Rental Deposits Going One Way In Thailand

[agord]

"One thing about Thai people is the loss of face issue. I think if you make it very clear

that you will stop at nothing to publicise and expose the unfairness of the situation

they will back down. In many cases they don't like the possibility of confrontation

particularly in a prestige condominium block.

Anybody know about the legal issues of mentioning their names or the name of their business? They own a nursery in Phuket. If people like this are going to be two faced and friendly to your face then steal your money I wonder how the people doing business with them would feel if they knew of this? How many of their customers are farang? I liked the post regarding some sort of data base we could go to and check before doing business with people here. Hiring a private investigator is one idea I had; they could fat least find out who their clients are. My wife hasn't mentioned anything to her family about this yet because as she says the people from Nakorn Si Thamarat have their own way of dealing with these things and it certainly isn't cordial. I prefer a more civilized approach, the tax board idea from WB - which I am sure they have not paid.

[Sophon]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

So what ? Bully for you ! Your post a meaningless because no one has suggested this kind of behavior happens

100 percent of the time. You're one of the lucky few. The OP requested feedback as

to how to respond to some of these unscrupulous people of which there are far more

than there should be.

I don't believe I am "one of the lucky few". If you search older posts you will find plenty of people who have never had a problem. But, of course, people who have been cheated out of their deposit is more likely to post their experiences. Not much point in starting a thread named "I got my deposit back".

My post was just meant to give a more balanced view, as all the earlier posts was from people who had trouble getting back their deposits. Reading the thread you would get the impression that no-one ever gets their deposit back in thailand, and that's not my experience - not for me personally nor for the people I know. Yes, some people get cheated out of their deposit, but plenty of people have no problems at all.

Sophon

[samtam]

I feel for you, having just experienced a similar scam from an agency in London, when I rented a flat for 1 week (GBP950) plus deposit of GBP950. They wont return the deposit. I've just begun proceedings through the Small Claims Court. I'm not hopeful that I'll get it back, but whether I do or not, I'm going to start a blog. He already has several written about him, as he has ripped off a number of (overseas) clients. One took out a URL is his (the agent's) name and it was that, (which exposed his fraudulence), that caused the landlord to repay, (in exchange for the URL). You could try that. You can read all about it on:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navc...q=Robin+Larkins

and there are a number of reference to his company here:

http://homesickwanderlust.blogspot.com/sea...Robin%20Larkins

http://www.allagents.co.uk/the-real-world-rental-company/

http://www.tripadvisor.in/ShowTopic-g18633...on_England.html

[agord]

I feel for you, having just experienced a similar scam from an agency in London, when I rented a flat for 1 week (GBP950) plus deposit of GBP950. They wont return the deposit. I've just begun proceedings through the Small Claims Court. I'm not hopeful that I'll get it back, but whether I do or not, I'm going to start a blog. He already has several written about him, as he has ripped off a number of (overseas) clients. One took out a URL is his (the agent's) name and it was that, (which exposed his fraudulence), that caused the landlord to repay, (in exchange for the URL). You could try that. You can read all about it on:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navc...q=Robin+Larkins

and there are a number of reference to his company here:

http://homesickwanderlust.blogspot.com/sea...Robin%20Larkins

http://www.allagents.co.uk/the-real-world-rental-company/

http://www.tripadvisor.in/ShowTopic-g18633...on_England.html

But does anyone know if this is legal in Thailand? Could one be sued over this type of thing?

[agord]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

So what ? Bully for you ! Your post a meaningless because no one has suggested this kind of behavior happens

100 percent of the time. You're one of the lucky few. The OP requested feedback as

to how to respond to some of these unscrupulous people of which there are far more

than there should be.

I don't believe I am "one of the lucky few". If you search older posts you will find plenty of people who have never had a problem. But, of course, people who have been cheated out of their deposit is more likely to post their experiences. Not much point in starting a thread named "I got my deposit back".

My post was just meant to give a more balanced view, as all the earlier posts was from people who had trouble getting back their deposits. Reading the thread you would get the impression that no-one ever gets their deposit back in thailand, and that's not my experience - not for me personally nor for the people I know. Yes, some people get cheated out of their deposit, but plenty of people have no problems at all.

Sophon

Sophon Im glad you and your mates have had such great luck. Of course they are not all bad but we are trying to figure out what to do with the ones that are out to take your deposit and what exactly are our rights. As the OP I wasn't trying to get a show of hands I was asking for advice from other that have been through this.

[agord]

Have your wife contact the Consumer Protection Board (sorry I don't know the number). It's part of their job to deal with things like this.

Just hope that they are able to work now (their office was located in the PAD occupied Government House).

I found this through Google re "Office of the Consumer Protection Board of Thailand":

http://www.consumersinternational.org/Temp...mp;strSubSite=1

http://www.ocpb.go.th/index_address.html this is all in Thai, so it does not help.

I doubt this office will be helpful. Based on my observation, in all situations involving conflict of interest between Thais and foreigners, Thais' attitude is: farangs have money, farang should pay. Hence, Thais are always on Thais side. Not to mention the ability of Thais to resolve any problem: they rather pretend the problem does not exist than deal with it.

This is all in Thai and people involved will speak only Thai, but it doesn't mean that it "does not help". The OP wife is Thai and can certainly deal with them.

I emailed them in English and my wife will contact them Monday. There should be a local agency to handle this but nothing has turned up so far.

[yeti]

Have your wife contact the Consumer Protection Board (sorry I don't know the number). It's part of their job to deal with things like this.

Just hope that they are able to work now (their office was located in the PAD occupied Government House).

I found this through Google re "Office of the Consumer Protection Board of Thailand":

http://www.consumersinternational.org/Temp...mp;strSubSite=1

http://www.ocpb.go.th/index_address.html this is all in Thai, so it does not help.

I doubt this office will be helpful. Based on my observation, in all situations involving conflict of interest between Thais and foreigners, Thais' attitude is: farangs have money, farang should pay. Hence, Thais are always on Thais side. Not to mention the ability of Thais to resolve any problem: they rather pretend the problem does not exist than deal with it.

This is all in Thai and people involved will speak only Thai, but it doesn't mean that it "does not help". The OP wife is Thai and can certainly deal with them.

I emailed them in English and my wife will contact them Monday. There should be a local agency to handle this but nothing has turned up so far.

With the princess funeral it may take a bit longer to get an answer.

[yeti]

By the way this link has more details: Office of the Consumer Protection Board.

[toptuan]

By the way this link has more details: Office of the Consumer Protection Board.

...and you'll give your phone number on this thread to provide the translation for 75% of the readers who can't read Thai? Useless link for most of us.

[yabaaaa]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

So what ? Bully for you ! Your post a meaningless because no one has suggested this kind of behavior happens

100 percent of the time. You're one of the lucky few. The OP requested feedback as

to how to respond to some of these unscrupulous people of which there are far more

than there should be.

http://sukanyacondo.com/sukanyablank/blank.htm it does happen people do get their deposits back you only here the bad stories!!

[agord]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

So what ? Bully for you ! Your post a meaningless because no one has suggested this kind of behavior happens

100 percent of the time. You're one of the lucky few. The OP requested feedback as

to how to respond to some of these unscrupulous people of which there are far more

than there should be.

http://sukanyacondo.com/sukanyablank/blank.htm it does happen people do get their deposits back you only here the bad stories!!

Once again - Sure, of course it happens that some people get their deposits back and I think everyone knows that BUT the purpose of this thread is WHAT IF YOU DON"T? What course of action should you take? The purpose IS NOT to find out did you or didn't you or I would of titled it Rental deposits going one way sometimes and sometimes you get them back share your stories Im not trying to start an all Thai are crooks thread because I certainly don't believe this but let's face the facts that it seems to happen quite often you don't get it back. From my experience three times already out of the five times I have rented. I think I started the OP saying this? It's a little irritating sometimes with some expats you can't complain about anything here because they are so enamored with LOS they are almost blind to it's downside.

[yabaaaa]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

So what ? Bully for you ! Your post a meaningless because no one has suggested this kind of behavior happens

100 percent of the time. You're one of the lucky few. The OP requested feedback as

to how to respond to some of these unscrupulous people of which there are far more

than there should be.

http://sukanyacondo.com/sukanyablank/blank.htm it does happen people do get their deposits back you only here the bad stories!!

Once again - Sure, of course it happens that some people get their deposits back and I think everyone knows that BUT the purpose of this thread is WHAT IF YOU DON"T? What course of action should you take? The purpose IS NOT to find out did you or didn't you or I would of titled it Rental deposits going one way sometimes and sometimes you get them back share your stories Im not trying to start an all Thai are crooks thread because I certainly don't believe this but let's face the facts that it seems to happen quite often you don't get it back. From my experience three times already out of the five times I have rented. I think I started the OP saying this? It's a little irritating sometimes with some expats you can't complain about anything here because they are so enamored with LOS they are almost blind to it's downside.

Hey just countering the othe replies to give a more BALANCED view, try consumer protection hotline 1654 there is also another number to do with condo refunds like this but cant remember it off the top of my head.

[Guest Bellini]

…Assuming you have a contract, my best advice is to threaten to show your rental agreement to the tax office. Landlords are supposed to pay 15% tax on rental income, and I really doubt this scumbag is doing it.

Bad advice. I believe the legal term for it is “extortion”.

[Guest Bellini]

Anybody know about the legal issues of mentioning their names or the name of their business?

I undersand that under Thai law you can be found guilty of libel or defamation even if you can prove that what you published is 100% true.

[agord]

Anybody know about the legal issues of mentioning their names or the name of their business?

I undersand that under Thai law you can be found guilty of libel or defamation even if you can prove that what you published is 100% true.

That sounds about right for here There is no point in threatening these people anyway better to just show the rental agreement to the tax board wether they pay or not as they deserve whatever they get. I'm finished with talking to them anyways, it's pointless. It's very difficult to argue with people who just smile at you anyways.

[agord]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

So what ? Bully for you ! Your post a meaningless because no one has suggested this kind of behavior happens

100 percent of the time. You're one of the lucky few. The OP requested feedback as

to how to respond to some of these unscrupulous people of which there are far more

than there should be.

http://sukanyacondo.com/sukanyablank/blank.htm it does happen people do get their deposits back you only here the bad stories!!

Once again - Sure, of course it happens that some people get their deposits back and I think everyone knows that BUT the purpose of this thread is WHAT IF YOU DON"T? What course of action should you take? The purpose IS NOT to find out did you or didn't you or I would of titled it Rental deposits going one way sometimes and sometimes you get them back share your stories Im not trying to start an all Thai are crooks thread because I certainly don't believe this but let's face the facts that it seems to happen quite often you don't get it back. From my experience three times already out of the five times I have rented. I think I started the OP saying this? It's a little irritating sometimes with some expats you can't complain about anything here because they are so enamored with LOS they are almost blind to it's downside.

Hey just countering the othe replies to give a more BALANCED view, try consumer protection hotline 1654 there is also another number to do with condo refunds like this but cant remember it off the top of my head.

Sure understood. I'm a bit testy having wasted something like 60,000 baht in deposits over the past three years. I'm in a service apartment now which is great and company owned. I'm done with renting from a private owner.

[agord]

Anybody know about the legal issues of mentioning their names or the name of their business?

I undersand that under Thai law you can be found guilty of libel or defamation even if you can prove that what you published is 100% true.

Can anyone confirm this? I wasn't sure and that's why I have posted on here their names or the name of the agents business which is quite popular in Phuket. The agent btw still refuses to acknowledge any wrong doing on the landlords part even in the areas of withholding the deposit on the grounds that I'm somehow responsible to fix their air con and leaking water heater?? I believe this is when the agent should step up, point it out in the contract and correct them but not so much as a peep out of her!

[yabaaaa]

I have placed two deposits on apartments in Bangkok, and both times got the deposits back in full. And to be quite honest, in both cases the landlords would have been justified in withholding some of the deposit for repairs (beyond normal wear and tear).

In both cases the landlords were Thai.

Sophon

So what ? Bully for you ! Your post a meaningless because no one has suggested this kind of behavior happens

100 percent of the time. You're one of the lucky few. The OP requested feedback as

to how to respond to some of these unscrupulous people of which there are far more

than there should be.

http://sukanyacondo.com/sukanyablank/blank.htm it does happen people do get their deposits back you only here the bad stories!!

Once again - Sure, of course it happens that some people get their deposits back and I think everyone knows that BUT the purpose of this thread is WHAT IF YOU DON"T? What course of action should you take? The purpose IS NOT to find out did you or didn't you or I would of titled it Rental deposits going one way sometimes and sometimes you get them back share your stories Im not trying to start an all Thai are crooks thread because I certainly don't believe this but let's face the facts that it seems to happen quite often you don't get it back. From my experience three times already out of the five times I have rented. I think I started the OP saying this? It's a little irritating sometimes with some expats you can't complain about anything here because they are so enamored with LOS they are almost blind to it's downside.

Hey just countering the othe replies to give a more BALANCED view, try consumer protection hotline 1654 there is also another number to do with condo refunds like this but cant remember it off the top of my head.

Sure understood. I'm a bit testy having wasted something like 60,000 baht in deposits over the past three years. I'm in a service apartment now which is great and company owned. I'm done with renting from a private owner.

I wouldnt be too sure my wife met the owner of a certain serviced appartments and he really couldnt have cared less about his customers. Again see my link to see they are not all bad.

[Shotime]

…Assuming you have a contract, my best advice is to threaten to show your rental agreement to the tax office. Landlords are supposed to pay 15% tax on rental income, and I really doubt this scumbag is doing it.

Bad advice. I believe the legal term for it is “extortion”.

I'm not a lawyer, but I wouldn't worry about your landlord pressing extortion charges against you. It's your money you're asking for. I'm not sure the advice is valid. Would the landlord be scared of you doing something like that? Can you walk into a tax office and report something like that? It might be worth a try, the threatening part, but you best look into it a little more.

[yabaaaa]

Anybody know about the legal issues of mentioning their names or the name of their business?

I undersand that under Thai law you can be found guilty of libel or defamation even if you can prove that what you published is 100% true.

Can anyone confirm this? I wasn't sure and that's why I have posted on here their names or the name of the agents business which is quite popular in Phuket. The agent btw still refuses to acknowledge any wrong doing on the landlords part even in the areas of withholding the deposit on the grounds that I'm somehow responsible to fix their air con and leaking water heater?? I believe this is when the agent should step up, point it out in the contract and correct them but not so much as a peep out of her!

Probably in cahoots with the owner and remember they couldnt care less and have already demonstrated this to you. BTW you cant post their names I did with a certain complex here and was "warned" all hearsay post removed ...... stiill listed in Google though !!

[yabaaaa]

…Assuming you have a contract, my best advice is to threaten to show your rental agreement to the tax office. Landlords are supposed to pay 15% tax on rental income, and I really doubt this scumbag is doing it.

Bad advice. I believe the legal term for it is "extortion".

I'm not a lawyer, but I wouldn't worry about your landlord pressing extortion charges against you. It's your money you're asking for. I'm not sure the advice is valid. Would the landlord be scared of you doing something like that? Can you walk into a tax office and report something like that? It might be worth a try, the threatening part, but you best look into it a little more.

Ive read here many times its best not to threaten but just to DO IT then sit back and see what transpires?

[agord]

[i wouldnt be too sure my wife met the owner of a certain serviced appartments and he really couldnt have cared less about his customers. Again see my link to see they are not all bad.

Chai but rented from this place before and got everything back so best to stay with what I know. No harm in mentioning the good ones like Karon Studio Apartments in Phuket or PR Place in BKK they were both good places and full returns on deposit for those reading this thread and worried about renting now.

[agord]

…Assuming you have a contract, my best advice is to threaten to show your rental agreement to the tax office. Landlords are supposed to pay 15% tax on rental income, and I really doubt this scumbag is doing it.

Bad advice. I believe the legal term for it is "extortion".

I'm not a lawyer, but I wouldn't worry about your landlord pressing extortion charges against you. It's your money you're asking for. I'm not sure the advice is valid. Would the landlord be scared of you doing something like that? Can you walk into a tax office and report something like that? It might be worth a try, the threatening part, but you best look into it a little more.

Excellent point Shotime it is MY money afterall it's too bad they don't see it that way. Well 15% of 17,000 each month x 12 is almost the amount of my deposit so even though I won't get it back they still pay someone and hopefully lesson learned...kind of they still save 4,400 by not paying me unless there is some sort of penalty?? either way it's on!

[midas]

Anybody know about the legal issues of mentioning their names or the name of their business?

I undersand that under Thai law you can be found guilty of libel or defamation even if you can prove that what you published is 100% true.

that doesnt surprise me - only in LOS

[Guest Bellini]

I undersand that under Thai law you can be found guilty of libel or defamation even if you can prove that what you published is 100% true.

Can anyone confirm this? …

I got that impression from reading the following posts in a topic on ThaiVisa some time ago:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Urgent-Labor...t&p=2131645

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Urgent-Labor...t&p=2134238

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Urgent-Labor...t&p=2134334

Doing some further research today I found the attached article published in the Bangkok Post in December 2005, from which I quote:

Civil Defamation. Section 423 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code defines civil defamation as a statement made contrary to the truth, which is asserted or circulated as a fact, with resulting injury to the reputation, credit, earnings or prosperity of an individual.

Therefore, under Thai civil law you can be found guilty of defamation only if you are unable to prove the veracity of your statement. It also means that if you posted your statement on ThaiVisa and it were not removed, the owner of the website could be sued and would have the burden of proof of the veracity of your statement. I was unable to find the second article in that series, dealing with defamation under Thai criminal law.

Defamation___civil_law.pdf

[yeti]

By the way this link has more details: Office of the Consumer Protection Board.

...and you'll give your phone number on this thread to provide the translation for 75% of the readers who can't read Thai? Useless link for most of us.

The OP stated he has a Thai wife, so not useless for him.

[thaihome]

I certainly don’t disagree there is a real problem with getting the deposit back. One thing about Asian small business people in general is they hate to give money back and will come up with many excuses as to why they don’t have to.

What I do object to is the posters that again take this as an opportunity to express their farang paranoia. If the landlord do it to farangs, they will do it to Thais as well

TH

[agord]

I certainly don't disagree there is a real problem with getting the deposit back. One thing about Asian small business people in general is they hate to give money back and will come up with many excuses as to why they don't have to.

What I do object to is the posters that again take this as an opportunity to express their farang paranoia. If the landlord do it to farangs, they will do it to Thais as well

TH

Sure they will my wife is Thai and the landlords wife is from the same province as her. They got along great during our stay and did the walk through together on the last day and everything was ok she said that she just needed to check with her husband to get our money then all of the sudden there was a laundry list of things wrong. Anyone who has ever had their house cleaned here knows that you could have this service done for maybe 1,000 tops if it is a large house right? They claim that they spent 5,000 for cleaning our 2 bedroom, single story house. This being just a couple of days after we had our own people clean it and because they were staff from my wifes hotel we gave them a little more I think it was 1,500 for four people all day cleaning and helping us pack up? 5,000 baht is unheard of what did they do to a house that was already cleeaned? Just the kind of typical BS they are coming up with so they don't have to pay

[thaihome]

Yep. So whatcha goin' do? Get on with your life or let this continue to eat at you?

TH

[think_too_mut]

After 2 years in our last rental place, as recent as September 26th this year, we got our deposit (40K baht) back, in full, cash, the landlord did not even inspected the unit.

All she wanted was - the building cleaners (paid by us 1500B to clean it and wax the parquet 2 times) to say "OK".

She trusted the rceipts that we had paid all the bills.

Our previous place returned our deposit 1 month later, kept 500B for a cracked mirror, the money was paid into wife's bank account (choice was given : cash, check or wire).

My wife says, Thais would not pay last month rent and see what gets cut from the remaining month of the deposit.

Edited November 17, 2008 by think_too_mut