ทั้งนั้น Thang Nan

[Neeranam]

Hi

Can anyone tell me the differnce between ทั้งนั้น "thang nan" and หมดเลย "mot loei"?

Cheers

Neeranam

[RamdomChances]

Thang nan - means all the same

Mot loei- means all finnished

But sometime the use can be simular sort of

Tam mot loei- do everything

Tam tang nan- do all the same

I think!! I daresay one of the others will give you a fuller explanation, I know what I mean but cant think how to write it. This is why I'm a farmer not a teacher

[Firefoxx]

ไม่มีอะไรทั้งนั้น: There is nothing (happening, here) at all (can be replaced with ทั้งสิ้น)

ห้ามเอาอะไรไปทั้งนั้น: You are forbidden to take anything at all (same as above)

ทั้งนี้ทั้งนั้นทางเจ้าของบ้านก็ต้องรับผิดชอบเรื่องค่าเสียหาย: Even so the owner of the house must pay the damages.

พิซซ่าก็ดี แฮมเบอร์เกอร์ก็อร่อย ทั้งนี้ทั้งนั้น การเลือกก็ขึ้นอยู่กับความชอบส่วนตัว: Pizzas are good and hamburgers are tasty, even so the choice depends on personal preferences.

เอาไปให้หมดเลย: Take it all.

คุณมีสิทธิ์เป็นเจ้าของที่ดินทั้งหมดเลย: You have the chance to become the owner of all the land.

Basically, it's "at all" and "all". They're not interchangeable.

[Neeranam]

ไม่มีอะไรทั้งนั้น: There is nothing (happening, here) at all (can be replaced with ทั้งสิ้น)

ห้ามเอาอะไรไปทั้งนั้น: You are forbidden to take anything at all (same as above)

ทั้งนี้ทั้งนั้นทางเจ้าของบ้านก็ต้องรับผิดชอบเรื่องค่าเสียหาย: Even so the owner of the house must pay the damages.

พิซซ่าก็ดี แฮมเบอร์เกอร์ก็อร่อย ทั้งนี้ทั้งนั้น การเลือกก็ขึ้นอยู่กับความชอบส่วนตัว: Pizzas are good and hamburgers are tasty, even so the choice depends on personal preferences.

เอาไปให้หมดเลย: Take it all.

คุณมีสิทธิ์เป็นเจ้าของที่ดินทั้งหมดเลย: You have the chance to become the owner of all the land.

Basically, it's "at all" and "all". They're not interchangeable.

Thanks, it is a bit clearer(I can see a difference) but I still can't really see why they can not be interchangeable sometimes.

Like Random C, I find it difficult to explain what I mean. And I am not a farmer!

[bannork]

ไม่มีอะไรทั้งนั้น: There is nothing (happening, here) at all (can be replaced with ทั้งสิ้น)

ห้ามเอาอะไรไปทั้งนั้น: You are forbidden to take anything at all (same as above)

ทั้งนี้ทั้งนั้นทางเจ้าของบ้านก็ต้องรับผิดชอบเรื่องค่าเสียหาย: Even so the owner of the house must pay the damages.

พิซซ่าก็ดี แฮมเบอร์เกอร์ก็อร่อย ทั้งนี้ทั้งนั้น การเลือกก็ขึ้นอยู่กับความชอบส่วนตัว: Pizzas are good and hamburgers are tasty, even so the choice depends on personal preferences.

เอาไปให้หมดเลย: Take it all.

คุณมีสิทธิ์เป็นเจ้าของที่ดินทั้งหมดเลย: You have the chance to become the owner of all the land.

Basically, it's "at all" and "all".  They're not interchangeable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like R.C. I'm a farmer and ,yes it is difficult for us farmers, because in this phrase we can't translate ทั้งนั้น as 'at all' เเตะไปตรงไหนมีปัญหาทั้งนั้น, best translated I think as,'there are problems everywhere' or 'it's the same whereever you look, there are only problems', '

So perhaps we should look at ทั้งนั้น in 2 ways, the negative form could be '(not) at all' as Firefoxx says, whilst the affirmative could consist of various combinations, perhaps including 'whatever, whereever'.

Where is the guru, Sabaajai?

bannork.

[snowleopard]

whilst the affirmative could consist of various combinations, perhaps including 'whatever, whereever'

Hi Bannork,

I think the best English translation for ทั้งนั้น "tang nan" in the affirmative would be...

1.all that (for singulars)

2.all those (for plurals)

ทั้งนั้น "tang nan"should be placed after the thing/things it refers to.

Cheers,

Snowleopard

[Firefoxx]

Hmm, for the affirmative(sorry, didn't think about it)....

อยากไปทีื่ไหนก็ได้ทั้งนั้น: We can go anywhere at all

อะไรๆก็ดีทั้งนั้น: Everything is good

Even in this case ทั้งหมด would seem appropriate, but it would actually sound strange. You would be referring to the totality of things, rather than everything. But even that explanation sounds strange.

Although หมดเลย and ทั้งหมด may be inappropriate, check this:

อะไรๆก็ดีไปหมด: (practically)Everything is good

ไปตรงไหนก็มีปัญหาไปหมด: There are problems (practically)everywhere

So, if you want to use "หมด" instead of "ทั้งนั้น", use it as "ไปหมด" and not "หมดเลย". The meaning changes a bit, but not by much.

[sabaijai]

oops dual posting ...

Edited December 13, 2004 by sabaijai

[sabaijai]

Work pressures took Sabaijai away from the Internet for a few days. Between Firefoxx's seamless examples and the distinction between negative and affirmative usage, I think it has been well explained here.

I think what may confuse some people, perhaps the original questioner, is that the "at all" connotation of ทั้งนั้น in the phrase ไม่มีอะไรทั้งนั้น also applies to เลย used by itself ((when used in the negative, that is - same in both cases though). In fact you could just as easily translate "There is nothing at all" as ไม่มีอะไรเลย.

So the phrases ทั้งนั้น and เลย can mean the same thing, ie, 'completely' in affirmative contexts and 'at all' in negative contexts.

When you add หมด to เลย it intensifies the meaning (unless you intend the literal meaning of หมด, that is). Agree that ไปหมด is a more direct equivalent of ทั้งนั้น than หมดเลย. They all feel subtly different, even if the English translation makes them appear to be close or equivalent. ทั้งนั้น seems to have a little more confidence behind it, while ไปหมด and เลย seem to be more off the cuff, tossed out with less confidence.

[snowleopard]

whilst the affirmative could consist of various combinations, perhaps including 'whatever, whereever'

Hi Bannork,

I think the best English translation for ทั้งนั้น "tang nan" in the affirmative would be...

1.all that (for singulars)

2.all those (for plurals)

ทั้งนั้น "tang nan"should be placed after the thing/things it refers to.

Cheers,

Snowleopard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Depending on the context,ทั้งนั้น "tang nan" can be translated from Thai into English in different ways.

It's placed at the end of the sentence.

Here are some possible translations...

1.all that/all those

2.all of that/all of them

3.anything/everything

4.any of that/any of them

5.all the same

Here are a few examples of how ทั้งนั้น "tang nan" is used...

1.เมื่อวานพวกเขาไปเที่ยวกันทั้งนั้น "meu-a waan poo-ak kaow bpai tee-o gun tang nan"=Yesterday,they all went sightseeing together.

2.เราไม่ซื้ออะไรทั้งนั้น "raow mai seu arai tang nan";or,เราไม่ซื้อทั้งนั้น "raow mai seu tang nan"=We're not buying anything.

3.ถ้าฉันหิวฉันกินได้ทั้งนั้นแหละ "taa chan hio chan kin dai tang nan lae"=If I'm hungry enough,I could eat anything.

Let's look at ทั้งนี้ "tang nee".

It's placed in the front.The translations are words like "all this/all of these/so/as such"

1.ทั้งนี้เพราะเขาโง่ "tang nee pro kaow ngoh"=All this happened because she's silly.

ทั้งนี้ทั้งนั้น "tang nee tang nan" can be translated as "however/nevertheless/in any case"...etc.

Hope this helps?

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

Edited December 12, 2004 by snowleopard

[RamdomChances]

nice post snowy, helps a lot