can't remember a quote from him).

Edited November 16, 2008 by Slip

[jdinasia]

I excpect her next port of call to be Thailand, not the UK.

I might be wrong, but wouldn't that be great?

She'll recieve pardon in no time, maybe a quick glance at the prison cell and that's it.

could be right, december 4th is a big day for pardons.

if it happened like that it would help the national reconcilliation - no one, even the most rabid ant-thaksin fans could argue with a pardon.

Actually most academics, judges, lawyers, people that believe that being a fugitive from the courts is bad, accountants, farmers, business people, etc etc etc could argue with a pardon in the case of a woman that has shown blatant contempt of court and the legal process could argue that a pardon would be bad.

well its not a topic for discussion

Then why did you bring it up?

basically your whole premise is just wrong.

[mc2]

I excpect her next port of call to be Thailand, not the UK.

I might be wrong, but wouldn't that be great?

She'll recieve pardon in no time, maybe a quick glance at the prison cell and that's it.

could be right, december 4th is a big day for pardons.

if it happened like that it would help the national reconcilliation - no one, even the most rabid ant-thaksin fans could argue with a pardon.

Actually most academics, judges, lawyers, people that believe that being a fugitive from the courts is bad, accountants, farmers, business people, etc etc etc could argue with a pardon in the case of a woman that has shown blatant contempt of court and the legal process could argue that a pardon would be bad.

well its not a topic for discussion

Then why did you bring it up?

My comment was directed at your "actually most academics... etc" reply.

As a side note, I didn't bring the topic up.

please keep up.

basically your whole premise is just wrong.

I shouldn't have to ask... but .... why ?

On second thoughts, I don't care.

*sigh*