Menopause

[toybits]

Sometimes, it is difficult to sift through your wife's emotions to find out whether her complaints are legit or just brought about by menopause. Men - Beware!!! Your wife might be on the verge of becoming a menopause monster!!!

[FBN]

No here is an interesting topic. Would be great to hear from female members, who have gone through or who are experiencing this, what symptoms they had/have and how they dealt with it.

I heard one woman complain once that some of the hot flushes felt like someone was switching on little lights just under the skin of her extremities.. (Try to imagine the poor physician trying to figure that one out!!)

We men never get a fair deal, do we? I mean first it is pre-menstrual tension, then period blues/psychosis and ovulation emotional states and just when we get to deal with this then menopause strikes...

[sbk]

My mother had a horrendous menopause, she had been put on hormones after a radical hysterectomy and then when she was diagnosed with estrogen sensitive breast cancer, was taken off the hormones. Instant and total menopause.

She found that substantially increasing the soy in her diet helped somewhat. From soy milk to tofu. She did alot of research into herbal remedies, but soy seemed to work the best. That and time, unfortunately.

[toybits]

If you listen to a menopausal person going through her rant about how bad you are - you would really think that you are a monster. Then you sit back and reflect about what was said and you realize - awww I'm not thaaaat baaaad. Then it kicks in - ahhhh! That wasn't her speaking. That was her hormone imbalance kicking in...

Its just rather disturbing because if you let it under your skin, grrrrrr....

sure would love to hear from the fairer sex...

[toybits]

some plants are rich in phytoestrogen. Soybeans may be one of them.

My mother had a horrendous menopause, she had been put on hormones after a radical hysterectomy and then when she was diagnosed with estrogen sensitive breast cancer, was taken off the hormones. Instant and total menopause.

She found that substantially increasing the soy in her diet helped somewhat. From soy milk to tofu. She did alot of research into herbal remedies, but soy seemed to work the best. That and time, unfortunately.

[Sheryl]

For me, and I think for many women (altho not all), the menopause itself wasn't bad, in fact it was a relief because it brought the end of the peri-menopause which was serious hel_l on wheels. In my case, almost 15 years of it. Developed very bad PMS (now known as pre-menstrual dysphasic disorder) after turning 40, never had it before and it took me a while to figure out what was happening and why I was at times a complete raging lunatic with no control and then other times back to completely normal. Once I made the connection, treated first with natural progesterone which helped but did not fully relive it, then added Zoloft after studies came out showing its effectiveness for PMDD. The combination of the 2 kept me from homicidal mania and, while I could still feel the difference pre-menstrually (i.e. low-grade irritiation and just not happy) it was no longer apparent to others or affecting my actions. Easily stopped the meds once past the menopause.

Unrelated to cycle were night sweats and, as the actual menopause grew nearer, sometimes flashes/sweats in the day. I used a natural (bioidentical) estrogen in gel form and found it possible to control those symptoms with only a fraction of the recommnended does, hear the same from many other women. Before going through this I had debated the pros and cons and was leaning against taking supplemental estrogen. A few sleepless sweat-soaked nights (despite maximum A/C) threw that idea straight out the window.....

Once through the menopause easily tapetred off the estrogen, progesterone and zoloft.

BTW in terms of hormone replacement, it's progesterone that helps the "crazies", not estrogen. But it's the estrogen that helps the hot flashes and night sweats.

most Thai doctors are unfamiliar with the use of natural (bioidentical) hormone replacement and will prescribe a synthetioc progestin plus premarin (horse estrogen). The sysnthetic progestins are very bad news and will often make the mood swings much, much worse. It is also hypothesized that they may have accounted for the negative health effects found in the long term study recently released on HRT. As a result pharmaceutical companies are finally starting to produce natural l progesterone . Women have long known the advantages of it and it has been available in Europe for many years but only recently did a US brand come out...and regrettably it is still hard to soem by in Thailand (natural estrogen no problem). This has been extensively discussed several times i nthe Ladies Forum if you are interetsed.

As to what it feels like: the "crazies" is sort of like every single nerve fiber in your body was frayed and being rubbed with sandpaper. Loss of control over emotions and actions, almost like being posessed. In addition to the anger and other mood problems, decision-making (even minor decisions) becaomes extremely difficult or even impossible and a\the need to decide anything produces great irritation. When it passes, it's like a black surtain was suddently lifted away and you are back to yourslef agaibn. As for the hot flashes, they feel...hot. Hiot and very stuffy/sweaty like being pacjed into a crowded, unventilated subway care on the hottest day of August. And the night sweats wreck havoc with your sleep.

The above is what it's like untreated. With judicious amounts of natural estrogen and progesterone, preferrably in gekl form to allow fine tuning of dosage, and an SSRI if there is PMDD, it's manageable. (But still a great relief when finally over!)

A woman using natural estrogen and progesterone will rapidly learn to tell when and how much is needed, and it is not the same amount every day (understandably since the whole point is that hormone levels are wildly flunctuating). However important to be sure to have at least 5 days each month off the hormones.

As I said, several past threads can be found in the Ladies Forum.

[toybits]

Too bad discussions about Menopause were place in the ladies thread. This is clearly a man's problem as well...

You should also educate the men so that they will know how to deal with it and not make it worse by feeding more fuel to the fire.

Happened to me lots of times - when I thought I was being mercilessly abused by my wife and had to say something to in my defence against what I thought were groundless accusations against me.

So there is a medical aspect to Menopause - how to treat it or reduce its effects and a relationship aspect to dealing with Menopause - that is - how husbands should react when their wives are going through their thing...

For me, and I think for many women (altho not all), the menopause itself wasn't bad, in fact it was a relief because it brought the end of the peri-menopause which was serious hel_l on wheels. In my case, almost 15 years of it. Developed very bad PMS (now known as pre-menstrual dysphasic disorder) after turning 40, never had it before and it took me a while to figure out what was happening and why I was at times a complete raging lunatic with no control and then other times back to completely normal. Once I made the connection, treated first with natural progesterone which helped but did not fully relive it, then added Zoloft after studies came out showing its effectiveness for PMDD. The combination of the 2 kept me from homicidal mania and, while I could still feel the difference pre-menstrually (i.e. low-grade irritiation and just not happy) it was no longer apparent to others or affecting my actions. Easily stopped the meds once past the menopause.

Unrelated to cycle were night sweats and, as the actual menopause grew nearer, sometimes flashes/sweats in the day. I used a natural (bioidentical) estrogen in gel form and found it possible to control those symptoms with only a fraction of the recommnended does, hear the same from many other women. Before going through this I had debated the pros and cons and was leaning against taking supplemental estrogen. A few sleepless sweat-soaked nights (despite maximum A/C) threw that idea straight out the window.....

Once through the menopause easily tapetred off the estrogen, progesterone and zoloft.

BTW in terms of hormone replacement, it's progesterone that helps the "crazies", not estrogen. But it's the estrogen that helps the hot flashes and night sweats.

most Thai doctors are unfamiliar with the use of natural (bioidentical) hormone replacement and will prescribe a synthetioc progestin plus premarin (horse estrogen). The sysnthetic progestins are very bad news and will often make the mood swings much, much worse. It is also hypothesized that they may have accounted for the negative health effects found in the long term study recently released on HRT. As a result pharmaceutical companies are finally starting to produce natural l progesterone . Women have long known the advantages of it and it has been available in Europe for many years but only recently did a US brand come out...and regrettably it is still hard to soem by in Thailand (natural estrogen no problem). This has been extensively discussed several times i nthe Ladies Forum if you are interetsed.

As to what it feels like: the "crazies" is sort of like every single nerve fiber in your body was frayed and being rubbed with sandpaper. Loss of control over emotions and actions, almost like being posessed. In addition to the anger and other mood problems, decision-making (even minor decisions) becaomes extremely difficult or even impossible and a\the need to decide anything produces great irritation. When it passes, it's like a black surtain was suddently lifted away and you are back to yourslef agaibn. As for the hot flashes, they feel...hot. Hiot and very stuffy/sweaty like being pacjed into a crowded, unventilated subway care on the hottest day of August. And the night sweats wreck havoc with your sleep.

The above is what it's like untreated. With judicious amounts of natural estrogen and progesterone, preferrably in gekl form to allow fine tuning of dosage, and an SSRI if there is PMDD, it's manageable. (But still a great relief when finally over!)

A woman using natural estrogen and progesterone will rapidly learn to tell when and how much is needed, and it is not the same amount every day (understandably since the whole point is that hormone levels are wildly flunctuating). However important to be sure to have at least 5 days each month off the hormones.

As I said, several past threads can be found in the Ladies Forum.

[toybits]

Just wondering if the stress brought about by menopause could cause husbands to stray and seek solace elsewhere? I have certainly entertained this idea...

[sbk]

Guess I don't understand your point, this thread and others were not placed in the Ladies forum. Threads about menopause were started in the Ladies forum by women. Men are free to join in if they can remain polite.

As for how men can deal with it, well, I suppose straying is one solution to your problem but certainly doesn't show an understanding or care of the difficulties your wife is facing.

Just curious, if the shoe were on the other foot and you had a serious medical condition that made you hard to live with, would you understand if your wife strayed?

(and no, I am not flaming, I am seriously interested.)

[toybits]

Now that provoked a reaction. Good. The reason is that - I believe men are not prepared to deal with menopause. Menopause creeps up from behind and hits you on your head. Even the wife doesn't know what is happening until perhaps much later when the talks about her experience with close friends who might tell her that the wife is probably groing through menopause.

It is easy to confuse a ligitimate complaint from your wife. Sometimes it starts that way and then just snowballs into a major complaint about things that happened 20 years ago. There is no clear cut boundary between a legit complaint to a husband and a menopause rant.

Husbands can become frustrated and think that their wife is going crazy on them - which could a cause for them to go astray. I hope this clears it up a bit.

Yes this could be placed in the ladies forum but I feel that men should also know more about what you women are going through. That's what you want isn't it? Or are we wrong again? heh heh....

Guess I don't understand your point, this thread and others were not placed in the Ladies forum. Threads about menopause were started in the Ladies forum by women. Men are free to join in if they can remain polite.

As for how men can deal with it, well, I suppose straying is one solution to your problem but certainly doesn't show an understanding or care of the difficulties your wife is facing.

Just curious, if the shoe were on the other foot and you had a serious medical condition that made you hard to live with, would you understand if your wife strayed?

(and no, I am not flaming, I am seriously interested.)

[sbk]

I didn't start the thread, you did, so what I want is immaterial

No, I do see your point, and how, if the menopause is undiagnosed (ie wife doesn't even realize its happening and thinks she's just going crazy) it could damage the relationship. I would hope that a husband who is aware of what the issue really is, however, could show some thoughtfulness and consideration for a woman who is going through a very difficult time.

I am (hopefully!) too young for menopause, but like I said, I watched my mother go through a very difficult time with hers. Of course, she knew what the cause of all her symptoms was, we all did, and was having to deal with breast cancer and radiation therapy at the same time, so the added stress was incredible.

But, she found that knowing what the problem was helped her to deal with it better and she learned meditation and calming techniques to help overcome the emotional swings as well.

[Patsycat]

I've only just started on the night sweats and sort of funny feelings during the day - no periods for at least 18 months. So will probably be right in there in a few months. Mood swings are ok - but i do get pissed off about little things. go off on a tangent for about five minutes and then calm arrives back again.

Good advice, as always, Sheryl!!! Shall be looking into it.

[toybits]

About your question below - most mem would not consider this as a serious medical condition. A case of hormonal imbalance perhaps but not something requiring hospitalization.

I don't mean to be insensitive but that is what I think. If it is difficult for her, it is also difficult for us.

You want us to hold you, hug you, give you support. How do women expect their husbands to do that when what their husbands get is a vicious tongue lashing?

Guess I don't understand your point, this thread and others were not placed in the Ladies forum. Threads about menopause were started in the Ladies forum by women. Men are free to join in if they can remain polite.

As for how men can deal with it, well, I suppose straying is one solution to your problem but certainly doesn't show an understanding or care of the difficulties your wife is facing.

Just curious, if the shoe were on the other foot and you had a serious medical condition that made you hard to live with, would you understand if your wife strayed?

(and no, I am not flaming, I am seriously interested.)

Edited November 14, 2008 by toybits

[Sheryl]

Rest assurred, from one who has been through it, if your wife is being crazy belligerent to the point where it's making you miserable, she is feeling 10 ten times worse herself. And odfds are that the outburst are just the tip of the iceberg compared to what she is managing to keep bottled up.

Many Thai women are not well informed about menopause.

Wait until she's having a good day and then bring up the subject mentioning that there are medications that can relieve the symptoms. Phrase it in terms of concern for how unhappy she seems to be at times rather than how hard it is for you to live with (at least initially).

BTW the OTC preparations are:

1) Estrogen:

Oestrogel (a bioidentical estrogen gel) - comes with a measuring applicator but most women get relief with a fraction as much

Climera (same thing but in a patch form -- half the full patch is plenty for many women)

2) Progesterone:

Utrogestan, an oral form, not ideal but the gel (Progestogel) altho still o nthe drug list seems to have vanished from the shelves.

She should see a gynecologist and get a Pap smear if she hasn't had one recently (most Thai women do not get them regulalry if at all) before staring these.

Dr. Partsri at Bangkok Hospital Anti-Aging Clinic is conversant with HRT using bioidentical products.

Dr Anong Lekagul at Bumrungrad Hospital (female) has been recommeneded by a TV member as good at explaining and talking to patients about menopause, she may however tend to prescribe synmthetics (most Thai doctors do) in which case should specifically request bioidenticial.

I'm assuming, of course, that your wife is indeed going through the menopause. If there is any doubt on that, a simple blood test (FSH) can tell.

[FBN]

Just wondering if the stress brought about by menopause could cause husbands to stray and seek solace elsewhere? I have certainly entertained this idea...

You may just need to reconsider your risk assessment of this particular option...

Let me see, you have a partner who is unstable, at times homicidal and you would consider this alternative as a potential solution??

Seriously,

I think the most important to realise here is that this is a treatable condition. It has to be recognised as early as possible and managed before a relationship deteriorates to such a point where communication fails. Easier said than done, I am sure but both partners should be alert and aware of the early signs which may be very subtle.

Age is an important factor; so is family history. The chances are if your mother had a "naturally" early menopause, that you will too..

Insomnia, "brittle" emotional states, depression, fatigue, lack of drive are usually there before any of the phisical signs manifest but they are not specific or easy to recognise; especially for the sufferer.

[toybits]

I am not a philandering husband. I have to wonderful boys that keep me from becoming one. Entertaining the idea of seeking solace elsewhere when a husband is also under stress is not unique to me. I believe all husbands that are in my position will have their own coping mechanism. Mine has been to take cover and let the storm blow over.

Now - how many husbands actually know what is going on? As has been mentioned by Sheryl, many Thai women are not even aware of this. I believe that sometimes, women who are aware of menopause are not aware when the menopause rant kicks in.

Just wondering if the stress brought about by menopause could cause husbands to stray and seek solace elsewhere? I have certainly entertained this idea...

You may just need to reconsider your risk assessment of this particular option...

Let me see, you have a partner who is unstable, at times homicidal and you would consider this alternative as a potential solution??

Seriously,

I think the most important to realise here is that this is a treatable condition. It has to be recognised as early as possible and managed before a relationship deteriorates to such a point where communication fails. Easier said than done, I am sure but both partners should be alert and aware of the early signs which may be very subtle.

Age is an important factor; so is family history. The chances are if your mother had a "naturally" early menopause, that you will too..

Insomnia, "brittle" emotional states, depression, fatigue, lack of drive are usually there before any of the phisical signs manifest but they are not specific or easy to recognise; especially for the sufferer.

[Sheryl]

They are aware of the rant, believe me. What you are seeing/hearing is just the outer manifestation of much internal suffering.

But they may not be aware that it is due to the menopause. In fact, many secretly fear they are losing their minds. And may try all the harder to convince themslves it's someone else's fault in order to keep that fear at bay.

How is your wife's English? There are some good books for women about this.

She needs to learn about the condition and seel tretament. It doesn't have to be this way....